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Improving serve and receive game

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Topic: Improving serve and receive game
Posted By: Swiff
Subject: Improving serve and receive game
Date Posted: 10/20/2017 at 9:49am
Situation  1:
My serves are the weakest part of my game.  I've kept them pretty basic throughout the years.  I can serve spinny, but not deceptive.  I can serve low, short and little spin.  But again, not deceptive.  I occasionally come across players who can do anything they want with my serve.  Which leaves me feeling helpless.

Situation 2: 
My opponents serve is too good and their 3rd ball is a killer.  I can't make a good enough return so points never go past the 3rd ball.  

Also, I don't have a table at home or anywhere to practice serves.

These situations usually happen during the same match when I'm playing players 2300 or so.  I feel if I could get into the point, I have a much better chance.  I think I have a good and consistent loop and footwork.  I think I could play at a 2000-2100 level but my serve and receive game is Nukedestroying meNuke.

What's the best way to train to get past this barrier I've hit? 


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Replies:
Posted By: BRS
Date Posted: 10/20/2017 at 9:58am
Ummmm, practice your serves? Do you have a table at home?

Receiving is tougher to solve. You need to get a lot of exposure to a lot of different really good serves from lots of different players. If you live in one of the rare strong TT areas in the US you may be able to do this by playing all the tournaments and going to different clubs. Otherwise you could pay a coach to just serve at you for an hour. Don't play the points out, just multiball serve-receive.

That would help some, but it would mostly make you better at returning that one guy's serves. Versus an opponent with a different motion (a penholder, or serving bh), you might still feel lost. But some of it would transfer.


Posted By: Swiff
Date Posted: 10/20/2017 at 10:09am
Updated my answer to reflect your first recommendation. 

The area I live in sucks for table tennis.  There's 2 clubs, but not a whole lot of players.  And not that many good players.

And 0 coaches.  lol I want to move to California because of this.


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Posted By: Fulanodetal
Date Posted: 10/20/2017 at 11:20am
You need to practice your service. You need to learn a variety of serving motions (Tomahawk, Pendulum, Reverse Pendulum, Backhand). With each motion you can try variations to get different spins. And of course, no spin. And also you need to vary the depth and speed of your serves as well as placement. Last, you need to vary your starting position.

And stick to a couple of motions that you feel work best for your game.

Now, Im not saying you need to be an expert on ALL serve motions, just good enough that you can use them in a  game situation if you need some variety. Knowing how to execute those motions will help you with returning serves as well since you potentially know what spin they are imparting on that ball.

Practicing serve receive with a good player of course would be the  ideal.

As for deceptive serves, there's only a few that I know of. This is the golden nugget that is very hard to find information on.
Most books wont address this ( I have bought more than a dozen in the hopes of finding info on this very subject without any luck!). As far as I know only Larry Hodges has written about how to perform these. Like I said, it is information that many keep to themselves. 

FdT





Posted By: Simon_plays
Date Posted: 10/20/2017 at 2:00pm
Don't think deception is that much of a secret, you just do the same motion but either contact a different part of the ball or contact the ball at a different point of the serving motion?



Posted By: SmileTT
Date Posted: 10/20/2017 at 2:06pm
Originally posted by Simon_plays Simon_plays wrote:

Don't think deception is that much of a secret, you just do the same motion but either contact a different part of the ball or contact the ball at a different point of the serving motion?


There's also aftermotions Wacko


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Xiom Omega IV Euro | Freitas ALC | Xiom Omega IV Euro
https://tinyurl.com/yaoh8suu" rel="nofollow - Feedbacks


Posted By: Swiff
Date Posted: 10/20/2017 at 2:07pm
I've heard developing good serves, in general, makes your serve receive game better.  Is this the general belief? 

I really have NO way to practice serves.  The clubs I go to people just want matches and every table is full from the time we set them up until we take them down.  It's terrible.  


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Posted By: Simon_plays
Date Posted: 10/20/2017 at 2:09pm
Originally posted by SmileTT SmileTT wrote:

Originally posted by Simon_plays Simon_plays wrote:

Don't think deception is that much of a secret, you just do the same motion but either contact a different part of the ball or contact the ball at a different point of the serving motion?


There's also aftermotions Wacko

Sure, but I always thought that those were part of the things that one doesn't bother to learn because, whilst probably being quite effective on intermediate players, they really won't do much to confuse a decent player.
 


Posted By: Swiff
Date Posted: 10/20/2017 at 2:12pm
Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

When you are at the club, practice serves when you do not play if there is a free table, arriving in advance fro example.
At home you can do this maybe? It works:  http://boudour.com/servepractice" rel="nofollow - http://boudour.com/servepractice

How can this possibly help anything?  

You can't see the serve's height, angle, speed, length, spin or anything else.  Placement is one of the most important things to consider with a serve.  You're just spinning a ball onto a random surface.  


