Stuff buying butterfly.  I first bought a DHS H3-50 37 degrees off ebay for under $40 AU.  After liking it enough I bought 4 sheets from Aliexpress for about $31 delivered.  That means I get 4 sheets for the price of one Dignics bla bla.  (I haven't tried them out yet but these ones are 35 degrees = softer.)

General consensus says do not combine euro sponge with Chinese tack.  I do agree to a point.  But this tack and dwell makes for a seriously spinny rubber and can be 'de-dwelled' have the dwell lowered by a fast blade.  It still is high throw as hell, but my back hand can deal with it.  

Background:  I used to always end up using grippy Japanese or Euro rubbers.

Service is off the charts EXCELLENT.  There is no need for a high toss when you have such tackiness (picks up the ball off the table in the first 50 hours of play) and softness.  The ball digs into the rubber + the tack and allows more spin than most people are used to.

Similarly pushing backspin and sidespin off service return is its second bit of perfection.  It is springier than hard chinese rubbers but for me, similar to the serves, I can produce way more backspin than people are used to opening up on.  I find it easy to keep it short and low.

Backhand flicking/looping almost any type of ball low over the table is a breeze and also a ball dropping lower than the table will never ever slip off your rubber.  THIS RUBBER HAS TEETH - it is not though as the back of the package says 'low throw'.  It is extremely easy to take balls near ground and fish them up.

I found it very easy to block any spinny loop attacks because the rubber bites on it and reverses the spin so well.

I won't comment on forehand looping because forehand has gone to sleep with any rubber I tried (I haven't played for about 10 years)

I can however forehand flick/slap almost any type of ball with this rubber easily over the table too.  So it is magic in service receive.  These are light rubbers so make it easy on the wrist types of shots.

Flat hitting, this is as good as it gets with a tacky rubber.  You can smash because its so soft its all about the blade you use.  

I have tried this rubber on many blades now.  I am biased because I tend to always end up with fast carbon blades.  Because of the dwell time in the rubber, similar to tenergy etc.  I believe you want much less dwell so therefore carbon offensive blades suit my style.  Otherwise this will be stupid spinny but not give you the chance to punch or smash through it.

Annoyances, like all tacky rubbers you have to wash them often.  Unlike non tacky which I always used to breathe a bit of moisture onto and softly wipe on my shirt between games... but really there is so much grip and tack that lasts even when they are covered in dust.

I can't wait to get my new sheets on backhand and forehand on a carbon blade once my recent injury goes away.  

I will update this post with any other thoughts.

Most complaints about the Hurricane is their slow speed, their advantages in service, short game and spin generation are unrivalled. So using carbon blades would offset this weakness to a large deal. 

I actually tried his setup, and it was really good especially in the close table (mid distance I still think the Dignics sponge gives it a huge advantage)

My real beef with the Hurricane series is that it plays really well for the first 2 months and then it dies off in performance fast (loses tackiness, sponge becomes hard). On the contrary, Dignics rubber lasts almost a year easily without much reduced performance. So in the end it costs almost the same imo if you take into consideration how much you change rubbers. If there was a Hurricane that lasts for ages, I would change to this carbon + DHS tacky rubbers in a heartbeat.

The tackiness wearing off makes little difference when they seem to be still tacky enough/grippy when the ball goes in mechanically too.  

I actually have a brand new primorac carbon I want to try these on.  Although I love the Michael maze I think the harder the better... anyway will report in a couple of weeks.

I'll be really interested in your experiment with those! I might wanna try it out too haha... Dignics on both sides on some inner ALC blade is great but it's really expensive to replace the rubbers....

You know where I am at though with my H3 choice.

$260 vs $62  

If you are division 1, and the sport is extremely important to you, I respect dignics ...  For me in my life right now, no way.  I got expensive blades from over 10 years ago like have doubled in price that I would never buy at the prices today, and will never have to buy another blade again...  

You make a really excellent case - I think I'm gonna give this a go soon too! So something like primorac carbon + H3-50 on BH and H8-80 on the FH?

Everyone's ability is different.

My backhand has always been versatile with what it can play with.  The tenergies I loved so much, and as you say last a long time, (the surface grip doesn't, but the mechanical dwell does.)  I find I can counter loop with my backhand right at the table with 3-50 and much further back especially with a faster solid blade.  I think I have more spin and looping ability or at least equal to a tenergy type, but probably a little less catapult which is fine with me.

There is a review of the 8-80 on this site... 

I won't hedge my bets on 3-50 as my final FH choice until my forehand is consistant with it and then I have tried one of these hard sponged tacky cheapish rubbers on FH for a bit.  If the hard makes no difference then I will settle on this 3-50 since it already does excell in many other areas over hard tacky types on my forehand.

I WILL PRAY TO THE FOREHAND KILL, AND FOREHAND COUNTER LOOPING GODS, to bestow back to me those powers which I have lost and only injure me now. 

Looking at this chart confirms my thoughts... (look at the top right top corner to find them.)

PC is much 'faster' but slightly 'softer'

In conclusion, not just post speed glue era, the new ball to me feels like a double post speed glue era.

Since I played 10 years ago actively, I am trying to find some type of compensation for speed and spin I think...  The H3-50 feels way more spinny than tenergy but slow, so I need to speed it up some how.

As commented, this series does lose tack, and I am thinking that to remedy that slightly to just play with the same side mostly for anything non crucial when possible.  Meaning, warm ups and training to one side, I will try to use the same side/older rubber.  That rubber will be in more crucial situations my backhand (less tacky/more punchy) and my non-service side.

But indeed H3-50 is slower than Tenergy but it enables you to swing harder which has several advantages.

Also over the table touch and control is better than tenegy.

The 35 degree softer version is really good.

Another note.  Because I now own 5 sheets of h3-50 I have my ishlion with the original black 37 and a new red 35.  And I put one new 35 degree on the 'versal' TSP blade... but with red short pips (RITC friendship 802 max sponge) on the other side.  Bizzare I can play similar strokes and twiddle at least against my daughter's dribbly shots.  The SP is surprisingly grippy for a SP.  Obviously not going to brush the strokes the same...  I like the short pips on the forehand because they are faster on this balsa blade.  Not bad for a $15 AU rubber.  I reckon I could beat most players at division 2 with this on the forehand.

The SP on any other faster blade feels too fast or makes me feel like only blocking and hoping.

hmmmmm...

EDIT:  I played more with the short pips and find them uncontrollable compared to inverted for blocking attacks.  Ripped it off right away.  The short pips were really unpredictable in blocking, too fast too long too high.... not for me.

Would the softer sponge give more control and dwell, or be even speedier but through ‘catapult tensor speed’ as opposed to ‘hard sponge speed’? How is it for chopping?

I find that speed you put in to the stroke and the blade you use is the speed you get out.

Hence I am putting this on the last blade I have never tried in my cupboard:  a primora carbon... so that I can speed blocks and returns more passively from a distance.  I'd hate to be stuck with these on a slow blade because you will want to make sure everything is an active shot since it will just come back slow with the tack and softness.  (might frustrate lower levels but make it too easy for a good player to kill your blocks.)

