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North America Teams

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Category: General
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Topic: North America Teams
Posted By: benfb
Subject: North America Teams
Date Posted: 11/29/2019 at 10:33pm
Anyone have an idea on when to get the new schedules for Saturday?

In previous years, you could pick them up at 8:00 and expect to play at 9:00. But now they have an 8:00 round, so I'm not sure when to go down. Suggestions?



Replies:
Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 11/29/2019 at 10:36pm
The hall is open at 7am on Saturday per the sign on the ticketing center.

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https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Carbonado 245
FH: D09C 1.9 R/B
BH: D09C 1.9 B/R
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes.


Posted By: benfb
Date Posted: 11/29/2019 at 10:56pm
And we are supposed to go down at 7 without knowing whether we're playing at 8 or 9? That's pretty stupid.

But thanks for answering.


Posted By: jfolsen
Date Posted: 11/29/2019 at 11:37pm
My understanding is that all but Division 1 started at 8, Division 1 started at 9.


Posted By: benfb
Date Posted: 12/01/2019 at 10:50pm
A random photo during registration showing some familiar players.




Posted By: benfb
Date Posted: 12/01/2019 at 10:52pm
Also, I'd be interested in hearing what people thought about the modified schedule when they expanded the team limit to 272 teams.


Posted By: BH-Man
Date Posted: 12/02/2019 at 6:06am
I see so little talk about the NA Teams and by now it is well over...

I kinda get it, when you play on the NA teams, by the time you finish matches, get some dinner, get washed up, one barely has any time for getting juiced up let alone talking about the tourney on the TT forums, before you fall unconscious to get up at 6 AM or so the next day.

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Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club
Search for us on Facebook: koreaforeignttc


Posted By: pgpg
Date Posted: 12/02/2019 at 6:52am
Learned a new Teams trick: if you want to get into division higher than your actual team level, you bring along an unrated player and give them a very inflated estimated rating. Bingo - you are placed decently to start with and then you can only drop 2 levels at worst.  

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USATT: ~1840
Nittaku Shake Defense - Fastarc G1 - Dtecs OX


Posted By: chongqinghotpot
Date Posted: 12/02/2019 at 7:04am
the division A’s final was really unbelievable, Wang Xing coming back to beat Eugene Wang at the last game of the tournament. More exciting , entertaining to watch than the worlds.

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USATT rating 2200
05Vis64


Posted By: mentortt
Date Posted: 12/02/2019 at 7:14am
True. Also, if you don't want to get into division based on original assignment. You can make top rated person doesn't play in preliminary round. But in general, this practice will not get good results. I guess high rated players losing motivation to play because weak opponent.

In general, it is very good tournament. And met a lot of old friends and made some new friends. So many people already pre-registered for next year Joola team. Can estimate even better turnout next year. A lot of people I know this is the only tournament joined in a year. I think US national and US open needs to learn from this joola team success.

Originally posted by pgpg pgpg wrote:

Learned a new Teams trick: if you want to get into division higher than your actual team level, you bring along an unrated player and give them a very inflated estimated rating. Bingo - you are placed decently to start with and then you can only drop 2 levels at worst.  


Posted By: benfb
Date Posted: 12/02/2019 at 9:32am
Some thoughts:

1. This is the best tournament for amateurs for playing a lot of high quality matches. It's always intense, all the time.

2. I wish they could improve the venue. I love the hotel but concrete floors are too tiring when you're playing non-stop for three days. And the lighting is so weird: bright on one table with distracting shadows, then dark on the next. And because every table is different, and we're always playing in different parts of the venue, there's no chance to get used to a specific type of lighting.

3. My biggest complaint is that they tried to do too much when they expanded enrollment to 272 teams. It's not reasonable to expect purple to play at 8 am and 9 pm (8 pm round delayed) on the same day with no break. Plus the fact that many round ended up being 2+ hours late.

I think they should seriously consider dividing this into east and west events. And only scheduling four rounds on Saturday.


Posted By: pgpg
Date Posted: 12/02/2019 at 10:54am
Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

Some thoughts:

1. This is the best tournament for amateurs for playing a lot of high quality matches. It's always intense, all the time.

2. I wish they could improve the venue. I love the hotel but concrete floors are too tiring when you're playing non-stop for three days. And the lighting is so weird: bright on one table with distracting shadows, then dark on the next. And because every table is different, and we're always playing in different parts of the venue, there's no chance to get used to a specific type of lighting.

3. My biggest complaint is that they tried to do too much when they expanded enrollment to 272 teams. It's not reasonable to expect purple to play at 8 am and 9 pm (8 pm round delayed) on the same day with no break. Plus the fact that many round ended up being 2+ hours late.