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Posted By: Simon_plays
Date Posted: 10/20/2017 at 2:14pm
Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:


At home you can do this maybe? It works:  http://boudour.com/servepractice" rel="nofollow - http://boudour.com/servepractice

Now this does look interesting. 

Brett Clarke, the multimillionaire app designer, recommends doing the same thing but just onto the floor of a hallway and then onto your bed. I tried it a few times but found that nothing could quite compete with actually standing at a table and a basket full with balls to hand.


Posted By: Fulanodetal
Date Posted: 10/20/2017 at 2:22pm
Don't think deception is that much of a secret, you just do the same motion but either contact a different part of the ball or contact the ball at a different point of the serving motion?"

That's not all there is to it. You're oversimplifying things. Yes I think Brian Pace of Dynamic Table Tennis explains the thing about making contact with the ball during different phases of the arm swing to give different spins. That's ONE method. There are other methods!

As I said Only Larry Hodges has been kind enough to actually explain how to do deceptive serves, including the one already mentioned. Unless I have missed some other author. Or YouTube clip.

FdT


Posted By: Swiff
Date Posted: 10/20/2017 at 2:24pm
Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

Originally posted by Swiff Swiff wrote:

Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

When you are at the club, practice serves when you do not play if there is a free table, arriving in advance fro example.
At home you can do this maybe? It works:  http://boudour.com/servepractice" rel="nofollow - http://boudour.com/servepractice

How can this possibly help anything?  

You can't see the serve's height, angle, speed, length, spin or anything else.  Placement is one of the most important things to consider with a serve.  You're just spinning a ball onto a random surface.  
all my club mates say my serves are above the average level of all my other strokes. If your mind is so narrow to not let you understand why it can be useful, just ignore and avoid being rude to people who took the time to answer.


I apologize if I was rude.  My mind is open, I just need to know why this would help.  Because I can't understand it.  If you could explain, I'd appreciate it.  

And I appreciate the time you took to respond.


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Posted By: SmileTT
Date Posted: 10/20/2017 at 2:26pm
Simon: You'd be surprised! Any added little bit of deception that can cause confusion will definitely net a weaker return if not win a point for yourself straight away.

Swiff: In your case, the best thing you can do is to practice serves in games, when you have a sizeable/comfortable lead. You can copy some opponents' serves and try them out yourself. See how it is returned back to you, then will have a better idea what return is uncomfortable for a particular serve.

Having great serves/setups are so important. It's the one part of the game that you can have full control over. Also, half of the entire game is your and opponents' serves! 


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Xiom Omega IV Euro | Freitas ALC | Xiom Omega IV Euro
https://tinyurl.com/yaoh8suu" rel="nofollow - Feedbacks


Posted By: Fulanodetal
Date Posted: 10/20/2017 at 2:28pm
Swiff, it seems you're in a very difficult situation. In order to improve your service the only option is to practice them on an actual table. Methods such as serving into carpets help to a certain extent. But nothing beats practicing at a real table.

in TT you learn by doing. Only way to get any kind of muscle memory.

So either get your own table or sneak into that club at night and practice. Reading books or youtube clips can only take you so far.

FdT


Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 10/20/2017 at 3:42pm
I used to have crappy serves until 2014, when I met Brett and started working with Ttedge. Since then, serves have become the strongest part of my game. It takes lots of practice to develop strong serves but I know what it is like looking for good tutorials in how to serve and not finding any. I actually opened a thread in the coaching section to collect info that I never completed.

So if anyone wants to learn a serve, let me know and if I feel I am competent enough to teach it, I will create a short free cheesy video. Of course, join Ttedge if you want a pro to teach you. I am just doing it because I remember what it was like to look for good material in how to serve and being stuck.

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https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon
FH/BH: H3P 41D.
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...


Posted By: Tt Gold
Date Posted: 10/20/2017 at 7:48pm
Originally posted by Swiff Swiff wrote:

I've heard developing good serves, in general, makes your serve receive game better.  Is this the general belief? 

I really have NO way to practice serves.  The clubs I go to people just want matches and every table is full from the time we set them up until we take them down.  It's terrible.  
then just stay a little longer or come earlier. What's the problem?


Posted By: dsc13
Date Posted: 10/20/2017 at 7:55pm
Originally posted by Swiff Swiff wrote:


I apologize if I was rude.  My mind is open, I just need to know why this would help.  Because I can't understand it.  If you could explain, I'd appreciate it.  

And I appreciate the time you took to respond.

The reason this simple exercise helps is that you will start to develop the technique and feel required to generate heavy spin and also control the trajectory of the ball.  You'll progress in stages.  First get the ball to roll back to you, using underspin.  Then work on getting it to roll back to you at a faster pace, which will require you to learn how to generate more underspin.  Then work on hitting the ball to different distances and have the ball back to you faster and faster.