I still don't know if I recommend this on forehand because my forehand technique is currently poor.  

it won't break the bank if you get a sheet either.  

I'll probably try the recently released Tibhar K3 soon to replace my 05 (paying $100+ for rubbers is just a bad deal)

I had another 2 hour session today with 2 players.  Sadly, my injury started niggle more and more.  All I will say here is that Hurricane 3-50 on the backhand on the primorac carbon is grippy and tacky enough to make a good player block and attack my loops off the table due to the spin.  On the forehand the primorac carbon was really fast at blocking fast attacks that I get my hand to making it much harder a second follow up.   And this guy that was attacking shot a hell of a lot past me faster than I can put my eyes to...  I did block some right off the table but man, this guy could really slog into them and anyone would be lucky to have a bat in the right place for those.

We only played two games after practising for an hour and half.  And we were 50/50 in the end because I could serve him off or sidespin push or back hand loop well.  Not bad for me not having a forehand stroke attack at all.

He really struggled with my serves even after that long of me giving him my best ones to practise against.  Hurricane 3-50 is still one of the best serving rubbers I have ever touched.  I didn't even give him half of my serves because I dont want him to lob them up by accident to my forehand... I can't attack them third ball because of my injury...

Yeah I'm still investigating various D05/T05 replacement options... butterfly is just becoming like the Apple of the TT world, and I don't wanna keep paying premium prices lol. After thinking about it more primorac carbon would probably prove to be too low spin/hard for my tastes compared to something like hurricane long 5 which is just has amazing dwell with the correct rubber combos (preferably something really spinny). I rely too much on high dwell techniques like chiquita, sideswipes, hook pushes/flicks, sidespin loops, active blocks and pretty much do not hit flat at all (except for maybe smashes). I actually play better with the long 5 than the viscaria too due to the increased dwell.

Idk about your FH, but you might wanna see if you can change your technique to something smoother and easier on the body? I had to modify my FH and BH technique to use almost 0 wrist (due to a wrist injury), and it has worked quite well so far.

For the record.  Timo Boll is using the Primorac Carbon at the next world championships.

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/topic34187_post1120153.html#1120153" rel="nofollow - http://mytabletennis.net/forum/topic34187_post1120153.html#1120153

I am thinking to buy just a new sheet for each new tournament, so that I can have one side for maximum spinny serves and heavy pushes.  The worn side is fine for me and plays like a euro rubber.

I have also bought a sheet of plain hurricane 8 39 degrees ($30 AU off ebay on special) to try on my forehand... should arrive in a week, and I should be mostly recovered from my injury to start swinging my forehand again.  

stay tuned.  

Whenever one who stands across the table hears the 'sound', they shall prepare for incoming quality balls rushing through 😂😂😂

P.S. : slap it on a blade with limba top ply, or something that has the 'hollow'/'transparent' feeling like Stiga's, and it'll be louder 😂😂😂

Another note.  I just put on my Hurrican 8 (not 80) version.  It is not as tacky as the H3-50 and it was in a sealed plastic too.  It is according to DHS suppose to be tackier than H3 and H2 neos.  Sponge had slight creases not a big deal to the front.  

I will report later how it actually plays.  

EDIT 1

Wholly molly, playing with hurricane 8 is like my forehand loop just came back.  This is a 40 degree version and it does not feel hard at all.  Feels just right in a kind of T05 kind of way.   

EDIT 2

Had a bit more mild hit with the H8 and I can basically say this is a better forehand rubber than H3-50 for sure.  It's just got that more forward power kick...and it feels more linear and stable.  Meaning the hardness gives varying degrees a more gradual stroke. Unlike the H3-50 which seems a bit more unpredictable to me. I had a bit of play on backhand with H8 and it feels more aggressive but I did miss a few while changing in the stroke.  So the stroke is different for both these rubbers for some types of shots at least.  I won't entertain H8 on the backhand untill I have worn out these H3-50 sheets I now own.

EDIT 3

Spent a couple of hours with Versal H8 and H3-50... The H8 feels great on the VERSAL, but the H3-50 feels too slow on this blade as mentioned earlier.  It's nice having two different throwing rubbers to mix it up against opponents so I don't think for now I'd buy another H8 and use H8 on both sides of the VERSAL.

Surprisingly the new H8 sheet seems to produce spinnier balls when counter looping against topspin than my only slightly older H3-50.  The H3-50 seems to create a greater variety of topspin variation since sometimes I find I have to punch drive the ball more just to get it over the net.   

Next is to try the faster blades with H8 on the forehand.  

I went to remove the hurricane 8 from the versal and the glue had really stuck it down way too much.  I got about half of it off and then the sponge tore.

I was so happy with it till then.

Now I was thinking again about the sponge.  It seemed to me to be similar to the F3 bigslam sponge but much denser.  

These new non VOC glues really hold on unvarnished blades at least.  I recently had to rub off in tiny crumbs an f3 sponge...  But this H8 only had a few hours of play on it, making this the most dissapointing experience to date!

I can now say that the H3-50 sponge, although softer, is stronger since I have moved them around on different blades with the same glues.

SAD as F*&k

Would I buy another H8?  that's the question... if I do it must go on one blade till it is worn.

That is incredibly horrific and sad!  May I ask which glue was it that you used to stick the rubbers? My experience with using Revolution No 3 glue has been great so far. I haven't come up with any torn sheets so far and the glue removes easily from both the sponge and the blade. Some other glues (looking at Donic and may be even Butterfly) have a really strong hold and with an unvarnished blade, there are chances that you will splinter the top ply of the blade and possibly damage the rubbers too.

I-BOND

XIOM

pretty thin layer on rubber and blade...  

I just think this type of sponge is not made to be removed at all...

I also remember splinters coming off of other blades in the past, can't remember exactly which.  I know I recently lost a bit off my ishlion which would have been a part that hit the table or ground at some point and only needed a bit of help from this glue to come off.

So what I can say is that I have used H8 before and haven't faced this issue with Revolution No 3 and H8. I moved the H8 around quite a bit and never faced any issues as such. I would say that this has to be attributed to the glue. You might want to give Revolution No 3 a try as well. Pretty much the easiest water based glue to work with really.

If you think you can't peel it off only rubbing with your fingers, then try to heat the glue. Any tool as a hair dryer or heat pistol can help you to do the job. Normally the lower temperature  the harder to peel it off hence odds to rip it off raise dramatically.

I also wonder if it is the TSP versal fibre in the top veneer the creates a stronger bond then the sponge and topsheet.  

Jonyer thanks for the tip... That or some turpentine.  I tried to remove a topsheet just today from an old sheet of tenergy... had a dream of putting this H8 topsheet on a tenergy sponge... but dam tenergy is glued down hard.  I tried heat with iron, and boiling water but nothing... just a mess....

The original H8 sponge looks like a bit craft foam.  Was wondering if there is any difference to a sheet of 2mm apart from the .15 or whatever....  The type of stuff they make cosplay out of:

I was umming and ahring about ordering another H8 because it felt so good for that short period...