I think they should seriously consider dividing this into east and west events. And only scheduling four rounds on Saturday.

Yes, pretty much this (but don't they have already West version of Teams, not sure whether it's JOOLA or Butterfly though). 

You could really tell that there were too many teams and not enough tables to go around this time: most of our team matches were on 1 table, instead of customary 1.5 scenario, and that guarantees delays. A friend told me they finished their last Saturday match around 1 am Sunday morning - and had 8 am match after that. Shocked  


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USATT: ~1840
Nittaku Shake Defense - Fastarc G1 - Dtecs OX


Posted By: Twiddler
Date Posted: 12/02/2019 at 11:08am
Team matches on one table? You have to be kidding. Guaranteed delays. No thanks.


Posted By: mentortt
Date Posted: 12/02/2019 at 11:18am
Don't blame that. So many people like that. Is it wonderful whole team support their player?
This is much better than empty table. Very good crowed events! The people like that and they will come back next year.


Originally posted by Twiddler Twiddler wrote:

Team matches on one table? You have to be kidding. Guaranteed delays. No thanks.


Posted By: Twiddler
Date Posted: 12/02/2019 at 11:21am
It goes without saying the teams tourney is the most fun one of the year. But there's no excuse to have matches on one table- what if it is a 5-4 you will delay everyone in your group and that is what happened. Playing on cement and uneven lighting should is not right with the entry fee that was paid.



Posted By: mentortt
Date Posted: 12/02/2019 at 11:25am
Most memory moment is 5-4 matches. Doesn't matter win or lose. Players and their family will remember that for a very long time.


Posted By: Twiddler
Date Posted: 12/02/2019 at 11:37am
What about the teams that have to wait. Is that not a consideration? 


Posted By: Ttunderthesun21
Date Posted: 12/02/2019 at 11:43am
Most of the tables empty up later on, we used the division 1 tables to finish our 8 PM match, since the assigned tables were being used (due to our last game being delayed, so a chain reaction).  Honestly, it wasn't as bad as last year, but they should consider expanding the hall.  Definitely should add more red flooring, I mean come on there is no way they can't afford it.  With record # of players every year they should be making bank.  


Posted By: mts388
Date Posted: 12/02/2019 at 3:49pm
Originally posted by mentortt mentortt wrote:

Most memory moment is 5-4 matches. Doesn't matter win or lose. Players and their family will remember that for a very long time.

That happened to my team a few years ago.  My memory is that to make more money the event was oversold.  We spent a lot of time sitting around waiting for tables to open up.  I haven't been back, or will I go back again.  The memories are bad, not good.


Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 12/02/2019 at 4:46pm
Originally posted by chongqinghotpot chongqinghotpot wrote:

the division A’s final was really unbelievable, Wang Xing coming back to beat Eugene Wang at the last game of the tournament. More exciting , entertaining to watch than the worlds.

Do not read the below if you do not want spoilers.

I can't remember a finals in the past decade of attending that went 5 matches, and has so many competitive games.  It was worth getting home at 2am in the morning to watch it live.  The first and last matches deserved standing ovations.  Eugene was unfortunate to lose both despite having 2-0 leads.  

The most disappointing player for me was Kaden.  To have a forehand that good and yet no patience playing choppers makes no sense to me.


-------------
https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Carbonado 245
FH: D09C 1.9 R/B
BH: D09C 1.9 B/R
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes.


Posted By: JimT
Date Posted: 12/02/2019 at 5:59pm
My main gripes are
a) bad logistics
b) greed overpowering common sense

a) As a captain I had to stand in line for the team registration for almost two hours. It should take literally 20-30 seconds to register the team.

- What's your team? XYZ... Uh-huh... OK, found it. Here is your sixpack of balls, here is your schedule for tomorrow. Thank you, goodbye.

Bam! 20 seconds.

Of course, not... almost everyone had to pay some extra fees right there in person! WTF?? It would be super-easy to simply email the team (captain) with the PayPal invoice, say, a week before the tournament... after all, when we register the team online, we pay online, so the system is already set up.

Granted, there will be teams with some more serious registration issues - but 90% of the teams will not have them.

