Why do ONLY choppers need larger blades ?
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Topic: Why do ONLY choppers need larger blades ?
Posted By: Thuro_Wexston
Subject: Why do ONLY choppers need larger blades ?
Date Posted: 04/14/2019 at 12:04pm
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I am told it is because it gives more spin (they mean backspin). So if it gives more backspin, should the logic not follow that it will also give more topspin as well ? I have heard
the argument that compact size allows for quicker hand & wrist movements
for attackers close to the table (choppers are generally away from table) . Ok
this may make sense for short-pips close to the table block & smash type
players but these days everyone (except He Zhewen of course, who flat out
refuses to leave the table at any cost & probably still be that way when he
is 120 years old LOL) at top levels using reversed rubber play away (if
not as far away as choppers) from the tables. So should they also not use
larger size blades to get more topspin as well ? The last basement player using inverted
rubber at world class level was Roland Vimi of
Slovakia who beat 1988 Olympic Gold medalist Yo Nam Kyu at 1993 World's amd
maybe that crazy Desmond Douglas. |
Replies:
Posted By: Chairman Meow
Date Posted: 04/14/2019 at 1:15pm
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Having a larger blade increases the weight substantially. A chopper who most likely uses long pips on one side can afford to have this extra mass, since the rubber is lighter. However, an offensive player with double inverted could suffer from this increased mass. This is probably a big reason offensive players don't use oversized blades, since many prefer blades between 80 and 90 grams and oversized rackets for choppers (such as the BTY Joo Sae Hyuk) are often well over 90 grams. Another consideration (though likely inconsequential) is that choppers swing downwards - that is, in the direction the force of gravity is acting - as opposed to upwards. The extra mass of the racket and the force of gravity helps a chopper complete a longer stroke in a shorter time, meaning the momentum of the racket is increased (since it depends on mass and velocity). This would help choppers maximize spin on the ball. An offensive player would have to struggle against gravity while executing their strokes, which would lower the speed at which they can swing and possibly the spin they produce. This is not desirable for offensive players The surface area of the blade also comes into play in another probably inconsequential consideration - air resistance. A chopper swings perpendicular to the area vector of the blade while chopping, meaning the side of the blade is the surface cutting through the air. The surface area of the side is very small, making air resistance negligible. However, offensive players swing more parallel to the area vector, meaning the face of the blade is what is mostly cutting through the air. This means air resistance has a greater effect on the offensive player, and the increased surface area of a chopper's blade would also increase the force opposing the offensive players' stroke. The surface area does not really help with brushing the ball or with dwell time. The ball is only in contact with the racket for a fraction of a second, no matter what racket is used. The ball contacts and leaves the racket almost instantly. The only benefit one would have using a larger racket for offensive play is that it makes it easier to make contact with the ball. However, if you hit a ball with a large racket that you miss with a small one, you are definitely hitting in the wrong part of the racket. This would make the shot weak, and it would be better to just practice and hit the ball in the desired part more consistently. I'm sure there are other more important things to consider that I have missed, but these are the few that I have come up with. ------------- -1 ply Cypress 11.5mm "The Castigator" -H3 Prov. Blue Sponge 2.2mm 41 deg. -H3 Prov. Orange Sponge 2.1mm 37 deg |
Posted By: mhnh007
Date Posted: 04/14/2019 at 1:34pm
| Setup weights dictate the size. |
Posted By: Thuro_Wexston
Date Posted: 04/14/2019 at 1:48pm
For the most part I may agree with you(r theoretical justifications) but from a practical stand-point I am sure from my personal experience that I definitely get lot more spin both TopSpin and BackSpin due to increased dwell-time using a larger blade. Therefore I would tend think a player playing away from the table will get more TopSpin both in Loops , CounterLoops & especially lobs (your theory of air resistand, while it makes sense, may not be more significant increased dwell time IMO) Also I mentioned in my first post , that it is easier to swing with quick movements with a compact head racket. |
Chairman Meow wrote:Posted By: obesechopper
Date Posted: 04/14/2019 at 2:34pm
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I think larger heads have more vibrations, are slower, and not as crisp (unless the blade itself weighed like 120 grams...) compared to the denser, smaller-headed blades. If you are a blocker or close to the table player, I don't imagine why someone would want a larger blade with all of the above listed attributes. Liu Song used a joo se hyuk and he attacks just about every ball with this FH close to the table. But again, he has LP OX on the backhand side so the overall weight is kept down. I've taken larger blades and cut them down in size. It becomes more direct, less vibrations and faster. Which blade did you use fatt that was oversized without vibrations? Perhaps the koji special? I've used that one as well, and while it does have very minimal vibrations, the flex is still pretty high and using my same stroke the ball is quite a bit slower than on a cut down version. I've had a custom over-sized blade created that weighed about 119 grams. It had ZLC in it, koto, kiri and spruce. So a very solid blade, certainly, with low vibrations. As you'd expect, it felt like swinging a mallet! It was made to fit a Liu Song style game of FH loop-kills/blocks/drives and bh LP OX chop blocks near the table. Overall weight was about 185 when all glued up.