I ended up EJIng more and ordering hurricane 2 because its even cheaper...

Today I had a longer session of a few hours at the club with lots of people.... 

1.  H3-50 is as I said before great for serves and service return of balls going long off the table.  It's great at looping backspin early over the table, but I have started finding it too slow and with not enough forward kick.

2.  I started missing lots of loops that I contact really well, but just not springing forward enough / getting to the net even when relatively close to the table...  It is really starting to annoy me and I don't want to have punch the ball forward because my backhand loop is my strongest point.

3.  The fastest blade possible does not compensate in loops.  It does in hitting the ball back to the table...  In loops I want the sponge to drive the ball forward more...  So I am starting to feel annoyed with H3-50 35 sponge at least....

I am going to have to REtrial the 37 degrees again and see if that one lacks the same problems mentioned...

My strongest game right now is serving backspin to make them push it back and then open up with a backhand heavy loop. Or receive their serve, with me rolling the ball back with side top spin and then waiting to do a backhand loop off their following shot.  

My forehand sucks so bad and I am beginning to wonder if it is being hindered from improving by having too soft a forehand rubber....

I think I need to go back to the Michael Maze but with harder rubbers to kick the ball forward.

I tried to use h8-80 37 degrees instead of it but my bh was not strong enough to use it

am wondering if h3-50 could be an option

The H3-50 is good at blocking fast heavy loops, but seems to have a small window where at one end of the spectrum:  it often doesn't even get to the net when looping with it.  If you try it, don't get the 35 sponge.  I don't remember ever thinking this with the 37 degree one.

I am starting to think the money I spent on the 4 sheets of 35 degree I bought could have been a tenergy 05... at least I always know it plays with the right amount of spring for me.

I also read your comment too late and ordered a sheet of h3-50 35 deg lol 

I'm trying to find something I can hit thru as well as spin good on the bh. to be honest I don't have a problem sticking with the o7euro, just trying to see if there are more cheaper alternatives that can do what I want

Me personally, I am not finding this as my ultimate bh or fh rubber.   I just need more forward kick and stable hardness...  All else is fine.

On another note:

My first sheet of hurricane 2 40 degrees black just turned up from Melbourne.  Hmmm... the sheet I bought on ebay.com.au was MEANT TO BE in the old original package.... hence I bought from two different places... so this sheet will probably be identitical as the one I am waiting on from Aliexpress.  This sheet is in the new looking packaging.

The sponge is slightly lighter CREAMY ORANGE coloured than the H8 original and it is harder for sure....  GOOD.  A slight negative dome is something I'm not sure about... A part of me wants to speed glue this just to get the dome flat before using regular glue...

I had a quick play alone and IT doesn't feel too hard nor any tackier than any of the other Hurricanes mentioned in this thread.  

It for sure has more forward kick and hits the top of the net much more but this is all good... once I get used to it, this will be an advantage, I'll just have to brush up a bit more than usual, but it is for now at least not going up in the air too much.  Serves feel fine, and obviously it doesn't pick up lower balls than the table as well but this hardness feels so good in other ways.

I really think these new H2 are more of the same new family of hurricanes as H350 and H8 than the older neos and original H2 and H3s.  It really doesn't feel like a rock hard piece of lino as what I remember from the old hurricanes.  This H2 scared me when I felt it first between the fingers but once put on the blade with regular glue and hitting into it, I feel like I can penetrate into the blade with a hard hit...  

Perfect so far.  Can't wait to have a hit with it on the Versal.  

EDIT 2

Played against my 8 year old who can only drive back and uses hard SP... so all the following is based on playing against small amounts of top spin balls coming at me.

Over the table forehand grazy loop flippy slaps are the best thing going for it.  This will be the greatest strength in service return.

At the end of the table, looping with full power is still missing the table but defiinitely lower throw.  Looping medium power gets a good length and comfortable to get on the table.  They are not really spinny at all  though...  So I believe it will just be a controlled type of shot to expect returns from.

Flat hitting/ driving seems to be the strength of this rubber for now.  I think it is due to low throw angle.  The small amount of tackiness seems to produce some really weird no spin balls.   Passive shots out of position often end up no spin or almost even some backspin.... WEIRD.

I briefly tried it on backhand, and although the forward drive in loops can be good, the lack of springiness in the sponge does make it hard to play simple rally stuff, often falling into the net... similar to the H3-50 but much worse than H3-50.  H3-50 kind of feels easier to do soft rally loops on the fh (not killer shots)

I really look forward to playing against some strong power loopers and test out the other shots.

EDIT 3

Played against 2 players last night.  First guy was a heavy sidespin looper very rarely looping forward with power.  And the second is a short pip smasher.  Sadly the first guy gave me no chance to practise before insisting on a game, so I had no chance to get used to looping against topspin or backspin for that matter.

Blocking was mostly fine but and the slowness of the blocks were really putting off his timing.  I hadn't gotten used to serving yet but the first guy was good at reading them.  As can be expected, H2 is good at the slow pushing game... But I rarely push....  I won the first two games against this guy and lost the 5th by 2 points.  Over all ugly games.... 

Second guy we played a lot more but there were very few rallies and little chance to get used to looping topspin...   I got to loop kill a few off the serves and returns... But trying to counter loop anything blocked back with little time to swing was again an ugly affair with many balls straight into my court... playing against pips was not helping...  Played 1 game at the end and I won it on my serves, and finally finding a comfortable ability to roll back with soft topsin just over the net in service return.  The game revolves around serves for now...  Regardless of rubber, getting the skills/strategies of service return for me is crucial.  

Overall, not the best two guys to play against to get used to the rubber....  Toward the end of the practise I started doing all my serves again confidently and they were possibly more viscious than with H3-50... I attribute that to less spring in the H2 for soft shots such as serving.  So backspin seemed easier if done with confidence.

I tried using H2 on backhand a bit more but it is absolutely sucks if you don't get a full active stroke over the ball.  I pulled off some body armour piecing loops, but it still seemed H3-50 felt easier to get on more often.  I often find myself a bit low (not standing upright enough to get over the ball)...

I really look forward to playing players with a more forward top spinning game and with a chance to do FH to FH to see how the H2 handles the fast topspin... as opposed to SP smashes at me and mostly short sidespin slow loops.

On a side note, my daughter is getting way better and actually last night played better with inverted rubber.  I am however realising playing a lot with her is creating a really bad habit since I aim at her backhand and forehand.  If I aimed closer to corners of the table she's too short to reach them as well.

I have to start practising aiming for that corner section more.  Being conscious and having a plan in TT is very important obviously...

(I just ordered a replacement H8 from Aliexpress: AU$ 31.08 H39 2.2 Black)  

1. My backhand I realise must have something that has spring forward at low speeds, high speeds and generally loops easily regardless.  It can't be tacky at the slightest so that it can be punchy fast.  The Hurricane series has a window of not springing forward that I can't accept.  Especially on backhand, I need a rubber that just does the job regardless of how old, dusty etc the topsheet is.  Hence, as much as I hate going back to the tenergy series, I have tried enough to at least say my backhand now needs to be at worst a 10 year old sheet of tenergy.  Yes, I can use new, or second hand because the surface is not important.  The mechanical spin still plays so well over 10 years and the stroke I know just too well, as I just experimented with old sheets out of the cupboard.  Sorry to say, the 10+ year old sheets still play better than a lot of brand new sheets of other varieties.  And I absolutely must stop EJing for a backhand rubber at least.  

