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Which Long Pips Rubber ?

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URL: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=81716
Printed Date: 07/20/2018 at 2:37am


Topic: Which Long Pips Rubber ?
Posted By: Veet
Subject: Which Long Pips Rubber ?
Date Posted: 02/07/2018 at 4:45am
Hi,

I'm thinking of switching to a Long Pips Rubber. Thought I'll do some research, but now, that has confused me even more... So many parameters, and to make things more confusing, so my sponge thicknesses.. 

I'm considering switching to a LP on my BH  due to :
  • A Recent elbow injury
  • Cannot move my feet as quickly as I could. .. I'm still working on this.I want to control the pace of the point.
  • My BH loop, drive, and top-spin technique is not on par. I genuinely tried .. even improved a bit, but now with the elbow injury has set my back, infact, made things worse.
On the FH, I can drive, loop, top-spin fairly well.. Over-all, I rely more on placement, angles, and tact, rather than speed, and power. I prefer slowing the point down, and dictating it at my pace.. I play close, but will move back, mid-distance, if the situation demands... 

Require LP recommendations, taking the following into consideration : 
  • My level is beginner - intermediate, but I would be new to long pips..
  • I require Control, Control and then some more ... I want to be able to place the ball wherever, at whatever pace..
  • I prefer over-the-table/close-to-table, pushing, chopping, with Heavy Spin.. So a LP rubber that can generate a decent amount of it's own Spin. My game is primarily push/chop on the BH, and Loop/Topspin on the FH. 
  • On the BH, I also Drive the ball, when the opportunity presents itself.
  • I typically dead-block top-spins to my BH .. But, if I happen to be away, I'll also chop back.
  • Would prefer Medium Spin-Reversal .. I understand that both, Spin and Spin reversal is not possible with the same rubber.
  • Low-Medium Deception... It would only be a bonus.
  • Thickness of the sponge
  • I'm a tad cost sensitive.. 
Thanks for taking the trouble of going through this rather lengthy post ...





Replies:
Posted By: LUCKYLOOP
Date Posted: 02/07/2018 at 4:55am

Dawei OX 388d-1 soft with good control and versatility.

Inexpensive too

-------------
Hntr Fl / 4H & BH Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0
Yinhe T-2 / 4H Xiom Sig Pro 2 2.0 BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max
Gam DC / 4H DHS Hurricane 8 39deg 2.1 BH GD CC LP OX
HARDBAT / Hock 3 ply / Frenshp Dr Evil OX


Posted By: Veet
Date Posted: 02/07/2018 at 5:03am
Originally posted by LUCKYLOOP LUCKYLOOP wrote:


Dawei OX 388d-1 soft with good control and versatility.

Inexpensive too

Thanks LuckyLOOP.... I'll surely check it out ... Is your recommendation based on your own experience with it ?


Posted By: Pushblocker
Date Posted: 02/07/2018 at 7:04am
If you want control, I would recommend CTT National Pogo or Friendship 755.. Both are high control rubbers, ideal for anyone starting to play with long pips.. I have tried over 30 different long pips and Pogo has the best control. It's not very funky and does not bother opponents like other rubbers but it is a perfect rubber for control and to learn to play with long pip.. It does everything well but nothing great.. In my opinion, Pogo is the best allround long pips rubber. I would recommend OX unless you plan on chopping far away from the table..

-------------
2010 Florida State Champion

Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon OX with removed glue sheet on backhand


Posted By: firetack
Date Posted: 02/07/2018 at 7:52am
388d-1 ia a good place to start,if you want to attack as well get it with sponge 0.5,give it enough Time and it will pay off eventually when your reading of lp gets better so will control

-------------
blade:donic defplay senso fh/tenergy 05 fx 1.9 ,feint 3 0,5



Posted By: Veet
Date Posted: 02/07/2018 at 12:21pm
Hi Pushblocker, Firetack,

Thanks for the suggestions ... 

I've heard of Dawei, but this is first I'm hearing of CTT or Pogo..

Anyway, I did some reading-up on it, and it seems to have very good control ...and has received mostly positive reviews..


Posted By: rocketman222
Date Posted: 02/07/2018 at 12:42pm
Palio ck531a is also a good candidate and cheap.

-------------
http://www.bladesbycharlie.com/models/hinokighost" rel="nofollow - BBC Hinoki Ghost
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=74126&title=feedback-rocketman222" rel="nofollow - My Feedback


Posted By: emihet
Date Posted: 02/07/2018 at 12:56pm
755 or Butterfly feint 3

-------------
Stiga Clipper Wood, Viscaria,BBC,


Posted By: MydasDiablo
Date Posted: 02/07/2018 at 12:59pm
Although not a LP, Dr Neubauer Nugget might do the job you want it to. The recent review by TT-Maximum showed it to be very versatile with its stand out feature being bucket loads of control. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Pe_z9_gu1s" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Pe_z9_gu1s


Posted By: vanjr
Date Posted: 02/07/2018 at 5:13pm
Close to the table means you have to go into it planning to block and hit some. Chopping is essentially out. Pushblocking and dead blocking are in. 
Almost any of the prior mentioned rubbers can work for you. Probably the best thing you can do is get one (preferably a cheap one), go OX and stick with it. The LP EJ junkie journey can be very, very, very long with little benefit.


-------------
Gambler Hinoki Vector or AVX J power-Double inverted. Gambler mech tek FH black on FH, tibhar elp or T05 red on BH. I can't seem to commit....


Posted By: LUCKYLOOP
Date Posted: 02/07/2018 at 7:22pm

Work on your long pips fundamentals, then later you can pick a long pips that closely fits your desired playing style. Watch videos of the Pushblocker is a good place to learn.


Posted By: Veet
Date Posted: 02/08/2018 at 4:51am
Hi,

Thank you, to everyone of here, for their suggestions ...

To start-off with LPs, I'm thinking of getting one that's cheap. Perhaps, one of the Chinese ones.. From all the above recommendations, the Dawei 388D-1 seems like an option. I'm also wondering about ones like Giant Dragon Crop Circles, and Spinlord Donenglanz (A tad more expensive)..

Also, my current Blade is a 23+year old  Butterfly Joyner -H AN (OFF) ply... This the "Made in Japan" one, with the Metal tag on the handle. If I am to switch to a LP, shall I stick with this ply or switch to another one, for best LP effect ..


Posted By: skip3119
Date Posted: 02/08/2018 at 8:51am
Dawei 388D-1 is the most popular LP rubber used in China.
One of our club's top players uses that, he is a 2300+ player.
I use the same LP, 388D-1, but I am 600 rating points below him.
Dawei 388D-1 is very cheap.

It is not the rubber, it is the skill that counts.


Posted By: kakapo
Date Posted: 02/08/2018 at 8:57am
Xiying 979, cheap and efficient

-------------
Spinlord ultra carbon ST, Rasanter 42 2mm, DMS Elimination, 0,5mm, japsko glued


Posted By: Veet
Date Posted: 02/08/2018 at 10:51pm
Originally posted by Veet Veet wrote:

Hi,

I'm also wondering about ones like Giant Dragon Crop Circles, and Spinlord Donenglanz (A tad more expensive)..

Also, my current Blade is a 23+year old  Butterfly Joyner -H AN (OFF) ply... This the "Made in Japan" one, with the Metal tag on the handle. If I am to switch to a LP, shall I stick with this ply or switch to another one, for best LP effect ..

Anyone ?


Posted By: LUCKYLOOP
Date Posted: 02/08/2018 at 10:59pm
Originally posted by Veet Veet wrote:

Originally posted by Veet Veet wrote:

Hi,

I'm also wondering about ones like Giant Dragon Crop Circles, and Spinlord Donenglanz (A tad more expensive)..

Also, my current Blade is a 23+year old <span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"> </span><span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">Butterfly Joyner -H AN (OFF) ply... This the "Made in Japan" one, with the Metal tag on the handle. If I am to switch to a LP, shall I stick with this ply or switch to another one, for best LP effect ..</span>



Anyone ?


Both good rubbers, but too advanced for you.

I would go with a defensive blade or an all around inexpensive one.

-------------
Hntr Fl / 4H & BH Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0
Yinhe T-2 / 4H Xiom Sig Pro 2 2.0 BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max
Gam DC / 4H DHS Hurricane 8 39deg 2.1 BH GD CC LP OX
HARDBAT / Hock 3 ply / Frenshp Dr Evil OX


Posted By: Veet
Date Posted: 02/09/2018 at 2:30am
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

If you want control, I would recommend CTT National Pogo or Friendship 755.. Both are high control rubbers, ideal for anyone starting to play with long pips.. I have tried over 30 different long pips and Pogo has the best control. It's not very funky and does not bother opponents like other rubbers but it is a perfect rubber for control and to learn to play with long pip.. It does everything well but nothing great.. In my opinion, Pogo is the best allround long pips rubber. I would recommend OX unless you plan on chopping far away from the table..

