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Have you switched to ABS ball ?

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Topic: Have you switched to ABS ball ?
Posted By: Stavros
Subject: Have you switched to ABS ball ?
Date Posted: 10/05/2018 at 3:44am
I find ABS balls much better. 
Unfortunatelly ,on most official tournaments here , we use old plastic balls instead of ABS balls. 

Have you switched to ABS ball ?




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Blade: Stiga Infinity
FH: Dignics 80
BH: Dignics 05



Replies:
Posted By: vvk1
Date Posted: 10/05/2018 at 4:13am
Same here in UK. Tournaments are sponsored by local TT vendors so, alas, until such vendors sell out their non-ABS ball inventory, we're stuck.


Posted By: jackwong23
Date Posted: 10/05/2018 at 5:39am
Yes, and they are terrible. Massive
reduction in spin and speed which means
you have to put a lot more effort into your topspin strokes.
The day when you kill the rally with 1 or 2 powerful topspin strokes (without boosting) is probably over.


Posted By: DonnOlsen
Date Posted: 10/05/2018 at 6:56am
Hi,

Going back to the beginning of this era, I have found the plastic ball implementation interesting in the USA.  Clearly is recalled what occurred in what I term "the first year of the plastic ball," the ITTF commitment to the new ball in their competitions, the terrible quality in bounce, roundness, and overall consistency.

I said at that time that it will be interesting to see how the equipment ruling class approaches this new era, as the celluloid ball is still legal and approved for competitions everywhere except with the ITTF events.  My incorrect speculation was that, in the USA, the equipment dealers, via their sponsorships of USATT tournaments, would logically and prudently burn through their stock of very high quality 3-star celluloids until these balls were close to extinction, then switch to the new, awful plastics.  I couldn't have been more incorrect, as the USATT tournaments immediately embraced the new plastics, promoting both these awful balls and dust on the plastic ball boxes in their warehouses.  I was more than a little disappointed in this nonsense, considering that the quality status of these new balls was terrible when juxtaposed to the great celluloid balls.

Through the years I've accumulated anecdotal information from a number of non-asian countries on the approach to this situation, finding that, essentially, my prediction of the burn-through-the-celluloids strategy was embraced as described above.  It seems that many countries are just now transitioning to the plastic balls.  

Again, it seems, the USA stood out just when it shouldn't.  This is reminiscent of the USTTA banning of sponge rackets when they were introduced, immediately putting America way behind in table tennis development.  

The USA has consistently demonstrated confidence.

Thanks.   


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Tenergy: Two weeks of heaven, followed by three months of excellence, then, a nice rubber.


Posted By: kakapo
Date Posted: 10/05/2018 at 7:46am
In Belgium leagues, we still use the plastic balls, generally xhushuofa

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Def play grey grip 94gr, Venus 2 blue 2,2, Neubauer KO extreme 1,3mm


Posted By: cftt-blades
Date Posted: 10/05/2018 at 9:21am
I've been using Nittakku 3* Premium 40+ plastic balls since they came out, and they are exceptional.  All of the tournaments I run use them, and most of the tournaments I participate in use them as well unless they are specifically sponsored by a manufacturer (i.e Joola Teams or something like that).  I've found the ABS balls to be far superior to any other previous generation of plastic balls (i.e. seamless Xushaofa balls, which tend to shatter on edge impact, are lighter than ABS balls, and tend to float a lot rather than have a consistent ball flight imho).

I've also tried some other ABS plastic balls since they've come out such as DHS's D40+ ball and Butterfly's A40+ ball and found them both to be acceptable alternatives to Nittaku, though I still feel the Nittakku is the best overall 40+ Ball on the market.



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Chris
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Custom Blade made by me
Donic Bluestorm Z1
Donic Bluestorm Z2


Posted By: Pr1nc
Date Posted: 10/05/2018 at 9:26am
Whats the difference in short between ABS balls and plastic balls?


