So this is a for fun thread. Everyone is welcome to estimate whatever they want. Please estimate in USATT rating. These videos are of me. I'm the guy that appears in all the videos! Younger guy wearing black in the first 2 videos, and blue in the last 2.

Quick note: I've never played in the US. I started playing after moving to Japan, and I play at local clubs and tournaments. I live in rural Japan.

Here are some matches I played recently. I've edited out picking up the balls to shorten the videos. I'll include background on the players as well, so hopefully that helps.

Inverted Penholder. I've played in like 5 times over the last few years. I've never won. I've never even been close until now. He's one of the better players. He specializes in spin. Most of his serves have a lot of sidespin, and his pushes have quite a lot of backspin, too. While he is pretty good at opening, he usually pushes until the opponent opens, and counter loops from far from the table.

14-16

8-11

7-11

10-12 (We played 4 sets)

Inverted Shakehand Player. This was my second time playing him. I think I played him once like 3 months ago, and I won 3-1 then, too. He's an average player in the club. All round player. Can loop the ball, but seems to prefer smashing the ball (even underspin balls) closer to the table, and then looping further from the table.

11-7

7-11?

11-8

11-8

Inverted Shakehand Player. I've played her maybe 4 times over the years. I've never beaten her, but I usually get a set or 2. This time was pretty close, though. She's also an average player at the club. I find her style extremely difficult to play against. I usually push quite heavy, and I topspin balls quite a lot. She has like the perfect racket angle to attack my pushes (against other people she struggles to close the racket). And she blocks my attacks extremely quick off the bounce, usually with a slight down moving action. The ball comes back really quickly.

6-11? (My recording screwed up, so I don't remember the score completely)

11-13

11-7?

10-12

Inverted Shakehand Player. I've played him maybe 6 times. He's one of the best players at the club I play at. Top 5 for sure. 2 wing looper. Likes to play mid distance. I have a lot more 'unforced' errors against him. But that's probably to be expected against better players, since even the weaker balls they return are made to be harder to attack. Some of you may remember him from my other videos!

6-11

4-11

4-11

Don't forget, comments on the actual matches are of course welcome, too!

After rewatching, I'll say that it's probably on the higher end of that estimate. 

By the way cole_ely, I think the most consistent thing about all those matches was me missing at least 1 serve per set. I usually don't miss that many. But then again, recently I've been playing a lot less too (because of work).

The camera I used was the same for all 4 matches (taken in different places, with different lighting). I used a https://www.sony.com/electronics/interchangeable-lens-cameras/ilce-6000-body-kit" rel="nofollow - Sony Alpha a6000 with a https://www.sony.com/electronics/camera-lenses/selp18105g" rel="nofollow - 18-105 F4 lens . The camera is pretty old now, but gets the job done. It overheats easily though, so that's an issue.

Keep the estimates/comments coming :)

You would beat everyone at my club who is around 1000. you may beat a couple of 1100-1200s, but you wont beat the 1300 guys and definitely not a 1500 player.

so based on that I would say you are between 1100-1250

That's probably too low (his FH is too good), but I think other estimates are also on the high side. 

I'd be in the middle somewhere, ~1600, given how OP is troubled by some styles in the matches (e.g. blocker girl, I was almost sure she used pips on BH, but I guess she does good chop block with inverted too) and quite a few mistakes in other matches.

I think OP is at the stage where strokes are getting there from training, but match skills did not catch up yet.  

Japan is pretty into table tennis. She's been playing for like 20 years. But like most people, playing for fun rather than training. And of course, as an adult, people don't get as much time to play.

Club activities is also a big part of their improvement. For example, the last guy I played is like 24 or 25 now. He started when he was 12 (like many of the players here), playing 6 days a week as part of club activities in middle school, senior high, and in his case, he continued to play in university. The good thing about club activities is that most of the practice is structured, with time dedicated to performing specific drills and multiball.

Oh I envy them so much!! In Australia, I just went home at 3pm and wasted my nights away chatting on messenger programs and playing games!

Depending on where you live and play, everything changes. For example, where el luchador plays, many of those players may be heavily underrated. Though, I can't say for sure since I don't live in the US! I hope I'm a little higher than 1300, though this is all for fun, so feel free to estimate anything!

@pgpg Different styles is definitely a hurdle, and is what makes it interesting :) I still suck against LP, but I'm definitely much better at it compared to a year ago! I also think that's why I find that girl's style difficult. I've mentioned to her multiple times already that playing against her is like playing against LP, expect the ball comes back a lot faster, with less spin variation.

Opens decently well consistently against long serves and long returns. Takes the attack and keeps it fairly well. Seems in balance and control in extended rallies. I believe I saw a counterlooping rally in there. 

What makes you say nowhere near 2000, just curious? And for context, your level, if you wish.

Most players are unorthodox in their play, and thus I struggle because experience becomes more of a factor. LPs aren't unorthodox, but has the same feeling because I have a lot less practice against it. That said, I'm starting to feel a lot more comfortable against it, and I think in another year or so, I'll probably have no problems against it at the level I'm playing now.