I've been doing a lot of reading on Pogo, and the more I read, the more I tend to agree with your recommendation.. The downside is that it's not available in any store (offline or online), in India... 

Anyway, as for the blade, which one would you recommend ?


Posted By: Pushblocker
Date Posted: 02/09/2018 at 6:40am
Originally posted by kakapo kakapo wrote:

Xiying 979, cheap and efficient

You can't use it in sanctioned events anymore.. It's coming off the authorized rubbers list..


-------------
2010 Florida State Champion

Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon OX with removed glue sheet on backhand


Posted By: Pushblocker
Date Posted: 02/09/2018 at 6:41am
Originally posted by Veet Veet wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

If you want control, I would recommend CTT National Pogo or Friendship 755.. Both are high control rubbers, ideal for anyone starting to play with long pips.. I have tried over 30 different long pips and Pogo has the best control. It's not very funky and does not bother opponents like other rubbers but it is a perfect rubber for control and to learn to play with long pip.. It does everything well but nothing great.. In my opinion, Pogo is the best allround long pips rubber. I would recommend OX unless you plan on chopping far away from the table..

I've been doing a lot of reading on Pogo, and the more I read, the more I tend to agree with your recommendation.. The downside is that it's not available in any store (offline or online), in India... 

Anyway, as for the blade, which one would you recommend ?
I have used it on my Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus blade..  I have also used it on the HALLMARK Aurora blade on the slower side. I do like it better on the Firewall Plus blade.  I feel that it has more control on the Firewall Plus blade..  I have only played the OX version, so I can't comment on the sponged versions of Pogo..


-------------
2010 Florida State Champion

Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon OX with removed glue sheet on backhand


Posted By: Veet
Date Posted: 02/09/2018 at 7:06am
The issue with some of the above recommendations, is availability.. Most of these are not available... The only Dr. Neubauer blade available is Bulldog (For around $72) 

Also, ordering online from International shops/sites is expensive, due to shipping and duties..  For Example - Pogo is available for $8 , but shipping is $24... 

There are some vendors (online), selling Yinhe Long Pips - namely, Neptune & Quing .. 




Posted By: Pushblocker
Date Posted: 02/09/2018 at 9:00am
Originally posted by Veet Veet wrote:

The issue with some of the above recommendations, is availability.. Most of these are not available... The only Dr. Neubauer blade available is Bulldog (For around $72) 

Also, ordering online from International shops/sites is expensive, due to shipping and duties..  For Example - Pogo is available for $8 , but shipping is $24... 

There are some vendors (online), selling Yinhe Long Pips - namely, Neptune & Quing .. 



Tabletennis11.com ships worldwide and and least to the US, they ship fairly cheap..

They do have the Firewall Plus blade..

http://www.tabletennis11.com/other_eng/dr-neubauer-firewall-plus


-------------
2010 Florida State Champion

Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon OX with removed glue sheet on backhand


Posted By: BeaverMD
Date Posted: 02/09/2018 at 11:32am
Originally posted by Veet Veet wrote:


I'm considering switching to a LP on my BH  due to :
  • A Recent elbow injury
  • Cannot move my feet as quickly as I could. .. I'm still working on this.I want to control the pace of the point.
  • My BH loop, drive, and top-spin technique is not on par. I genuinely tried .. even improved a bit, but now with the elbow injury has set my back, infact, made things worse.

I don't think you have to switch to LP just yet.  You're better off switching to Reflectoid 1.5mm.  Search videos on youtube and you will see effective close to the table blocking with some attacks mixed in.  You can win a couple of points per game too with the "brake effect".  Fun stuff!

Also, you need to consider a certain mentality that comes with being a LP player whether it's how you want to win or how you react to various b.s. that LP players have to deal with.  More than anything, I admire their ability to brush rude players off.  Most would get in a fight if subject to these situations LOL!


Posted By: Veet
Date Posted: 02/09/2018 at 12:35pm
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:


Tabletennis11.com ships worldwide and and least to the US, they ship fairly cheap..

They do have the Firewall Plus blade..

http://www.tabletennis11.com/other_eng/dr-neubauer-firewall-plus

With Shipping, the Firewall Plus works-out to around $63 ... That's worth considering... Thanks... Now, only if I could find something like this for the Pogo pips...


Posted By: Pushblocker
Date Posted: 02/09/2018 at 1:00pm
Originally posted by Veet Veet wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:


Tabletennis11.com ships worldwide and and least to the US, they ship fairly cheap..

They do have the Firewall Plus blade..

http://www.tabletennis11.com/other_eng/dr-neubauer-firewall-plus

With Shipping, the Firewall Plus works-out to around $63 ... That's worth considering... Thanks... Now, only if I could find something like this for the Pogo pips...


Not sure how much they charge for shipping.. I believe that price is in Australian Dollar, not US Dollar.. Unfortunately, they only have 0.6mm and not OX..



http://www.affordablett.com.au/shop/ctt-national-pogo-with-06mm-sponge-deceptive-long-pimps-p-1352.html


OOAK has OX..

https://tabletennisshop.com.au/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=844


-------------
2010 Florida State Champion

Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon OX with removed glue sheet on backhand


Posted By: mhnh007
Date Posted: 02/09/2018 at 1:33pm

Dandoy has it in OX.

http://www.dandoy-sports.com/ctt-national-pogo.html" rel="nofollow - www.dandoy-sports.com/ctt-national-pogo.html

Pushblocker - Where do you get your Giant Dragon Talon?


Posted By: Egghead
Date Posted: 02/09/2018 at 2:27pm
no love for Bomb Talent LOL

Here are my 2 cents;
hv $ to burn => Tibhar Grass (it worth every penny)
not so so => Giant Dragon Talon (poor man's version of grass)

if not, you can try talnet, 338D, 338D-1, 755. Personally, I don't like Neptune or Quing. I play close table.


-------------
Aurora ST: Rhyzm / Talent OX


Posted By: Pushblocker
Date Posted: 02/09/2018 at 2:36pm
Originally posted by mhnh007 mhnh007 wrote:


Dandoy has it in OX.

http://www.dandoy-sports.com/ctt-national-pogo.html" rel="nofollow - www.dandoy-sports.com/ctt-national-pogo.html

Pushblocker - Where do you get your Giant Dragon Talon?
I'm playing Dragon Talon National Team version which is ONLY available at 

http://www.ttdd.de

There is a place in Malaysia that also has it but their payment processing company can't process US credit cards..

http://www.tenryu.com.my/store/Giant+Dragon-Dragon+Talon+National+Team/q?m=prod&prod_id=828&in=9


-------------
2010 Florida State Champion

Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon OX with removed glue sheet on backhand


Posted By: Veet
Date Posted: 02/09/2018 at 11:43pm
Originally posted by mhnh007 mhnh007 wrote:


Dandoy has it in OX.

http://www.dandoy-sports.com/ctt-national-pogo.html" rel="nofollow - www.dandoy-sports.com/ctt-national-pogo.html

Pushblocker - Where do you get your Giant Dragon Talon?

I tried ordering from Dandoy, but discovered that they don't ship to India .... Cry


Posted By: Kolev
Date Posted: 02/10/2018 at 6:58am
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:


There is a place in Malaysia that also has it but their payment processing company can't process US credit cards..

http://www.tenryu.com.my/store/Giant+Dragon-Dragon+Talon+National+Team/q?m=prod&prod_id=828&in=9



Ahhhhh..... I thought it was me, or my Visa which is Belgian.
Pity cause they offer a lot of quality stuff for decent price. I was there last year and was impressed by the people especially the owner. Lovely folks.
One question remains open: shall the Belgian customs ask me to pay import taxes like they always do when I buy from Japan?
Meanwhile ordering from China doesn't cause any headaches(so far)

-------------
4x Hallmark Carbon Extreme
FH: TG3 NEO, Thors
BH: any fast and light rubber


Posted By: Veet
Date Posted: 02/11/2018 at 12:23am
So, I'm still not sure what blade to buy ... Does it make send to just stick a LP on my existing Joyner ?
Has anyone used any of the following blades, and if YES, whats your take on it..

- Giant Dragon Kris II 
- Giant Dragon Kris
- Donic Defplay Senso (NOT THE V3)
- Donic Alligator Combi

Since I'm going to be testing the waters with LPs, I don't want to spend much on the setup. At around $55 USD, I find the The Dr. Newbauer Firewall blades to be more on the expensive side. Initially, I don't want to spend more than $35USD, on a blade...


