What is the key to utilising a Chinese rubber well
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Topic: What is the key to utilising a Chinese rubber well
Posted By: SmackDAT
Subject: What is the key to utilising a Chinese rubber well
Date Posted: 06/08/2017 at 10:04pm
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Is it the acceleration or the actual size of your stroke? I have plenty of acceleration but I've been told not to have such a large stroke due to recovery time/acceleration being way more effective. My topspin (I think) is brush based, and I'm thinking of trying H3 Neo in 41 deg/2.2 with 2 layers booster? Would that be smart from a T05 user's perspective? I'm a backhand oriented player so my forehand isn't the strongest at my playing level :( My forehand from a few months back looks like this (from 0:46 to 1:09) - what adjustments would I need to make to switch from T05 to H3 Neo (apart from hardness) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ioWbX5nNkk&t=489s" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ioWbX5nNkk&t=489s ------------- Zhang Jike ALC AN (88g) Tenergy 05 Hard (2.1, B) Tenergy 19 (2.1, R) https://goo.gl/bFWoxW" rel="nofollow - https://goo.gl/bFWoxW |
Replies:
Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 06/08/2017 at 10:41pm
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Acceleration is key. In China, we talk about 透板/打透, or through the racket, when making a quality, strong fast loop. To do that, you need 爆發力, or explosive force, and for that you need a substantial amount of acceleration to get the racket up to speed. Size of the stroke - as large as necessary but also as small as possible. The key here is to "liberate" the elbow. Let the elbow take part in adding speed to the stroke. It doesn't have to be straight like a pole, but it should never be bent like a chicken wing. BTW, pay attention to having the trunk initiate and lead the arm throughout the stroke, from the backswing to follow-through. The arm should work like a pendulum moving on inertia alone. ------------- Viscaria FL - 91g + Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
Posted By: ThePongProfessor
Date Posted: 06/08/2017 at 11:00pm
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Blue player would have no difficulties in using H3 Neo. Red player would have a harder time switching. Rather than boosting, consider using a (significantly) faster blade (e.g., from OFF- to OFF or even OFF+). ------------- YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/ThePongProfessor http://mytabletennis.net/forum/feedback-thepongprofessor_topic69419.html" rel="nofollow - Feedback |
Posted By: SmackDAT
Date Posted: 06/08/2017 at 11:11pm
Hi Patrick, I am the blue player, why is it harder for my friend to switch compared to myself? I am using HL5, but I'm used to T05 on an koto/ALC blade, but I might try H3 Neo as it is! Thank you ------------- Zhang Jike ALC AN (88g) Tenergy 05 Hard (2.1, B) Tenergy 19 (2.1, R) https://goo.gl/bFWoxW" rel="nofollow - https://goo.gl/bFWoxW |
patrickhrdlicka wrote:Posted By: yogi_bear
Date Posted: 06/08/2017 at 11:11pm
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try improving your ball contact and brushing the ball ------------- Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach |
Posted By: onehander
Date Posted: 06/08/2017 at 11:52pm
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Switch to H3neo and play. You will figure out how to use it. Book smart can only get you so far, like trying to learn to swim by reading an instruction manual. But there's no real need to switch. T05 with koto/alc is classic.