On top of that, these people managed to NOT have the free spectator passes promised to the players who made reservation at the Gaylord. Plus, they told me to come and pick the passes in the morning at the same line (team reg.) I dutifully came in the morning, stood in line for 15-20 minutes until I realized that something was wrong - then, of course, I was informed that free passes were being distributed in the individual registration line. I nearly flew off my handle. I was forced to wake up around 6.30 am (so I can get up, take a shower, have a quick breakfast, come to the hall not later than 7.30 so we can warm up and check in for the match) and they still managed to make me lose 15 minutes standing in the wrong line. HANG A FREAKING PIECE OF PAPER saying where the free passes are! Sorry for yelling...

b) And don't get me started on the greed that forced them to try and hold the event in the same hall (they managed to squeeze five-six more tables into the same hall but they had literally 30% more people than last year!). If you announce that 212 teams is the cutoff and you cannot accommodate more than that - then be honest and don't register more than 212 teams... well OK, register five more just in case if some of them will not arrive for this or that reason. But 272 teams with almost eleven hundred players?

Playing at 9am is already not a very fun thing for me, but I absolutely refuse to have any respect for organizers who due to their own ineffectiveness and greed force us to spend 14-15 hours in the playing hall with super dry air, lighting problems, and cement floors.

What if next year the tournament becomes even more popular and 330-350 teams decide to come? What will NATT do? Oh wait... I know - because they already did it! they raised the registration prices yet again trying to either slightly lower the participation or to offset the complaints and problems with the better income (I guess they are willing to be yelled at as long as they are getting paid more).

Overall feeling, after the tourney is over, is exhaustion, disappointment and general feeling of unhappiness - despite the fact that I actually did better than in 2017-2018. However, the only day when I played while not feeling half-comatose was Sunday, after I asked my teammates to take over my captaining duties and to allow me to skip the 8am attendance - so I finally could have a decent night of sleep.


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Single Ply Hinoki Club, Founding Member

Say "no!" to expensive table tennis equipment. Please...


Posted By: Twiddler
Date Posted: 12/02/2019 at 6:23pm
This has been going on for years. Same thing in Baltimore before they moved.
212 teams max-- oh wait we'll take an extra 60 -272. The profit on this tournament is enormous and still their customer service lacks.
Just a money grab and little consideration for their customers. You will all be back so who cares??
2 hours in line for registration.... nice way to start.



Posted By: mts388
Date Posted: 12/02/2019 at 7:07pm
Well Jim, mentortt said there would be memories, I think I know what yours were.


Posted By: Purett
Date Posted: 12/02/2019 at 7:15pm
Originally posted by Ttunderthesun21 Ttunderthesun21 wrote:

Most of the tables empty up later on, we used the division 1 tables to finish our 8 PM match, since the assigned tables were being used (due to our last game being delayed, so a chain reaction).  Honestly, it wasn't as bad as last year, but they should consider expanding the hall.  Definitely should add more red flooring, I mean come on there is no way they can't afford it.  With record # of players every year they should be making bank.  

its the labor cost that kills them its not as easy as many people think to put down flooring
and pick it up afterwards


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rating solid 1000
moving up to 1001


Posted By: Ttunderthesun21
Date Posted: 12/02/2019 at 9:04pm
Originally posted by Purett Purett wrote:

Originally posted by Ttunderthesun21 Ttunderthesun21 wrote:

Most of the tables empty up later on, we used the division 1 tables to finish our 8 PM match, since the assigned tables were being used (due to our last game being delayed, so a chain reaction).  Honestly, it wasn't as bad as last year, but they should consider expanding the hall.  Definitely should add more red flooring, I mean come on there is no way they can't afford it.  With record # of players every year they should be making bank.  

its the labor cost that kills them its not as easy as many people think to put down flooring
and pick it up afterwards

Ah makes sense, i can attest to this i have red flooring at my house, it was super heavy omg.  

Also as other have mentioned, its INSANE that we are in 2019 almost the turn of the decade and these morons make people wait in line for almost 2 hours for "registration" what in wrong with them.  Flat out being captain is the absolute worst.  

Also idk if anyone else noticed, but i had a very hard time finding a trashcan that wasn't attached to an empty water tank lol.  




Posted By: benfb
Date Posted: 12/03/2019 at 4:37pm
Originally posted by mentortt mentortt wrote:

Don't blame that. So many people like that. Is it wonderful whole team support their player?
This is much better than empty table. Very good crowed events! The people like that and they will come back next year.


Originally posted by Twiddler Twiddler wrote:

Team matches on one table? You have to be kidding. Guaranteed delays. No thanks.
I'm sure your team enjoyed rooting for each other on one table, and I met a team of juniors that refused to play more than one table (so the adults could coach them). Even so, it's just not practical. At 272 teams, even 1.5 tables isn't enough. They should be doing 2 tables per event.

My team was three hours behind at different times.  That makes for very long days.  No tournament should have those kinds of delays, just as no tournament should require 8 am and 8 pm starts on the same day or consecutive days.