When you can hit the ball so that it lands about a few inches in front of you and then kicks violently back past you, you'll have the touch to serve a heavy short underspin

I do have one piece of really bad news for you though.  You will never be able to learn how to serve unless you practice on a table and a net.  You may need to get creative on how to duplicate it, but you will need a table of some kind and something that resembles a regulation net.  And hours of practice.  


Posted By: Lightzy
Date Posted: 10/20/2017 at 8:16pm
Record yourself serving and post it here. You'll get a lot of advice


Posted By: 808ponger
Date Posted: 10/20/2017 at 11:09pm
If you haven't already downloaded it - the TTEdge app has been a great supplement for me as far as reading serves

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BTY Harimoto Stiga DNA M


Posted By: wanhao
Date Posted: 10/20/2017 at 11:23pm
One can practise in bedroom..one can see the spin u generate on your bedsheet...but for receiving one really got to play with more players and watch the ball coming from the player blade...


Posted By: Swiff
Date Posted: 10/23/2017 at 2:43pm
Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

Originally posted by Swiff Swiff wrote:

I've heard developing good serves, in general, makes your serve receive game better.  Is this the general belief? 

I really have NO way to practice serves.  The clubs I go to people just want matches and every table is full from the time we set them up until we take them down.  It's terrible.  
then just stay a little longer or come earlier. What's the problem?

Situation is not that easy. lol I'd love to come early or stay late to work on serves.  

The 2 clubs that are available, we arrive and setup the tables, then leave and take down the tables.  The gym is only available during a certain time, so players show up at the start and leave at the end.  Not much I can do.


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Posted By: Swiff
Date Posted: 10/23/2017 at 2:52pm
Originally posted by dsc13 dsc13 wrote:

Originally posted by Swiff Swiff wrote:


I apologize if I was rude.  My mind is open, I just need to know why this would help.  Because I can't understand it.  If you could explain, I'd appreciate it.  

And I appreciate the time you took to respond.

The reason this simple exercise helps is that you will start to develop the technique and feel required to generate heavy spin and also control the trajectory of the ball.  You'll progress in stages.  First get the ball to roll back to you, using underspin.  Then work on getting it to roll back to you at a faster pace, which will require you to learn how to generate more underspin.  Then work on hitting the ball to different distances and have the ball back to you faster and faster.

When you can hit the ball so that it lands about a few inches in front of you and then kicks violently back past you, you'll have the touch to serve a heavy short underspin

I do have one piece of really bad news for you though.  You will never be able to learn how to serve unless you practice on a table and a net.  You may need to get creative on how to duplicate it, but you will need a table of some kind and something that resembles a regulation net.  And hours of practice.  

I don't think I need to practice serving heavy spin.  Heavy spin is good, I guess, but it's too easy to read.  I'd rather keep my serves subtle and deceptive with good placement.  

As for short heavy backspin serve, that's a serve I already have in my skill set.  I'd consider myself good at serving low and spinny.  My placement isn't good and usually my serves aren't short, and high level players can open the point on these serves.

I need to become more advanced in my serve game.  I need to work on placement mostly and trajectory.  (all while developing completely new serves)  

I definitely need to do this on a table, though.  I may just have to bite the bullet and buy a cheap table for the basement.


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Posted By: smackman
Date Posted: 10/23/2017 at 4:23pm
play against the best server more, ask questions, when playing only do two serves the whole time 
ie something like a down spin and a less  or top spin
(this is when you go to the clubs)


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Ulmo Duality,Donic BlueGrip C2 red max ,Yinhe Super Kim Ox Black
NZ table tennis selector, third in the World (plate Doubles)I'm Listed on the ITTF website


Posted By: Tt Gold
Date Posted: 10/23/2017 at 5:39pm
Originally posted by Swiff Swiff wrote:

Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

Originally posted by Swiff Swiff wrote:

I've heard developing good serves, in general, makes your serve receive game better.  Is this the general belief? 

I really have NO way to practice serves.  The clubs I go to people just want matches and every table is full from the time we set them up until we take them down.  It's terrible.  
then just stay a little longer or come earlier. What's the problem?


Situation is not that easy. lol I'd love to come early or stay late to work on serves.  

The 2 clubs that are available, we arrive and setup the tables, then leave and take down the tables.  The gym is only available during a certain time, so players show up at the start and leave at the end.  Not much I can do.
you're playing in a club where you are a member right? Ask the guy with the key if you can pick up the key and get in early. There are ways you know


Posted By: CraneStyle
Date Posted: 10/23/2017 at 6:54pm
Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

Originally posted by Swiff Swiff wrote:

Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

Originally posted by Swiff Swiff wrote:

I've heard developing good serves, in general, makes your serve receive game better.  Is this the general belief? 

I really have NO way to practice serves.  The clubs I go to people just want matches and every table is full from the time we set them up until we take them down.  It's terrible.  
then just stay a little longer or come earlier. What's the problem?


Situation is not that easy. lol I'd love to come early or stay late to work on serves.  