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Posted By: BrunodeDanann
Date Posted: 06/09/2017 at 9:59am
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ALWAYS brush the ball ------------- Harimoto ALC HUrricane 3 Vega asia |
Posted By: SmackDAT
Date Posted: 06/10/2017 at 3:57pm
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Thanks guys I've just ordered a 41 deg 2.2 H3 Neo, should be fun, will have to boost cause the 41 degree hardness would be unplayable without apparently! ------------- Zhang Jike ALC AN (88g) Tenergy 05 Hard (2.1, B) Tenergy 19 (2.1, R) https://goo.gl/bFWoxW" rel="nofollow - https://goo.gl/bFWoxW |
Posted By: gekogark1212
Date Posted: 06/10/2017 at 5:25pm
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Was gonna say: BOOSTER ------------- (\__/) (='.'=) But there's no sense crying over every mistake, (")_(") You just keep on trying till you run out of cake. |
Posted By: Chairman Meow
Date Posted: 06/10/2017 at 6:02pm
I play with unboosted H3 41 degrees (non-neo), and it is fine. You don't need to boost. ------------- -1 ply Cypress 11.5mm "The Castigator" -H3 Prov. Blue Sponge 2.2mm 41 deg. -H3 Prov. Orange Sponge 2.1mm 37 deg |
Posted By: Hozuki
Date Posted: 06/10/2017 at 6:08pm
| when usure, the best strategy is to get max hardness and then soften it to taste |
Posted By: jpenmaster
Date Posted: 06/10/2017 at 8:49pm
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I play with 41 degree. It will be very different from Tenergy. It is much slower and has a totally different trajectory. It blocks and pushes a million times better. You can put a lot more into your shot and have it stay on the table. I found my hand grip is critical with H3 to maximize it's potential for me personally the looser I can keep my hand but still have good finger pressure the faster and spinnier it plays. I would not boost till you have played with it. H3 is going to play different after a few hours of playing than right out of the package. It does have a break in period. Last keep it clean and covered. Good Luck! ------------- OSP Expert II w DNA Dragon Grip |
Posted By: SmackDAT
Date Posted: 06/10/2017 at 9:49pm
I play with T05 and 1 layer of Falco and really enjoy this hardness so I'd probably need to boost quite a bit! Will probably try it naked to start though, but it would suck for me at the start
------------- Zhang Jike ALC AN (88g) Tenergy 05 Hard (2.1, B) Tenergy 19 (2.1, R) https://goo.gl/bFWoxW" rel="nofollow - https://goo.gl/bFWoxW |
Posted By: SmackDAT
Date Posted: 06/10/2017 at 9:50pm
Thanks!! Is the trajectory lower than tenergy? I find even with low throw rubbers (Rakza 9 I used I think) lifting backspin is easy, but countering with 05 against high level players is difficult! If it's low throw that would be amazeballs!
------------- Zhang Jike ALC AN (88g) Tenergy 05 Hard (2.1, B) Tenergy 19 (2.1, R) https://goo.gl/bFWoxW" rel="nofollow - https://goo.gl/bFWoxW |
Posted By: kurokami
Date Posted: 06/10/2017 at 11:09pm
no. red player would have an easier time. your (blue) technique would work better with jp/euro rubber. more of your output comes from the rubber currently. if you want to switch to h3, you will need to smack dat more. ;) case in point: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOB0Ykciw5I" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOB0Ykciw5I seriously, not size of stroke nor difference in acceleration. T05 actually requires more acceleration to get a good grip. it's more a difference in how you contact it. i use h3n provincial and T05 interchangeably.
------------- Viscaria H3N/T05 http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=65345&KW=&title=feedback-kurokami |
Posted By: Hozuki
Date Posted: 06/10/2017 at 11:23pm
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I am still puzzled that people always go to H3 when switching to chinese rubbers; assuming they do so inspired by the success of Ma Long & Co. Top chinese players are not using H3 - their rubbers are very low throw, while any H3 version you can buy is high throw. Even the official product description of H3 reads ""Hurricane III" was designed for the players who mainly adopt control method or have relatively weak attack power when playing 40mm ball." Doesn't that sound a bit suspicious, Ma Long weak attack power? Anyways, IMO H3 is just the watered down, easy to play version of H2, which is faster and has true low arc, making it the closest to an actual pro chinese rubber you can get. It also makes it impossible for average players to counterattack your loop. H2 is easily the superior rubber - provided you can use it. I don't want to dishearten you, try H3 and if you like the characteristic, you can still upgrade. |
Posted By: t64t64t64
Date Posted: 06/11/2017 at 12:21pm
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everybody here is ma-long or at least Timo boll :D ------------- http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=61764&PID=734709 |
Posted By: SmackDAT
Date Posted: 06/11/2017 at 3:38pm
Very true, why don't the chinese public/provincial players prefer TG3/H2 Neo over H3 Neo then? I know the CNT have custom low throw sponges but it's weird how it isn't more popular among the Chinese (as well as American/British public, but ofc it takes a lot of skill to use low throw tacky rubber, despite this I think most Chinese amateur/semi-pro players can though?)
