advice on rubbers to use with Liu Shiwen ZLF
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Topic: advice on rubbers to use with Liu Shiwen ZLF
Posted By: colton
Subject: advice on rubbers to use with Liu Shiwen ZLF
Date Posted: 12/27/2018 at 1:36am
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Hi all, I am looking for advice on what rubbers to use with a Liu Shiwen ZLF blade. I am a ~1400 player. My current rubbers are forehand Andro Rasant 1.9, backhand Andro Rasant 1.7. My previous set of rubbers, which I liked a little better for reasons I can't articulate, were these: forehand Xiom Omega IV Europe 2.0; backhand Xiom Omega IV Pro 2.0 I'd say my style is a pretty conservative backhand (lots of push and chop unless they give me topspin or hit it high) coupled with an aggressive forehand (hard topspin hits, but not too much pure looping). Here's a video of me playing another ~1400 player in the finals of a university tournament so you can judge better for yourself if you are willing to watch for a few minutes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBb0-bgDu54. I'm the guy in red and yellow. Can you give me any recommendations? Or even better would be a "price is no object" recommendation coupled with a "best bang for the buck" recommendation. It would be very much appreciated, thanks.
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Replies:
Posted By: serr
Date Posted: 12/27/2018 at 2:53am
| Fh: xiom Vega Asia df; bh: xiom Vega pro |
Posted By: FruitLoop
Date Posted: 12/27/2018 at 5:29am
| Slower blade and Vega Europe 2.0 rubbers. |
Posted By: Pr1nc
Date Posted: 12/27/2018 at 7:02am
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For 'money is no problem' I recommend you Rosewood XO with any 2.0mm allround rubbers like Xiom Vega and smillar. ------------- Blade: Jun Mizutani ZLC FH: Victas V > 15 Extra BH: Victas V > 15 Extra |
Posted By: colton
Date Posted: 12/27/2018 at 1:36pm
| Thanks for the comments. To the last two people, any suggestions if I want to keep my same blade? |
Posted By: Pr1nc
Date Posted: 12/27/2018 at 2:00pm
If you are in love with LS ZLF I understand you because its a great blade. Yes its a little fast for your current level but its a not a big deal because that blade has a lot of control and its a high quality product. Only change your rubbers and enjoy and play your best ;) ------------- Blade: Jun Mizutani ZLC FH: Victas V > 15 Extra BH: Victas V > 15 Extra |
colton wrote:Posted By: colton
Date Posted: 12/27/2018 at 2:06pm
Thanks. Yes, that was my thought--it's a very good blade, and I should be able to grow into it. So rather than changing to a different blade that might fit me a little better right now, and then changing blades again in the future as I get a bit better, I'll just keep using this one. Back to your Xiom Vega recommendation--could you say which version of Xiom Vega would be a better fit for my backhand vs. my forehand?
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Posted By: notfound123
Date Posted: 12/27/2018 at 4:09pm
I would start with Vega Europe ... very nice and forgiving
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Posted By: BRS
Date Posted: 12/27/2018 at 5:16pm
| Actually Rozena might be a reasonable choice. |
Posted By: tom
Date Posted: 12/27/2018 at 5:21pm
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Posted By: Lightzy
Date Posted: 12/27/2018 at 6:35pm
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Yasaka Rakza 7 Soft is also excellent. It will give you a very light setup as well, and the LSW is the best weight-balanced blade I've ever held in my life, so it'll feel very good in the hand and make it easier for you to spin. Say, Rakza7 Soft 2.0 I'd suggest against harder rubbers at this juncture, so no vega pro etc or whatever stuff u get recommended. |
Posted By: colton
Date Posted: 12/27/2018 at 6:47pm
For forehand, backhand, or both?
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Posted By: colton
Date Posted: 12/27/2018 at 6:48pm
Are you recommending T80FX for forehand, backhand, or both?
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Posted By: colton
Date Posted: 12/27/2018 at 6:50pm
(Sorry to be repetitive, everyone.) Are you recommending Rakza7 Soft 2.0 for forehand, backhand, or both?
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Posted By: colton
Date Posted: 12/27/2018 at 6:52pm
Great, my video just got removed due to copyright issue with the background audio track I selected. Sorry about that. I'll have to do a different audio track and get it back up soon.