2.  I want to revolve around the overall bat weight that suits me, not revolving the bat set up around suiting a particular rubber.  This mostly is because of the need to whip the wrist in service, that I just can't do over certain weight limit.  I used a Yasaka Balsa blade for a long time at the end of my EJing 10 years ago (quite a slow blade)  this low weight in the recoil is something I find hard NOT to put more emphasis on.  I am not Schlager, Kreanger, Timo etc.  I am just a guy that will rip their muscles out of their shoulders with heavy swings.

So 1 and 2 so far mean the lightest blade with (2nd hand) tenergy on the backhand.  

3.  I am sticking to a Hurricane type forehand for many reasons:

cost (my used experiments are going to charity LOL = my daughter) $30 AU a sheet or less.

short game and service is superior to T

absolute different variation to the backhand - very slow and low spin but can be very opposite.

I can twiddle if I have to

---

For these reasons it's time:

TSP Versal 55g blade + red old tenergy BH (guessing T25fx or T05 my favs) + FH black hurricane H2 or 8 (seem to have more forward kick and hard enough to be a bit more stable than H3-50, but the 37 degrees might still be viable.)  

---

For those who think too light can't provide speed, try putting your finger behind the blade or allowing the full whip of the wrist... the latter being something hard to do with out stressing your joints over repeated attempts with a heavier bat.  

I did like K1 plus which is a springy tacky rubber similar to 09c (but slower with even more control) and am playing with it, but I'm really skeptical on the durability of the performance as even now it's starting to drop off (09c lasted a long af time and even towards the end of its life I could create some monster spin loops easily). On the BH nothing really beats D05 in terms of performance + longevity which is why Butterfly can charge these insane prices for it. 

I haven't tried dignics or (really) tried 09c,  I feel like I am totally over ejing totally for BH at least at those prices.  

Is there a general consensus that dignics or 09c is better than the tenergies for non professional players or is it a matter of opinion, preference?  the original tenergy never felt too soft or lacking grip for me... and I am not entertaining more density/weight...  The only FX version I didn't mind was 25 because the thicker topsheet balanced out the softer sponge.... IMO

For me T05 was the standard that was way hard to match, including all the variants....  

I have no time/resources to EJ... so am thinking to save myself any further pain (falling for anyone else's opinions) and just order a red 05 and be done with it all. 

(I might even ask if I can put up a notice at the club to buy used tenergy or dignics because I really believe undamaged used sheets make very little difference to me on the backhand.)

---

*H3-50 35 still produces a way more spinny short loop than old tenergy.  

if it is a fake rubber, reviewing it is meaningless.

H3 is good for looping but no good for smashing. too tacky for smashing.

H2 is good for both looping and smashing, so is skyline 2, 3.

DHS rubber is slow if not boostered but spinnier. needs to be played with speed (i.e., fast pace) to win.

FH smashing instead of looping and BH knocking instead of looping are trending and effective in the era of 40+ ball. it changes the rhythm of the game. more effective way of playing now is to loop and then smash although smashing, lethal as it is, is less stable than looping.

If I have to buy $30 of oil for a few months of boosted rubber I would just by butterfly.  I used to speed glue but I am not gonna get messed up into waiting days to trial a rubber either.  Boosting to gain sponge thickness, softness and tension is way too complex. Just buy a softer thicker sponge.  The tension... well tensors have been around a long time.  Tenergy was the answer to all 3 really.

Totally agree with the loop and smash style... not new though.  Most play that game.  Loop softly/controlled on the first one till you can go for the kill shot.   

EDIT 1

Played 2 hours today, and generally played better with the old T25fx except it is not as spinny an opening loop as my H3-50 was.  It is for sure faster and more forward, but as far opening up H350 is better because almost nobody could block it.  But the second ball if blocked back was generally more powerful with T25fx old.  I beat a guy 3/1 mostly with my backhand backspin serves that beat me 3/0 last time... weird...  I think H2 is slightly more extreme than H3-50 on these backhand serves.

Not sure what has happened to my forehand serve though... I miss my own table with it suddenly... It's like this blade feels too thick.

I was given a bit of a chance to play FH to FH and try to loop up a bit but I don't know what is going on... I know my FH is crap but the blade feels to stiff or something...  I am wondering if I should go to an all round flexy wood blade and see if it helps me build up some confidence.  

Will give that a go next.  

Overall, I felt today I am playing slightly better, but I still feel unco with my forehand attack shots.

I would suggest the store below, which is the official store of DHS, if you really want to buy from China. If you are in the US, megaspin.com and Paddlepalace.com are trusted stores, from which I bought all my rubbers. The price is a little bit higher than that in China, but when you factor in shipment cost, it is about the same. For classic H3, the price is always low (under $30). For fancy H3s, the price can be very high. 

Compared with other sites of China, JD.com is safer although it is still not 100% guaranteed. This is my personal experience, and it is not meant to publicize JD.

I generally do not buy Chinese rubbers that are advertised on this site, except from those "reliable" members, because it is difficult to know where these rubbers were purchased. 

Try the following and then and search “红双喜官方旗舰店” （copy and past):

https://www.jd.com/?country=USA" rel="nofollow - https://www.jd.com/?country=USA

1. I won't buy from a site in Chinese.  Aliexpress is in English at least if you choose.  I know there are scammers on there too.  

2. I am in Australia, and US stores are generally not cheap especially including shipping.

3. I wonder how much scammers are willing to go faking a product that is only $20-30 AUD... Pretty small change in my opinion to care about...   Over $50 I would start to get concerned... especially over $100 like butterfly products are.

---

Now onto an update of playing.

Yesterday I played Radi for a few hours.  She's much better than me currently.  I have improved enough to take a few games of her here and there.  Because we practise together she knows my serves much better than anyone, so that takes away a couple of games at least.

I stuck down an old Tenergy 05 on an allround thinner flexier blade with the H2 on forehand.  I liked it.  Felt much more dwelly (making up for how old the rubber surface is) and controlled (for now as coming back to the sport, the carbon is not forgiving me, although I did love it in the past).  Service felt back to normal and it was all about the rubbers (no harder blade to ping off).  

I also trialled some Long Pimples and for the first couple of games I actually beat her without playing with them for even a minute in 10 years.... however they were on too much of an offensive blade and I had the H350 on one side and it just didn't feel as nice as the slower dwelly blade.... Nittaku 3 ply of hinoki is got to be one of the bounciest offensive blades ever made... I wonder if it is actually faster than anything with carbon, the ping sound is a magical tone.  I will have to play around with that blade again because it is soft but like a rocket too.  I hit some insanely fast shots with the H3-50 on the backhand when the ball popped up a bit.  I wonder how that blade would play with the deader H2?

