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For fun only, estimate these kids' USATT ratings.

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Topic: For fun only, estimate these kids' USATT ratings.
Posted By: skip3119
Subject: For fun only, estimate these kids' USATT ratings.
Date Posted: 06/12/2018 at 3:36pm

Please estimate these kids' (one boy and one girl) USATT ratings.
There will be no correct or wrong answer, they have never played in the USA.
Just for fun.

Boy:  Sora Matsushima (松岛辉空)
https://youtu.be/PNtj0aV4zz0" rel="nofollow - ttps://youtu.be/PNtj0aV4zz0
https://youtu.be/StDB1Df3rOo" rel="nofollow - ttps://youtu.be/StDB1Df3rOo    Against Ho Kwan Kit (#2 player in HKG, behind Wong Chun Ting.)

Girl:  HARIMOTO Miwa  (張本美和)
Harimoto Tomokazu’s younger sister (hair tie is in red color.)
https://youtu.be/rshYi38a0gc" rel="nofollow - https://youtu.be/rshYi38a0gc






Replies:
Posted By: hunkeelin
Date Posted: 06/12/2018 at 7:13pm
Originally posted by skip3119 skip3119 wrote:

Please estimate these kids' (one boy and one girl) USATT ratings.
There will be no correct or wrong answer, they have never played in the USA.
Just for fun.

Boy:
https://youtu.be/PNtj0aV4zz0" rel="nofollow - ttps://youtu.be/PNtj0aV4zz0
https://youtu.be/StDB1Df3rOo" rel="nofollow - ttps://youtu.be/StDB1Df3rOo    Against Ho Kwan Kit

Girl:  Harimoto’s younger sister (hair tie is in red color.)
HARIMOTO Miwa  張本美和
https://youtu.be/rshYi38a0gc" rel="nofollow - https://youtu.be/rshYi38a0gc




Can't tell, the boy kid is easily 2500+. Normally, rally-wise the kid have physical limitation and one would rate him between 2100~2300. However, this kid have the deadliest serve I've seen his age. it's low, spinny, and fast; and and on top of that he's a lefty. 


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FH: h3 2.2 39
t05: 2.1
viscaria: 93g


Posted By: Matt Pimple
Date Posted: 06/12/2018 at 8:03pm
Originally posted by hunkeelin hunkeelin wrote:

Anyone who thinks the kid is below that have 0 idea about TT.

And you are some sort of an authority on TT?!

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Alser Allround 5 ST; DHS H3 Neo 2.1, Dr. Neubauer ABS2 2.5

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55835&title=feed-back-for-matt-pimple" rel="nofollow - My Feedback


Posted By: hunkeelin
Date Posted: 06/12/2018 at 8:12pm
Originally posted by Matt Pimple Matt Pimple wrote:

Originally posted by hunkeelin hunkeelin wrote:

Anyone who thinks the kid is below that have 0 idea about TT.

And you are some sort of an authority on TT?!

yes. SmileSmileSmile. Dw, no flame war i edited my original post. 


-------------
FH: h3 2.2 39
t05: 2.1
viscaria: 93g


Posted By: skip3119
Date Posted: 06/13/2018 at 12:03am
There is one estimate of the boy:  2100-2300.

No estimate on that little girl?  She is going to cry.  She is not that weak.

I am a 1700 player, bouncing up and down - but always close to 1700 most of the time.

Honestly, this is what I think:
That little girl can beat me. (You may think I am full of it, just some BS.  But I honestly believe it.)
That little boy can beat me real real BAD, I don't have a chance.

My estimate:
Girl:  about 1900
Boy:  about 2400



Posted By: mickd
Date Posted: 06/13/2018 at 12:26am
Not a rating estimate because I'd have no idea.. but in the video Harimoto Miwa is in year 1. Her opponent is in year 2.

I think they said last year as a kindergarten kid, she came 3rd.

It's also worth noting that those are special tables, 10cm lower than your regular table.