Posted By: kakapo
Date Posted: 02/11/2018 at 3:53am
Originally posted by Kolev Kolev wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:


There is a place in Malaysia that also has it but their payment processing company can't process US credit cards..

http://www.tenryu.com.my/store/Giant+Dragon-Dragon+Talon+National+Team/q?m=prod&prod_id=828&in=9



Ahhhhh..... I thought it was me, or my Visa which is Belgian.
Pity cause they offer a lot of quality stuff for decent price. I was there last year and was impressed by the people especially the owner. Lovely folks.
One question remains open: shall the Belgian customs ask me to pay import taxes like they always do when I buy from Japan?
Meanwhile ordering from China doesn't cause any headaches(so far)

True, Belgian Customs are obsessed by packages coming from Japan (even sent as gift with low declared value, they open it each time :)) I have ordered maybe 50 times from China, Hong Kong, Taiwan...never been caught. From Japan, only 2 packages arrived without being caught.....They even stole me brand new shoes which I ordered straight from Butterfly Japan in 2010.....They told me these were maybe fakes....I had the invoice from Butterfly company and I paid more than 100 EUR to get them...this model was not for sale in Europe..a few months later they sold them without leting me know ....
I know this is not the subject of this thread but your comment reminds me that horrible souvenir....


-------------
Spinlord ultra carbon ST, Rasanter 42 2mm, DMS Elimination, 0,5mm, japsko glued


Posted By: pitigoi
Date Posted: 02/11/2018 at 9:57am
Originally posted by Veet Veet wrote:

So, I'm still not sure what blade to buy ... Does it make send to just stick a LP on my existing Joyner ?
Has anyone used any of the following blades, and if YES, whats your take on it..

- Giant Dragon Kris II 
- Giant Dragon Kris
- Donic Defplay Senso (NOT THE V3)
- Donic Alligator Combi

Since I'm going to be testing the waters with LPs, I don't want to spend much on the setup. At around $55 USD, I find the The Dr. Newbauer Firewall blades to be more on the expensive side. Initially, I don't want to spend more than $35USD, on a blade...


I am using Donic Cayman and Dr. Newbauer Firewall Plus, both with Grass D. Tech.
Cayman is a bit more bouncy but OK at my level. Both very thick, which is what
I wanted, to compensate for the OX Long Pips.

Giant Dragon Kris II seemed interesting but impossible to get in the U.S.


Posted By: LUCKYLOOP
Date Posted: 02/11/2018 at 5:35pm

XVT 10mm balsa carbon plays all around

I have two using with Globe 979 OX.



-------------
Hntr Fl / 4H & BH Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0
Yinhe T-2 / 4H Xiom Sig Pro 2 2.0 BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max
Gam DC / 4H DHS Hurricane 8 39deg 2.1 BH GD CC LP OX
HARDBAT / Hock 3 ply / Frenshp Dr Evil OX


Posted By: NoFootwork
Date Posted: 02/11/2018 at 7:32pm
Veet,

You won't be able to find any LP that is currently made that will satisfy all of your requirements.  You need to think about which are most important to you.  If staying close to the table and blocking with the LP is most important then the best LP will be one that is OX.

Go with any cheap Chinese OX LP that is easily available in India.  Friendship 755, Talon, Neptune, Dawei 388D or any of the other Chiniese LPs already recommended in OX are all fine for close to the table LP blocking.  Learn to control the ball and chop block with any of these.

This includes learning how to deal with dead/no spin balls.  Learn to twiddle and play with inverted with on your BH every once in a while.  If you are physically able to, learn to step around your BH to attack with your FH. You will need all of these techniques to continue to improve your level with LPs.

You should be aware with the lower spin generally with plastic ball, there is a lot less spin reversal from LPs and less funkiness.  You can push aggressively or attack against backspin balls with OX LPs.  However, you cannot attack consistently against no spin or topspin balls with OX.  You need to understand the limitations of what LPs can and cannot do and you will need to build your game around that.
 
I would not change your current blade to try LPs.  A blade change may also cause your FH rubber play different.  Change 1 variable at a time.  Also be aware due to the reduction in the overall weight of your setup due to OX LPs as well as change in balance, your FH may/will feel a bit different.
 


Posted By: JacekGM
Date Posted: 02/11/2018 at 8:00pm
I use LPs only on the ca. 0.5 mm sponge. My own take on National Pogo: avoid it. True, it is very easy to use, but it is even much easier for the opponent to do with your shots whatever they want. 
For me, 755 was much better, considering the average of control and difficulty for opponent. Similar holds true for 388d-1. A few guys in my club use TSP LPs or MPs for close to the table blocking style. Maybe have a look at these, even P1R can work well for the blocking style even though it is meant primarily for modern def/choppers.
Also, there is a bunch of very interesting LPs from Dr N. if you don't mind spending some.
Another option is to start with a tough one, like the Tibhar Grass DTecs and go through some suffering on the tough road to excellence...



-------------
(1) Juic SBA (Fl, 85 g) with Bluefire JP3 (red max) on FH and 0.6 mm DR N Desperado on BH; (2) Yinhe T7 (Fl, 87 g) with Bluefire M3 (red 2.0) on FH and 0.6 mm 755 on BH.


Posted By: Veet
Date Posted: 02/11/2018 at 11:15pm
Hello NoFootwork..

Thank you your suggestions.. much appreciated!!

Originally posted by NoFootwork NoFootwork wrote:

Veet,

You won't be able to find any LP that is currently made that will satisfy all of your requirements.  You need to think about which are most important to you.  If staying close to the table and blocking with the LP is most important then the best LP will be one that is OX.

I already understand that, which is why I had mentioned it, right at the beginning of the thread, that Control is my top priority, followed by Spin. Then, Spin-Reversal, and Deception, which although not priorities, would be nice to have as added bonuses... 

Originally posted by NoFootwork NoFootwork wrote:

Go with any cheap Chinese OX LP that is easily available in India.  Friendship 755, Talon, Neptune, Dawei 388D or any of the other Chiniese LPs already recommended in OX are all fine for close to the table LP blocking.  Learn to control the ball and chop block with any of these.

The main issue in India is, availability ... Most vendors (Online or Offline) have never even heard of brands like Dawei, CTT, Giant Dragon etc... Friendship is a known brand here, but the 755 is not available. 

Originally posted by NoFootwork NoFootwork wrote:


This includes learning how to deal with dead/no spin balls.  Learn to twiddle and play with inverted with on your BH every once in a while.  If you are physically able to, learn to step around your BH to attack with your FH. You will need all of these techniques to continue to improve your level with LPs.

You should be aware with the lower spin generally with plastic ball, there is a lot less spin reversal from LPs and less funkiness.  You can push aggressively or attack against backspin balls with OX LPs.  However, you cannot attack consistently against no spin or topspin balls with OX.  You need to understand the limitations of what LPs can and cannot do and you will need to build your game around that.

Yes, I understand that there would be a learning curve .. Probably a steep one.. I'm wondering if I should use OX, or a thin sponge (0.5 or 0.6)
 
Originally posted by NoFootwork NoFootwork wrote:

I would not change your current blade to try LPs.  A blade change may also cause your FH rubber play different.  Change 1 variable at a time.  Also be aware due to the reduction in the overall weight of your setup due to OX LPs as well as change in balance, your FH may/will feel a bit different. 

I don't mind using my existing blade... However, it is a 25year+ blade, and has gone through several rubber changes.. So, I'm not too sure if it can endure another..


Posted By: Veet
Date Posted: 02/12/2018 at 4:17am
Hi JacekGM,

Thanks for your response and suggestions...

Originally posted by JacekGM JacekGM wrote:

I use LPs only on the ca. 0.5 mm sponge.

That's another aspect I'm wondering 'bout  - whether to opt for an OX, or to get a minimal sponge (like 0.5mm or 0.6mm), and how much of a difference it would make. 

Originally posted by JacekGM JacekGM wrote:

My own take on National Pogo: avoid it. True, it is very easy to use, but it is even much easier for the opponent to do with your shots whatever they want. 

For me, 755 was much better, considering the average of control and difficulty for opponent. Similar holds true for 388d-1. A few guys in my club use TSP LPs or MPs for close to the table blocking style. Maybe have a look at these, even P1R can work well for the blocking style even though it is meant primarily for modern def/choppers.

My thinking is - Start off with a easier LP, and then progressively move-on to more effective, but difficult to use LPs.. Initially, I just want to get a feel of an LP, cause, at this point, I don't even know if it'll suite my game, or whether I'll be able to adapt or learn the technique... 

The 755 and 388-1 comes recommended by many, on this thread.. So, I'm open to even these..
Originally posted by JacekGM JacekGM wrote:

Also, there is a bunch of very interesting LPs from Dr N. if you don't mind spending some.
Another option is to start with a tough one, like the Tibhar Grass DTecs and go through some suffering on the tough road to excellence...

Since I'm only going to be trying to LP, initially, I surely don't want to start-off with advance and expensive ones like Dr. N and/or DTecs... 


Posted By: pgpg
Date Posted: 02/12/2018 at 11:07am
My advice would be to put ANY LP on your BH and give it a shot. You are suffering from a case of 'paralysis by analysis' right now and an illusion of being able to come up with an optimal (for you) choice by simply reading and discussing multiple options on the Internet. It is fun in itself, but no replacement for actual experience at the table.

Just get something (borrowing paddle for a few minutes from a club mate works too) - you might hate it, as you pointed out yourself. 