The 2 clubs that are available, we arrive and setup the tables, then leave and take down the tables.  The gym is only available during a certain time, so players show up at the start and leave at the end.  Not much I can do.
you're playing in a club where you are a member right? Ask the guy with the key if you can pick up the key and get in early. There are ways you know


+ 1 To all this advice...

There's is no magic bullet; just practice...

How bad do you want it..?

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1. Mizutani Jun ZLC, FH T80, BH T05


Posted By: berndt_mann
Date Posted: 10/23/2017 at 10:32pm
As I'm not a mind reader, I don't know how bad Swiff wants it, but I want it bad.  Real bad.  Bad ass bad.  Three ball killer bad.  

And now that I can't play D very well anymore, and don't have a lot of a life other than singing and playing old time lonesome country music with my good buddies Ron Riggs and Rick Garcia, I'm just about prepared to spent the rest of my day practicing underspin/sidespin ghost serves that'll bounce back over the net and into my generously comfortable Starter shorts.

I'm even willing, and I never thought I'd be writing this, to try out, now that my cash flow has been ebbed, some of that there Grandson of Tenergy on my bh and Hurricane Neo Rank Amateur on my fh.  Plus a liberal soaking of whatever booster the pros are using these days.

Legality.  Who cares about legality?  Nobody but me in southwest Tucson knows anything about tt serve legality.  

I may have to wait till Gordy and the USATT decide to have an O-85 event, but if singing, playing my digital electronic keyboard and service practice don't kill me with my new illegal boosted unreturnable serve (don't know of any 85 year olds with a decent banana flick) I should be ready to not only be the O-85 National Champ but also take home the gold at the 2027 World Vets' in Novosibirsk.


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bmann1942
Setup: Mark Bellamy Master Craftsman blade, British Leyland hard rubber


Posted By: Swiff
Date Posted: 10/24/2017 at 9:40am
Originally posted by CraneStyle CraneStyle wrote:

Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

Originally posted by Swiff Swiff wrote:

Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

Originally posted by Swiff Swiff wrote:

I've heard developing good serves, in general, makes your serve receive game better.  Is this the general belief? 

I really have NO way to practice serves.  The clubs I go to people just want matches and every table is full from the time we set them up until we take them down.  It's terrible.  
then just stay a little longer or come earlier. What's the problem?


Situation is not that easy. lol I'd love to come early or stay late to work on serves.  

The 2 clubs that are available, we arrive and setup the tables, then leave and take down the tables.  The gym is only available during a certain time, so players show up at the start and leave at the end.  Not much I can do.
you're playing in a club where you are a member right? Ask the guy with the key if you can pick up the key and get in early. There are ways you know


+ 1 To all this advice...

There's is no magic bullet; just practice...

How bad do you want it..?

Please understand.  This cannot happen.  I'll try to explain in more detail.

  • On Wednesdays, my club is open from 6:00-9:00pm.
  • The club can only use the time we pay for. (6-9)
  • The hours CANNOT be changed to earlier than 6 or later than 9 or we'll get in trouble. 
  • At 6:00, most of the members are there and every table is taken.  
  • At 9:00, every table is still taken and we now all have to put the tables back and leave.


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Posted By: ZingyDNA
Date Posted: 10/24/2017 at 10:20am
Well, you need a table to practice your services. So you either use the club table or you find another table yourself. To use the club table you need to talk to your clubmates, either to let you use a table alone or, even better, to get someone else practice service/receive with you. You two can even serve from both ends of the table at the same time

If the above cannot happen, you either need to find a table that can do the above somewhere else, or, buy a table at home.

Originally posted by Swiff Swiff wrote:


Please understand.  This cannot happen.  I'll try to explain in more detail.

  • On Wednesdays, my club is open from 6:00-9:00pm.
  • The club can only use the time we pay for. (6-9)
  • The hours CANNOT be changed to earlier than 6 or later than 9 or we'll get in trouble. 
  • At 6:00, most of the members are there and every table is taken.  
  • At 9:00, every table is still taken and we now all have to put the tables back and leave.
   


Posted By: bard romance
Date Posted: 10/24/2017 at 10:30am
Hey man if you're trying to compete with players at the 2300+ level as you mentioned in your first post you're gonna need a table to practice your serves. The thing is, you may think you need deception in your serves to improve your game and this may not actually be the case. Simple but effective serves can go a long way. Do you have video or more details about your game? Just curious.


Posted By: GMan4911
Date Posted: 10/24/2017 at 10:59am
As a last resort, practice your serves during matches.  Instead of mixing up your serves like normal, only serve one serve, focusing on quality and not so much on winning.  The advantage of practicing serves this way is you get immediate feedback on whether the serve is good or not, something which you do not get when practicing serves alone.  There were times when I needed to practice my reverse pendulum serve so I've played matches where every single serve was the RPS.  Try it!

