That high! ?... Can't see it myself 

their rallying ability is also non existent

yeh, they are just amateur players. I guess they got their framework right but they just don't have as much time as pro to practice to reduce unfored errors. They are around 1900s in chinese rating. Looks so maybe 2200 in us rating per input in this thread.

I am normally in the Vanguard of the complaint unit, but I laid off and was too busy joking to mix in serious comments.

First thing I saw was one player serve practically backwards nearly all the time.

to me they look higher than 2200 (just searched for a random 2200 video) ...

for me they look similar to this

but they are young, in china, and show some little glimpses of high quality.

final veredict:

2400 aiming to 2500

I just watched the first minute of the last video. And i can see two big differences already 1. There is a short game going on 2. Both players rally consistently.

Imho at the amateur level good looking strokes are not the way to define level.

I think the chinese have a more aggressive over the table style.

they always look for that full power forehand shot.

that's why the points don't last so much.

also the chinese are playing in the club more relaxed while 

crazy shot quality on predictable 3rd balls and completely useless on everything outside of third ball attack. these guys would stand little chance against the 2400+ crowd, i'm going 2200 at the max. 

edit: revised estimate. unlikely they are even 2300 

look at the backhand at 0:13

look at the forehand at 0:07... it's like a nuclear missile KAPOOOSSSHHH!!!!!

with those two shots I'm sold.

I don't see that technical level here even though some points are quite long like the one starting at 6:46

already said their third balls are very strong. unfortunately they can't really do anything else decently. quite odd to see such drastically one dimensional players. 

two shots should never be  enough to sell you on someone's level especially when you are talking about supposedly over 2400 players. lots of players in the 2000-2300 range could block their first balls back and if they do its game over.

what makes you think if you block he can't just loop again?

they are chinese.

movement and fh loop is their bread and butter.

actually the fact that they never do a fh block could also indicate a high standard of play..... the knowledge that just blocking will never give them the point.

the US players, even the ones with higher level have a style where if you throw to their bh they play bh.

if you throw to their fh they play fh.

Not so easy to rally when the shot quality is that high. Sometimes even Ma Long vs Xu Xin is a 3rd ball festival with no rallies, would you say that they're terrible players? 

they don't hit high quality shots all the time. players who can hit a fantastic shot once in a while don't necessarily make great players.

the shot quality is good but not as amazing as you are making it seem. certainly wouldn't be out of the norm for 2400+ players. the ma long and xu xin comparison is weird because for the players in this video we have substantial evidence that the rest of their game outside the third ball is very weak

I like blue shirts reverse pen-hold he gets a nice side top and a great banana return of serves at times

both players could benefit with simple blocking, practicing short games and covering the wider forehand better

they would be 1200 rating in NZ

looks like the poster said that these players have a 1900 chinese rating. i believe the chinese system is very similar to the US system for ratings from what i know but i could be wrong. maybe someone else can fill us in there. 

But yeah, it's impossible to say for sure in these threads so it's all just for fun! But having that information is good because maybe there are other people with a Chinese and US rating that we can use to compare with.

Anyone have any experience between the two?

The serve/receive level is super high from both imo. The penholder guy did a side-under chiquita and knows how to vary both of them, which is a super advanced technique. Also there were quite a few rallies there, and amazing counterloops. There was even a long fishing + counterloop rally too. I think your 2100 players will absolutely get smoked by these guys.

chiquita returns aren't really a "super advanced" technique and are commonly seen in the 2000-2100 range. i did not see the amazing counterloops you speak of at least nothing that would shock me at that level. 

as someone else said, choice of shots and quality dont always tell the whole story for level

See point at 1:56 which was a full blown counterlooping rally, I would love to see any 2000 level player attempt this at this kind of quality.

majority of 2000-2200 level adult players would be able to have a counter looping rally like that one time in a match, but it seems you are still missing the point. shot quality and 1 counter looping rallying in an entire match tell little of the story

If they can do that, there's nothing a 2000-2100 level player would be able to really hurt them. Shot quality is in fact one of the primary determining factors of playing level. 

+1 exactly, which is why I like to look at shot quality. Those so called "consistent blockers" will find themselves in huge trouble when faced with loops of these quality (look at the bounce after the opening loop, you can tell that there's shitloads of spin on them)... They look like they're receiving poorly and blocking poorly but a lot of it is due to the quality from their opponent. 

Not necessarily. The higher level you are, the more the offensive player  has an advantage. Like what I mentioned earlier, even Ma Long vs Xu Xin can be an ugly 3rd ball festival, same like other matchups like Ryu Seung Min vs Ma Lin with almost no rallies and tons of "unforced" errors....

Or at least with somebody)))

this is true but imho your definition of shot quality to define playing level is wrong. to define level Shot quality has more to do with the consistency that you can score with a certain type of shot, it's not about having an amazing forehand with great technic that scores you 2 out of 11 points. 

people talk about the consistency of 2200... these guys are probably 2250 by now and none of the points go beyond 3 or 4 shots, with more than 50% of the points reaching just 2 or 3 shots total.