Posted By: benfb
Date Posted: 12/03/2019 at 4:39pm
Originally posted by Purett Purett wrote:

Originally posted by Ttunderthesun21 Ttunderthesun21 wrote:

Most of the tables empty up later on, we used the division 1 tables to finish our 8 PM match, since the assigned tables were being used (due to our last game being delayed, so a chain reaction).  Honestly, it wasn't as bad as last year, but they should consider expanding the hall.  Definitely should add more red flooring, I mean come on there is no way they can't afford it.  With record # of players every year they should be making bank.  

its the labor cost that kills them its not as easy as many people think to put down flooring
and pick it up afterwards
That's the standard excuse for not putting out floor mats, but it's cheap manual labor. Or contract out the job for a fixed price. It's time we setup accepting concrete floor on the USA.


Posted By: benfb
Date Posted: 12/03/2019 at 4:43pm
I also agree with purple upset about the long prices for team packet pickup. I think  NATT had a certain routine and doesn't feel motivated to improve. It's the lack of competition.

Danny Seemiller used to run a competitive tournament that had good reports (although it was smaller). Sadly, he settled a few years back. We need that one back in a bigger scale.


Posted By: mentortt
Date Posted: 12/03/2019 at 4:46pm
DELETE


Posted By: mentortt
Date Posted: 12/03/2019 at 4:54pm
Originally posted by mentortt mentortt wrote:

My team or my group's matches mostly are on the schedule. But I do heard several other group's long delay story. Although we lost and most likely no big point change for us, it is definitely fun event. Yes. we are exhausted. I do agree that 2 tables per group are better.

Add: I went to US open last year. In last few days, most tables are empty. So I don't want to go to US Open again. For Joola, even practice, you need to borrow other tables so you can train in diagonal. That is difference.


Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

I'm sure your team enjoyed rooting for each other on one table, and I met a team of juniors that refused to play more than one table (so the adults could coach them). Even so, it's just not practical. At 272 teams, even 1.5 tables isn't enough. They should be doing 2 tables per event.

My team was three hours behind at different times.  That makes for very long days.  No tournament should have those kinds of delays, just as no tournament should require 8 am and 8 pm starts on the same day or consecutive days.


Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 12/03/2019 at 5:12pm
Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

I also agree with purple upset about the long prices for team packet pickup. I think  NATT had a certain routine and doesn't feel motivated to improve. It's the lack of competition.

Danny Seemiller used to run a competitive tournament that had good reports (although it was smaller). Sadly, he settled a few years back. We need that one back in a bigger scale.

Actually, though I don't have concrete information, I think Mark Nordby's death was a huge catalyst for the demise of that event.

There really should be more technology in these tournaments but it doesn't drive margin so it will take time to happen.  An app where teams can put in scores could save the organizers so much trouble.


-------------
https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Carbonado 245
FH: D09C 1.9 R/B
BH: D09C 1.9 B/R
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes.


Posted By: jfolsen
Date Posted: 12/03/2019 at 5:34pm
Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

Originally posted by mentortt mentortt wrote:

Don't blame that. So many people like that. Is it wonderful whole team support their player?
This is much better than empty table. Very good crowed events! The people like that and they will come back next year.


Originally posted by Twiddler Twiddler wrote:

Team matches on one table? You have to be kidding. Guaranteed delays. No thanks.
I'm sure your team enjoyed rooting for each other on one table, and I met a team of juniors that refused to play more than one table (so the adults could coach them). Even so, it's just not practical. At 272 teams, even 1.5 tables isn't enough. They should be doing 2 tables per event.

My team was three hours behind at different times.  That makes for very long days.  No tournament should have those kinds of delays, just as no tournament should require 8 am and 8 pm starts on the same day or consecutive days.


We had one team try that once we got to 4 wins. The correct response is "There is a table available, are you playing or defaulting? The front desk says you have to play if there is a table available."

I did actually check with the control desk, they confirmed you have to play, you can't wait to see the results of the other table. In that particular match we were up 4-1, but wound up winning 5-4. Can you imagine the amount of delay if players "waited" every time?


Posted By: Ttplayer91
Date Posted: 12/04/2019 at 12:03am
The delays were really crazy in my division, 3 or 4 hours, we only finished Saturday before 9pm because another team skipped their 3pm match to start playing their 6pm match with us at 7pm right after we finished our 3pm. Their 3pm team was still playing their 1pm match at 7pm I think.

All the lower divisions had only one table for all our matches. It's not unusual for team matches to go to 9 with multiple 5 game matches taking 30 minutes. It doesnt add up.