Overall, I feel I am playing better and playing Radi is great because she punishes me for any mistakes, and blocks at high speed anything I open up on close enough to her power zones.  

Her dignics 09c on a carbon blade really work for at the table ownership of short drives predominantly... and she was out countering most the time when we got into an exchange.

I was researching d09c in case I should be buying a sheet of red for my backhand instead of T05.  It is a tough call, but I think the lower price, weight and higher speed for the backhand is going to trump D09c.... so unless I don't get wild about trying the newest and bestest, I'm buying a T05 again next time I go to the club.  

---

Although I am guessing it would be way to slow, I do want to have a quick test of H3-50 on this ALL round blade... I am just roughly guessing that because it's softer it might give me a bit more notice when hitting into the blade more.

D05 is like an upgrade to T05 and feels quite similar.

I just googled to  https://butterflyonline.com/dignics-guides-your-play-to-a-more-advanced-level-2/" rel="nofollow - https://butterflyonline.com/dignics-guides-your-play-to-a-more-advanced-level-2/

WTF?  Harder but compresses more?  OK I do believe butterfly since they do produce legit stuff I can personally verify in the past from playing lots of stuff.

so checking prices.. D05 is the same at D09C...  premium 10% improvement for premium 10% experience possible.

Blahness, you are sending me down a more expensive rabbit hole.

---

Another note... over the summer Xmas our club is mostly closed.  No fixtures on the cards for a while so I should not rush too much.  I will buy something I can trust before competition starts in the next month.

I got some EJ recombinations I want to trial still.  

H350 on ALL blade.

H2/H8 on that 3 ply hinoki which seems to ping like crazy.

That should have covered all bases relatively before reinvesting in the T D butterfly end confidence.

---

Playing with my kid feeding balls, my H2 on ALL feels pretty good and medium FH power... I still am not finding anything that takes my 100% FH power and lands on the table. due to technique or poor suitable FH equipment... I don't know.  

---

Forgot to mention I am in the middle of testing boosting H350 with baby oil... $2.40 from Coles brand.  Smells like a baby ass.  Since last night at least it has removed a negative dome from how it was... A slight positive dome is starting if held in the hands.  It lies flat otherwise.

I just ruined another sheet.  I decided to hot air dry the baby boosted rubber and wala FN disaster, the whole topsheet just separated from the sponge on the H350 35 degrees.

F*&k

compare that to the old tenergy 05 rubber I ironed and then boiled for 10 minutes and couldn't remove the topsheet from the sponge but am now using!

Hurricane -2 = -$50 AUD

tenergy old +1 = indestructable.

I am happy getting another T05, but if better exists that is easy enough to adapt to at the same price then so be it.

D05 is spinnier than T05, and is just better at serve receive especially chiquita and pushing. I think speed wise it's roughly the same, and it's also slightly heavier. 

D09c is a completely different ball game. It's more akin to boosted hurricane (if you drop a ball onto it, it doesn't bounce much at all). But it's a monster if you have good FH mechanics with unrivalled spin and speed at higher power levels. Also incredibly spinny in the serve and receive game. K1 plus is a little deader so makes short pushes even easier, at the expense of less top end power compared to D09c. 

D05 sounds worth the bit extra in weight.  

---

On another note,

I have not given up with the baby oil.  $2.50 for 500mls and it actually does expand as seen around the place.

I received my second and last H2 and it has domed bigtime overnight.  Will glue it up for a hit today, I have my fingers crossed it feels less dead than unboosted.   

Still not sure which blade to try it on though.

Today I want to try short pips again on my FH but on this all round blade... The time I tried it on ZLF felt horrible and threw in the trial very quickly.  ( I have never found any rubber that makes me like that blade ) 

Added another layer of baby oil... So roughly 2-3 layers over a day and a half.  And glued down the  new original red H2 40 degrees.

I chose to put in on the ishlion, because I still haven't tried the H2 on carbon and the H35 37 degrees black is already on the other side and I wanted to revisit it after playing with the 35 degrees for quite a while.

The 37 felt much better than I ever remember the 35 degree again.  More controlled.

The H2 boosted feels insane!  Right now brand new, it doesn't feel slow at all.  It doesn't feel like a $21 rubber.  It feels as good as the unboosted but short lived H8....  It feels like a tensor, it almost feels like speed glued.  (no zappy gas chamber click though)  I actually found I could bottom it out and get a sweet ishlion click on my backhand.  Highly impressed.   Yes I have to be in position, but a backhand open with this feels like spinny rocket.

Playing against my kid doesn't give me a chance to play everything... I am not probably going to stick to the ishlion since I want something a little thinner and lighter... 

I won't say much about FH since the H350 37 feels more controlled for me at my poor skills still.

I wish I boosted all my Hurricanes now... I did try doing one that has already had glue on it and it doesn't respond much...  and the glue is gross to remove.

The H2 is not overly tacky, feels just right.  

I won't be ordering more of anything until I see how this booster works over time... I have no idea if the rubber will shrink, ruin another topsheet etc.

For now I am impressed and optimistic with that first hit.  It has the same H350 type of grazy insane amount of spin in the opening looper only with more forward kick that I was wishing for.  

For now boosted H2 beats H350 35 unboosted hands down... and is $10 cheaper.

Considering that 35 degrees is too soft, 37 feels quite nicish but still not really there...  40 degrees does feel a bit hard unboosted... I am guessing the bossting is pulling the 40 down a couple of degrees.  

I want to see if boosting the softer rubbers gives me the forward kick through the tension in the topsheet... or if it really requires the 40 degrees to give it the hardness to match the hard blade and give a more gradual linear kick.  

fun and happy.

EDIT 1

Still just had another round with my kid.

But I tried this blade from my cupboard.  Stiga Offensive classic.  It pretty much answers all the qualities I am looking for now.  Thin, all wood feeling, not really offensive... is flexy.  I played with it the h350 and old t05 and just kept twidlling finding both sides good for either fh or bh.  I started landing all my FH... and think this is the go.  Can't remember when I bought this but it was a while back.  It feels fast enoughish....  But slow with enough feeling for my FH hand to control the ball for correction.  Not sure if my FH will ever be good enough for a tacky rubber when it comes to kill shots.  So I think although the rubbers are kind of interchangable, they are not so much when it comes to my FH.  I am odd but so be it.  I think hurricane on bh boosted to the hilt, and a brand new T05 is enough for me.  (possibly dignics but I know what I know)

I took 3 bats.

1.  Grubba ALL LP OX H2 unboosted... I gave up on quite quickly because LP doesn't help me against her short FH serves at all... I can use the unboosted H2 as slow as it is but this style is not going to cut it against strong players.

2.the stiga blade picture above with old T05 (felt good for some shots but was just slipping off the rubber at the grazy short game  too annoying, so quit it...

That left me with 

3.  Ishlion with boosted H2 and unboosted few month old H350 37 degrees.  This I kept flipping FH to BH after various points to see which way was better.