I've only been playing about 2 days a week recently (with even less some weeks, sadly, and usually one of the sessions I spend helping middle school kids improve). I think everyone does much better in practice. I concentrate a lot more on form in practice. I think more about strategy during matches.

@BH-Man Oh, I completely agree! This thread really is just for fun. I play in a completely different environment, and we don't have rating systems like America. I kinda wish there was so I could see my improvement a little more objectively.

As low as 1100.

As high as 2000.

Right, and you are going to run into a lot of different styles in a tournament, especially at the lower levels (almost everyone is a 2-wing looper at 2000+, it seems...). So this is something that can keep your tournament rating down, until you figure out how to avoid costly losses to LP players, blockers, SP hitters etc.

Then I feel one should subtract few points for 'playing under pressure against unfamiliar opponent' situations, which casual club (and even league) matches mostly lack.

So, perhaps I'll revise it to 1500+-150 - based mostly on the fact that I played few folks this weekend that looked similarly to you in some aspects (great opening FH, rallies, movement), but performed at ~1500 level in the end. Your league rating would probably be higher, as BH-Man pointed out (mostly matches against familiar opponents with low stakes).  

Still, you are looking good here - plus we could be way off as well, that's just how it is with the videos. 

That said, the form of your game is correct and it can easily evolve into a 2000+ game once the acceleration (brushing for spin and going through the ball for spin drive with early timing) and backhand issues are resolved.  You really should be putting the ball past people with one shot more often given your form but the timing is just too late.

I did serve mostly long or half-long in those matches. I just did it because I felt like those were the most effective serves. If my opponents can't or don't attack my long serves well, no reason to serve short ;)

There were some games before where I served short often, but that was mainly because I was practicing, even if it was an actual tournament. My opponents didn't look so strong, so I served short to practice my third ball or backhand opening.

You can see them from my other thread  http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=77423&PID=987029&title=my-progress-over-time#987029" rel="nofollow - here .

Here is another one from that tournament that I don't think I linked. But yeah, my opponents aren't so high level.

This is a very wrong-minded approach unless you really believe that your opponents return your short serves better than they return your long serves, which in my experience is only true if they push short or have strong flicks, and even in that case, you probably won't develop a good backhand opener if you don't have strong short serves.  I serve short not because my opponents attack long serves, but because many of my opponents return short serves poorly because they lack over the table strokes.  Looking at the girl you struggle with for example, I find it hard to believe she returns balls when she has to reach over the table as well as the long easy serves you gave her, but what you have written that I quoted leads me to believe you think that.  Amazing.

In this particular case, I've played these people before, though not often, so I was following what I felt like worked well and didn't work well in the past.

Player 1 puts so much backspin on his pushes that when I served short with underspin, with the extra spin from his push, I had a lot of trouble attacking the third ball. Maybe now I could do it though, since it was probably close to a year ago that I last played him. So my general strategy was to serve long or half long, with side or side and top to get his return to pop up a little. Serving short didn't make it harder for him, but I felt like it made me less consistent with my opening.

Player 2 I probably should have served short more often since I don't have any problems with his pushes.

Player 3 I also had the same problem as player 1 in the past (maybe like 6 months ago). I'm not 100% sure her pushes are especially heavy, as I think player 1 pushes heavier, but she's good at making the ball come just a little shorter than I think it would, and I end up missing a lot, with many of my openers going into the net. I found long no spin balls to be the most effective in the past, and the only reason why I could take 1 to 2 sets is because I served nearly all no-spin long serves to her middle/backhand. The sets I didn't, I lose quite badly. That said, this time I used a lot more side spin balls, which I felt were quite effective. She definitely can't attack my short balls over the table well, which gives me a consistent chance at a third ball. I just sucked at the third ball. Maybe now I could do it though..

Player 4 is just much better than me hehe. The most effective serves in the past were actually short top/side spin serves. I didn't really do many in that match because they would only be effective a few times at most. I thought that I'd have to play riskier to get the points. Since he wasn't really attacking my long serves, and his openers I felt like were simple enough for me to get a chance at a third ball, I didn't change it up. I felt like playing from a short ball would play more to his strengths.

All that being said, I know I'll need to play more short serves to practice against it. I just felt like in those cases, those serves were better. But even if I was playing to win more than practice, I should have used more short serve variety. I actually did a lot less than I usually do.

That said, my instinct is changing all the time due to changes in my ability and experience. And my ultimate goal is to be at a level where I feel like I'm taking a big risk whenever I serve long.

I really do appreciate anyone who takes the time to reply, and while it sounds like I'm disagreeing with you with my reply, I do agree with you. My instincts just don't agree with my logical self. Hope that makes sense!!

I absolutely hateeeeeee how I lean too much on one leg when doing topspins. It's really high on my list of things I'm trying to fix. I've been thinking that the cause might be because 1. I take the ball too late or 2. I'm too close to the table, or a combination of both. This is one of the big causes as to why my balls are so slow. They're still quite spinny, but way too slow to really finish the point.

My backhand is a work in progress, and I still can't do most of the things I can in practice in matches yet. Way too many issues with it lol. I'll work on waiting for the ball to come. Sounds so easy but it's quite difficult to train. =(

@mts388 Haha yeah, he definitely expanded on that a lot more!