After she won she was interviewed and said that she was happy to win, that she wants to be a player like her brother, and she's aiming to play in the Olympics.


Posted By: Argothman
Date Posted: 06/13/2018 at 1:25am
To those possibly underrating the boy: what do you think it takes to average almost 9 points a game vs the 37th ranked player in the world?


Posted By: balldance
Date Posted: 06/13/2018 at 1:49am
Originally posted by Argothman Argothman wrote:

To those possibly underrating the boy: what do you think it takes to average almost 9 points a game vs the 37th ranked player in the world?


agree. the boy is easily 2600+. Yes, he's that good, it's not a matter of age.


Posted By: balldance
Date Posted: 06/13/2018 at 1:51am
Originally posted by skip3119 skip3119 wrote:

There is one estimate of the boy:  2100-2300.



I think the first estimate is 2500+


Posted By: mickd
Date Posted: 06/13/2018 at 2:21am
Originally posted by Argothman Argothman wrote:

To those possibly underrating the boy: what do you think it takes to average almost 9 points a game vs the 37th ranked player in the world?

There was only one estimate, and I can't say if 2500+ would be underestimating him so badly to be called underrating.

I think skip mistakenly put 2100-2300!


Posted By: Argothman
Date Posted: 06/13/2018 at 2:27am
Originally posted by mickd mickd wrote:

Originally posted by Argothman Argothman wrote:

To those possibly underrating the boy: what do you think it takes to average almost 9 points a game vs the 37th ranked player in the world?

There was only one estimate, and I can't say if 2500+ would be underestimating him so badly to be called underrating.

I think skip mistakenly put 2100-2300!

perhaps! I'm not calling out anyone in particular, but I have a sneaking suspicion that many who view this thread and watch him play would be quick to underestimate him!


Posted By: TTslurp
Date Posted: 06/13/2018 at 2:38am
How old is the boy?


Posted By: mickd
Date Posted: 06/13/2018 at 2:56am
He's 11 years old! Very very impressive 11 year old!


Posted By: TTslurp
Date Posted: 06/13/2018 at 5:51am
Thx. Agree.


Posted By: bars
Date Posted: 06/13/2018 at 5:50pm
would dan seemiller win vs the kid right now/ at 50? i think he would


Posted By: mickd
Date Posted: 06/13/2018 at 9:21pm
Do you mean the boy or the girl? I would be very impressed if a 64 year could beat that boy.. I haven't seen him play though, so sorry for my ignorance if he could :)!


Posted By: skip3119
Date Posted: 06/13/2018 at 9:53pm
Originally posted by mickd mickd wrote:

Do you mean the boy or the girl? I would be very impressed if a 64 year could beat that boy.. I haven't seen him play though, so sorry for my ignorance if he could :)!
===============
You got Dan Seemiller's age right, he is 64 (not 50 as previous poster said.)


Posted By: skip3119
Date Posted: 06/13/2018 at 10:31pm
No one wants to give an estimate of that little girl's USATT rating.
Well, she is going to play Japan's T League.
Don't know how old is she?  May be Mickd can find out.
(To me, she looks like about 7 years old.)

Kinoshita Group (Kanagawa)
Yui Hamamoto (unconfirmed)
Mitsuki Morizono (unconfirmed)
Miwa Harimoto (unconfirmed)


Posted By: mickd
Date Posted: 06/13/2018 at 10:45pm
Originally posted by skip3119 skip3119 wrote:

You got Dan Seemiller's age right, he is 64 (not 50 as previous poster said.)

I googled some of his matches. I have to say I'm very impressed! Based on the video of the kid above though, I think the kid will win only because he plays the angles a lot, which is generally what gets Dan because of his age. But the problem with the above videos are they are highlight points.


As for Miwa's rating, all I can say is that I'd lose to her hehe. I don't have a rating, though. Maybe 2 years ago I'd have a chance :)


Posted By: Basquests
Date Posted: 06/14/2018 at 8:08am
Originally posted by mickd mickd wrote:

Do you mean the boy or the girl? I would be very impressed if a 64 year could beat that boy.. I haven't seen him play though, so sorry for my ignorance if he could :)!