Last year we had 1.5 tables for most our matches which was pretty reasonable. We had time to get lunch, find a table to practice between matches, watch division 1, etc, this year none of that.

Overall I love the tournament but too crowded this year. They should add another hall, reduce the price $50-$100 and try to attract 300 or 350 teams. Or cap at about 250 in the current hall.


Posted By: Ttunderthesun21
Date Posted: 12/04/2019 at 8:36am
Lower divisions only had 1 table per match?  I did not know this.  That is absurd, it should be common sense that regardless of skill lvl if you put 2 people about the same lvl on a table together the match more than likely will take a while.  Not sure if this was asked yet, but where do we file formal complaints?  


Posted By: benfb
Date Posted: 12/04/2019 at 11:55am
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

I also agree with purple upset about the long prices for team packet pickup. I think  NATT had a certain routine and doesn't feel motivated to improve. It's the lack of competition.

Danny Seemiller used to run a competitive tournament that had good reports (although it was smaller). Sadly, he settled a few years back. We need that one back in a bigger scale.

Actually, though I don't have concrete information, I think Mark Nordby's death was a huge catalyst for the demise of that event.

There really should be more technology in these tournaments but it doesn't drive margin so it will take time to happen.  An app where teams can put in scores could save the organizers so much trouble.
Yes, Danny told me specifically that it was Mark's passing that had ended that event. Danny also told (this was something like a year ago) that he was thinking of bringing it back again. I guess that didn't happen.


Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 12/04/2019 at 3:58pm
Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

I also agree with purple upset about the long prices for team packet pickup. I think  NATT had a certain routine and doesn't feel motivated to improve. It's the lack of competition.

Danny Seemiller used to run a competitive tournament that had good reports (although it was smaller). Sadly, he settled a few years back. We need that one back in a bigger scale.

Actually, though I don't have concrete information, I think Mark Nordby's death was a huge catalyst for the demise of that event.

There really should be more technology in these tournaments but it doesn't drive margin so it will take time to happen.  An app where teams can put in scores could save the organizers so much trouble.
Yes, Danny told me specifically that it was Mark's passing that had ended that event. Danny also told (this was something like a year ago) that he was thinking of bringing it back again. I guess that didn't happen.

With Butterfly reducing its scope in NA and Joola expanding, it is going to be harder to pull off.  But things like having better flooring and finishing matches on time go a long way.


-------------
https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Carbonado 245
FH: D09C 1.9 R/B
BH: D09C 1.9 B/R
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes.


Posted By: DonnOlsen
Date Posted: 12/05/2019 at 9:47am
With Butterfly reducing its scope in NA

I had not heard this before.


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Technique is a false culture.


Posted By: benfb
Date Posted: 12/05/2019 at 12:09pm
Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

With Butterfly reducing its scope in NA

I had not heard this before.
I'm skeptical of this, to be honest.  I haven't seen any signs of it and it's hard to imagine why they would do this.


Posted By: Vince64
Date Posted: 12/05/2019 at 12:23pm
Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

With Butterfly reducing its scope in NA

I had not heard this before.
I'm skeptical of this, to be honest.  I haven't seen any signs of it and it's hard to imagine why they would do this.
They are/have reduced presence in NA in terms of supporting tournaments in regards to providing equipment (tables, barriers, etc) 
 


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https://www.facebook.com/SeattlePacificTableTennisClub/timeline


Posted By: Purett
Date Posted: 12/05/2019 at 3:16pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

I also agree with purple upset about the long prices for team packet pickup. I think  NATT had a certain routine and doesn't feel motivated to improve. It's the lack of competition.

Danny Seemiller used to run a competitive tournament that had good reports (although it was smaller). Sadly, he settled a few years back. We need that one back in a bigger scale.

Actually, though I don't have concrete information, I think Mark Nordby's death was a huge catalyst for the demise of that event.

There really should be more technology in these tournaments but it doesn't drive margin so it will take time to happen.  An app where teams can put in scores could save the organizers so much trouble.
there was someone last year in westchester he developed the app for it already not sure how far it went


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rating solid 1000
moving up to 1001


Posted By: GMan4911
Date Posted: 12/05/2019 at 3:32pm
Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

With Butterfly reducing its scope in NA

I had not heard this before.
I'm skeptical of this, to be honest.  I haven't seen any signs of it and it's hard to imagine why they would do this.
Three of the bigger clubs, MDTTC, TriangleTT, and ICC are now Joola sponsored. Maybe Joola gave them a better deal than Butterfly.