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Posted By: serr
Date Posted: 12/27/2018 at 7:12pm
| You may want to get a harder rubber on backhand for better pushes and a softer rubber on forehand for easier loops |
Posted By: Lightzy
Date Posted: 12/27/2018 at 10:23pm
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Generally you want a harder rubber for forehand rather than backhand because you can generate more power with forehand whereas the backhand motion is more wristy/flicky but with less power. Generally. But try Rakza7 soft on both sides. It plays very nice and will be incredibly spinny, making you a lot more confident about spin shots. |
Posted By: colton
Date Posted: 12/28/2018 at 11:23am
OK, I reuploaded the video with different audio. Here's the new link: https://youtu.be/I4Dm3CXdESA
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Posted By: Lightzy
Date Posted: 12/28/2018 at 11:51am
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Hmmm. The LSW is a bit of a bad-boy blade though. It's actually harder to keep balls short than with say, viscaria. It's not 'stable', so to speak. The more your shot is angled, it gets disproportionally faster. So those chops you're making (inexpertly but lets get some coaching and groove that) will have much more chance of popping up long. Hmm. Dunno. Yeah I guess. It's an excellent blade but for a beginner it might be a bit confusing to use since there's such a huge difference between slight inclinations of the blade. |
Posted By: colton
Date Posted: 12/28/2018 at 1:05pm
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Thanks for the comments again. Here's a summary of people's recommendations. I'm a little confused about the hardness/softness recommendations, specifically since serr and Lightzy recommended the exact opposite hardness for forehand vs. backhand, so I wrote down the hardness in parentheses (hardness ratings according to https://revspin.net/rubber). serr - forehand Xiom Vega Asia DF (or in general, a softer rubber) (medium) - backhand Xiom Vega Pro (or in general, a harder rubber) (medium hard) Pr1nc - forehand Xiom Vega (not sure which version) - backhand Xiom vega (not sure which version) notfound123 - Xiom Vega Europe (not certain if forehand or backhand or both) (medium soft) fatt - backhand Butterfly Tenergy 80FX (medium soft) - forehand possibly Butterfly Tenergy 80FX (medium soft) BRS - Butterfly Rozena (not certain if forehand or backhand or both) (medium) tom - Butterfly Rozena (not certain if forehand or backhand or both) (medium) Lightzy - forehand - Yasaka Rakza 7 Soft (or in general, a harder rubber) (medium soft) - backhand - Yasaka Rakza 7 Soft (or in general, a softer rubber) (medium soft) I will also add that my last set of rubbers was - forehand - Xiom Omega IV Europe (medium) - backhand - Xiom Omega IV Pro (medium hard) (And by the way I tried those two rubbers the opposite way at first, with the Europe on my backhand and Pro on forehand, but liked them better this way.) Any more comments, or can anyone help me make sense of the hardness/softness issue? |
Posted By: jt99sf
Date Posted: 12/28/2018 at 1:38pm
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Get coaching. Take video of the sessions and review as needed. -------------  Photino/Super Viscaria : H3 (FH)/Dr N pips(BH)林德成 HardBat:Hock 3-Ply /Dr Evil |
Posted By: mjamja
Date Posted: 12/28/2018 at 1:47pm
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Seriously, at your level (and mine) I would not worry about hardness except for avoiding the very soft or very hard stuff. You are at a level where variations in your stroke will mask the feel differences in sponge hardness anyway. Get any of the combinations listed and work on your game for a year or more. When you are settled in your technique then think about varying one side hardness at a time and seeing if it makes a significant difference. If you want to start with slightly different hardnesses on each side that is ok. Try each hardness on both sides and then train with what feels best. Do not be surprised if after a year you change your mind on which hardness fits which side as your strokes change and improve. Mark |
Posted By: pgpg
Date Posted: 12/28/2018 at 2:05pm
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Go with what FruitLoop said, or may be don't even bother with tensors (Vega Europe) for now. Get something cheap and slow from colestt or zeropong and hide your LSW ZLF combo. Your current combo is way too fast and it does not look like you have any coaching (true?). Invest in that first. P.S. Is 1400 an estimate or a real rating? Sorry, but it looks high to me. Edit: and stop browsing revspin and thinking about hardness. Does not really matter that much.
------------- USATT: ~1810 Butterfly Defense Alpha ST - H3 Neo - Cloud&Fog OX |
Posted By: stancuzi
Date Posted: 12/28/2018 at 2:09pm
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Hi, from my experience I'd recommend you using two different as hardness rubbers so u can see which one to which side better fits. I'll say Vega pro (max) FH and Rosena BH (max) for example. Cheers, Stan |
Posted By: colton
Date Posted: 12/28/2018 at 2:36pm
OK, thanks for the advice. I'll think about that. And true, I've never had any professional coaching.
It's an estimate. I've only played in one official tournament. I came in 2nd in the U1400 division. I'm a little better now, so I think 1400 is pretty accurate. I also nearly always beat people I play with that have official ratings of 1200-1300 and nearly always lose to those who have official ratings of 1500 and above. Also note that the video was the last match of a tournament, so I was quite tired by then.
OK. Gotcha.