 
 


-------------
USATT: 1700
Sword 309 - T05 - Dornenglanz OX


Posted By: Pushblocker
Date Posted: 02/12/2018 at 12:03pm
Originally posted by JacekGM JacekGM wrote:

I use LPs only on the ca. 0.5 mm sponge. My own take on National Pogo: avoid it. True, it is very easy to use, but it is even much easier for the opponent to do with your shots whatever they want. 
For me, 755 was much better, considering the average of control and difficulty for opponent. Similar holds true for 388d-1. A few guys in my club use TSP LPs or MPs for close to the table blocking style. Maybe have a look at these, even P1R can work well for the blocking style even though it is meant primarily for modern def/choppers.
Also, there is a bunch of very interesting LPs from Dr N. if you don't mind spending some.
Another option is to start with a tough one, like the Tibhar Grass DTecs and go through some suffering on the tough road to excellence...


I agree that Pogo does not bother opponents too much.. Easy to use but also not too deceptive for the opponent.. However, I think that for someone who does not have experience with long pips, it's the perfect rubber to learn to play with long pips. I think that rubbers like DtecS or Talon require a experienced long pips user as they are not as easy to control as Pogo.  There are plenty of good pips but many of them are kind of hard to play if you are new to long pips.


-------------
2010 Florida State Champion

Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon OX with removed glue sheet on backhand


Posted By: Veet
Date Posted: 02/12/2018 at 1:10pm
Originally posted by pgpg pgpg wrote:

My advice would be to put ANY LP on your BH and give it a shot. You are suffering from a case of 'paralysis by analysis' right now and an illusion of being able to come up with an optimal (for you) choice by simply reading and discussing multiple options on the Internet. It is fun in itself, but no replacement for actual experience at the table.

Just get something (borrowing paddle for a few minutes from a club mate works too) - you might hate it, as you pointed out yourself.  

What you've said makes 100% sense... this is some zen type advice....... 

'paralysis by analysis'  - This is the first-time I've comes across this quote.. and I love it... I'm going to use and reuse this quote, some where, some time... if you don't mind...




Posted By: 1dennistt
Date Posted: 02/12/2018 at 1:55pm
The Kris II blade is going to play different to your Jonyer...it is a stiff balsa blade, maybe medium fast with a fast and a slightly slower side.  Neither is what I would describe as slow.  The rebound from the balsa works well with the OX long pips (which ever one you choose), but you may find it requires some adjustment for your forehand.  It's been a few years since I used the Kris II and even longer since I used a Jonyer, but you may find it is harder to loop some balls but easier to hit with.  The Jonyer is a much more topspin friendly blade for most loop oriented play.  It's not that you can't loop with the Kris II, you can, just would require some adjustments since the blade doesn't help as much as your current blade.

As far as the Pogo goes, it is a good pip to start with.  

What brands do you have available to you?  Perhaps we could help you find something easily available for you.


-------------
Xiom Hayabusa Z+, Donic Bluefire M2 (Black) Max, Spinlord Keiler (Red) 1.8 mm, Wt. 161 gm total weight



Posted By: pgpg
Date Posted: 02/12/2018 at 2:27pm
Originally posted by Veet Veet wrote:

Originally posted by pgpg pgpg wrote:

My advice would be to put ANY LP on your BH and give it a shot. You are suffering from a case of 'paralysis by analysis' right now and an illusion of being able to come up with an optimal (for you) choice by simply reading and discussing multiple options on the Internet. It is fun in itself, but no replacement for actual experience at the table.

Just get something (borrowing paddle for a few minutes from a club mate works too) - you might hate it, as you pointed out yourself.  

What you've said makes 100% sense... this is some zen type advice....... 

'paralysis by analysis'  - This is the first-time I've comes across this quote.. and I love it... I'm going to use and reuse this quote, some where, some time... if you don't mind...



Also known as  (or at least related to)  'paradox of choice' phenomenon: offering too many options to the user can lead to increased frustration of said user. Kind of describes a lot of EJ problems.

 I did not coin it - it comes up a lot in business context though, at least where I work. So - feel free to use it :)


-------------
USATT: 1700
Sword 309 - T05 - Dornenglanz OX


Posted By: ChichoFicho
Date Posted: 02/12/2018 at 2:35pm
I recommend Spinlord Dornenglanz II. It is very easy to use, has great control in both attack and defence and is very durable.

-------------
Darker Speed 70

Hammond FA Speed

Tyotokusen


Posted By: Veet
Date Posted: 02/12/2018 at 7:10pm
Originally posted by 1dennistt 1dennistt wrote:

The Kris II blade is going to play different to your Jonyer...it is a stiff balsa blade, maybe medium fast with a fast and a slightly slower side.  Neither is what I would describe as slow.  The rebound from the balsa works well with the OX long pips (which ever one you choose), but you may find it requires some adjustment for your forehand.  It's been a few years since I used the Kris II and even longer since I used a Jonyer, but you may find it is harder to loop some balls but easier to hit with.  The Jonyer is a much more topspin friendly blade for most loop oriented play.  It's not that you can't loop with the Kris II, you can, just would require some adjustments since the blade doesn't help as much as your current blade.

As far as the Pogo goes, it is a good pip to start with.  

What brands do you have available to you?  Perhaps we could help you find something easily available for you.

Hi Dennis,

Thanks for your response... I do prefer looping/top spinning the ball, over flat-out hitting, especially on the FH;  unless is high and close to the net. I did read that the Kris II is a 2-speed OFF/DEF blade.. But, I guess I overlooked the balsa/stiff part.

The Joyner has some flex, and certainly loop friendly (was more so during the 38mm era).. However, I really don't think it would be able to endure another rubber change... The ply had already starting stripping off, during the last rubber change..

As for rubber that are readily available to me are : -
  • Tibhar Grass Dtecs (I am not even giving this rubber a thought)
  • Yinhe Neptune & Qing
  • Butterfly Feint (Don't know which one)
  • Phantom 007,008,008,011 
  • Sanwei Dizzy
  • Andro Chaos (Very Expensive)
I've found Dawei 388D-1, and the Friendship 755 on ttnpp.com, that too, at some ridiculously cheap prices.. ... However, I 'm not sure about the shipping... Anyway, I've sent them an email, inquiring bout the same..




Posted By: notfound123
Date Posted: 02/13/2018 at 9:15am
Originally posted by pgpg pgpg wrote:

My advice would be to put ANY LP on your BH and give it a shot. You are suffering from a case of 'paralysis by analysis' right now and an illusion of being able to come up with an optimal (for you) choice by simply reading and discussing multiple options on the Internet.  

Haha, my favorite is :   "I am an agressive looper with spinny loops on both wings. Can someone recommend a spinny rubber and a good blade for me?" 


-------------
VKMO | T05 | Curl P4


Posted By: Veet
Date Posted: 02/14/2018 at 1:04am
Hi,

I've found some of the recommended Rubbers and Blades on Aliexpress - They accept Indian credit card, and ship to India too... However, I'm not sure about the Authenticity of the products... Has anyone made purchases from Aliexpress ? Any views ?


Posted By: pgpg
Date Posted: 02/14/2018 at 8:31am
Originally posted by Veet Veet wrote:

Hi,

I've found some of the recommended Rubbers and Blades on Aliexpress - They accept Indian credit card, and ship to India too... However, I'm not sure about the Authenticity of the products... Has anyone made purchases from Aliexpress ? Any views ?

I did and it was fine (I was buying chinese blades and rubbers). Again, worrying about authenticity of 6-8$ LP is an overkill. Whatever differences among different LP flavors there is, it will be dwarfed by the fact that you don't know yet how to play with LP. 

May be I am misinterpreting your intent, but it does not sound you are 100% sure of committing to LP long term, you just want to try it, and we are not talking about serious competitive level either (I could be wrong). 

So, yes - Aliexpress is fine in my experience (shipping might be extra slow now because of Chinese New Year though)


  


-------------
USATT: 1700
Sword 309 - T05 - Dornenglanz OX


Posted By: pitigoi
Date Posted: 02/14/2018 at 9:08am
One more thing: gluing OX rubbers is really hard; if you buy a blade as well,
it is a good idea to buy them together and ask the seller to glue the rubber.


Posted By: Veet
Date Posted: 02/14/2018 at 1:03pm
Originally posted by pgpg pgpg wrote:


May be I am misinterpreting your intent, but it does not sound you are 100% sure of committing to LP long term, you just want to try it, and we are not talking about serious competitive level either (I could be wrong). 


Yes, I'm not 100% sure of committing to LP .. That being said, it's not like I intend of playing with it, for just a couple of days... I know, there would be a learning curve ... some adjusting/getting used to ... I will certainly give it my best shot..


Posted By: Veet
Date Posted: 02/14/2018 at 1:04pm
Originally posted by Veet Veet wrote:

Originally posted by pgpg pgpg wrote:


May be I am misinterpreting your intent, but it does not sound you are 100% sure of committing to LP long term, you just want to try it, and we are not talking about serious competitive level either (I could be wrong). 