They rarely miss their FH loop...and that is also because of the immense amount of spin they put on the ball. Anyone can hit hard, but to spin a ball so intensely is a skill not many posses, and is usually a good indicator of playing level. Usually, more topspin = more consistency. 

again you seem more impressed by their shot quality than you should be. it is pretty good but nothing that would be a surprise at the 2400+ level you estimate, and shot quality must always be considered equally with consistency and other factors of which theirs is terrible. in another post you equate consistency with blocking which is confusing. 

as said,  "full blown counterlooping rally" is not a good description of that point at 1:56 and most people in the 2000-2200 range could easily do that. it was not impressive at all. 

these guys are prime examples of all or nothing players who are limited by their obsession with trying to crush the ball, or as another user said "trying to look like the CNT without the footwork or fundamentals". very common in the 1900-2200 range. 

these guys are 2150-2200 which is in the range of most estimates posted here.

lgxb, or anybody else know how a 1900 chinese rating converts?

I actually counted the points.

here are the results:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

this actually happened because there was a net in the point

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so really this is still the level for primorac + mark v ....  just put the ball on the table.

if you want longer rallies it starts at 2350 or 2400 really

this pattern stays the same at least until 2400

not entirely true. do you play in the USA?

actually the pattern is not that similar.

serve return error for the chinese: 0 (21 for US2200)

serve return correct - next ball missed: 3 times (16 for US2200)

serve return correct - next ball correct - next ball missed: 13 (18 for US2200)

serve return correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball missed: 9 (11 for US2200)

serve return correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball missed: 7 (3 for US2200)

serve return correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball missed: 3 (1 for US2200)

serve return correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball missed: 1 (none for US)

serve return correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball correct -next ball missed: 1 (none for US)

-------------------------------------------------------

if both matches lasted 70 points (real duration of the US match) it would look like this:

I disagree with he idea that the rally’s get longer the higher the level goes. A lot depends on the players style. When one player is a good service/receive player, the match is bound to have few longer rallies. Then you have players that are good at blocking, or players that just don’t have the last bit of power in their to to win in 1-3 shots, which they make up for with being able to play more  lower quality shots on the table. The higher you go up in levels, the higher the quality of shots, tactics etc. gets. Higher level players also have problems returning serves, just as lower level players do. It’s always the same thing. I feel you had problems with serves of players that were around 1800 and you improved and encounter less and less difficulties when returning their serves, it’ll show in you rating. But then you’re playing against 2000 level players. Yes your return game got better, but their service has more quality, which starts the same circle again. 

the difference is the first two balls after serve.

serve receive and an eventual 3rd ball attack.

in 2200 50% of the points end before this 3rd ball attack is done successfully.

in pros and also the chinese video most of the points reach this area of 3rd ball successful attack.

from there yes, it will never go much further (in average).... even at world class level.

do you play tournaments in the US, at these levels? seems like the international crowd gets a very wrong idea of certain levels of play when all they see is various highlight videos.

Precisely, and this is why shot quality (serve, receive, loop) is so important in terms of measuring playing level. 

I just analyse the videos.... the hard cold data.

I avoid my memories, my imagination, my wonderings because it gets pretty subjective.

if you have other videos I can analyze please share them.

how would you compare the serve and receive in the OPs video to that in the match between the two 2400 juniors posted earlier on this thread? 

Sorry, unfortunately I don't.

Comparable and in some instances even more advanced. For eg the side-under chiquita that the penholder did is such a disgusting shot...it even drew some oohhs and aahs from the audience lol...it's not your normal chiquita which even I can do...

I still think they are 2200+ though. But maybe not 2400+ anymore. between 2200-2350. It's a large range, but we aren't given so much to go off.

Very fair assessment. I also watched it again and i would adjust my estimate to 2200-2300. Still think they are too one dimensional to be 2400. 

Some of you guys only look at the attacking shot quality, but table tennis is so much more than just attacking shot quality. If it’s all about the quality of attacking shot and looking spectacular, Kanak Jha wouldn’t even get to top 200 world ranking. He gets to top 30 with his consistency, soft touch, blocking, wise shot selection, etc. 

Honestly I thought it was the full match too, if it's not then I would agree with mickd too...

the us players even up to 2500 all have the habit that when one of them loops the other one just blocks (even if the ball goes to their fh).

the habit of counterlooping everything is an advanced technique used by pros and could put the chinese around 2450 !!!

the reason is that there is much more competition and way more players in that skill range (18-2300) in China. if they are in the 1900s, seems like 2100-2200 is in fact the reasonable estimate.

and for the players in the video, they can't do it with any consistency at all, even though they try, and that is the reason they are not 2450

If we pick a world and olympic champion, like Ma Long or Zhang Jike, how much would be their ratings?

Is there a maximum number to reach?

that's what I've always read as the "pat" answer to this question

Nice question :) 

quite a large handful now, though i thought you would know that based on how youve commented in this thread

159 from 320 million.

that's 0,000049% of the us population

easier to spot an alien 

159 is not including people who's ratings have expired or are not USATT members. that is a large chunk of players. things you would know if you actually had a clue about USATT.

check at 3:18

the us players seem to be more regular in the bh.

in fh both videos look similar.

also I think at this level the us guys are already taking it pretty seriously.

training a lot.

that's why they are more regular.

the chinese are definitely not high level in china... so chances are they are just hobby players without too much serious training.

that could explain some of their mistakes which are pretty basic.