------------- Zhang Jike ALC AN (88g) Tenergy 05 Hard (2.1, B) Tenergy 19 (2.1, R) https://goo.gl/bFWoxW" rel="nofollow - https://goo.gl/bFWoxW |
Posted By: jpenmaster
Date Posted: 06/11/2017 at 3:58pm
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H2 makes no sense for the way Ma Long or any if the new players play. You need the higher throw for more margin of error at distance. H3 is a far superior looping rubber. H2 is great at the table but I did not like it anywhere else. Compare the way Wang Liqin played vs Ma Long. ------------- OSP Expert II w DNA Dragon Grip |
Posted By: SmackDAT
Date Posted: 06/11/2017 at 5:24pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkdAxfA_3wE" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkdAxfA_3wE 3:08 onwards, ML uses super low throw rubber. I do agree with you though, the new gen are leaning more towards H3 vs TG3/H2 ------------- Zhang Jike ALC AN (88g) Tenergy 05 Hard (2.1, B) Tenergy 19 (2.1, R) https://goo.gl/bFWoxW" rel="nofollow - https://goo.gl/bFWoxW |
Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 06/11/2017 at 6:05pm
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An enthusiast from Taiwan has measured and compared the pips of H3 Neo topsheets and his findings showed that H3 Neo is closer to H2 then it is to H3. ------------- Viscaria FL - 91g + Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
Posted By: Roger Stillabower
Date Posted: 06/11/2017 at 7:06pm
I thought H3 and H3 Neo was the same top sheet and sponge with the only difference that the Neo has a glue layer on the sponge, and if there was a difference in the pip structure would'nt they have to use a different ITTF number on the top sheet ? ------------- Shifter |
Posted By: jpenmaster
Date Posted: 06/11/2017 at 7:28pm
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If the rubber sheet changes it must get re-approved and get a new number if not it is illegal. ITTF even makes you send in a red sheet and black sheet for approval. You also have to pay for each color to be tested. When i last looked at getting a rubber made it was around $3000 usd to get a new rubber stamped. You do get a discount after your first rubber . ------------- OSP Expert II w DNA Dragon Grip |
Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 06/11/2017 at 7:42pm
It is way different. The topsheet base of H3 is much thicker and tougher. H3 was released in 2001, way before the serial number was implemented, in 2008/9? The H3 now comes with the topsheet of H3 Neo, but without that layer of glue. ------------- Viscaria FL - 91g + Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
Posted By: jpenmaster
Date Posted: 06/11/2017 at 8:10pm
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There are 2 approved H3 topsheets(excluding nittaku). The old original and the new stamped one. As far as I know all the current H3 are 24-108 including provincial and national. ------------- OSP Expert II w DNA Dragon Grip |
Posted By: Hozuki
Date Posted: 06/11/2017 at 8:22pm
Sorry, but I think you are not making any sense here. I was in Düsseldorf and I can safely confirm that all Chinese pro players, including the ones from HK were using extremely low throw setups. Although they use upward motion when hitting, the ball leaves the blade straight and goes only a few inches over the net. Very different from something like T05 of Timo Boll, for example. Just watch Ma Long vs Timo Boll for a display of the extreme difference in throw. Chinese players always use the tackiness for brushing from close and flex of the blade from far from the table to create their own throw angles. Compare WL and ML? Both are using more of a loop driving style, in contrast to ZJK's looping style. This has been confirmed by LGL. That's why ML was using TG3 in the past, it's better for loopdriving. There is not much difference in their FH style. WL just could afford to have a little lower throw because he had more power than ML. Since the topsheet only has to get approved, not the sponge, even if ML uses H3 topsheet, the sponge is completely different and makes the throw much lower. Sure, H3 gives you more safety, but the lower throw of H2, or TG3, H8, will make it much harder for you opponent to play any kind of active stroke against your loops and your countertops won't overshoot the table. |
Posted By: jpenmaster
Date Posted: 06/11/2017 at 8:37pm
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Since all H3 have the same top sheet the sponge can change the throw . The harder the sponge the lower the throw usually just like a blade. From what I understood is Ma Long uses at least 41.5 degree sponge which is harder than what he use to use a few years ago. H3 has always been a lower throw than Tenergy its not even close. T05 has a ridiculous arc. I personally play with 41 degree H3 on my FH and 37 on my BH and there is a slight throw difference but not to make it play like H2 ------------- OSP Expert II w DNA Dragon Grip |
Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 06/11/2017 at 8:47pm