Posted By: jonyer1980
Date Posted: 10/05/2018 at 9:41am
Same story here. Depending on the area or the seller we one that the seller is interested about selling it. We use from Xushaofa (first& most common) to old gen Butterfly G series or Nittaku Premium or relabelled Xushaofa like Joola Flash. It's a hassle

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Rosewood V FL

Nittaku Fastarc G1-FH

Stiga DNA Pro-S MAX BH


Avoid any Butterfly stuff... at abusive prices. Raw power without control means nothing


Posted By: cftt-blades
Date Posted: 10/05/2018 at 9:54am
Originally posted by Pr1nc Pr1nc wrote:

Whats the difference in short between ABS balls and plastic balls?

ABS is just a different type of plastic, specifically: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acrylonitrile_butadiene_styrene



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Chris
---
Custom Blade made by me
Donic Bluestorm Z1
Donic Bluestorm Z2


Posted By: juanma4080
Date Posted: 10/05/2018 at 10:06am
Where I can find this ABS balls?


Posted By: vvk1
Date Posted: 10/05/2018 at 10:23am
Originally posted by cftt-blades cftt-blades wrote:

I've been using Nittakku 3* Premium 40+ plastic balls since they came out, and they are exceptional.  All of the tournaments I run use them, and most of the tournaments I participate in use them as well unless they are specifically sponsored by a manufacturer (i.e Joola Teams or something like that).  I've found the ABS balls to be far superior to any other previous generation of plastic balls (i.e. seamless Xushaofa balls, which tend to shatter on edge impact, are lighter than ABS balls, and tend to float a lot rather than have a consistent ball flight imho).

I've also tried some other ABS plastic balls since they've come out such as DHS's D40+ ball and Butterfly's A40+ ball and found them both to be acceptable alternatives to Nittaku, though I still feel the Nittakku is the best overall 40+ Ball on the market.


This is it - consistency and predictability of bounce and trajectory is the key reason why ABS balls are superior. 


Posted By: AMonteiro
Date Posted: 10/05/2018 at 10:30am
Originally posted by juanma4080 juanma4080 wrote:

Where I can find this ABS balls?

DHS D40+
TSP CP40+
Donic P40+
San Wei ABS Pro
Joola Prime ABS
Butterfly A40+

and many others..


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Dynaryz AGR /Yasaka Goiabao 5 / Dynaryz AGR


Posted By: Pr1nc
Date Posted: 10/05/2018 at 10:33am
Originally posted by cftt-blades cftt-blades wrote:

Originally posted by Pr1nc Pr1nc wrote:

Whats the difference in short between ABS balls and plastic balls?


ABS is just a different type of plastic, specifically: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acrylonitrile_butadiene_styrene



Thx cftt-blades.

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Blade: Jun Mizutani ZLC
FH: Victas V > 15 Extra
BH: Victas V > 15 Extra


Posted By: TT newbie
Date Posted: 10/05/2018 at 10:35am
I´ve changed to DHS D40+ but 1 star ball is terrible. I only play with 3 star D40+.


Posted By: pgpg
Date Posted: 10/05/2018 at 11:07am
I feel that decision is more or less made for me by tournament organizers: Westchester is now using GEWO ABS ball, Joola Teams is going with Joola Prime flavor of it, so it kind of makes sense to use it in club play as well...

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USATT: ~1810
Butterfly Defense Alpha ST - H3 Neo - Cloud&Fog OX


Posted By: PythonMonty
Date Posted: 10/05/2018 at 11:14am
Originally posted by pgpg pgpg wrote:

Westchester is now using GEWO ABS ball...

Does this ball (Gewo Select Pro 40+) play like D40+ and other similar ABS balls?


Posted By: pgpg
Date Posted: 10/05/2018 at 11:19am
Originally posted by PythonMonty PythonMonty wrote:

Originally posted by pgpg pgpg wrote:

Westchester is now using GEWO ABS ball...

Does this ball (Gewo Select Pro 40+) play like D40+ and other similar ABS balls?

I was told it's the same ball as DHS D40+, made in the same factory. Color was a bit different, IMHO, with a yellowish tint, but it played similar, at least to me. 