Quote I think I could play at a 2000-2100 level....
What is your level?



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OSP Ultimate II, FH/ITC Powercell Ultra 48 Max BH/ITC Powercell Ultra 48 Max
ITC Challenge Speed, FH/ITC Powercell Ultra 48 Max BH/Powercell Ultra 48 Max


Posted By: Swiff
Date Posted: 10/24/2017 at 2:25pm
Originally posted by GMan4911 GMan4911 wrote:

As a last resort, practice your serves during matches.  Instead of mixing up your serves like normal, only serve one serve, focusing on quality and not so much on winning.  The advantage of practicing serves this way is you get immediate feedback on whether the serve is good or not, something which you do not get when practicing serves alone.  There were times when I needed to practice my reverse pendulum serve so I've played matches where every single serve was the RPS.  Try it!

Quote I think I could play at a 2000-2100 level....
What is your level?


I'm 1800.  The people at my club tell me my rating should be closer to 1900-1950, but I don't perform well in tournaments.  

This is good advice.  I should practice serves in games.  

Originally posted by bard romance bard romance wrote:

Hey man if you're trying to compete with players at the 2300+ level as you mentioned in your first post you're gonna need a table to practice your serves. The thing is, you may think you need deception in your serves to improve your game and this may not actually be the case. Simple but effective serves can go a long way. Do you have video or more details about your game? Just curious.

I don't have any videos of myself playing, unfortunately.  I could give more details about my play style.   

I'd classify myself as a pretty straight forward hitter.  I'm a right handed player and shakehand.  Fast and spinny rubber on both sides.  My stroke is pretty textbook (I've been told) and my footwork is average, I guess.  I often step around to my forehand for looping, although I loop from both sides.  I play somewhat aggressively and attacking early.  I can generally loop backspin to get into the point and continue hitting to finish it.  My club mates recently told me that instead of developing my serve, I've focused on perfecting my 3rd ball to the serves I already have.  They seemed optimistic about it.


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Posted By: lgxb
Date Posted: 10/24/2017 at 3:20pm
actually you can practice your serve while sitting on a couch.


Posted By: Swiff
Date Posted: 10/24/2017 at 3:35pm
Originally posted by lgxb lgxb wrote:

actually you can practice your serve while sitting on a couch.

That's still not enough.  I should be able to practice my serve while laying in bed watching TV without a paddle or ball just swinging my hand.  Smile


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Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: 10/24/2017 at 4:03pm
Placement and keeping the ball low are ultimately more important than outright spin.

Focus one one serve each game and try to move it around to hit specific spots.

Ilya

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BTY Mazunov ST
Dignics 05


Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 10/24/2017 at 4:40pm
I have learned over time that in the absence of watching the specific player who you are giving advice to, rarely does general advice hit the mark as most players are not as self aware as they think they are.

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https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon
FH/BH: H3P 41D.
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...


Posted By: CraneStyle
Date Posted: 10/24/2017 at 6:55pm
Originally posted by Swiff Swiff wrote:

Originally posted by CraneStyle CraneStyle wrote:

Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

Originally posted by Swiff Swiff wrote:

Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

Originally posted by Swiff Swiff wrote:

I've heard developing good serves, in general, makes your serve receive game better.  Is this the general belief? 

I really have NO way to practice serves.  The clubs I go to people just want matches and every table is full from the time we set them up until we take them down.  It's terrible.  
then just stay a little longer or come earlier. What's the problem?


Situation is not that easy. lol I'd love to come early or stay late to work on serves.  

The 2 clubs that are available, we arrive and setup the tables, then leave and take down the tables.  The gym is only available during a certain time, so players show up at the start and leave at the end.  Not much I can do.
you're playing in a club where you are a member right? Ask the guy with the key if you can pick up the key and get in early. There are ways you know


+ 1 To all this advice...

There's is no magic bullet; just practice...

How bad do you want it..?


Please understand.  This cannot happen.  I'll try to explain in more detail.[/DIiV]

  • On Wednesdays, my club is open from 6:00-9:00pm.
  • The club can only use the time we pay for. (6-9)
  • The hours CANNOT be changed to earlier than 6 or later than 9 or we'll get in trouble. 
  • At 6:00, most of the members are there and every table is taken.  
  • At 9:00, every table is still taken and we now all have to put the tables back and leave.


Well, do you think your case is so unique..?

It's time to find another enthusiastic player in your club and start using your precious time for some serious practice...

Could be a man, woman or child, but you will both have an interest in seeing each other get better...

Practice what you need to improve, don't just play games...

Yes! You need a training buddy...

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1. Mizutani Jun ZLC, FH T80, BH T05


Posted By: lgxb
Date Posted: 10/24/2017 at 8:04pm
You will need to explain more detail.