This. I don't agree that harder sponge means lower throw. It does at low looping speeds. Also, the speed of the stroke affects the throw. The funny thing is that harder sponge actually makes the throw higher all things being equal, but at the speed that the CNT are looping, the arcs don't look that high. The idea that Ma Long uses a low throw rubber is just silly. Throw is not only about the rubber, it is also about the stroke. A faster stroke gets a higher throw with a harder sponge. That's why Hozuki's original comment had me scratching my head. H3 is a fine rubber for aggressive looping. You just have to decide whether you want to out in the effort as just about any European rubber is easier to spin with The real advantages of H3 are the top end power and the short game control and deception. ------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
Posted By: jpenmaster
Date Posted: 06/11/2017 at 9:05pm
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I switched from T05 to H3 recently cause of the control and its a lot more linear . H3 does have a lower throw than T05 but so does everything except maybe baracuda. I do not consider H3 low throw but maybe cause when I started playing it was with the 38mm ball and speed glue? H2 was one of my first chinese rubbers in the late 90's or early 2000's (don't remember) and it had a really low throw great for driving and looping at the table not what I see from today's game with the poly ball ------------- OSP Expert II w DNA Dragon Grip |
Posted By: SmackDAT
Date Posted: 06/11/2017 at 9:20pm
I think ML does use a very low throw rubber, have you seen how vertical his stroke is in comparison with European players? His stroke is also fast, which you said means higher throw ------------- Zhang Jike ALC AN (88g) Tenergy 05 Hard (2.1, B) Tenergy 19 (2.1, R) https://goo.gl/bFWoxW" rel="nofollow - https://goo.gl/bFWoxW |
Posted By: Hozuki
Date Posted: 06/11/2017 at 9:41pm
That's a contradiction. If a faster stroke gets higher throw with harder sponge, and ML uses hard sponge, then how do you explain that ML's fast and vertical strokes make the ball leave the racket in a straight line when looping, hm? The only way that can happen is if the rubber is very low throw. I'm sorry, but arguing that the idea of ML using low throw is silly in such a way, makes me question your basic reasoning skills. Also, I never said that H3 is not a good rubber. It does have the advantages you mentioned. However, H2 has the same advantages, just more pronounced, making it the superior rubber. |
Posted By: Chairman Meow
Date Posted: 06/11/2017 at 10:18pm
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These are my pretty basic understandings of the mechanics of a rubber. I am not a physicist (or a scientist at all), but this is how I think the rubber works. I am probably wrong, so feel free to correct me as long as you know that what you are saying is actually correct. Sorry for the wall of text, I should have spaced that out. ------------- -1 ply Cypress 11.5mm "The Castigator" -H3 Prov. Blue Sponge 2.2mm 41 deg. -H3 Prov. Orange Sponge 2.1mm 37 deg |
Posted By: kurokami
Date Posted: 06/11/2017 at 11:01pm
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Next Level is right. it's a lot about the stroke and how you hit the rubber. I can hit both high arc and very linear, low shots with the same racket depending on what i want to do. @OP CNT does not have "custom low throw" versions of the same rubber. I've used wang liqin's neo national h3. the only thing they do is tune the sponge. it's the same topsheet. they did use tg3 neo for awhile. in general ppl don't use it bc the quality is known to be lower than hurricane. ------------- Viscaria H3N/T05 http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=65345&KW=&title=feedback-kurokami |
Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 06/11/2017 at 11:17pm
He is brushing the ball so hard that the way you think of throw is insignificant compared to how hard he is hitting the ball. If you did that stroke with Tenergy 05, in Timo Boll's words, that ball would go into the net. You still think that is low throw? ------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
Posted By: slevin
Date Posted: 06/11/2017 at 11:18pm
------------- Trade feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50787" rel="nofollow - http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50787 |
Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 06/11/2017 at 11:29pm
Because those strokes would go into the net if the rubber had a lower throw or a softer sponge/topsheet and the speed of the stroke is so fast that he is getting a great arc relative to the speed of the stroke. THat's the true benefit of very hard sponge Chinese rubber when looping (or even European rubber), you have to create the spin yourself but once you do, your limit is much higher. because you can swing much harder PEople who think Ma Longs stroke is vertical just don't get it, it is doing one thing at contact and a completely different thing at follow through and the height at which he swings is so low and with a different swing plane from most human beings. Look at FZD in this video. Is this the kind of vertical stroke you are talking about? To me, this stroke is extremely horizontal, but I have heard many people call it vertical and they leave me puzzled. ------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
