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Are hats legal in tournament play ?

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Topic: Are hats legal in tournament play ?
Posted By: cole_ely
Subject: Are hats legal in tournament play ?
Date Posted: 10/06/2020 at 1:51pm
just say it's part of your religion and it's all good

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W1 St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b

Please let me know if I can be of assistance.



Replies:
Posted By: Vince64
Date Posted: 10/06/2020 at 2:18pm
Originally posted by cole_ely cole_ely wrote:

just say it's part of your religion and it's all good
Cole, does that mean I can can tell the referee that I’m honoring the religion of Hawkism when I’m wearing my Seahawks hat while I’m playing! Lol

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Posted By: tuco
Date Posted: 10/06/2020 at 3:42pm
Originally posted by JonSnith JonSnith wrote:

I am being told that you are not allowed to wear hats while playing a match in a sanctioned tournament.  

I am also being told I am allowed to wear track suits only during warmup but not once a match starts ?   

Hats are not allowed in sanctioned tournaments.  I remember reading it in an older version of USATT rules but can't seem to find it in the current version.  However, any headdress is allowed if it is for religious purpose.

Only shorts and short sleeve shirts are allowed in matches.




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The Dark Side is:
"Quicker, easier, more seductive" - Yoda




Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 10/06/2020 at 3:58pm
The last comment is correct and there is not much else left to say on this.  All of this is from ITTF.


Posted By: mjamja
Date Posted: 10/06/2020 at 4:04pm
Tournament referees do have latitude in what they allow.  So there is not one definitive answer.  In general at larger events hats and track suits  are not allowed in match play.  There is a exception for religious requirements, but again it is up to the referee's decision as to who and what qualifies at a particular event.  At smaller, local tournaments clothing requirements are often overlooked.  It is always best to contact the tournament referee and/or director early if you want an exemption so that there will not be surprises (and conflict) at the event.  If you feel that you are not being treated fairly an early call to the USATT office might be able to help.

Besides head coverings, there have been controversies over the use of full length compression tights and I seem to remember one about glare reducing shooting glasses.  I saw a 65+ man defaulted because he had on white shorts (playing with white balls) in a U1600 event.  He had played several matches without complaint, but a 8-10 yr. old challenged him on it and the referee defaulted him since he did not have another pair to use.  Point here was that referee was willing to overlook it if no complaints, but in the face of a complaint the referee went by the letter of the law.

Best of luck and I hope you enjoy your tournament experiences.

Mark




Posted By: cole_ely
Date Posted: 10/06/2020 at 4:07pm
Originally posted by JonSnith JonSnith wrote:

I was not trying to be funny and this was a serious question because I have heard that some umpires have asked players to remove their hat or tracksuit.

You have to be careful  (unless you really don't care) befo upre making jokes because I heard there are people from India belonging to a formal religion called Sikhism & males in this religion are not allowed to shave their hair including facial hair. This is why they wear turbans.

There had been several cases of hate crimes worldwide where Sikhs were mistaken for Muslims and attacked. One case is in Phoenix in 2001 just after 9/11 when a Sikh was killed because the killer said he thought he was a Muslim. Later he said "I don't care they are all the same"  which is true (& indeed a valid justification for his ignorance) , because as human beings we are all indeed the same but including all races & religions (though every individual human is unique in his or her own right)

There was a real case of a pilot in USA (I wish I was making this up) who refused to fly the plane until the Sikh was removed from the plane. This was a commercial  airline.

Heck I even know of someone who asked (in writing) a 14 year old Sikh boy to lose his fashion hairdo.

As far as Hawkism, that is an interesting concept actually because the lines between formal religions & cults are becoming more and more blurred.  Maybe the formal religions (& their high priests & swamis) get very upset when cults try to cut into their profit margins brainwashing clueless masses LOL  

Not a joke about Sikhism or even religion. It's a statement about stupid rules that don't need to be.  I'm pretty sure I didn't stop anybody from giving you the correct answer...if anything I bumped it for you.

Everybody around here is just looking for chances to be PC.  Whatever happened to fun in the sport or in this forum? 


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W1 St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b

Please let me know if I can be of assistance.


Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 10/06/2020 at 6:01pm
Originally posted by mjamja mjamja wrote:

Tournament referees do have latitude in what they allow.  So there is not one definitive answer.  In general at larger events hats and track suits  are not allowed in match play.  There is a exception for religious requirements, but again it is up to the referee's decision as to who and what qualifies at a particular event.  At smaller, local tournaments clothing requirements are often overlooked.  It is always best to contact the tournament referee and/or director early if you want an exemption so that there will not be surprises (and conflict) at the event.  If you feel that you are not being treated fairly an early call to the USATT office might be able to help.

Besides head coverings, there have been controversies over the use of full length compression tights and I seem to remember one about glare reducing shooting glasses.  I saw a 65+ man defaulted because he had on white shorts (playing with white balls) in a U1600 event.  He had played several matches without complaint, but a 8-10 yr. old challenged him on it and the referee defaulted him since he did not have another pair to use.  Point here was that referee was willing to overlook it if no complaints, but in the face of a complaint the referee went by the letter of the law.

Best of luck and I hope you enjoy your tournament experiences.

Mark



This is true too for the very good reason that some people are decent and know that at a local tournament most people just want to have fun and really who cares if you wear a hat?

I do have a story about that.  There is a lady here in Houston who used to play in world veterans championships.  She was always a threat to win the women over 70 event.  She told us that a lot of the women wanted to play in the bottoms of their track suits because they didn't want people to have to look at their legs.  But it was absolutely not allowed.  