Yes, I'm not 100% sure of committing to LP, for life .. That being said, it's not like I intend of playing with it, for just a couple of days... I know, there would be a learning curve ... some adjusting/getting used to ... I will certainly give it my best shot..


Posted By: Veet
Date Posted: 02/14/2018 at 1:12pm
So, I've got the rubber figured-out ... I found ordered the 729-755 and Dawei 388D-1 on Aliexpress.. Both were under $8USD..

However, I could not find any of the blades I had shortlisted... I'm not too familiar with the Chinese blades..  I discovered the Yinhe Galaxy T-9, on Aliexpress, which is a 2-Speed Blade. Based on reviews, it seems to be way too fast, and difficult to play with (??)

Apart from the Kriss II (Not Available on Aliexpress) Any recommendations on Chinese Blades, suited for LPs ?  Preferably, not too heavy, and slightly larger head ?


Posted By: pgpg
Date Posted: 02/14/2018 at 2:32pm
Originally posted by Veet Veet wrote:

So, I've got the rubber figured-out ... I found ordered the 729-755 and Dawei 388D-1 on Aliexpress.. Both were under $8USD..

However, I could not find any of the blades I had shortlisted... I'm not too familiar with the Chinese blades..  I discovered the Yinhe Galaxy T-9, on Aliexpress, which is a 2-Speed Blade. Based on reviews, it seems to be way too fast, and difficult to play with (??)

Apart from the Kriss II (Not Available on Aliexpress) Any recommendations on Chinese Blades, suited for LPs ?  Preferably, not too heavy, and slightly larger head ?

Sword 309 is pretty good - I am using it now and recently ordered 2 more as a spare and to do some 'experimentation'.

It is quite popular with defenders, especially in the Eastern Europe, I think.


-------------
USATT: 1700
Sword 309 - T05 - Dornenglanz OX


Posted By: vanjr
Date Posted: 02/14/2018 at 11:20pm
A really good defense chinese blade is the yinhe LQ-2. Great for chopping and looping. My all time favorite defensive blade.

-------------
Gambler Hinoki Vector or AVX J power-Double inverted. Gambler mech tek FH black on FH, tibhar elp or T05 red on BH. I can't seem to commit....


Posted By: Veet
Date Posted: 02/14/2018 at 11:34pm
Originally posted by pgpg pgpg wrote:

Sword 309 is pretty good - I am using it now and recently ordered 2 more as a spare and to do some 'experimentation'.
It is quite popular with defenders, especially in the Eastern Europe, I think.

I found it on Aliexpress.... 

How's the grip ?  I saw detailed pix of the blade, and to, it seems that the Wings go a tad too far down the handle/grip... I used to have a toy-racquet with a similar grip, and it was horrible to hold.


Posted By: pgpg
Date Posted: 02/15/2018 at 8:16am
Originally posted by Veet Veet wrote:

Originally posted by pgpg pgpg wrote:

Sword 309 is pretty good - I am using it now and recently ordered 2 more as a spare and to do some 'experimentation'.
It is quite popular with defenders, especially in the Eastern Europe, I think.

I found it on Aliexpress.... 

How's the grip ?  I saw detailed pix of the blade, and to, it seems that the Wings go a tad too far down the handle/grip... I used to have a toy-racquet with a similar grip, and it was horrible to hold.

It is a common complaint in reviews ('wings are too low') - but it did not bother me. 


-------------
USATT: 1700
Sword 309 - T05 - Dornenglanz OX


Posted By: Veet
Date Posted: 02/16/2018 at 11:12am
Hi,

Anyone played with Hallmark blades - Aurora, Combination, etc ? How would these blades, be suited to my style of play ?


Posted By: Veet
Date Posted: 03/04/2018 at 5:28am
Hello,

Just an update....

I purchased both, the Pogo and the Dawei 389d-1 rubbers.... I'll probably start off with the Pogo. 

Thanks everyone, for the suggestions and advice


Posted By: Veet
Date Posted: 03/25/2018 at 12:50am
Hi,

So, I played with my new setup, yesterday (Donic Defplay Senso V3, FH=Xiom Vega Euro, BH=Pogo OX), and it certainly didn't go anything as expected.

I'd like some input, suggestions, tips, etc.. from you guys..

So, here's how it went, for me...

  1. Went to club, but there were only players, who play a level or 2 below me, and who I typically, never lose a set to.
  2. Started-off a some FH counters... Right away, I felt the vibrations, a lot more than I usually do with my 25 year+ old Joyner-H..Even the sound was different...The entire feel was very different...
  3. Then went on to do some light-mid loops...Seemed very very controlled...However, I had to put in some more effort, than before...
  4. Then, I asked my partner to loop/top-spin to my FH, so I could block... Blocking seemed somewhat easier, although my blocks landed higher, as compared to when I would with my Joyner/Neo3/Mark V combo... My FH blocks seemed somewhat more consistent, and my partner would get a bit thrown-off by the lack of speed, on my blocks... So, I'm guessing my setup has some dampening effect on the FH.
  5. I couldn't wait anymore, and asked my partner to switch to BH....Now, I felt it was all down-hill, from here-on... I netted my very first return... and my second, third, fourth.. The fifth one, I managed to put across.
  6. On the sixth one, the ball hit my LP, and bounced right down, onto the table...I'm pretty sure that the blade angle was pretty open.
  7. I could sense the dark clouds gathering right above me...everything turned rather gloomy.
  8. When my partner would push, my returns would go long, if I tried returning with an open-face... Closed a face a bit, and I would net it...'
  9. I'm thinking "NO...NO, this Pogo LP is not at all easy to control as those guys on MyTT made it sound...Pushblocker : grrrrr"
  10. I tried playing strokes/shots, as per the dozens of video and written tutorials/tips/trainings, that I had watched and read many many times, but nothing worked... 
  11. Started playing proper games...
  12. I thought placing the ball would be a easier... No
  13. I thought, pushing the ball would be easier.. No
  14. Blocking (BH)... Not a chance in hell...Those I did manage.. were put away, with relative ease.
  15. Side-swiping.... No cigar...
  16. The Glimmer of hope was the controlled FH.. even those were not as effected, once my partner(s) got used to.
  17. I actually found imy chop/push with the XVE on the FH, to be more consistent, than I did with Pogo on the BH
  18. I lost most of the games/sets, played.. Mind you, this is against players, who I'd typically thrash, even if I didn't bring my A game to the table.
  19. At times, it seemed that my BH was deader and dead.. at times, it felt as if the ball was made of lead(Pb)..
  20. Almost always, when I did manage to put the ball across the net, it was higher, and even these players, could put away...
  21. I can't even begin to imagine, what it would be like to play against players, on the same level as myself, or higher..
  22. Even service returns, went wide... didn't think of it to be insensitive to spin.
  23. I don't think this rubber is meant for chopping, on of off the table.
  24. I tried lightly hitting (as seen in training videos), on Backspins... simply netted the ball each time....
  25. The setup for the BH, seemed like it lacked any juice what-so-ever... 
  26. At the end of play, my elbow hurt a lot more, than it usually did...
At this point, I don't know whether it technique, or whether something is wrong with the setup....

Help!!!!


Posted By: LUCKYLOOP
Date Posted: 03/25/2018 at 1:10am
It is a learning process, takes time.


Go to North Little Rock Table Tennis Group timeline page on Facebook. Read the lengthy introduction, click on the info links.

-------------
Hntr Fl / 4H & BH Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0
Yinhe T-2 / 4H Xiom Sig Pro 2 2.0 BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max
Gam DC / 4H DHS Hurricane 8 39deg 2.1 BH GD CC LP OX
HARDBAT / Hock 3 ply / Frenshp Dr Evil OX


Posted By: haggisv
Date Posted: 03/25/2018 at 1:11am
Playing with long pimples takes a lot of skill, especially at the higher levels (only at the lower levels do you win a lot of cheap points because the opponent does not understand how LPs work). If you expected to learn how to use it in one session, you're very optimistic. I think you need some help from a player that plays with long pimples, to show you how to adjust.


-------------
Smart; VS>401, Dtecs OX
http://tabletennisshop.com.au/index.php?main_page=page&id=42" rel="nofollow - Tenergy Alternatives | http://tabletennis-reviews.com" rel="nofollow - My TT Articles


Posted By: Veet
Date Posted: 03/25/2018 at 1:53am
Hello,

Thanks for the rather prompt response..

Yes, I do understand that there is a learning curve, and one session is certainly not enough.

Before I got bought the new setup, I tried a  LP setup, of another player, at a different club.. I played with it several times, on various occasions... That was a Dtecs LP on a VKM off or all blade, with a XVE on the FH. The Dtecs, as I have read and been informed, is supposed supposed to be an advanced LP, but I found it much much easier to play with, as compared to my new setup. Which is what I find rather strange..I mean, this new setup, on the BH, seemed unplayable.. Could it be something to do with the way I glued the LPs on?


Posted By: cole_ely
Date Posted: 03/25/2018 at 4:56am
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Pogo was a bouncy hitting pip while dtech is more for blocking.