Posted By: tom
Date Posted: 06/11/2017 at 11:54pm
| NL, not pertaining to this discussion but didn't you tell me ML's stroke is 60 degrees and I should get a protractor? |
Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 06/12/2017 at 12:17am
That sounds a lot like my brand of sarcasm. I remember telling you a lot of other things as well, but I would do both of us a disservice if I told the details as I remembered them. ------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
Posted By: Hozuki
Date Posted: 06/12/2017 at 1:14am
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Chairman Meow is on point. The extreme hardness of CNT's H3 make the throw very low, unless the ball comes in at higher speed, then the sponge compresses more and throws it out higher. slevin, that's exactly why in your video ML closes his racket angle when doing countertops (and against topspin you have to close the racket face anyways) For most shots, their rubbers are low throw. NextLevel, I have several issues with what you wrote. First of all, where did Timo Boll say that a H3 brushing stroke would go into the net with T05? It's rather the opposite, the average T05 player would not clear the net with H3. I'm pretty sure this is exactly what TB himself has posted in a german forum. I'd be happy to search for an exact link if you doubt me. Secondly, "Because those strokes would go into the net if the rubber had a lower throw or a softer sponge/topsheet and the speed of the stroke is so fast that he is getting a great arc relative to the speed of the stroke." is not an argument that the rubber is not low throw. You merely make a relative statement, which does not prove anything about the actual throw of the rubber. Also you claim that ML's stroke is not so vertical. That is partly true, especially against block. However, ML or FZD (in your video) can afford to hit rather forward horizontally, because they hit it very fast and with a lot of spin. So that's also not an argument against CNT's rubbers being low throw. |
Posted By: vvk1
Date Posted: 06/12/2017 at 2:25am
+1. Also what you hear is the sound of heavy rubber/sponge engagement, not just "brushing".
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Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 06/12/2017 at 6:16am
Since I agree with Chairman Meow and you disagree with me, then this has become semantic. Any professional player can produce a low throw ball with any rubber, if you don't have the technique, you don't have the technique. ------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
Posted By: Hozuki
Date Posted: 06/12/2017 at 9:37am
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First you call it silly, then suddenly you agree to CNT's H3s to be low throw for most shots and then calling this contradiction a semantic issue? I'm afraid I cannot follow you there. I agree that you can produce similar arcs with different throw rubbers with a change in technique. The bounce on the table will still be drastically different, though. High throw bounces upward, low throw kicks away low. |
Posted By: jpenmaster
Date Posted: 06/12/2017 at 9:40am
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Well this got out of hand lol. We all know Ma Long and many other CNT players use H3 with a hard blue sponge . It makes zero sense to say its H2 or some other rubber cause if Ma Long wanted H2 he would use H2 . Why would DHS make an H2(or other type) top sheet and stamp it H3? It makes zero sense plus it would be illegal. He would just use H2 national like Liqin did. Every time there has to be some weird conspiracy theory about CNT player equipment. ------------- OSP Expert II w DNA Dragon Grip |
Posted By: Hozuki
Date Posted: 06/12/2017 at 10:19am
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Sadly we cannot look behind the scenes, so I can't claim anything about that. Maybe they found that their sponges work better with H3 topsheet. Since you can't buy those, the closest thing you can get trajectory wise is H2, IMO. What I will claim though, is that H2 is much more effective while not being as safe. |
Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 06/12/2017 at 10:29am
High throw does not bounce upward - topspin kicks forward as well as upwards and any high spin rubber kicks forward after the bounce. It is the stroke path and ball height predominantly that makes the ball kick upward, not the rubber. The problem here, IMO, is that you don't seem to realize that Tenergy 05 flattens out at high swing speeds while hard sponged H3 does not.