EDIT: Oh, I forgot to mention, player 3 is actually a woman in her late 30s hehe. She's just really small. 

Player 2, at least from the video, looks to be about just above beginner level... maybe 11/1200.  I'm shocked that he even got a game off of you and is the main reason I rated you lower.  

Player 3, as you mentioned, is a very good off the bounce counter blocker.  Note that she wants to control the middle.  She is uncomfortable at the angles which is where you should direct your attacks.  For the most part your loops were not strong enough to affect her at her cross over point.  Attack the angles where you had success.

Player 4 is clearly a number of levels above and looks like he had to back off a bit.  He's a good example for you to mimic.

I like pgpg's revised estimate (1500+-150).  Keep up the good progress!

@pongfugrasshopper Off memory I served a lot of side/side top and side under against player 1. Most my side under serves had a lot more side than under, too. A year ago when I played him, if we got into a pushing rally, I always lost the point. I'd either push it into the net after a few tries or drive it into the net. But I think I'm getting used to heavier spins now. So maybe it isn't too bad!

Maybe in the USA since there are a lot less players, most players are more dedicated and play at a higher level. Player 2 is easily better than 50% of the players here. I'm not sure how that translates though. I definitely won't call him just above beginner. But yeah, it might just be because there are more actual beginners here (especially students and older people). I lost the set against him due to a series of unfortunate events, and me trying different things. It's quite easy for a few things to go wrong and to lose a set t_t Similarly, I've taken sets off player 4 in the past, too. Never 2 sets, though!!

Player 3, yeah I lost strategically too.

Thanks!! I'll definitely keep working on it. I still feel like I'm nowhere near my peak.

Losing one game to a guy who you were clearly better than, and went on to beat clearly, (Player 2) doesn't mean much.  And that guy is probably 1500 or so. If anyone can still watch the point that started at 00:20 and think that guy is only 1100, I'm shocked. 

he plays actively in sanctioned competitions.

what would you say his rating is? please pardon the language

https://youtu.be/DTmgX_gsqJw

I think I'd give the kid a really good match ;) He reminds me a lot of the high school kids that play table tennis here. Some I can't beat, but most I can. Tho their levels range so much that some would smash me and some I'd win really easily, even if they've all been training for the same amount doing the same things. Generally those high school students are like him in the video, even more "out of control" than me, hehe.

That said, it would be great to see more from him, especially if you know his rating. His consistency was pretty low in that particular video. His opponent didn't particularly do anything in that video. I feel like against that opponent, I would have had a pretty easy time as well, without as many consistency issues. 

I think he'll struggle with my serves, and I think I could return those spinny balls. There are a few very spinny players at the clubs I go to and they all struggle with my blocks. I'm pretty good against the slow spinny loops if they don't have lots of side spin. If he's good at following up the attack though, then maybe it'll be tough. The reason is because the spiniest player I know who loves slow spinny loops just happens to be one of my practice partners. He lacks consistency though. A year ago I would have really struggled with them, but I got used to them.

The other opponent though, I couldn't see much from that video, so hard to say. Maybe he is much better. From the points I saw though, he looked lacking.

If you have more videos of any of those 2, it'd be great to see.

Here are some of the more interesting shots from our free play after the match.

Recently I've been overly obsessed with form and various other things, which I think is important if I want to improve, but on that day I set a different goal. I didn't think about anything at all. My goal was to move around A LOT. Just keep moving. I wanted to feel like I actually had a good workout.

Recently I've been paying more attention to getting in quickly and taking the ball right off the bounce if it's a short underspin serve, and that's been working quite well. But I sometimes misread the length and get jammed. So I still need more experience with it.

Your strokes look so much better than your old videos.  It's great to see you improvement.  Question: is there a reason why this kid only served long and mostly to your forehand?  Even his blocks were to your FH.  It's like he had a death wish.

Why does he always serve long? It depends on the student, but most students serve long because it's much easier to get into a rally. The people they usually play against (even stronger than them) are much more passive, and don't consistent attack the long ball like they should. Because they always practice long serves, their opening against a heavy, shorter push is very inconsistent (I generally push with more backspin than their usual partners), so they try once or twice, fail, then fall back to their long serves, trying to rely on spin variation instead, which generally doesn't affect me at the spin levels they are generating if it's to my forehand...

As for the blocking, I think I do this, too, so I suspect the reason is that they feel like they have a lot less time than they do to aim for the corners or cross court. Their regular partners are probably also less consistent, so just getting the ball back on the table has a good chance of them netting the point. They end up just passively blocking straight, which usually ends up being in a place I can continuously attack with my forehand.

And another very important reason is that I just included the more fun rallies in this video :) And since my forehand is more consistent, when we did have a longer rally, it was usually because it was me attacking with my FH and him blocking.

By the way, I saw the link to your TT club in Oregon. I've only been to the USA once (went to California), but if I ever get the chance, I'd love to visit! It's an inspiration to see that you accept anyone, even people who can't afford to pay. Looks like a great venue.