There is no question for my strength on backhand the H2 was an absolute killer.  And I am surprised so many people talk badly about it away from the table.  On the ishlion I felt this is an absolute beast.  I even perferred it to the H3 on the FH from pretty much anywhere.  I actually found the H2 better than the H3 for passive shots just trying to get the ball back to the table, because it had more passive power built in... (I missed quite a few with the H350 just generally dropping shorter than the net.

I really felt my whole game come back except for you guessed it FH kill shots.  But I feel FH is improving, and getting closer every time I play.

It's not fair to totally compare the two because the H3 is quite worn after a couple of months.  It is not anywhere as grippy.

So many things started clicking today in my game.  I got much better at rushing back at weaker returns or just generally where I used to just sit at the table and try to block her attacks and fail miserably.  

Anything on my backhand side I was the aggresor with a very high win rate.  Side spin loops from the table and 2 metres back were killers.  I don't know if I could get any more speed or spin from a more expensive rubber in the past.  My crappy FH was either a fade back from the table or a spinny lob... Not great right now but getting better.  

Overall, I am finding back my game and running around a hell of a lot more.  

My serve with the H2 has really improved to.  

Everything in EJ world is a trade off.  The ishlion is probably the blade I used the longest in TT and I can't say I have felt much more a viscious matching rubber ever to match my backhand with it.  And with the full range of gears.  I can produce blocks that slow the game down with the tack producing weird no spin balls,  short touches, heavy backspins with just an early touch or with an active jab, and then extremely fast loops and counter ones at any distance.

Sadly I still will have to compromise for the FH.  Can't wait to swap around to two boosted rubbers to the Stiga Peter offensive classic and have another long range battle.  Fn love it boys.

2022 is gonna be awesome.   

couldn't leave the sport huh

Welcome and enjoy it for life

On YouTube, there are some descriptions about the difference between D09C and H3, though no info about D09C vs. H2.

D09C is faster, almost as spiny as H3, but the arc of H3 is more "stealthy", i.e., after the ball hits the table, it dives faster and then dips little bit further downward. 

D09C is more forgiving.

Wang Liqing uses H2 on FH.

I know addictions, I have way too many of them.  Some can lay dormant, others just resurface when the context is right.  I was kind of stuck in husband/parent land for a decade but now freedom at times and I feel I am relatively back in.  I reckon at least 1 year to get my ass back to where I was if I play almost daily.  But that's cool.  The sport rocks. Finding a reason for  'Choing' rocks and is worth all my silly negative comments after each miss.  LOL

Dogman,

I doubt Liqin still uses it after 20 years.  Thanks for the descriptions.

---

No play today, but I woke up and then pulled off my black unboosted H2.  Rubbed off the old glue with a tooth brush that has lots of glue like rubber from when I used it to spread glue.  

Boosting up the H2 gradually.  I don't follow everyone's timing of layers.  I just keep checking it every few hours and give the baby oil a bit of rub and even out.  I think I am up to almost 3 layers.  Here's a tip for boosting especially after it starts to dome.  Don't put any oil 1 cm from the edge of the cut rubber.  The worst that can happen is it rolls down the dome with gravity and pools around the pips and top sheet.  With my red successful boost, I don't like how the edges are trying their hardest to pull back with a slight dome.  So my thinking has two sides.  One is to not get it dribble over the edge and the other is to let the edge be a little less swallen.  It can be a problem for those more edge dependent serves and more horizontal loops.

Considering the last time I played a real player felt like my whole game started piecing together mainly because I started playing from 2 metres back as a default, this slower blade is going to be all wrong.  I can't test really hammering into this slower blade from a distance at home due to space and because my daughter gets scared she'll get red spots from when the ball hits her... 

I am starting to wonder again that slower does not always mean more control.  Or at least up to a point.  

The good thing about having many rubbers is it easy to try the rubber side by side on different blades... 

H2 BH so far has felt best on the carbon blade to be deadly enough.  The short game feels great and controlled forehand easier with the slower blade.  I am however left feeling like I have no win shot with this slower blade.  I am starting to think my game should revolve around making sure I can pull that off more so than weak FH loops which easily get returned.

EDIT 1

I am currently a day in to trying to boost a sheet of H350 35.  The first overnight experience of boosting into a thin layer of glue did very little.  So in the morning I rubbed off all the glue and added two more layers over 10 hours.  So far there is a little dome but not really seeming to be a solid dome like with harder sponges.

I am guessing the harder sponge allows for greater difference between the boosting side of the sponge and the non boosted side.  

The already soft H350 just seems soggy wobbly possibly already drenched with larger pores.

I don't mind losing another sheet of this stuff because it was cheapish and not the rubber I want to stay with after trying the H2.  

So if you are a booster, avoid these new sponge types I reckon.  Such as the -50 (guessing the -80)

I also don't know why I see so many vids of people boosting the neos, having to start with pulling off the free glue layer.  How annoying when you can just buy it without! 

EDIT 2

While I was almost about to reglue both the H2 black 2.15 40 degrees and the H3 35 I just got my replacement H8 turn up in the mail.

I was going to put the H2 on the ishlion so two sides the same rubber.  (red is 39)  Since no prospect of playing, I did another layer and half of booster on the H2 black.  The H3-50 35 has responded well with boosting 3 layers but looks a little gluggy jelly wobbly like still.  Whereas the H2 is stiff in its taco shape.

I know how the H2 black will feel on the ishlion so think I will try boosting up the H8 this time and not remove it ever from the ishlion.  (remember I tore a very new sheet and this is now a replacement.)

The black H8 is 2.2 (max width suggesting not to be boosted) 39 degrees and the sponge as I mentioned a while back is more felt/less rubbery like more old ESN like more fragile.  It came in a vaccuum packed seal with paper on the sponge side but no glue layer.  

I'd rather trial the H8 39 black back to back against the H2 red 39 and be able to really notice if there are much difference.  The H2 red has had boosting (been worn in a little with play) and the H8 I am waiting to see how it responds.  Right now a few hours in, the H8 sponge which came with a pronounced negative dome is not responding much at all.  I probably won't boost more than 24 hours into the H8 if there is no response in another few hours.  It seemed to play pretty nicely without after all... It's just this negative dome that bugs me.   

I am guessing it will be quite heavy overall (not appealing to my serve and recoil that I want)  but hopefully if playing from a distance is pretty much where I play the best from, I do need to have both the ishlion with two forward kicking rubbers.

H2 and H8 feel pretty similar to me.  H8 being a new generation of rubbers seems a bit fragile.  Seemed less responsive to glue in the sponge but the topsheet seems more affected.  Overall I doubt if I did a blind test, if I could notice the difference between them if they were both brand spanking new.  

The bat feels like a club, really heavy and will take quite a while getting used to.  

I went to glue the other H2 black onto my Maze blade and it didn't want to stick!  We have moisture in the air so very lightly warm fan dried (worried I might peal the rubber off)  ran to try again and got a better bond but still not great.   The H2 is super boosted = a few layers a week ago and a couple more yesterday.  Currently I have a pile of books on it hoping it might settle.