Even in Nz, we have some 69 yo long pips masters, who can win around 30 or 40% of their matches against our entire 4 man team that went to world team champs. I dont knkw the US system, but they cant be worse than 2300 conservatively. Give an 11 yo long pips to play against, played at a high level, they wont win the first few matches for sure.


Posted By: mickd
Date Posted: 06/14/2018 at 8:52am
That's really impressive. Do you know any of their names? Or have any videos of those matches? Between 64 and 69 is an even bigger difference. Would love to see some of their play. I was already really impressed with Dan's.

I've seen 70+ year olds here that probably play at like 2100ish level. These aren't pro players though, just amateur players who have been coached and playing for like 50+ years.

I haven't seen the NZ national team, but I'm sure they're much higher than 2300, too.


Posted By: skip3119
Date Posted: 06/14/2018 at 10:11am
mickd:

See if you can find out how old is Miwa Harimoto.
Take your time.

Btw, beside her parents, she also has a brother who can practice and coach her.


Posted By: mickd
Date Posted: 06/14/2018 at 10:18am
Sure. She was born on the 16th of June, 2008. So she'll be 10 in 2 days!

I saw a video about her the other day. She has a full time coach from China. You can see the coach in the bench in her videos online. The coach looks around late 20s. I forgot exactly what they said in the video, but something like the coach was first in China when she was 11ish, but then moved to Japan for high school or something (don't quote me on this).

She's probably gaining like 100+ rating points per year!


Posted By: pongfugrasshopper
Date Posted: 06/14/2018 at 10:32am
Originally posted by mickd mickd wrote:

Not a rating estimate because I'd have no idea.. but in the video Harimoto Miwa is in year 1. Her opponent is in year 2.

I think they said last year as a kindergarten kid, she came 3rd.

It's also worth noting that those are special tables, 10cm lower than your regular table.

After she won she was interviewed and said that she was happy to win, that she wants to be a player like her brother, and she's aiming to play in the Olympics.

Man those kindergarteners are scary LOLLOLLOL


Posted By: GMan4911
Date Posted: 06/14/2018 at 11:07am
Here are more current videos of Miwa.  She has upped her game considerably since the video in the first post.







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OSP Ultimate II, FH/Xiom Omega VII Asia Max BH/Omega VII Asia Max
OSP Virtuoso+, FH/ITC Powercell Ultra 48 Max BH/Powercell Ultra 48 Max


Posted By: mickd
Date Posted: 06/14/2018 at 11:15am
Yep! Off memory in the video about her I saw, her teacher also said she was the tallest girl in her class. I guess they have taller genes too (for Asians). Her brother is also pretty tall!


Posted By: Basquests
Date Posted: 06/14/2018 at 12:04pm
Originally posted by mickd mickd wrote:

That's really impressive. Do you know any of their names? Or have any videos of those matches? Between 64 and 69 is an even bigger difference. Would love to see some of their play. I was already really impressed with Dan's.

I've seen 70+ year olds here that probably play at like 2100ish level. These aren't pro players though, just amateur players who have been coached and playing for like 50+ years.

I haven't seen the NZ national team, but I'm sure they're much higher than 2300, too.


No video of those matches. I bought a nice, yet inexpensive tripod from amazon, so ill try training it on him in the upcoming tournaments when he plays the young(er) fellas. That stuffs inspirational to me.

Theres a few short videos of the older guy playing vets, but those games hes playing way down to the level of players who he should be beating 11-3.he looks terrible in those vids conseq. Its all very slow paced as vets arent too intense when theres a skill disparity.

The videos are there of the juniors say when they were 15, whereas they are 19 or 20 now, playing the other juniors. Very few of them playing in the past 2 or 3 years, but yes, it seems im overestimating what 2000 or 2300 is.