Posted By: LUCKYLOOP
Date Posted: 03/25/2018 at 9:40am
Originally posted by Veet Veet wrote:

Hello,

Thanks for the rather prompt response..

Yes, I do understand that there is a learning curve, and one session is certainly not enough.

Before I got bought the new setup, I tried a  LP setup, of another player, at a different club.. I played with it several times, on various occasions... That was a Dtecs LP on a VKM off or all blade, with a XVE on the FH. The Dtecs, as I have read and been informed, is supposed supposed to be an advanced LP, but I found it much much easier to play with, as compared to my new setup. Which is what I find rather strange..I mean, this new setup, on the BH, seemed unplayable.. Could it be something to do with the way I glued the LPs on?



Go with another long pip, Globe 979 OX < $10 or Giant Dragon Talon < $20 a clone for Dtecs.

-------------
Hntr Fl / 4H & BH Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0
Yinhe T-2 / 4H Xiom Sig Pro 2 2.0 BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max
Gam DC / 4H DHS Hurricane 8 39deg 2.1 BH GD CC LP OX
HARDBAT / Hock 3 ply / Frenshp Dr Evil OX


Posted By: Veet
Date Posted: 03/25/2018 at 9:58am
Originally posted by cole_ely cole_ely wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Pogo was a bouncy hitting pip while dtech is more for blocking.


When I played with the dtecs + VKM, initially thought it was fast, and, at times a bit difficult to control.. However, I was informed that dtecs is not a beginner friendly LPI. But, trust me, compared to my new setup, I could do everything better with the dtecs and VKM setup, right from the word go, without ever even having played with LPs before.. I could siide-swipe, push, and even hit the odd ball, all with relative ease. Its what convinced me to cross over to the dark side...

Playing with this new setup, at times, made it seem as if the ball was made of heavy lead, and would drop down straight onto the table, after it touched the BH side.... Just very weird...

Is this normal behaviour for this type of setup combo? I'm hoping it's my technique.. I'll play with it tomorrow, once again


Posted By: Veet
Date Posted: 03/25/2018 at 1:06pm
Originally posted by LUCKYLOOP LUCKYLOOP wrote:

[QUOTE=Veet] Hello,

Go with another long pip, Globe 979 OX < $10 or Giant Dragon Talon < $20 a clone for Dtecs.



It's just been 1 day .... 

I was just wondering if this type of behaviour is okay, for an OX rubber on a Defplay..

Apart from Pogo, the Dawei 388D-1 OX too came highly recommended by a lot of players on this thread...So, I bought that one too.. So, if the Pogo JUST does do it for me, I'll change to the 388D-1

But, I think I'll give the pogo some more time, hoping it's just the technique.




Posted By: Veet
Date Posted: 03/25/2018 at 1:27pm
Originally posted by haggisv haggisv wrote:

Playing with long pimples takes a lot of skill, especially at the higher levels (only at the lower levels do you win a lot of cheap points because the opponent does not understand how LPs work). If you expected to learn how to use it in one session, you're very optimistic. I think you need some help from a player that plays with long pimples, to show you how to adjust.

Yep.... I did take into consideration all the above, before I decided to take the plunge... I'm well aware of the learning curve.... I mentioned, right at the beginning of this thread (when I wanted suggestions for LPs), that spin continuation (or reversal), and deception are not my top priorities.. So, I'm not looking for cheap points, against any level of player. 

I didn't go in expecting much anyway, to start off with ....

It's true, apart from just trying them out, I've never really played with LP, for any continued period... However, I've been playing Table Tennis for long enough, to have a slight idea of the general mechanics of the game, and even before buying the LPs, I did a lot of reading, and understating of how LPs work, in particular the Pogo, and the 388D-1 ... but, in practicality, it was nothing like what I had read and understood.  I am simply baffled, by the way this setup was playing yesterday.. It just didn't make sense.


Posted By: Sedis
Date Posted: 03/25/2018 at 1:32pm
What you describe sounds pretty normal for playing with long pips for the first time, however I'm surprised that you found DtecS easy and are having trouble with the Pogo.

Did the DtecS you tried have sponge? 


Posted By: Veet
Date Posted: 03/25/2018 at 1:37pm
Originally posted by Sedis Sedis wrote:

What you describe sounds like pretty normal for playing with long pips for the first time, however I'm surprised that you found DtecS easy and are having trouble with the Pogo.

Did the DtecS you tried have sponge? 

The Dects I tried, was in OX... 

This belonged to a player, at another club... No one, at my club uses LPs, but a fellow-club member, who plays at another club too, mentioned that there's a LP player, at the other club. So, I went there, a couple of time, just to try-out the LP...  

I'm not saying, playing with the Dtecs was a piece of cake, right from the word go. But, even when I netted the ball,or put it long, it was due to the usual reasons, and I understood what I had done wrong, and once I made the required adjustments, it was more playable.. I could swipe, push (over table, and from a bit away from it too), place the ball, at will, and after a couple of failed attempts, even hit. When it didn't work, atleast, I knew why, or what I had done wrong, without much pointing out from any other player. My new setup, seemed a lot more unplayable, no matter what I tried.. No amount adjusting, resulted in the desired shot...

From what I've heard, seen and read, LPs, typically baffle the player on the other side. In my case, I think, I was more baffled than the player, across the table.


Posted By: Pushblocker
Date Posted: 03/25/2018 at 1:50pm
Describe your issues you had when trying the setup.. A video would be helpful to determine what the issue is.. Strokes are quite different with with long pips compared to inverted..

-------------
2010 Florida State Champion

Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon OX with removed glue sheet on backhand


Posted By: Veet
Date Posted: 03/25/2018 at 1:55pm
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Describe your issues you had when trying the setup.. A video would be helpful to determine what the issue is.. Strokes are quite different with with long pips compared to inverted..

Hi Pushblocker,

Thanks for replying... I have described the issues, as well as I could, on page #2 of this thread... 


Posted By: 1dennistt
Date Posted: 03/25/2018 at 10:30pm
Playing lower level players may not be giving you the same quality of ball to play against that you experienced playing at the other club against player who were used to playing against long pips.  I found the hardest players to play against when I was using long pips were the ones who returned balls to me that had little spin for me to work with.  

One thing you could do to compensate for this is use your inverted side to make sure points start out with a good level of spin.  This should help make the long pips perform as you expect and give you fewer unexpected balls from the long pips until you begin to get some feel for what they are capable of.

I know when I play a local 2000+ long pip chopper, I try to keep the spin level at a manageable (for me) level, at least as much as I can.  So begin practice points the same way each time, probably with a heavy chop serve or if you prefer a heavy topspin ball, so you know what will be coming your way.  If you let your opponent start out the point he need to understand what you need to make it a quality practice point.  Cut down the variables as much as possible.  Another possibility would be to practice against a robot, which should give you a very similar ball to work with each time.

Hope this helps.


-------------
Xiom Hayabusa Z+, Donic Bluefire M2 (Black) Max, Spinlord Keiler (Red) 1.8 mm, Wt. 161 gm total weight



Posted By: Veet
Date Posted: 03/27/2018 at 1:05am
Hi,

Yesterday, I Had a pretty long session, with various players, who play at my level. Plus, I also invited the Dtecs player, from the other club, and he obliged.

I just put whatever I had read/watched/learnt, about playing with LP, in a small box, and stashed it away, way way at the back of my brain...


What I realized, is that, if I stay close (closer than I normally would), to the table, I could get the ball over the net... Plus, keeping the bat vertical(perpendicular to the table) did not help.. It worked, if I kept the bat angle more horizontal (parallel to the table), not completely, but towards.. 

It was much better than yesterday, I managed to get the ball over the net, for most parts..However, now the issue was getting the ball to stay low, and effective, cause most of them got put away, with relative ease. I even managed to chop,a bit away from the table.. However, I'm not too how much back-spin was generated, if any at all...I think, most of the time, I was just floating the ball. Once again, the bat angle was more towards horizontal ...weird.... just weird... 

The swipe which I was hoping would be my bread-n-butter shot - I just could not get right, no matter what I tried.. no matter, what adjustment I made..

Although, I did manage to keep the ball in play, I had a tough time controlling it, and moving it around, at will..Also, blocking with the LP, seemed impossible, with the ball simply plonking onto the table.

Also, rolling the ball on the BH, did not work.. However, I'm not too sure, if LPs, in general, like that..

Oddly, I won some easy points, when I served with my LP - especially, if I served to my opponents FH, using a side-spin/backspin type serving action. A lot of times, the return to me, was high (smack..smack...smackity smack), or more oddly, they would return wide, to their FH itself... 

When I played against the dtecs, I got massacred. This is probably cause I have no knowledge of LP  vs LP.. Later-on we swapped racquets, and even the Dtecs player had a tough time, playing with my setup. He requested that we swap back... He suggested that I try a LP with some sponge, perhaps 0.5.

The one thing I must say - This LP produces some insane knuckle-balls (mid-air wobble), on almost all shots.. However, it did not seem to bother most players.