The H3-50 is also heavily boosted, hopefully it won't be so hard to glue down since it isn't so stiff.  

put them on zhang jike blue dragon

---

Had a good 3 hour session of play with Radi today... The reason I play her so much is she has a barn with high roof and AC and she is a good player.

I started off the first half with Ishlion + H2 super boosted + H8 mildy boosted.  I was killing it.  Absolutely was nailing extremely fast attacks with backhand from counter looping at the table and far away.  The whole game was great.  

I am still not happy with my FH and still am waiting for the club to reopen before getting either dignics 05 or tenergy 05.  (I hope that not using 05 is the reason I can't find the consistency I have, but I have a small part of me that will cry if I keep missing it...  )

I trialled 3 other blades for about 30 minutes but not loving them as much.

I love the feeling of the Michael Maze handle and generally how it played with a super boosted H3-50 stretched to hell, and a thick H2... But it was quite clear that the speed really reduced in more shots.  And this power is what was winning it for me against a higher level player.  Slowing down, she started punishing me for softer returns.

The idea is kill it before they kill it.

I don't mind playing carefully to beat some people if it is an important match, but I hate it much more if I lose because I played carefully and didn't just let it rip.  

I also gave some 729 cheap short pip a bit more of a chance on my forehand... (because it is weak)  And I must say I caused some problems in the short game oddly.  It introduced some odd spins left over from earlier shots.  It also was better at hitting a short spinny lifted ball.  Blocking was still unpredictable and unacceptable.  

I give Hurricane and short pips the same prize at being the worst blocking/passive shot rubbers.  They all require continuous attention to doing everything right.... 

The last I gave another go was the primorac with  h350 both sides.  all I can say is the blade feels magical at a distance but the rubbers as nice at some things just let me down too often.  

So as a summary,

I have to stay with fast carbon and I must admit it is the most fun part of table tennis.  Being able to happily stand away from the table.  My backhand oddly can handle harder Chinese rubber much better than my forehand so I will be getting a new 05.  

The deal breaker is.... I just can't smash, block or loop with my FH well enough with these Chinese rubbers.  I don't see much changing so will have to fork out some bucks soon for a new 05 for FH.  (I know my backhand would prefer 05 too, but I don't feel the need for that and variety if you can play with it is harder on your opponent.

EDIT 1

keep eyeing off my versal blade sitting there....

I had to control + find search on all my EJ combinations to realise I did not trial H2 or H8 on the TSP 'versal' (long enough if at all)

I like H8 but feel H2 is much better considering the 25% cheaper price and boosts 50% better.  

H2 seems to be the winner at the end of all this testing prior to competition starting this year and I just ordered another 2.2 black but this time 38 degrees (the softest I can find).  About $25 AU all up with taxes and delivery.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1260864151.html?spm=a2g0o.9042311.0.0.1c354c4d4OWsvr" rel="nofollow - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1260864151.html?spm=a2g0o.9042311.0.0.1c354c4d4OWsvr

It will stay in back up for a while since I have rubbers all over the place to wear out a bit before competition starts.  

Been a hell of a return to the sport but I know my BH rubber is H2 and blade will be offensive, my forehand will be 05.  

Hate self-isolating.

I pulled out my primorac carbon which has mostly sat unused in plastic 'sandwich' bag with two H350s either side.  Those rubbers are the least used sheets I have and have not been boosted or experienced any heat or anything unusual.

Going to remove the black sheet (because I want to try H2 on the Primorac) the top sheet started pealing away from the sponge and there is no mega strong bond with the glue to the blade!

So H350 too... H8 did something similar so I then went to my H2 to see if I can pick at the topsheet to pull it back off the sponge and it is not possible.  

H2 is again a clear winner in strength so far.

Ihave gone back to my front page review of H350 and given it a warning.

---

Here's my H2 40 degrees boosted glued and ready to go.

Does this picture show for you?  

The ishilion still seems to be the best (lighter with the same speed in my mind any way), but I am narrowing down to two blades still.  Ishlion will be the go to blade but I refuse to ever buy another.

I can't deny I have a soft spot for the Versal still even if I think it is too slow from a distance.  The lightness can make up for it if I whip my arm quicker, nearer the table.  I got my fingers crossed that the 38 degrees Hurricane 2 plays better on the versal than the 39 and 40 degrees H2 / H8 I have been loving the feeling of.  The harder the rubber is to hit through into the blade, the more reward of solid blade I feel I deserve.

I highly doubt the Versal will feel too slow with a sheet of brand new 05 against strong players on the other side.

His forehand is strong my  backhand is strong.

The point of this post is more about using 09c which I started trying more on both sides of the Versal today a lot more.

It is an a year old so what I say about it should be taken with a grain of salt.

I think to some degree the fact that my H2 is 2.2mm and the 09c is 2.1 makes a big difference too.  

Max Hurricane 2 is better than an old sheet of 09c on either FH or BH for counter looping.

There simple.  

09c is too low throw, not always, but overall I was clipping the net or getting nothing useful from it except an occasional flat shot and I rarely choose to do them....  

So Hurricane 2 is better for me at least, on both sides.  

I wish I had a free sheet of 05 to try again for my forehand because I don't want to pay money to decide that I don't like it as much as H2 too.

Thanks for this really good joke. 😂

I guess not.

I tried measuring my super boosted H2 2.2 and it looks like it's right on the 4mm border (my eyes aren't good enough to see more detail than that).  Noticably thicker than unboosted 09c.  I'd say much of the difference is there and the tack of course.

Pulled out the bat to have a hit today, and OMG both the rubbers could hold the ball upside down for a long time.  Really reconditioned, I didn't play much with the bat though because I am trying to only play with the versal now.

I will have to try the same method with the H2 because they are both getting pretty worn and have lost their ability to pick up the ball.

Does anyone know if the oil will eventually turn nasty due to the organic compounds, like start growing something or rotting?

Radi beat me roughly 10 games to 6 today, but I honestly was totally focussing on using all my weakest skills regardless of winning or losing.  

Oddly, my forehand was improving and my forehand usual pendulum, but my backhand started going down hill at about an equal amount to improvements elsewhere....

Not worried about BH because it is always close to coming back if I just take a step back a touch.

Over all a good day of play, my thrid ball FH probably improved by 30% just due to trying to use it only for as much as possible.

It's all about time spent on weaknesses and thinking about the strokes till they become natural again.

Little things peak back into the flow of play.

I could use it on my backhand but that's not the point.  All it did was ruin my short game, so in the second hour and a half I had no option but to use my back up ishlion with red d09c (much better condition) and H8.  As usual it just makes me want to play a metre + back and chillax. Fish and not go for killers with FH.    

There is no rubber solution to my FH problems.  I could buy a robot but I am not really cashed to do that and play as often as I can at the club.

Looks like I am going to be a defender on the FH side for quite a while longer...  

Only difference is tested how far I could go on focussing on my strengths.  

Accepting your weaknesses is also a way to just stop moping on them.  Just wanted to see if I could use footwork more to use my BH.  And run back quickly if it looked like I would have to go for a forehand.

And there you have fishing defensively as low as possible mostly on the FH.  