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OSP Ultimate II, FH/ITC Powercell Ultra 48 Max BH/ITC Powercell Ultra 48 Max
ITC Challenge Speed, FH/ITC Powercell Ultra 48 Max BH/Powercell Ultra 48 Max


Posted By: Lightspin
Date Posted: 12/05/2019 at 4:29pm
Butterfly NA has always had a few peculiar policies.  Years ago if you wanted some of the nicer shirts they were impossible to buy.  They would sell them in Japan and give them out to a few top players in the USA but the only way to get your hands on them was to either fly to Japan or buy them second hand.  It was very strange they would have their top players wear these outfits but then not sell them to people who wanted to buy them.  Also to be a player and become sponsored by Butterfly is a confusing process.  There are players who are sponsored by Butterfly.  However when I contacted them on behalf of one of our 2700ish coaches who placed highly in the US Open, had many regular students and played most of the major and local tournaments, we were told unless he had a world ranking in the top 100, they weren't interested in sponsoring him.  No free shirts, no discounts, no nothing.  How many Americans are there in the top 100? Precisely 1 man and 2 women.   If they just sent him some clothes and equipment, they would instantly get that money back because he could just recommend his students use tenergy or play with an innerforce racket.  I am not exactly sure what they were thinking.  Joola on the other hand is trying to sponsor and help everyone and their brother. 


Posted By: Purett
Date Posted: 12/05/2019 at 10:41pm
even lily zhang switched sponsors 

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rating solid 1000
moving up to 1001


Posted By: 1dennistt
Date Posted: 12/05/2019 at 11:46pm
We spent at least half of the tournament playing on only 1 table.  Matches are going to run long when this happens.  The floor was concrete, but at least wasn't slick (there were a few slick places), some times this is a big issue on concrete, but it was surprisingly good there.  Saturday was enough to make me worry about going back next year.  I'm getting too old for such long days, and it was an issue for me on Sunday.  I didn't recover fast enough, so I need to get in better shape.  It didn't help that our 4th player went AWOL in the middle of Saturday.  But that wasn't the tournaments fault.  It just meant we didn't get enough rest on Saturday.  4 days if you include practice on Thursday.

Other than that it was a pretty typical tournament, a few good wins and some losses to kids.  I liked the balls and tables, lighting where I played was good except for one court up against a column, and even then it wasn't that bad even for me. 

Next year?  I don't know yet, maybe I will go back, maybe not.  My other 2 teammates enjoyed themselves, so it is possible we will make a return appearance.  My only regret is not getting to watch some of the high tier events unfold.


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Xiom Hayabusa Z+, Victas V>15 Stiff (Black) Max, Dr Neubauer Killer Pro Evo (Red) 1.8 mm,
Wt. 167 gm total weight


Posted By: 1dennistt
Date Posted: 12/05/2019 at 11:50pm
Originally posted by Vince64 Vince64 wrote:

Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

With Butterfly reducing its scope in NA

I had not heard this before.
I'm skeptical of this, to be honest.  I haven't seen any signs of it and it's hard to imagine why they would do this.
They are/have reduced presence in NA in terms of supporting tournaments in regards to providing equipment (tables, barriers, etc) 
 


I have heard this also from someone recently, although I have no way of confirming it other than the observation of seeing more Joola now and less Butterfly sponsored events.  Confused 


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Xiom Hayabusa Z+, Victas V>15 Stiff (Black) Max, Dr Neubauer Killer Pro Evo (Red) 1.8 mm,
Wt. 167 gm total weight


Posted By: benfb
Date Posted: 12/06/2019 at 12:58am
Originally posted by 1dennistt 1dennistt wrote:

We spent at least half of the tournament playing on only 1 table.  Matches are going to run long when this happens.  The floor was concrete, but at least wasn't slick (there were a few slick places), some times this is a big issue on concrete, but it was surprisingly good there.  Saturday was enough to make me worry about going back next year.  I'm getting too old for such long days, and it was an issue for me on Sunday.  I didn't recover fast enough, so I need to get in better shape.  It didn't help that our 4th player went AWOL in the middle of Saturday.  But that wasn't the tournaments fault.  It just meant we didn't get enough rest on Saturday.  4 days if you include practice on Thursday.

Other than that it was a pretty typical tournament, a few good wins and some losses to kids.  I liked the balls and tables, lighting where I played was good except for one court up against a column, and even then it wasn't that bad even for me. 