But locally we always let her play tournaments in slacks or a long dress (she was about 1650 level in her late 70s).  Same thing would apply if someone showed up in a yamulke, a turban, or whatever.  Life is too short to worry about crap like that.



Posted By: tuco
Date Posted: 10/06/2020 at 6:28pm
does anyone have any insight as to WHY hats and long pants are not allowed?  

-------------
The Dark Side is:
"Quicker, easier, more seductive" - Yoda




Posted By: mts388
Date Posted: 10/06/2020 at 7:01pm
Originally posted by tuco tuco wrote:

does anyone have any insight as to WHY hats and long pants are not allowed?  

I think hats falling off during play would be a distraction.

At the Nationals or Open a few years ago in the finals of a doubles event, one team didn't have matching shorts and I think both teams had the same color shirts.  The umpire made one team change shirts and shorts .  They were able to buy matching shirts, but couldn't find matching shorts.  They did find matching skirts so they wore them.


Posted By: cole_ely
Date Posted: 10/06/2020 at 11:03pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Originally posted by mjamja mjamja wrote:

Tournament referees do have latitude in what they allow.  So there is not one definitive answer.  In general at larger events hats and track suits  are not allowed in match play.  There is a exception for religious requirements, but again it is up to the referee's decision as to who and what qualifies at a particular event.  At smaller, local tournaments clothing requirements are often overlooked.  It is always best to contact the tournament referee and/or director early if you want an exemption so that there will not be surprises (and conflict) at the event.  If you feel that you are not being treated fairly an early call to the USATT office might be able to help.

Besides head coverings, there have been controversies over the use of full length compression tights and I seem to remember one about glare reducing shooting glasses.  I saw a 65+ man defaulted because he had on white shorts (playing with white balls) in a U1600 event.  He had played several matches without complaint, but a 8-10 yr. old challenged him on it and the referee defaulted him since he did not have another pair to use.  Point here was that referee was willing to overlook it if no complaints, but in the face of a complaint the referee went by the letter of the law.

Best of luck and I hope you enjoy your tournament experiences.

Mark



This is true too for the very good reason that some people are decent and know that at a local tournament most people just want to have fun and really who cares if you wear a hat?

I do have a story about that.  There is a lady here in Houston who used to play in world veterans championships.  She was always a threat to win the women over 70 event.  She told us that a lot of the women wanted to play in the bottoms of their track suits because they didn't want people to have to look at their legs.  But it was absolutely not allowed.  

But locally we always let her play tournaments in slacks or a long dress (she was about 1650 level in her late 70s).  Same thing would apply if someone showed up in a yamulke, a turban, or whatever.  Life is too short to worry about crap like that.


If there was a like I would like this. As long as no unfair advantage why not. If the hat falls off during the point you lose. I can see if its an ittf pro event they could have standards. 

And what if a guy had chemo? Women can always wear a hat typically.  And who would tell marty to take his off?


-------------
W1 St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b

Please let me know if I can be of assistance.


Posted By: allencorn
Date Posted: 10/07/2020 at 1:03am
I wonder about medical exemptions. I have some slight flaring in one eye from cataract surgery when there are bright overhead lights. Wearing a ball hat with a brim blocks the light and the glare.  Would this be illegal?


Posted By: tuco
Date Posted: 10/07/2020 at 1:16pm
Originally posted by allencorn allencorn wrote:

I wonder about medical exemptions. I have some slight flaring in one eye from cataract surgery when there are bright overhead lights. Wearing a ball hat with a brim blocks the light and the glare.  Would this be illegal?

I would imagine that is up to the referee.

But table tennis is a more "devious" game than court tennis.  I like to look into the eyes of my opponent; particularly when he/she serves. Wink


-------------
The Dark Side is:
"Quicker, easier, more seductive" - Yoda




Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 10/07/2020 at 6:23pm
Note that sjan started this thread and was zapped along with one of his sock puppets.


Posted By: yogi_bear
Date Posted: 10/07/2020 at 8:30pm
i understand the religious aspects but wouldn't you look silly wesring a hat indoors while playing tt?? This is not tennis. 

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Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS

ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach


Posted By: mts388
Date Posted: 10/07/2020 at 10:47pm
Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

i understand the religious aspects but wouldn't you look silly wearing a hat indoors while playing tt?? This is not tennis. 

Looking silly doesn't seem to bother many players.  Some even thrive on it.  I would like to see a tougher dress code for players, or if there already is one, enforce it.

Players seem to want more sponsorship money, but if you tell them that if everyone looked professional at their club and at tournaments, sponsors might be more inclined to put up money.  They won't make that kind of sacrifice.
 




Posted By: mjamja
Date Posted: 10/08/2020 at 12:14am
If I have to shave my beard to look presentable for sponsors, I will quit and take up pickleball ( or knitting).

Mark - Who lowers the "professional presentation level" of any club by 50% just by walking in the door.  Do not even contemplate what happens to it when I start playing.


Posted By: mts388
Date Posted: 10/08/2020 at 1:14am
Originally posted by mjamja mjamja wrote:

If I have to shave my beard to look presentable for sponsors, I will quit and take up pickleball ( or knitting).

Mark - Who lowers the "professional presentation level" of any club by 50% just by walking in the door.  Do not even contemplate what happens to it when I start playing.

I'm not sure even shaving your beard will make you presentable to sponsors, but it's a step in the right direction.



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