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Posted By: Pr1nc
Date Posted: 12/28/2018 at 4:24pm
Xiom Vega Europe 2.0mm on both sides because is all to do rubber and because of high arc of LS ZLF. ------------- Blade: Jun Mizutani ZLC FH: Victas V > 15 Extra BH: Victas V > 15 Extra |
Posted By: adishorul
Date Posted: 12/29/2018 at 5:05am
Vega europe is a high throw rubber if you glue it on a high throw blade the whole setup will throw the ball too high beside that you will have to close the angle more on both side. IMHO something like nittaku fastarc s1 will work better on LSW. |
Posted By: Lightzy
Date Posted: 12/29/2018 at 8:43am
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You see most of the suggestions are for softer rubbers. This is because they will help you put a lot more spin on the ball more easily than hard rubbers, so they will help you come into your proper technique more easily, as you'll be instantly rewarded for even a small step in the right direction. This will also help motivate you as you advance. Worthwhile. |
Posted By: colton
Date Posted: 12/29/2018 at 1:26pm
According to https://revspin.net/rubber/, the Fastarc S-1 has an even higher throw than the Vega Europe. Xiom Vega Europe - 4.6, medium throw Nittaku Fastarc S-1 - 5.4, medium high throw (I know pgpg told me to stop browsing revspin but I haven't taken that advice yet.) |
Posted By: pgpg
Date Posted: 12/29/2018 at 1:33pm
Also, stop thinking about the throw angles of rubbers and blades...  ------------- USATT: ~1810 Butterfly Defense Alpha ST - H3 Neo - Cloud&Fog OX |
Posted By: colton
Date Posted: 12/29/2018 at 3:47pm
Made me laugh! But I'm a physics professor, so looking at things quantitatively and analyzing data is kind of what I do. Anyway, thanks again to all who chimed in. I decided to order Yasaka Rakza 7 Soft 2.0 and Xiom Vega Europe 2.0. I'll try them each with forehand and backhand and see how they go.
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Posted By: BH-Man
Date Posted: 12/29/2018 at 3:47pm
I would be the joker and say one ought to be knowing the properties of the rubber/blade. Equipment DOES make a difference as it makes it easier or more difficult to do something. That allows a player to select something that gives him/her the best chances of landing shots they do the most if they selected equipment that suits what they do the most. On a contrary opinion, (one that totally agrees with pgpg) worrying about any of that is utter nonsense if a player is in the phase of developing strokes, tactics, and experience. One is better off getting middle of the road equipment slanted towards ease of control. Every company makes several of this class. Takes the worry out of everything and makes the range of choices easy to understand and high percentage to get right. Still, it is mostly a free world and TTers can quadruple over-analyze things and obsess, worry, and fuss over the decision to the extent of legal insanity if they choose. That seems to be a modern joy of TT. ------------- Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club Search for us on Facebook: koreaforeignttc |
Posted By: BH-Man
Date Posted: 12/29/2018 at 3:49pm
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I see OP posted at the exact second I did (and beet me by .001 seconds). I believe his choices are quite middle of the road and will be very well suited. ------------- Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club Search for us on Facebook: koreaforeignttc |
Posted By: pgpg
Date Posted: 12/29/2018 at 3:55pm
Ah, a fellow physicist!  Here is a thing - when analyzing data it's helpful to understand what is the actual data generating process (survey of random strangers of unknown TT ability about properties that are not well defined and subjective in nature). Sorry for somewhat combative attitude. ------------- USATT: ~1810 Butterfly Defense Alpha ST - H3 Neo - Cloud&Fog OX |
Posted By: jpenmaster
Date Posted: 12/29/2018 at 8:10pm
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Physics.....Im not a physicist but work at Fermilab building the experiments. I am currently working on PIP2 and SLAC. Watching your BH have you ever thought about long pips? It looks like you prefer to chop everything to your BH. I saw you killed a few high balls at the table but that's easy with pips as well. ------------- OSP Expert II w DNA Dragon Grip |
Posted By: pgpg
Date Posted: 12/29/2018 at 9:01pm
Are you playing Aurora Cup in 3 weeks, by any chance? ------------- USATT: ~1810 Butterfly Defense Alpha ST - H3 Neo - Cloud&Fog OX |
Posted By: jpenmaster
Date Posted: 12/29/2018 at 11:59pm
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Yeah I will be there. I'm in the U2000 bracket ------------- OSP Expert II w DNA Dragon Grip |
Posted By: max503
Date Posted: 01/02/2019 at 12:39am
| I have Liu Shiwen ZLF. I use Butterfly Rozena on FH. Excellent in every way. Not as fast as T05. So a bit better control. |
Posted By: AmiciSumus
Date Posted: 01/06/2019 at 4:49pm
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I am playing the Liu Shiwen ZLF and find the following setup fine for me and I are also around 1400 - 1500 Level ... Butterfly Liu Shiwen ZLF FL 86 Gr - Rasanter Grip 2.1 FH Black - Rasanter R50 2.0 BH Red ------------- Xiom Ice Cream AZXi FL - FH ALC: Butterfly Dignics 2.1 Red - BH ZLC: Butterfly Dignics 2.1 Black Xiom Ice Cream AZXi FL - FH ALC: Adidas P7 Max Red - BH ZLC: Rasanter R53 2.0 Black |
Posted By: ClimbK2
Date Posted: 05/02/2019 at 9:56pm
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Good commentary overall, particularly given the 1400 rating. The Liu Shiwen is very flexible relative to it's speed, therefore better attacking players will typically want medium rubber on their backhands, and harder rubber on their forehands. ------------- DHS ML5 (W968), Hurricane 3, Dignics 09c |