Next year?  I don't know yet, maybe I will go back, maybe not.  My other 2 teammates enjoyed themselves, so it is possible we will make a return appearance.  My only regret is not getting to watch some of the high tier events unfold.
i also didn't have any problems with slippage on the concrete. However, several courts had large cracks/trenches running through them that were a trip hazard.  During the tournament, my main complaint about the concrete was my feet and legs getting tired and sore.  Now, four days later, my knees still hurt.


Posted By: 1dennistt
Date Posted: 12/06/2019 at 7:38am
Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

i also didn't have any problems with slippage on the concrete. However, several courts had large cracks/trenches running through them that were a trip hazard.  During the tournament, my main complaint about the concrete was my feet and legs getting tired and sore.  Now, four days later, my knees still hurt.


Yeah, right there with you on the sore knees.  Another thing I'm not enjoying about getting older.  The recovery time is longer for me after playing so many matches on concrete.


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Xiom Hayabusa Z+, Victas V>15 Stiff (Black) Max, Dr Neubauer Killer Pro Evo (Red) 1.8 mm,
Wt. 167 gm total weight


Posted By: heavyspin
Date Posted: 12/06/2019 at 8:29am
I wonder if attendance will become a Yogi Berra saying: Nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded. 

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If I cover my face with a sheet of Joola Toni Hold, would that make me an anti masker?


Posted By: mentortt
Date Posted: 12/06/2019 at 9:05am
It will be becoming even more crowd next year. So many person have already pre-registered next year Joola team. I agree with someone said above, Joola needs to think expanding playing halls and possibly reduce entry fees. There are not many west coast team. But for east coast team, almost everyone are joining including multiple Puerto Rico and Canada teams (They are very good and seriously underrated).


Posted By: pgpg
Date Posted: 12/06/2019 at 10:10am
I suspect 'expanding the hall' might not be as easy as it sounds - most likely it's impossible to add only 20% more space, but instead it's more like you have to get twice as much space as they have today, and who knows what it will do to the costs.

But yes, getting more crowded, and at some point it might start scaring people away.    


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USATT: ~1840
Nittaku Shake Defense - Fastarc G1 - Dtecs OX


Posted By: Ttunderthesun21
Date Posted: 12/06/2019 at 10:25am
Originally posted by pgpg pgpg wrote:

I suspect 'expanding the hall' might not be as easy as it sounds - most likely it's impossible to add only 20% more space, but instead it's more like you have to get twice as much space as they have today, and who knows what it will do to the costs.

But yes, getting more crowded, and at some point it might start scaring people away.    

Yeah probably some logistical and financial issues with expanding.  There is always some other show/event in the next hall over.  

I doubt they will be reducing entries, given how much money they make, and didn't they increase costs just last year?  I bet it will go up before it goes down anytime soon.  

I feel like I complain every year, but I sign up anyways XD.  Also as someone has mentioned above, they just don't have any competition, and people sign up so no real motivation to change/improve conditions.  

Only positive thing that's happened as far as I saw was a larger trophy for division winners LOL.  


Posted By: stiltt
Date Posted: 12/06/2019 at 11:59am
Too many people attending, what a nice problem to have for the organizers!

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Posted By: heavyspin
Date Posted: 12/06/2019 at 2:22pm
Why can't the Gaylord resort start a multi million dollar expansion of their convention hall just for the benefit of NATT? If they start now, it should ready for the 2020 teams.

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If I cover my face with a sheet of Joola Toni Hold, would that make me an anti masker?


Posted By: benfb
Date Posted: 12/06/2019 at 2:39pm
Originally posted by heavyspin heavyspin wrote:

Why can't the Gaylord resort start a multi million dollar expansion of their convention hall just for the benefit of NATT? If they start now, it should ready for the 2020 teams.
Did you play on mat or concrete? What division were you playing?  I would think that with your weight, the concrete would b really hard on your joints.

I was in 6 and we were on concrete the whole time.  I'm not sure where the breaking point was for divisions to get on the red carpet.


Posted By: Ttunderthesun21
Date Posted: 12/06/2019 at 3:03pm
Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

Originally posted by heavyspin heavyspin wrote:

Why can't the Gaylord resort start a multi million dollar expansion of their convention hall just for the benefit of NATT? If they start now, it should ready for the 2020 teams.
Did you play on mat or concrete? What division were you playing?  I would think that with your weight, the concrete would b really hard on your joints.

I was in 6 and we were on concrete the whole time.  I'm not sure where the breaking point was for divisions to get on the red carpet.

Division 2 and up get to play on the red carpet.  If you are d3 on the first day you play a couple matches on red carpet, but other than that, maybe late Saturday night?  We did that this year, when d1 finished up, we moved to the d1 tables to finish our last match Saturday night otherwise we would have been waiting for a while. 

note: We played in D4.  