There is a nice fella whose 14 and going to the youth Olympics, he won oceania u21 which you could watch. Nathan xu (nzl) vs benjamin gould (aus), hes also ranked #3 in nz!

We also have an 83 yr old whose still competing 10-12 matches in a day, and still be in the top 150 in the country, playing all open events and grades.

Inspiring. Just today i spied a 71 yo whose a fair bit better than me, but far worse than the 69 yo, and i wouldnt be lower than 2000.

In fact, the final for my clubs open last year was that 14 (thrn 13) yo beating the then 68 yo guy! If table tennis had any traction here, such a final of old vs young but yet played at such high tempo and level, wouldve been tv news worthy!


Posted By: skip3119
Date Posted: 06/15/2018 at 1:56am
Acknowledgement:  Miwa's age has been revised because mickd provided more accurate information.  mickd's post is just below this one.

Miwa Harimoto (張本美和), poor little girl, no one even bothered to give her an estimate.
(She is the younger sister of Harimoto Tomokazu.)

Here are two match videos happened shortly before she reached 10 years old.
(So, she was 9 years old in these videos.  She is tall by her age.)
(Miwa's hair has a ponytail)   https://youtu.be/fbgoXRv28QM" rel="nofollow - https://youtu.be/fbgoXRv28QM
(Miwa in pink shirt):   https://youtu.be/SqAliBOGNy4" rel="nofollow - https://youtu.be/SqAliBOGNy4
=====================
Japan Hopes Program - Miwa won 31 matches, and lost only 1 match.
Following story was reported in China, it was written in Chinese:    http://www.sohu.com/a/227825747_785372" rel="nofollow - http://www.sohu.com/a/227825747_785372



Posted By: mickd
Date Posted: 06/15/2018 at 2:14am
You've got her age 1 year more than she is, skip :) She's turning 10 tomorrow in Japan time. So she is 9 in that video.

You can also see her coach, the young looking female with her, throughout those videos.

If I was to guess, I'd put her above 2000, but how much above 2000, I can't say. She'll probably be 2300+ in a year or two, and 2600+ in a few more..


Posted By: skip3119
Date Posted: 06/15/2018 at 2:29am
Originally posted by mickd mickd wrote:

You've got her age 1 year more than she is, skip :) She's turning 10 tomorrow in Japan time. So she is 9 in that video.
You can also see her coach, the young looking female with her, throughout those videos.
If I was to guess, I'd put her above 2000, but how much above 2000, I can't say. She'll probably be 2300+ in a year or two, and 2600+ in a few more..
================
Thanks for the information.
Miwa's age has been revised. (Just 2 posts above this one.)

*** I thought no one would bother to give her an estimate.
*** Many posts above, I did say she could beat me. (I am around 1700.)
*** You put her above 2000. (Oh boy, you agree with me that she can beat me.)


Posted By: mickd
Date Posted: 06/15/2018 at 3:35am
No problem! I think she'll beat me, too. The thing is, I've played non-professionally trained top young kids (around 12 years old) in my prefecture and they all beat me... I know 9 to 12 years old is a big jump in table tennis skill, but Miwa is being trained professionally, and one of the top in her age group in All Japan, so she can probably beat those a few years older than her no problem... And those are the kids I'm already losing to.

Would love to see other people comment though, especially people that actually have a rating (I don't).


Posted By: skip3119
Date Posted: 06/15/2018 at 11:05am
Originally posted by skip3119 skip3119 wrote:

Acknowledgement:  Miwa's age has been revised because mickd provided more accurate information.  mickd's post is just below this one.

Miwa Harimoto (張本美和), poor little girl, no one even bothered to give her an estimate.
(She is the younger sister of Harimoto Tomokazu.)