------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
Posted By: BeaverMD
Date Posted: 06/12/2017 at 11:07am
I don't think either player should switch to H3N. The T05 spin and arc look nice. Besides, why start tuning now when you are doing well completely clean.
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Posted By: Hozuki
Date Posted: 06/12/2017 at 11:45am
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Well I think we have to agree to disagree, NextLevel. My experiences seem to be vastly different from yours. |
Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 06/12/2017 at 12:13pm
If/when you post video of your strokes we can resolve the differences. I find that whenever I get into extended firms of these debates and I see the strokes if who I am discussing with, I tend to understand why the discussion takes forever. I tend to have a relatively thick impact on my loops so the kind of throw that you are focused on is almost non-existent in my general looping practice. ------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
Posted By: icontek
Date Posted: 06/14/2017 at 1:58am
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anyone who's spent time with H3 knows that you can adjust the shape of the arc by how closed or how open the face of the blade is during the loop. for drive loops (ahhhh convex) the arc might start higher and have a more rapid drop near the end of it's flight... for spin loops (ahhhh concave) the arc might be more even, and longer, with the peak of the height clearing net level... imho, this ability to create different shaped attacks is what makes H3 and other classic rubbers interesting. it's why i might stray for a while, but I always seem to come back to DHS. ------------- http://bit.ly/vLMhuB" rel="nofollow - - RC1042 . OSP Virtuoso AC: PK50 + R42 |
Posted By: mon22
Date Posted: 06/14/2017 at 7:41am
+1 Changing tension on grip allows you to spin or speed things up as well (courtesy of emratthicke videos, I recently discovered this and it changed my game completely) ------------- I am a total Newb. Come at me! |
Posted By: man_iii
Date Posted: 06/19/2017 at 12:46am
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The faster the swing, the less contact time is there on the ball ? The thicker the contact, the more sponge+blade is engaged? The more vertical the stroke, the far more amount of sponge backing the rubber is in effect when contacting the ball ? So a tacky+high-speed+vertical stroke+thinner contact ==> max topsheet +max sponge engagement ===>highest-arc return possible with the rubber ? I would guess that max arc possible at the maximum rubber+sponge effect combined with the kind of fast vertical thin stroke means that CNT players DO NOT engage the blade ( i.e. dont bottom out the sponge at the fastest stroke ) when looping. This must be the "safety" stroke that will work against EVERY type of return ball that is long. Also, if the ball hardly clears the net while engaging the full rubber effect without involving the blade, at such a fine contact and fast stroke, isn't that indicative that the rubber is low-throw ? The arc being generated by the player contact angle stroke length speed etc ? Rubber can't really lift the ball all by itself, but with the right powerful player and correct stroke the ball "magically" seems to clear the net loaded with spin and decent speed ? Someone with more insight into the mechanics pls explain! Thanks! I am just a beginner TT player so please don't attack me :-)
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Posted By: jackwong23
Date Posted: 06/19/2017 at 2:32am
| My suggestion is don't use Chinese rubbers, too difficult to control. You also have to boost it to get the best out of it. |
Posted By: man_iii
Date Posted: 06/19/2017 at 4:58am
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Well I use chinese-type rubbers because it works for me. Mostly 729- rubbers. Euro rubbers are too fast and uncontrollable for me. I should think each person's play style and preference will allow different rubbers to work very well for each player. Also not all rubbers need to be boosted either due to the rubber being already good or due to factory pre-tuning / boosting before packaging. Understanding the mechanics and learning to use to the best ability possible by the player and the rubber is important. Coaches might have differing opinions and so would a lot of players. Point won doesn't matter how u got the point. But I am not yet at a level where winning points is the sole objective or the primary objective. :-D