1. when you serve long heavy underspin, how do the 2300 opponent attack? Do they loop? If it's really low heavy underspin, it's really hard to loop. Even they loop, it will not be high quality so you can counter attack. And if you can serve fast with good placement, then it's even harder for them. So maybe your serve is not low enough, not fast enough. Even you think it's heavy underspin, maybe it's not enough.

2. if it's short serve, what do they do? banana flick? I doubt many 2300 players have high success rate with it against heavy short.


Posted By: Swiff
Date Posted: 10/25/2017 at 12:11pm
Originally posted by CraneStyle CraneStyle wrote:

Originally posted by Swiff Swiff wrote:

Originally posted by CraneStyle CraneStyle wrote:

Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

Originally posted by Swiff Swiff wrote:

Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

Originally posted by Swiff Swiff wrote:

I've heard developing good serves, in general, makes your serve receive game better.  Is this the general belief? 

I really have NO way to practice serves.  The clubs I go to people just want matches and every table is full from the time we set them up until we take them down.  It's terrible.  
then just stay a little longer or come earlier. What's the problem?


Situation is not that easy. lol I'd love to come early or stay late to work on serves.  

The 2 clubs that are available, we arrive and setup the tables, then leave and take down the tables.  The gym is only available during a certain time, so players show up at the start and leave at the end.  Not much I can do.
you're playing in a club where you are a member right? Ask the guy with the key if you can pick up the key and get in early. There are ways you know


+ 1 To all this advice...

There's is no magic bullet; just practice...

How bad do you want it..?


Please understand.  This cannot happen.  I'll try to explain in more detail.[/DIiV]

  • On Wednesdays, my club is open from 6:00-9:00pm.
  • The club can only use the time we pay for. (6-9)
  • The hours CANNOT be changed to earlier than 6 or later than 9 or we'll get in trouble. 
  • At 6:00, most of the members are there and every table is taken.  
  • At 9:00, every table is still taken and we now all have to put the tables back and leave.


Well, do you think your case is so unique..?

It's time to find another enthusiastic player in your club and start using your precious time for some serious practice...

Could be a man, woman or child, but you will both have an interest in seeing each other get better...

Practice what you need to improve, don't just play games...

Yes! You need a training buddy...

Not arguing with this.  

I'm arguing with others telling me to come early/stay late so I can have my own table to practice serves on.  I'm very simply trying to point out that it's not possible in my situation.  That's all.  


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Posted By: mjamja
Date Posted: 10/25/2017 at 2:59pm
I have to second the suggestion to try using a single serve for an entire match or even for an entire night of play.  It is especially useful if you find yourself playing mostly weaker players.  After 2 games of seeing exactly the same serve even a 1400 opponent can start returning like he is 2000+.  

The real test comes in the 5th game when you are down 9-10 to someone who has never beaten you before.  Do you have the confidence and fortitude to serve that same serve you have been giving him all the match and face the strong return with your best 3rd ball effort?   Once you can do it without a second thought you will know you own that serve.

 I half to admit that I do not always stick to the high road in those situations.  But even when I don't it is an interesting test of my serving ability to suddenly pull off a completely different serve than I have been hitting all night.

Good luck with your practice.

Mark


Posted By: Tinykin
Date Posted: 10/25/2017 at 4:39pm
Originally posted by mjamja mjamja wrote:

I have to second the suggestion to try using a single serve for an entire match or even for an entire night of play.  It is especially useful if you find yourself playing mostly weaker players.  After 2 games of seeing exactly the same serve even a 1400 opponent can start returning like he is 2000+.  ..........
........


Nope. Unless it's topspin, after 2 games it should be so tight (consistently good) that all the 1400 receiver can do is push back meekly.
Try it.



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Blade:
Darker Speed90
Rubber Fh and Bh DHS Hurricane 3, 39/38deg

Delusion is an asset


Posted By: mjamja
Date Posted: 10/25/2017 at 4:49pm
Originally posted by Tinykin Tinykin wrote:

Originally posted by mjamja mjamja wrote:

I have to second the suggestion to try using a single serve for an entire match or even for an entire night of play.  It is especially useful if you find yourself playing mostly weaker players.  After 2 games of seeing exactly the same serve even a 1400 opponent can start returning like he is 2000+.  ..........
........


Nope. Unless it's topspin, after 2 games it should be so tight (consistently good) that all the 1400 receiver can do is push back meekly.
Try it.


Well come visit my club some time and watch the 1300 and 1400 plays tie me in knots with alternating deep pushes to the wide Fh, short drops that I can hardly reach, and flips which just seem to freeze me.

Mark


Posted By: chu_bun
Date Posted: 10/25/2017 at 7:27pm
Get two full sheet of plywoods, cut to correct size, put on top of a folding table, and you have something good enough for practice serves.  Or simply buy a cheap TT table on craigslist probably won't cost more a sheet of Tenergy. 
(Sorry didn't see your other post about purchasing a table)


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Clipper Wood, Sanwei Gears FH, Sanwei T88-I BH.