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USATT: ~1810
Butterfly Defense Alpha ST - H3 Neo - Cloud&Fog OX


Posted By: Tinykin
Date Posted: 10/05/2018 at 12:53pm
Originally posted by vvk1 vvk1 wrote:

Same here in UK. Tournaments are sponsored by local TT vendors so, alas, until such vendors sell out their non-ABS ball inventory, we're stuck.


Not for all UK tournaments. For English tournaments, this was announced by TTE on 15 Aug 18:

The London-based company were chosen following a tender process and will supply Sanwei ABS Pro 40+ 3*** balls for the following competitions:

  • PG Mutual National Championships
  • PG Mutual Cadet & Junior National Championships
  • PG Mutual U10-U13 National Championships
  • Senior British League
  • County Championships
  • National Junior League and National Cadet League
  • National Cups (U12, Cadet and Junior)



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Blade:
Darker Speed90
Rubber Fh and Bh DHS Hurricane 3, 39/38deg

Delusion is an asset


Posted By: DonnOlsen
Date Posted: 10/05/2018 at 1:10pm
Hi,

So, with the Butterfly announcement of the A40+, it appears, at the 3 star level, we have before us a bicameral world:  Nittaku 3 star 40+ Premium and the ABS space.

Thanks.


-------------
Tenergy: Two weeks of heaven, followed by three months of excellence, then, a nice rubber.


Posted By: Bran
Date Posted: 10/05/2018 at 1:24pm
Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

Again, it seems, the USA stood out just when it shouldn't.

Not quite. In Europe, smaller federations such as Belgium or England have switched very early on, with the first new balls tournaments being played in 2014.

Larger federations like France or Germany took longer, likely due to inertia and logistics involved within the many clubs.


Posted By: igorponger
Date Posted: 10/05/2018 at 1:56pm
DOUBLE Fish V40+ is the cheapest. We like them so much.


Posted By: patelaaaa
Date Posted: 10/05/2018 at 2:16pm
I had purchased butterfly a40+ and played with them. Although they are seamed, bounce is very much similar to Yinhe 3 star seamless. Considering the lightness of these balls, several players at the club have a second opinion to go on a match on A40, and instead opted for nittaku. Good for training, but not so good for a game.   

Being said, my preference goes to DHS D40+. Pretty good for the price, heavier than A40, just a tad little lighter than nittaku, durable with thicker seam and spinwise, as good as nittaku. Probably, you might find one/two eggs in a pack of 10 balls, but $7 for pack of 10 balls is worth it. 


Posted By: vvk1
Date Posted: 10/05/2018 at 2:35pm
Originally posted by Tinykin Tinykin wrote:

Originally posted by vvk1 vvk1 wrote:

Same here in UK. Tournaments are sponsored by local TT vendors so, alas, until such vendors sell out their non-ABS ball inventory, we're stuck.


Not for all UK tournaments. For English tournaments, this was announced by TTE on 15 Aug 18:

The London-based company were chosen following a tender process and will supply Sanwei ABS Pro 40+ 3*** balls for the following competitions:

  • PG Mutual National Championships
  • PG Mutual Cadet & Junior National Championships
  • PG Mutual U10-U13 National Championships
  • Senior British League
  • County Championships
  • National Junior League and National Cadet League
  • National Cups (U12, Cadet and Junior)


IMO, that's not enough and is irrelevant to the over-21 of TTE competition/player members (don't they constitute the majority of TTE's membership?). That list excludes Gran Prix, senior/vets rating 1-2* tournaments. All these still use non-ABS seamless balls. Same most likely applies to the majority of local leagues. Some tournaments still use the old crappy seamed balls precisely because that what the tournament sponsor was magnanimous enough to spare :-(




Posted By: Amine1969
Date Posted: 10/05/2018 at 3:21pm
Rather stick to the usuals yo. Not so sure about these new thingsSmile


Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 10/05/2018 at 3:48pm
Originally posted by Stavros Stavros wrote:

I find ABS balls much better. 
Unfortunatelly ,on most official tournaments here , we use old plastic balls instead of ABS balls. 