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Posted By: blahness
Date Posted: 06/19/2017 at 7:21am
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Well with tacky hard rubbers you need to hit the ball hard and hit the gym lol.... From my experience you need a much more open blade angle than tensors, most of your failed shots will hit the net rather than out, and is usually because you were not in position and didn't use your body or legs correctly. It forces good technique out of you as you're punished pretty badly if you have bad strokes. Good side is that it gives you a lot more control when attacking because of the linear response, you have very little fear of hitting too hard which is really comforting for someone who hits hard. The hard spinny shots you create with tacky rubbers can be killer...in my case very few players can block those shots, even those a few levels higher. But if you're caught out of position or if you're reaching the point is mostly over because it's so hard to generate pace in those situations...You also get amazing spin and control on your serves and short game which gives you a lot of advantages. If you're young and want to get a better workout, or want to play more physically with a focus on serves, short game and attack then switch to hard, slow tacky rubbers. You can always switch back if you hate the rubber... ------------- ------- Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
Posted By: SmackDAT
Date Posted: 06/19/2017 at 3:28pm
Someone cowered away from discussion lol ------------- Zhang Jike ALC AN (88g) Tenergy 05 Hard (2.1, B) Tenergy 19 (2.1, R) https://goo.gl/bFWoxW" rel="nofollow - https://goo.gl/bFWoxW |
Posted By: Hozuki
Date Posted: 06/19/2017 at 7:11pm
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You are misunderstanding. I merely don't want to commit the folly of investing time I don't have in proving the obvious. Also, the debate was about CNT's H3s being low throw and not me and my H2, so recording myself has little to no explanatory value in the first place. But obviously you were aware of that and just trolling around, since surely nobody could be this dense. |
Posted By: comodoensis
Date Posted: 07/14/2017 at 1:29pm
+2 The magic of h3 is when one gets to used to engage the sponge/make the momentum(impact). Once the user gets to used to engaging sponge in every offensive stroke, all that is need to be done is adjust the blade angle, and the brushing/driving portion. i.e. : against backspin/dead ball, more brushing is needed. Make the impact (or most people called it 'weight transfer'), once the sponge is engaged, brush it forward. If you have adequate or more power and acceleration to negate the rotation of the ball (or to create more rotation if dealing with dead ball) , the higher contact point you can make toward the ball, which means more closed blade angle, and resulting in a less parabolic, yet longer ball trajectory. Less engaging, merely brushing, will ends up with higher parabolic curve, and a tad shorter ball trajectory, especially when the followthrough is perpendicular to blade angle. Against topspin/block, simply change the contact point to the highest contact point of the ball depending on ball height, and give the same 'impact' to the ball, and the same, followthrough perpendicular with blade angle. Different ball height means different contact point of the ball, also affecting the followthrough a bit on this case. Most people gets the ball into the net or flying out of the table because of the followthrough that is not perpendicular enough with the blade angle. Sounds complicated, but once one gets used to it, more pressure/longer trajectory, more spin, more speed, more penetrating second speed/bounce. The downside of it is, it does takes a lot of intensive training, good endurance to make all those 'magics' happen. P.S. : it does crampes up my bicep, tricep, deltoid, upper pectoral, hip, thigh, and knee just to be back in former performance after almost a year without any intensive training, espescially with the new regular H3P which is not as crisp as the old one, and the plastic ball makes it worse LoL. |
Posted By: Hozuki
Date Posted: 07/14/2017 at 4:22pm
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If you like to loop consistently with forward stroke and closed angle -> h3 If you like to loop agressively with more physical effort, upward stroke, direct trajectory and open angle -> h2 Both can be effective rubbers depending on your preferences. |