Posted By: notfound123
Date Posted: 12/06/2019 at 3:06pm
Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

Originally posted by heavyspin heavyspin wrote:

Why can't the Gaylord resort start a multi million dollar expansion of their convention hall just for the benefit of NATT? If they start now, it should ready for the 2020 teams.
Did you play on mat or concrete? What division were you playing?  I would think that with your weight, the concrete would b really hard on your joints.

I was in 6 and we were on concrete the whole time.  I'm not sure where the breaking point was for divisions to get on the red carpet.

We were division 7, averaging ~2000, and also concrete the whole time.
I think only the first twenty or so tables were red floor. I saw a few familiar faces whose team average was ~2100 playing on the red floor .. So my guess divisions 4-5 were borderline red floor.


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VKMO | V>15 Extra | Curl P4 1.0


Posted By: heavyspin
Date Posted: 12/06/2019 at 5:39pm
Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

Originally posted by heavyspin heavyspin wrote:

Why can't the Gaylord resort start a multi million dollar expansion of their convention hall just for the benefit of NATT? If they start now, it should ready for the 2020 teams.
Did you play on mat or concrete? What division were you playing?  I would think that with your weight, the concrete would b really hard on your joints.

I was in 6 and we were on concrete the whole time.  I'm not sure where the breaking point was for divisions to get on the red carpet.

I played on concrete every match. At my weight, it's more damaging to the concrete.




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If I cover my face with a sheet of Joola Toni Hold, would that make me an anti masker?


Posted By: Twiddler
Date Posted: 12/06/2019 at 7:54pm
Playing on concrete floors, shadowy lighting, spending 2 hours at registration and many ties on one table means it was a ping-pong tournament. Yet each team paid nearly $1,000. to participate.
Table tennis isn't played under such conditions.


Posted By: benfb
Date Posted: 12/06/2019 at 8:13pm
I think we all agree that NATT and Joola get away with murder at the NA Teams because of a lack of competition.  The question is whether anyone can do anything about it.

It takes two things to put on a tournament of this magnitude: a sponsor willing to spend a lot up front; and a staff large enough and experienced enough to organize such an event.

Butterfly does appear to be sponsoring fewer big tournaments, which leave limited alternatives.  Paddle Palace and Nittaku mostly sponsor smaller stuff.  And Joola seems tied at this hips to NATT.  So we really don't have good alternative sponsors.

Part of the problem here is that NATT knows how much money they'll be making on the Teams.  If Butterfly or PP tried to sponsor a comparable tournament, they won't know in advance whether they'll make money or lose money.  That sort of uncertainty would make for very reluctant sponsors.

Then there is a question of staff.  NATT is the only year-round organization that runs big events.  For anyone else to do this would require a lot of volunteers and a really steep learning curve.  Very hard to do.

The reality is that NATT has a monopoly and it doesn't look to change any time soon.  If USATT were well run, they would be a lot more transparent about the process and finances of the Nationals and US Open, which would encourage competitors for those events.  As it is, USATT also seems to be locked at the hips to NATT.

This really is a rigged system.


Posted By: stiltt
Date Posted: 12/06/2019 at 8:26pm
I never did the Joola teams and each year it's a pleasure to read about it, like the nationals (did twice) or the us open (never did).
The T2 Diamond model is a success. If Joola teams management cannot afford to turn down applications for obvious reasons but can't afford doubling the size of the facility either, would it be a good idea to try applying the T2 model to better control the time factor with the current indoor acreage Big smile?
Such a brutal change would be very dangerous and us in table tennis like to evolve with sure steps. I read above that we should probably have East and West coast Joola team events. Maybe that is dangerous too if we do the same thing both sides but if we try the T2 model on the West coast 1st edition at least we'd get data and enthusiasm about a new way to do things that have proved solid elsewhere. Plane tickets from southern California to Portland or Seattle are not too expensive so we'd get the crowd from down there up here for sure. Forum members benfb, vince64 and their extensive northwest tt network of friends will assist, not because they like me, because they are competent, interested, always willing to help and enjoy being involved.

I can be really creative with other people's resources can't I? Embarrassed OK, it was just a random thought.

PS: I realize I forgot to mention that I point at Portland/Seattle as the best choice to better include the Vancouver, BC community.



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Posted By: mts388
Date Posted: 12/06/2019 at 9:33pm
I believe NATT owns Joola USA.  The USATT dropped NATT from the Open.

Craig Krum could run a giant teams.  His LA Open was very successful this year.  Maybe Long Beach would be a good facility to have a West Coast Teams.



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