Have you switched to ABS ball ?




Yes.  They are infinitely better.  Especially the Nittakus.


Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 10/05/2018 at 3:50pm
Originally posted by patelaaaa patelaaaa wrote:

I had purchased butterfly a40+ and played with them. Although they are seamed, bounce is very much similar to Yinhe 3 star seamless. Considering the lightness of these balls, several players at the club have a second opinion to go on a match on A40, and instead opted for nittaku. Good for training, but not so good for a game.   

Being said, my preference goes to DHS D40+. Pretty good for the price, heavier than A40, just a tad little lighter than nittaku, durable with thicker seam and spinwise, as good as nittaku. Probably, you might find one/two eggs in a pack of 10 balls, but $7 for pack of 10 balls is worth it. 


If you actually weigh them on a balance, the D40+ is a bit heavier than Nittaku Premium (average if 2.73 g vs 2.68 gram for Nittaku).

D40+ is a good ball, especially for the price.  I prefer Nittaku but am perfectly happy to play with D40+.  Nittakus are more consistent in their production quality.


Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 10/05/2018 at 3:51pm
Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

Hi,

So, with the Butterfly announcement of the A40+, it appears, at the 3 star level, we have before us a bicameral world:  Nittaku 3 star 40+ Premium and the ABS space.

Thanks.


Nittaku 3* 40+ premium is an ABS ball, indeed it was the first one on the market (2014).


Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 10/05/2018 at 3:55pm
Originally posted by PythonMonty PythonMonty wrote:

Originally posted by pgpg pgpg wrote:

Westchester is now using GEWO ABS ball...

Does this ball (Gewo Select Pro 40+) play like D40+ and other similar ABS balls?


I haven't played with this particular one, but the odds are great that it is made in the same factory as either D40+ or the Double Fish V40+.  However, Gewo (and the other companies that sell ABS) can stipulate the production standards they will accept for weight, roundness, etc.  By the way, this has been true for a long time now.  Stiga, Tibhar, Donic, etc. etc. don't own their own ball factories (not in the celluloid era and not now).  In fact there are a relatively small number of places where these things are made.  Nittaku has their own facility in Japan (but they have always had a deal with DHS to have them make a cheaper Nittaku ball in China). 

What this all means is that they will probably play pretty similar, but, since Gewo always sells a quality product, there might be a lower percentage of bad ones among the Gewo.

I have posted a lot on this thread and forgot to mention one thing.  A really big advantage of D40+ vs Nittaku is durability.  They last a really long time.  The Nittaku Premium ABS does get shiny on the surface sooner (this was also a feature of their celluloid balls).  So Nittaku starts of playing better (IMHO) but D40+ will stay good longer.


Posted By: Hozuki
Date Posted: 10/05/2018 at 3:58pm
our league is a mess, we play with ABS, seamless AND celluloid, depending on the club and it sucks.


Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 10/05/2018 at 3:59pm
Originally posted by Hozuki Hozuki wrote:

our league is a mess, we play with ABS, seamless AND celluloid, depending on the club and it sucks.


That would drive me insane.  Take heart though.  This can't go on like that forever.  Although to be honest, I am surprised you still find celluloid balls.

Where I live it is 100% ABS.  Nittaku or D40+ for the most part.


Posted By: Hozuki
Date Posted: 10/05/2018 at 6:43pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Originally posted by Hozuki Hozuki wrote:

our league is a mess, we play with ABS, seamless AND celluloid, depending on the club and it sucks.


That would drive me insane.  Take heart though.  This can't go on like that forever.  Although to be honest, I am surprised you still find celluloid balls.

Where I live it is 100% ABS.  Nittaku or D40+ for the most part.


I am trying my best to endure it... This is the last season celluloid is allowed, after that, I hope ABS will prevail. More and more clubs are changing to Gewo Pro Select ABS around here.