Posted By: Fulanodetal
Date Posted: 10/25/2017 at 8:02pm
"It's time to find another enthusiastic player in your club and start using your precious time for some serious practice...

Yes! You need a training buddy... "



And when you do find one, treat him/her better than a wife.....wives come and go but a Table Tennis sparring partner is one in a million!!!!


FdT


Posted By: Tt Gold
Date Posted: 10/25/2017 at 8:59pm
Originally posted by Swiff Swiff wrote:

Originally posted by CraneStyle CraneStyle wrote:

Originally posted by Swiff Swiff wrote:

Originally posted by CraneStyle CraneStyle wrote:

Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

Originally posted by Swiff Swiff wrote:

Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

Originally posted by Swiff Swiff wrote:

I've heard developing good serves, in general, makes your serve receive game better.  Is this the general belief? 

I really have NO way to practice serves.  The clubs I go to people just want matches and every table is full from the time we set them up until we take them down.  It's terrible.  
then just stay a little longer or come earlier. What's the problem?


Situation is not that easy. lol I'd love to come early or stay late to work on serves.  

The 2 clubs that are available, we arrive and setup the tables, then leave and take down the tables.  The gym is only available during a certain time, so players show up at the start and leave at the end.  Not much I can do.
you're playing in a club where you are a member right? Ask the guy with the key if you can pick up the key and get in early. There are ways you know


+ 1 To all this advice...

There's is no magic bullet; just practice...

How bad do you want it..?


Please understand.  This cannot happen.  I'll try to explain in more detail.[/DIiV]

  • On Wednesdays, my club is open from 6:00-9:00pm.
  • The club can only use the time we pay for. (6-9)
  • The hours CANNOT be changed to earlier than 6 or later than 9 or we'll get in trouble. 
  • At 6:00, most of the members are there and every table is taken.  
  • At 9:00, every table is still taken and we now all have to put the tables back and leave.


Well, do you think your case is so unique..?

It's time to find another enthusiastic player in your club and start using your precious time for some serious practice...

Could be a man, woman or child, but you will both have an interest in seeing each other get better...

Practice what you need to improve, don't just play games...

Yes! You need a training buddy...

<span style="font-size: 12px;">
</span>
Not arguing with this.  
<span style="font-size: 12px;">
</span>
<span style="font-size: 12px;">I'm arguing with others telling me to come early/stay late so I can have my </span><b style="font-size: 12px;">own<span style="font-size: 12px;"> table to practice serves on.  I'm very simply trying to point out that it's not possible in my situation.  That's all.  </span>
you can get another club member who also wants to practice serves and then you both practice serves while ignoring each other. Look at Chinese players, they often do this. That way no one can complain that you're taking a table.


Posted By: mjamja
Date Posted: 10/25/2017 at 11:07pm
I feel like I need to come to Swiff's defense.  The situation in a lot of small clubs in the US is nothing like what exists in much of the world.  The club has to beg for a few hours in some one else facilities.  They often do not have enough members to financial compete with other groups for the space.  Such limited playing time combined with a majority attitude of lets go have a little fun instead of lets work hard to get better means it is really hard to find practice partners.  Put that together with the small membership in lots of clubs and it is even more difficult to find a reliable training partner.

Currently there is only one player at my club that really wants to practice with me.  Because of his schedule and club practices on table time and player rotation I get about 20 min with him once a week.  Hard to do much serious training within those limits.  I get some other players to drill with me in exchange for coaching them.  But even then there is little real training time.

Mark -A small time coach at a small time club


Posted By: smackman
Date Posted: 10/25/2017 at 11:42pm
Or just do copy and paste to make long threads

or 
copy the good servers and paste them with your new one's


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Ulmo Duality,Donic BlueGrip C2 red max ,Yinhe Super Kim Ox Black
NZ table tennis selector, third in the World (plate Doubles)I'm Listed on the ITTF website


Posted By: Lightzy
Date Posted: 10/26/2017 at 2:02am
Buy one of those small cheap robots and have it serve you underspin ?



Posted By: Tt Gold
Date Posted: 10/26/2017 at 8:48am
Originally posted by mjamja mjamja wrote:

I feel like I need to come to Swiff's defense.  The situation in a lot of small clubs in the US is nothing like what exists in much of the world.  The club has to beg for a few hours in some one else facilities.  They often do not have enough members to financial compete with other groups for the space.  Such limited playing time combined with a majority attitude of lets go have a little fun instead of lets work hard to get better means it is really hard to find practice partners.  Put that together with the small membership in lots of clubs and it is even more difficult to find a reliable training partner.

Currently there is only one player at my club that really wants to practice with me.  Because of his schedule and club practices on table time and player rotation I get about 20 min with him once a week.  Hard to do much serious training within those limits.  I get some other players to drill with me in exchange for coaching them.  But even then there is little real training time.