Here are two match videos happened shortly before she reached 10 years old.
(So, she was 9 years old in these videos.  She is tall by her age.)
(Miwa's hair has a ponytail)   https://youtu.be/fbgoXRv28QM" rel="nofollow - https://youtu.be/fbgoXRv28QM
(Miwa in pink shirt):   https://youtu.be/SqAliBOGNy4" rel="nofollow - https://youtu.be/SqAliBOGNy4
=====================
Japan Hopes Program - Miwa won 31 matches, and lost only 1 match.
Following story was reported in China, it was written in Chinese:    http://www.sohu.com/a/227825747_785372" rel="nofollow - http://www.sohu.com/a/227825747_785372
======================
Bringing the post here, so that folks don't need to hunt for the video.

Skip rated this little girl about 1900.
mickd rated her 2000+.

What's your estimate?


Posted By: bars
Date Posted: 06/16/2018 at 8:52pm
Originally posted by skip3119 skip3119 wrote:

Originally posted by mickd mickd wrote:

Do you mean the boy or the girl? I would be very impressed if a 64 year could beat that boy.. I haven't seen him play though, so sorry for my ignorance if he could :)!

===============
You got Dan Seemiller's age right, he is 64 (not 50 as previous poster said.)


i meant right now at 64 and if not what about at 50.

someone posted about the boys high quality serve and im wondering if someone like danny seemiller would have a problem with it.. since people are saying the boy is 24 25 2600 rating and D.SEEMILLER is 2440.

i imagine seemiller returning serve too well for the boy to angle or kill and he would be dictating the points. i imagine the boy has a simple game. danny(experienced player) would just read it n counter.



Posted By: bars
Date Posted: 06/16/2018 at 9:01pm
girl rating over 2050 trying to push through 2150


Posted By: pongfugrasshopper
Date Posted: 06/16/2018 at 9:38pm
Originally posted by bars bars wrote:

Originally posted by skip3119 skip3119 wrote:

Originally posted by mickd mickd wrote:

Do you mean the boy or the girl? I would be very impressed if a 64 year could beat that boy.. I haven't seen him play though, so sorry for my ignorance if he could :)!

===============
You got Dan Seemiller's age right, he is 64 (not 50 as previous poster said.)


i meant right now at 64 and if not what about at 50.

someone posted about the boys high quality serve and im wondering if someone like danny seemiller would have a problem with it.. since people are saying the boy is 24 25 2600 rating and D.SEEMILLER is 2440.

i imagine seemiller returning serve too well for the boy to angle or kill and he would be dictating the points. i imagine the boy has a simple game. danny(experienced player) would just read it n counter.


Did you not watch him play Ho Kwan Kit who is probably somewhere in the 2800s?  He doesn't have to 3rd ball kill to win the point.  The kid has an array of forehand flicks, backhand flips, very good placement, can counter your first loop easily.  Someone said 2600 earlier which is a reasonable estimate.


Posted By: skip3119
Date Posted: 06/16/2018 at 10:46pm
Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:

Did you not watch him play Ho Kwan Kit who is probably somewhere in the 2800s?  He doesn't have to 3rd ball kill to win the point.  The kid has an array of forehand flicks, backhand flips, very good placement, can counter your first loop easily.  Someone said 2600 earlier which is a reasonable estimate.
==================================

Name of the kid:  Sora Matsushima (松岛辉空).
Here is the full match video, 4 games. Ho Kwan Kit beat the kid, 4-0.
Scores are:  11:6 11:9 11:7 15:13
For 4 games the kid got  6+9+7+13 = 35.  Averaged 8.75 points per game.
ITTF has Ho Kwan Kit as #37 in the world. He is #2 in HKG behind Wong Chun Ting.

(It is my personal opinion, the kid got pretty good back-hand.)
Video, Ho Kwan Kit vs the kid:    https://youtu.be/X_gaqBwvvOE" rel="nofollow - https://youtu.be/X_gaqBwvvOE

** Dan Seemiller is 64 years old. The most recent tournament that he played is on 3-17 to 3-18, 2018.
** Named 54th St. Joseph Valley Open. Post tourney's rating is 2391.




Posted By: bars
Date Posted: 06/17/2018 at 3:22pm
the adult probably let him into points? the kids are amazing.



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