The FH, seems a lot more controlled, while countering, looping/top-spinning, over table pushing.. I could produce some nice, curvy top-spins. This FH combo gives me the confidence to smack my opponents top-spins... On the flip-side, blocking top-spins, seems harder (than it did with my old Joyner/Neo3 combo), with the ball, almost always, flying-off long..I guess, I need to close the bat angle, a bit, than I'm used to... 

All-in-all, I feel, the sheer lack of pace, due to this setup, caused some trouble for my opponents, and some, for me too..





Posted By: Pushblocker
Date Posted: 03/27/2018 at 2:39pm
Veet,

the strokes with pips are nothing like the strokes with any other type of rubber.. It's similar to how you would play with sand paper with the difference that sandpaper does not dampen and slow the speed of the ball when blocking.  I can't talk for others or based on what the "correct" way to use long pips is but what works for me is to not alter the angle of the blade during the stroke.. I always block with 90 degrees off the bounce. If you block behind the table and not over the table, you will need to adjust racket angle.. 90 degrees only works when blocking right off the bounce. Another key issue with long pips is to push aggressive against underspin with a slightly open face racket. When blocking off the bounce, you can almost always block with 90 degree angle. When receiving a spinless ball, this is when it becomes tricky. Some players hit against spinless balls like they would hit with sand paper... 90 degree racket angle  sandpaper attack stroke.. Another option is just to softly push the ball as low and short as possible. Pushing against dead balls creates a floating ball that tends to go long.. So, unless you hit or chop such ball, you can't be aggressive at all as such ball will have no stability due to lack of spin. I wish that I could show you in person.. It's hard to explain the technique via a forum post..
The key is that my type of technique only works well right off the bounce.. If you let the ball get past the end of the table before you strike it, that technique will not work.


-------------
2010 Florida State Champion

Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon OX with removed glue sheet on backhand


Posted By: skip3119
Date Posted: 03/27/2018 at 2:57pm
I use LP, Dawei 388D-1.

During hitting back-and-forth in a game, I lost lots of points when the guy sent me an under-spin ball.
LP is supposed to be less sensitive to spin but not INSENSITVE, lots of my returns go right into the net.



Posted By: Egghead
Date Posted: 03/27/2018 at 3:35pm
Originally posted by skip3119 skip3119 wrote:

I use LP, Dawei 388D-1.

During hitting back-and-forth in a game, I lost lots of points when the guy sent me an under-spin ball.
LP is supposed to be less sensitive to spin but not INSENSITVE, lots of my returns go right into the net.

You need to open your blade according or do a hard push. You cannot blindfoldedly hit the ball LOLLOLLOLLOLLOL


-------------
Aurora ST: Rhyzm / Talent OX


Posted By: skip3119
Date Posted: 03/27/2018 at 3:41pm
Originally posted by Egghead Egghead wrote:

Originally posted by skip3119 skip3119 wrote:

I use LP, Dawei 388D-1.
During hitting back-and-forth in a game, I lost lots of points when the guy sent me an under-spin ball.
LP is supposed to be less sensitive to spin but not INSENSITVE, lots of my returns go right into the net.
You need to open your blade according or do a hard push. You cannot blindfoldedly hit the ball LOLLOLLOLLOLLOL
====================
Saw pushblocker's advice:
Another key issue with long pips is to push aggressive against underspin with a slightly open face racket.
------------------
More or less the same as your advice.
Got to push aggressively.


Posted By: bbkon
Date Posted: 03/28/2018 at 12:13am
Originally posted by Veet Veet wrote:

Originally posted by Sedis Sedis wrote:


What you describe sounds like pretty normal for playing with long pips for the first time, however I'm surprised that you found <span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">DtecS easy and are having trouble with the Pogo.</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">
</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">Did the </span><span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">DtecS you tried have sponge? </span>


The Dects I tried, was in OX... 

This belonged to a player, at another club... No one, at my club uses LPs, but a fellow-club member, who plays at another club too, mentioned that there's a LP player, at the other club. So, I went there, a couple of time, just to try-out the LP...  

I'm not saying, playing with the Dtecs was a piece of cake, right from the word go. But, even when I netted the ball,or put it long, it was due to the usual reasons, and I understood what I had done wrong, and once I made the required adjustments, it was more playable.. I could swipe, push (over table, and from a bit away from it too), place the ball, at will, and after a couple of failed attempts, even hit. When it didn't work, atleast, I knew why, or what I had done wrong, without much pointing out from any other player. My new setup, seemed a lot more unplayable, no matter what I tried.. No amount adjusting, resulted in the desired shot...

From what I've heard, seen and read, LPs, typically baffle the player on the other side. In my case, I think, I was more baffled than the player, across the table.



is there any LP more dangerous or gives harder balls than Dtects?


Posted By: Veet
Date Posted: 03/28/2018 at 12:29am
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Veet,

I always block with 90 degrees off the bounce. If you block behind the table and not over the table, you will need to adjust racket angle.. 90 degrees only works when blocking right off the bounce. Another key issue with long pips is to push aggressive against underspin with a slightly open face racket. When blocking off the bounce, you can almost always block with 90 degree angle. 

Hi Oliver,

I've watched your match-play videos, and I've observed how close to the table, you play... Same for the 90 degree racquet angle. The thing is - I feel I play close'ish to the table, however, I think you play a lot closer, and I do...So, when I moved more close to the table, I did manage to get the balls over the net, but not with the racquet at 90 degrees...But then, that kind of messed with my FH top-spinning/looping, due to how close I was to the table...


Posted By: Veet
Date Posted: 03/28/2018 at 12:30am
Originally posted by bbkon bbkon wrote:

 is there any LP more dangerous or gives harder balls than Dtects?

Giant Dragon Talon, from what I read/hear, comes-in a close second...some say, it's very similar to the Dtecs


Posted By: pgpg
Date Posted: 03/28/2018 at 8:13am
Originally posted by Veet Veet wrote:

Originally posted by bbkon bbkon wrote:

 is there any LP more dangerous or gives harder balls than Dtects?

Giant Dragon Talon, from what I read/hear, comes-in a close second...some say, it's very similar to the Dtecs

Rubber still does not play by itself, so I would not expect miracles on Day 1 with any of them. 


-------------
USATT: 1700
Sword 309 - T05 - Dornenglanz OX


Posted By: Veet
Date Posted: 03/28/2018 at 8:57am
Originally posted by pgpg pgpg wrote:

Rubber still does not play by itself, so I would not expect miracles on Day 1 with any of them. 

I, obviously, I don't expect any miracles... not only on day 1, not ever..... I understand, that there would be a learning curve.

So, even before buying my setup, or trying the Dtecs, I did a lot of reading-up on LPs, watching training videos etc...even observing the Dtecs player...getting some pointers from him.

Then, I tried the Dtecs, and although, I found it difficult to control initially, it wasn't like (as difficult) how it was with my setup.. The Dtecs just seemed more playable..  My setup just felt weird.


Posted By: LUCKYLOOP
Date Posted: 03/28/2018 at 9:56am

When I first started playing with long pips I used a pips I felt comfortable. I initially started with GD Talon but couldn't control it.

-------------
Hntr Fl / 4H & BH Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0
Yinhe T-2 / 4H Xiom Sig Pro 2 2.0 BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max
Gam DC / 4H DHS Hurricane 8 39deg 2.1 BH GD CC LP OX
HARDBAT / Hock 3 ply / Frenshp Dr Evil OX


Posted By: benfb
Date Posted: 03/28/2018 at 11:43am
Originally posted by skip3119 skip3119 wrote:

I use LP, Dawei 388D-1.

During hitting back-and-forth in a game, I lost lots of points when the guy sent me an under-spin ball.
LP is supposed to be less sensitive to spin but not INSENSITVE, lots of my returns go right into the net.

One of my clubmates who chops and blocks with LP recently switched to Dawai Magic Kingdom 388D-1.  It seems to the rest of us that his game picked up about a hundred rating points.  Chops and blocks both seem to have much stronger spin reversal than before and his ability to punch with it is much more dangerous.  The pips seem very slick, like in the old days when true slick LP rubbers were still legal.  It seems like a very potent rubber.

And the packaging (which is mostly in Chinese) has an emblem that says "Light curing certification".  What's that?


Posted By: pgpg
Date Posted: 03/28/2018 at 12:04pm
Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

Originally posted by skip3119 skip3119 wrote:

I use LP, Dawei 388D-1.

During hitting back-and-forth in a game, I lost lots of points when the guy sent me an under-spin ball.
LP is supposed to be less sensitive to spin but not INSENSITVE, lots of my returns go right into the net.

One of my clubmates who chops and blocks with LP recently switched to Dawai Magic Kingdom 388D-1.  It seems to the rest of us that his game picked up about a hundred rating points.  Chops and blocks both seem to have much stronger spin reversal than before and his ability to punch with it is much more dangerous.  The pips seem very slick, like in the old days when true slick LP rubbers were still legal.  It seems like a very potent rubber.