Mark -A small time coach at a small time club
there's no need to defend him. We are not saying he is bad for not doing it, we are only pointing out that he could do it. If he really wants it then he'll find a way. It's just a question about wether he wants it or not. Don't say you want when in reality you don't want to. The mindset is important!


Posted By: pgpg
Date Posted: 10/26/2017 at 9:09am
Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

Originally posted by mjamja mjamja wrote:

I feel like I need to come to Swiff's defense.  The situation in a lot of small clubs in the US is nothing like what exists in much of the world.  The club has to beg for a few hours in some one else facilities.  They often do not have enough members to financial compete with other groups for the space.  Such limited playing time combined with a majority attitude of lets go have a little fun instead of lets work hard to get better means it is really hard to find practice partners.  Put that together with the small membership in lots of clubs and it is even more difficult to find a reliable training partner.

Currently there is only one player at my club that really wants to practice with me.  Because of his schedule and club practices on table time and player rotation I get about 20 min with him once a week.  Hard to do much serious training within those limits.  I get some other players to drill with me in exchange for coaching them.  But even then there is little real training time.

Mark -A small time coach at a small time club
there's no need to defend him. We are not saying he is bad for not doing it, we are only pointing out that he could do it. If he really wants it then he'll find a way. It's just a question about wether he wants it or not. Don't say you want when in reality you don't want to. The mindset is important!

I'm not sure if it counts as defending, but it's very useful to point out to some of advice givers that they   have no idea what they are talking about: "get a key to the club", "find a practice partner", "get a table for yourself" does not work in most situations in the middle of TT desert areas, that is most of US. 

I suspect mjamja understands OP's situation much better than our esteemed TT gurus from Germany and elsewhere.


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USATT: ~1810
Butterfly Defense Alpha ST - H3 Neo - Cloud&Fog OX


Posted By: Swiff
Date Posted: 10/26/2017 at 10:52am
It's tricky, to say the least.  

Practicing serves at my club, for reasons mentioned above, just won't happen.  That's just the way it works where I live.  Even if I could find someone to practice with, the club owner and other members expect us to play a match when we get on the table.  Just practicing serves would be frowned upon.

I do agree with the general attitude "wherever there's a will, there's a way".  Determination is everything.  Maybe practicing at my club won't work.  But I will buy a cheap table for the basement and just practice there.  I'm not so poor I can't buy a cheap-o table.


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Posted By: Tt Gold
Date Posted: 10/26/2017 at 10:54am
Originally posted by Swiff Swiff wrote:

It's tricky, to say the least.  

Practicing serves at my club, for reasons mentioned above, just won't happen.  That's just the way it works where I live.  Even if I could find someone to practice with, the club owner and other members expect us to play a match when we get on the table.  Just practicing serves would be frowned upon.

I do agree with the general attitude "wherever there's a will, there's a way".  Determination is everything.  Maybe practicing at my club won't work.  But I will buy a cheap table for the basement and just practice there.  I'm not so poor I can't buy a cheap-o table.
👍🏻 that's a good way. Good luck on improving


Posted By: qpskfec
Date Posted: 10/26/2017 at 3:19pm
"Practicing serves at my club, for reasons mentioned above, just won't happen. That's just the way it works where I live. Even if I could find someone to practice with, the club owner and other members expect us to play a match when we get on the table. Just practicing serves would be frowned upon."

Is this a club where you pay to play? If two paying customers want to use their table time on drills, why is it the business of others?

As long as everyone gets equal table time, nobody should care.

I have never been a paying club customer and had the owner tell people what to do. If the club is crowded and there are people waiting, the owner will keep track of time and ask the players who have been playing the longest to stop after 15-20 min or so.

btw, if you want a cheap diy solution for the basement, you can buy baltic birch plywood in 5' X 5' sheets. Cut 6 inches off an end and you have half a table. Put the halves on a 6 foot long folding table like the ones you can get at home depot. I did something like this when I was a kid. Works fine.


Posted By: cole_ely
Date Posted: 10/26/2017 at 8:42pm
I feel like the serve/receive game is the strongest part of my game and most agree.  I've never had a good server to regularly practice against.  I think it's just because I've played with serving so long that I know what to look for.  I have an idea what you can do with each motion.  I know that a high toss serve is easy to put top on, but takes a lot of skill to put backspin on and is unlikely at my level.  Stuff like that.

maybe there's a bar or rec center or somewhere like that you can practice.


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Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b

Please let me know if I can be of assistance.


Posted By: Lightzy
Date Posted: 10/26/2017 at 10:47pm
I bought a table just to practice serves on it. It's not that expensive either, no biggie.
Also for robot practice later on, but yeah..


Posted By: iamj8
Date Posted: 10/28/2017 at 7:56am
While on the topic of service receive, does anyone have any tips on how to increase strength in the banana flick?

Tips in terms of both in-game (actual stroke) and out of game (exercises). 


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A version of Hurricane 3
A version of Tenergy
A Stiga blade...



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