Some more detailed thoughts on the balls:
Although the CA / seamless balls retain more spin during flight and on contact with the table, they are bad for brushing the ball and are inconsistent in bounce. ABS is much easier to brush, but weird in the way it interacts with the table. On grippy table surfaces, slow sidespin loops curve away like crazy. Topspin and backspin become much less relevant. In clubs that play with ABS for some time now, hardly anyone pushes with pure backspin any more. The table would just eat it and make the ball bounce high and empty. Sidespin is the new backspin. Choppers will now always chop with sidespin, and sometimes add some back- or top-component to it.
Also, the durability of ABS is not good IMO, because after 2-3 training sessions the ball becomes shiny and non-grippy, producing much less spin - that's when some choppers would throw them in the trash and grab a new one.




Posted By: Tt Gold
Date Posted: 10/05/2018 at 7:40pm
I think it's crazy that the leagues in Germany still haven't made strict regulations about the new ball. We always talk about how the us is so far behind, but they at least switched to plastic balls years ago. The first time I played with abs balls was in July and I really liked them. They don't break as quickly and are actually round.


Posted By: Jackcerry
Date Posted: 10/05/2018 at 7:51pm
In Italy it’s a mess... every team and every tournament is with a different ball... plastic xushaofa, joola flash/ abs Andro, abs tibhar, abs nittaku, abs dhs. Lots of clubs and for national tournaments there is the Stag abs ball


Posted By: Makelele
Date Posted: 10/05/2018 at 7:56pm
I can't believe that someone living in Germany and playing regularly table tennis has hit an ABS ball only in last July. Yes, crazy is the right word.


Posted By: DonnOlsen
Date Posted: 10/05/2018 at 8:48pm
Hi,

[Nittaku 3* 40+ premium is an ABS ball, indeed it was the first one on the market (2014).]

I find it interesting that I missed this.  I think I know the source of my deficiency: I spoke with the top Nittaku representative at the Paris Worlds who had the ball on display but not for sale, as there were not the quantities then.  I recall him saying that Nittaku's goal was to be the premier ball on the market, as they were in the celluloid era.  He stated the material composing the ball was proprietary, patented, and no other manufacturer would be able to use this formula for their balls.  He didn't mention ABS, but ABS was not in the sport's vocabulary broadly then.  It did not dawn on me later that it was an ABS ball, I suppose due to this discussion.

Thanks for the update.


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Tenergy: Two weeks of heaven, followed by three months of excellence, then, a nice rubber.


Posted By: DonnOlsen
Date Posted: 10/05/2018 at 8:51pm
Hi,

For those in the USA, where do you purchase the DHS D40+ balls?

Thanks,


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Tenergy: Two weeks of heaven, followed by three months of excellence, then, a nice rubber.


Posted By: BH-Man
Date Posted: 10/05/2018 at 9:35pm
Originally posted by Jackcerry Jackcerry wrote:

In Italy it’s a mess... every team and every tournament is with a different ball... plastic xushaofa, joola flash/ abs Andro, abs tibhar, abs nittaku, abs dhs. Lots of clubs and for national tournaments there is the Stag abs ball
 

Situation Normal: Government a mess.

Ditto in USA. Literally every club tourney or sanctioned tourney has a different ball with wildy different properties. As long as the ball bounces true, I never really worry, but it isn't the case with each ball.


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Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club
Search for us on Facebook: koreaforeignttc


Posted By: BH-Man
Date Posted: 10/05/2018 at 9:37pm
I call players who want to play ONLY with Nittaku 3* and NOTHING else NBS... Nittaku Ball Snobs.

Sure, the Nittaku Premium 40 is a great ball, I would be fine playing a match using one (as long as it isn't all used and smooth-shiny), but there are other true bouncing balls too.


-------------
Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club
Search for us on Facebook: koreaforeignttc


Posted By: qpskfec
Date Posted: 10/05/2018 at 10:32pm
Originally posted by BH-Man BH-Man wrote:

I call players who want to play ONLY with Nittaku 3* and NOTHING else NBS... Nittaku Ball Snobs.

Sure, the Nittaku Premium 40 is a great ball, I would be fine playing a match using one (as long as it isn't all used and smooth-shiny), but there are other true bouncing balls too.