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Posted By: Lula
Date Posted: 04/14/2019 at 3:25pm
| I think defenders style of play is much more based on not missing than offensive players. Of course no one wants to miss, but defendes have a hard time to win points other ways. Those defenders that play further away from the table proably wants to have a heavier blade because this is better for their timing, and they can also play harder with the forehand becuase of the physics. I think these things could be the reason. |
Posted By: stiltt
Date Posted: 04/14/2019 at 3:38pm
------------- /forum/topic91512_page1.html#1124698" rel="nofollow - sales - forum_posts.asp?TID=19315" rel="nofollow - feedback |
Posted By: gnopgnipster
Date Posted: 04/14/2019 at 9:20pm
------------- Hardbat: Valor Champion/FH/BH-Valor Premier-OX Regular:Valor Big Stick FH-Apollo II & BH-Globe 979 OX |
Posted By: Thuro_Wexston
Date Posted: 04/14/2019 at 9:29pm
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[/QUOTE]Valor Premier OX is 180mm x 185mm[/QUOTE] Hardbat has seen its heyday & it was great when it lasted (read about Bergmann write up at ITTF website) . You will never see another Rozeanu. So let us move on from this psychosis (hardbat & your charismatic gang leader Reisman RIP) to reality of the sponge-domain Any places I can buy 180x180 blades, smooth rubbers & long-pips rubbers ? |
Posted By: doraemon
Date Posted: 04/15/2019 at 10:11pm
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If Gionis can use Korbel (larger head) for defense, does it mean it is still OK to use BTY Jo Se Hyuk for two-sides offense? My friend has pips out on BH and still attack well on FH using oversize blade. I think you can use any blades to attack, but will it be 100% effective for pure offense, no defense?
------------- Blade : Just wood FH : black rubber BH : red rubber |
Posted By: Purett
Date Posted: 04/16/2019 at 12:29pm
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shao yu,robert roberts they use oversize blades and both are attackers ------------- rating solid 1000 moving up to 1001 |
Posted By: Purett
Date Posted: 04/16/2019 at 4:48pm
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shao uses old stiga carbon robert uses donier robert roberts off ben nisbet sell's them at tabletennisstore.us ------------- rating solid 1000 moving up to 1001 |
Posted By: Charlie Brown
Date Posted: 04/16/2019 at 10:55pm
 ------------- *sigh* |
Posted By: Thuro_Wexston
Date Posted: 04/17/2019 at 8:25pm
Sorry about duplicate. Unable to delete under posting options. Please delete this reply
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Posted By: Thuro_Wexston
Date Posted: 04/17/2019 at 8:28pm
Thanks for the ridicule Obviously you have no respect for the playing styles or racket designs to match their playing styles despite my repeatedly explaining that each human is unique |
Posted By: avova
Date Posted: 04/17/2019 at 8:38pm
| Xu Xin uses a larger blade. |
Posted By: cole_ely
Date Posted: 04/20/2019 at 12:16am
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The first 3 or 4 or 5 replies were great. All different, all true. ------------- Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b Please let me know if I can be of assistance. |
Posted By: kakapo
Date Posted: 04/20/2019 at 2:48am
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Gustaf Ericsson uses a clipper for défense and Gionis a 98gr Korbel also for defense. I know some very good defenders at national level in Belgium who use carbonado 45 or Nittaku acoustic inner carbon for defense. All this blades don't have a particularly large head. On the other side, 2 of my friends play in second Belgian division using JSH blades with tenergy 25 on the FH and Moristo SP on the backhand. They block with BH and hit with tenergy. Another one plays in the third division with koji spécial blade with 2 dr evil OX..., hardbat style and he hits on everything.... ------------- Def play grey grip 94gr, Venus 2 blue 2,2, Neubauer KO extreme 1,3mm |
Posted By: JohnnyChop
Date Posted: 04/23/2019 at 10:52am
Totally agreed then the rest just went off the rail ------------- 729 Battle 2 Yasaka Goibao 5 Nittaku Fastarc G1 Nittaku Fastarc G1 Butterfly Cypress Max |
Posted By: mykonos96
Date Posted: 04/23/2019 at 11:36am
A large blade has more flexibility because the thickness / size ratio and dampens better because its softer
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Posted By: mykonos96
Date Posted: 04/23/2019 at 11:42am
Is shao still using clippa?
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Posted By: Purett
Date Posted: 04/24/2019 at 8:59am
no ------------- rating solid 1000 moving up to 1001 |
Posted By: mykonos96
Date Posted: 04/24/2019 at 9:01am
So what pips?
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