And the packaging (which is mostly in Chinese) has an emblem that says "Light curing certification".  What's that?

Most likely it means they were treated... Does it even have ITTF stamp? 


-------------
USATT: 1700
Sword 309 - T05 - Dornenglanz OX


Posted By: skip3119
Date Posted: 03/28/2018 at 12:58pm
Can not find this rubber on eBay:
Dawai Magic Kingdom 388D-1
===============

However, I found this.
But it is "Pips Kingdom", not Magic Kingdom".

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dawei-388D-1-OX-Long-Pimples-Table-Tennis-Rubber-Sale/172287816156?hash=item281d2771dc:m:mqxl6OYOB5I9rzv4f63eCLw" rel="nofollow - https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dawei-388D-1-OX-Long-Pimples-Table-Tennis-Rubber-Sale/172287816156?hash=item281d2771dc:m:mqxl6OYOB5I9rzv4f63eCLw



Posted By: Egghead
Date Posted: 03/28/2018 at 1:17pm
Originally posted by skip3119 skip3119 wrote:

Can not find this rubber on eBay:

Dawai Magic Kingdom 388D-1
Did he mean the treated 338D-1 from taobao ? Wink
 
There are many versions of 338D-1 Dead 




then, there are couple more expensive versions:





-------------
Aurora ST: Rhyzm / Talent OX


Posted By: Egghead
Date Posted: 03/28/2018 at 1:29pm
Originally posted by pgpg pgpg wrote:

Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

One of my clubmates who chops and blocks with LP recently switched to Dawai Magic Kingdom 388D-1.  It seems to the rest of us that his game picked up about a hundred rating points.  Chops and blocks both seem to have much stronger spin reversal than before and his ability to punch with it is much more dangerous.  The pips seem very slick, like in the old days when true slick LP rubbers were still legal.  It seems like a very potent rubber.

And the packaging (which is mostly in Chinese) has an emblem that says "Light curing certification".  What's that?

Most likely it means they were treated... Does it even have ITTF stamp? 
They are the treated rubbers from taobao; however, unlike efforter's LP rubber, I read somewhere that ITTF cannot ban them unless ITTF changes the rule.




-------------
Aurora ST: Rhyzm / Talent OX


Posted By: skip3119
Date Posted: 03/28/2018 at 1:56pm
Originally posted by Egghead Egghead wrote:

They are the treated rubbers from taobao; however, unlike efforter's LP rubber, I read somewhere that ITTF cannot ban them unless ITTF changes the rule.


=======================

Where can I buy this rubber?




Posted By: mhnh007
Date Posted: 03/28/2018 at 2:12pm
Originally posted by skip3119 skip3119 wrote:

=======================

Where can I buy this rubber?


LOL even Skip is tempted.  Count me in, can't overlook a 100 point improvement Smile.


Posted By: Egghead
Date Posted: 03/28/2018 at 4:18pm
Originally posted by mhnh007 mhnh007 wrote:

Originally posted by skip3119 skip3119 wrote:

=======================

Where can I buy this rubber?


LOL even Skip is tempted.  Count me in, can't overlook a 100 point improvement Smile.

taobao has them; there are 2 "light curing certification" treated LPs (388D-1 and saviga). Unlike other treated LPs, those treated LPs are as durable as the org. LPs. I played with both LPs. Ya, at least 100~200 pts sound is about right.


-------------
Aurora ST: Rhyzm / Talent OX


Posted By: skip3119
Date Posted: 03/28/2018 at 4:37pm
Originally posted by Egghead Egghead wrote:

Originally posted by mhnh007 mhnh007 wrote:

Originally posted by skip3119 skip3119 wrote:

=======================
Where can I buy this rubber?
LOL even Skip is tempted.  Count me in, can't overlook a 100 point improvement Smile.

taobao has them; there are 2 "light curing certification" treated LPs (388D-1 and saviga). Unlike other treated LPs, those treated LPs are as durable as the org. LPs. I played with both LPs. Ya, at least 100~200 pts sound is about right.
=================
at least 100~200 pts sound is about right.
-----------------------------
Sounds attractive to me.

Link to buy it?


Posted By: skip3119
Date Posted: 03/28/2018 at 5:03pm
Found it.
Cost:  $6.39 

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.62.7904559cvMQvF3&id=546393786912&ns=1&abbucket=17#detail" rel="nofollow - https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.62.7904559cvMQvF3&id=546393786912&ns=1&abbucket=17#detail


Posted By: Egghead
Date Posted: 03/28/2018 at 5:37pm
Originally posted by skip3119 skip3119 wrote:

Found it.
Cost:  $6.39 

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.62.7904559cvMQvF3&id=546393786912&ns=1&abbucket=17#detail" rel="nofollow - https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.62.7904559cvMQvF3&id=546393786912&ns=1&abbucket=17#detail
Did you buy items from taobao before? It is a little troublesome Tongue

same seller Tongue
http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.1-c.w4004-15641183926.3.7e882e3dD4maOP&id=554286925975" rel="nofollow - https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.1-c.w4004-15641183926.3.7e882e3dD4maOP&id=554286925975


-------------
Aurora ST: Rhyzm / Talent OX


Posted By: skip3119
Date Posted: 03/28/2018 at 6:28pm
Egghead is smart. He knew I would run into problems.

Took me quite a while just to register.

Even when I am a Chinese (know only traditional Chinese, not simplified Chinese),
I am unsuccessful to do check out.

It never takes me to enter my credit card #.

Failed, I am unable to order it. (I wanted to buy two sheets, but failed at check out.)

*** 2 sheets, include shipping is 100 yuan (about 15 USD, or $15.) Not expensive, 
*** but failed during check-out.  Will try again some time. Spent 2 hours on this already. I think.



Posted By: Egghead
Date Posted: 03/28/2018 at 6:57pm
Originally posted by skip3119 skip3119 wrote:

Egghead is smart. He knew I would run into problems.

Took me quite a while just to register.

Even when I am a Chinese (know only traditional Chinese, not simplified Chinese),
I am unsuccessful to do check out.

It never takes me to enter my credit card #.

Failed, I am unable to order it. (I wanted to buy two sheets, but failed at check out.)

*** 2 sheets, include shipping is 100 yuan (about 15 USD, or $15.) Not expensive, 
*** but failed during check-out.  Will try again some time. Spent 2 hours on this. I think.

At first, you need to open an Alipay account (a.k.a china paypal, 支付寶), then you can pay your lp rubbers with Alipay at taobao. While you are ordering your LP rubbers, you will need to arrange the consolidated shipping forwarding service provider (海外集運, you can use the taobao's provider) as well。It is not wise to order only 2 lp sheets. It is because the shipping cost for the 1st kg to NA. is ~25 usd.

read the following :)
http://www.howtotao.com/buy-from-taobao/" rel="nofollow - http://www.howtotao.com/buy-from-taobao/


-------------
Aurora ST: Rhyzm / Talent OX


Posted By: skip3119
Date Posted: 03/28/2018 at 6:57pm
I may just forget about it, too much trouble to order this rubber.

eBay does not have this "light curing 388D-1" rubber.


Posted By: mhnh007
Date Posted: 03/28/2018 at 7:07pm
To buy from taobao you need an agent. Do a search on YouTube to find out how. It maybe best to buy a big patch and share with forum members.


Posted By: Egghead
Date Posted: 03/28/2018 at 7:49pm
Originally posted by mhnh007 mhnh007 wrote:

To buy from taobao you need an agent. Do a search on YouTube to find out how. It maybe best to buy a big patch and share with forum members.
You did not need an agent now. Taobao has Taobao global consolidated shipping (Taobao direct ???)

HOW TO BUY FROM TAOBAO


-------------
Aurora ST: Rhyzm / Talent OX


Posted By: skip3119
Date Posted: 03/28/2018 at 8:08pm
Originally posted by mhnh007 mhnh007 wrote:

To buy from taobao you need an agent. Do a search on YouTube to find out how. It maybe best to buy a big patch and share with forum members.
====================

mhnh007:  Thanks.  You have helped.

Agent:  https://www.86daigou.com/
Ordered 5 sheets.  Cost:  $32.26  ($6.45 per sheet. not expensive at all.)
Paid with Paypal.

Unsure if there is any additional charge later, from the Agent.
Unsure if Agent will mail the rubber to me as soon as they receive it.
(I don't have any other order for the Agent to consolidate them for shipping.)
Or I have to contact the Agent and ask them to send it to me.

Anyway, the order was placed around 7:45 PM on 3-28-2018.
When I will be able to receive the rubber?  I don't know.

Rubber ordered:
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.62.7904559cvMQvF3&id=546393786912&ns=1&abbucket=17#detail" rel="nofollow - https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.62.7904559cvMQvF3&id=546393786912&ns=1&abbucket=17#detail




Posted By: nachalnik
Date Posted: 03/28/2018 at 8:16pm
Guys, if you receive this stuff, can I buy one from you? Thanks



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