A few weeks ago after hitting with my regular practice partner, a ball snob asked to hit with me.

I was using an almost new DHS D40+ and the player insisted on switching to Nittaku. Out comes an old, shiny grey ball, with almost all the lettering worn off. I was like ..... wtf? If you are going to be a ball snob, don't whip out a sh..ty one.



Posted By: Tt Gold
Date Posted: 10/06/2018 at 4:18am
Originally posted by BH-Man BH-Man wrote:

I call players who want to play ONLY with Nittaku 3* and NOTHING else NBS... Nittaku Ball Snobs.

Sure, the Nittaku Premium 40 is a great ball, I would be fine playing a match using one (as long as it isn't all used and smooth-shiny), but there are other true bouncing balls too.
I hope this doesn't offend anyone, but I was always wondering what guys like the ones you describe are thinking. For example there were guys in my club that really didn't play better than someone playing in his garage. But whenever someone played with them and only had a two star celluloid ball they always wanted to play with a three star ball. I mean they couldn't even play table tennis, but are basically implying that a two star ball is not good enough for them? Especially in the celluloid era I didn't really care about the brand, as they were all just balls.

Now of course there are big difference between different brands. I've played with a lot of different balls, like joola ( the old shitty one), joola flash, tsp( the newest one), butterfly g40+, gewo p, gewo slp, the slp two star training ball, andro poly s training ball, 2s training ball, gewo slp( newest one), the two star version of that( which is really good actually), tibhar( the first one), dhs ( newest one), yinhe and xushuofa. And nowadays I don't care about the differences between the balls. If you have different people to play with and they all got one brand they always play, you'll just get used to the different brands and can quickly adjust.


Posted By: vanjr
Date Posted: 10/06/2018 at 6:34am
Originally posted by qpskfec qpskfec wrote:

Originally posted by BH-Man BH-Man wrote:

I call players who want to play ONLY with Nittaku 3* and NOTHING else NBS... Nittaku Ball Snobs.

Sure, the Nittaku Premium 40 is a great ball, I would be fine playing a match using one (as long as it isn't all used and smooth-shiny), but there are other true bouncing balls too.


A few weeks ago after hitting with my regular practice partner, a ball snob asked to hit with me.

I was using an almost new DHS D40+ and the player insisted on switching to Nittaku. Out comes an old, shiny grey ball, with almost all the lettering worn off. I was like ..... wtf? If you are going to be a ball snob, don't whip out a sh..ty one.



So did you hit with the old nittaku? I prefer any new or nearly new plastic ball over old bald balls. I would have said no.


Posted By: Simas
Date Posted: 10/08/2018 at 7:22am
Not from US, but it ships worldwide

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Bonus-Pack-10-Balls-Box-Newest-DHS-3-Star-D40-Table-Tennis-Balls-New-Material-Plastic/1019735_32802682381.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.2.57e84cf6I0Loa5


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Stiga Offensive Classic Legend
DHS Hurricane Neo3
Donic Bluefire JP01 Turbo


Posted By: mykonos96
Date Posted: 10/09/2018 at 12:11am
Originally posted by vanjr vanjr wrote:

Originally posted by qpskfec qpskfec wrote:

Originally posted by BH-Man BH-Man wrote:

I call players who want to play ONLY with Nittaku 3* and NOTHING else NBS... Nittaku Ball Snobs.

Sure, the Nittaku Premium 40 is a great ball, I would be fine playing a match using one (as long as it isn't all used and smooth-shiny), but there are other true bouncing balls too.


A few weeks ago after hitting with my regular practice partner, a ball snob asked to hit with me.

I was using an almost new DHS D40+ and the player insisted on switching to Nittaku. Out comes an old, shiny grey ball, with almost all the lettering worn off. I was like ..... wtf? If you are going to be a ball snob, don't whip out a sh..ty one.



So did you hit with the old nittaku? I prefer any new or nearly new plastic ball over old bald balls. I would have said no.


An old and worn off nittaku is crap worse than other old balls



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