Ended up standing in the middle of the table and further to the right depending on where they serve from.  

Quite good as an occasional practise method.

When I knew they were going to keep serving to my right, I tried going to penholder grip and pulled off a few normal shots and one killer.  (one more option)  

Currently at the club the temperature is 32+ degrees C.  So other things come into play such as making sure I have a bottle of frozen water in the freezer up to half... mix water in before heading off.

This makes a huge difference in cooling down between games as an icepack on the back of the neck (noticed from the UFC).  Between taking sips from it.  

Bill won most the games today.  Felt like he played better than last time and or I played worse.. Bit of both.  Always tough playing his spinny backhand contrasted to his slapping short pip forehand.  

Anyhow that is the last of the old f3 on the versal.  Pulled it off after the games.

Back to double H2 on Versal.

1. If your equipment was faster you might hit them past me more.

bla bla I have been here before and take credence from players who might be at the top of our club and if I was at the top of the club too and found that was the only decisive factor in playing... but not to someone lower.

Fact is I am starting to find my FH stroke back, and it has not improved because I have played too much with higher players not giving me the count number of attempts I need to get the angles right, or I have tried to find ways out that don't improve my weakness.

Dam it.  I was going to list more annoyances but that's the one that gets me.  

The truth is when I swing my arm like I think it should be swung (attacking with full force)  I miss like crazy.   When I feel like I baby the ball back in any shot, it bloody lands on the table.  And I just got to spend lots of time doing the baby stuff till it becomes so natural I can do it with small increments towards increasing the speed and spin on it.  There really is no other solution to this.  

Impatience is a bitch.

Lucky to play 3 hours today with Eric and Shane.  Both high level players.  I have to train with the high level as much as possible.  I realise trying different strategies is key when everyone has a shot that they can win points off.  Finding out those zones to aim at and with what is key to winning even if they might have some better weapons.  

1.  I must say I started the first games off playing on my weaknesses as much as possible.  (good because I must do it an not care about winning)  and yes I lost all games to them as we alternate sitting out one game out of three.

2.  I focussed on winning.  Using my strengths, but it wasn't enough because I didn't really have a strategy or I felt I wasn't familar with a way forward.

3.  Somewhere half way through I started pushing the ball back a bit more, and then surprise I started winning some.  Basically, I allowed service return to be more defensive and then attack one or two in.  

4.  Then in the last half, I started alternating every point between all the above and I think I had my best results overall.  

It was good to give them more chances to make mistakes, but continue to do what I should do most the time too.  

I started feeling like I was getting into a new zone of sorts.  I actually used the strengths of the H2 for short pushing and more aggressive push jabs, sides spin jabs to set up a better shot to open up on.

Felt like a smarter style.

As usual, my forehand sucks if I go for a kill shot still.  It's like 10% chance of doing what it should.  Roughly, 50% is hitting the edge of the blade and then hitting the opponent in the eye, and the other half going long or into the net.

I can do forehand everything else, including fishing and babying easily.  It's just the kill shot that eldudes me.  

I pray to the FH gods to allow me to kill it more.

I want to buy T05 soon for my fh and if it doesn't help I am going to be a defender.

I did very well as a defender even going 50% on games against one of the better Division 1 players out our club.  So it is not that bad.

 

I read from one of ZJK's videos, he mentioned he trains the slow topspin taken late against awkwardly placed balls a lot, using the topspin to control the ball. He mentions that during critical moments of a game, everyone is nervous and make more mistakes than usual, that's when the spin generation ability is important because it allows you to play very safe and yet still pose huge problems for the opponent.

The ones who start loopkills from the get go are either super well trained (you won't beat them anyways), or tend to make so many unforced errors that they generally beat themselves. 

Almost all my forehands that land on the table are babied or fished up with side spin and the players often miss the ball completely when they swing early at the table.

The bigger I swing the more I miss too.  Similarly, the earlier / closer to the table I am the more I miss = not having enough time to see how much the ball will dip or not dip due to the amount of spin...

---

I have been quieter on here because I have been playing less since starting work... Only getting a day or two a week on the tables... Sad.  

I feel improvement but my fh is still shitty mostly.

As much as I planned to return to competition, I feel down that I am too tired in the evening and have a kid to care for then who I can't put through a late night before a school day.

If I get a reprieve I will jump in on fill in for fixtures because I believe competition is essential.  I have had enough mucking around with mostly the same players for long enough.  

I reckon I can beat a good share of the second division of our club.  I just am not trained up or polished to be at near the top Div 1 as I was 15 years ago.  I know I can beat the top guys but not till I have gotten back into the trench and worked hard.

Surprisingly my forehand woke up for the first 2 hours.  I was only using the H3-50 on fh.  Mostly opening up on almost anything possible at the table was great, and I wasn't too bad from a distance with some winners...  I was quietly ecstatic in my heart...

I felt I dominated everyone I played including Bill who is my gauge.  

It was only after I started getting tired I started to lose the rhythm and the FH seemed to slowly go back to the abyss again.  

Still I believe it wasn't them playing worse but me playing well enough to close down their games.

My backhand was still there toward the end, it is quite lightning fast like a clobbering machine with the big heavy carbon and dignics.  Wouldn't buy this 09c though... One of these days I will get dignics 05 or tenergy 05....

Weird about the H3-50 being the one my fh seemed to wake up on.  Must be it's a bit more predictable and forgiving to stop going long.

I miss the lightness of the versal a little, but wondering ever so slightly if a faster carbon + balsa blade might be better for me.  Lighter but with more punch.

Any how I think the h350 is not so tacky now and a bit friendlier to my type of silly stroke I was used to.  Doubt I will buy it again either.  Toward the end of play I felt I was bottoming it out or diving before the net like I used to gripe about it.

Hoping this H2 38 will be somewhere between..

I started off playing with the primorac but fh was still lacking with it, so I briefly tried versal (same as usual feels too slow for the bh punch) and then settled onto the ishlion h8 fh and old 09c bh.  

It took a while, but I clearly have my forehand clicking whenever I try to lower my eye level to the ball height.  If we recorded the session I reckon 50/50 at least my forehand kill shots were on and unreturnable.  That for me is pretty dam good odds / improvement to how bad it has been.  And not killing it only leaves me vulnerable to her driving wide on me.

It is not all about the fh kill.  I feel really strong and others have commented in my ability to defend.  I have spent a great deal of my time running back on my weak returns and feel confident in getting back in the games especially if I am using one of my carbon blades.

Tonight, I am free to go play fixtures but am not sure if my body is up for more, and whether I can get in on a team.  I am half tempted to finally buy that 05.

Oddly,  although I could use chinese on the bh and 'almost' anything on my backhand, it has been becoming clearer the more orthodox approach like the Chinese players is worth sticking with as long as I wait on a fh instead of wait on a backhand.

I have been twiddling for serves simply.  It's very natural to me.  Chinese is always for serving.

Spent 90% of today on my weaknesses: my fh clipping the left of the ball serve and fh loop.  I wonder if I will reverse that once real competition starts.  

I plan that if I have a lead of 2 points to focus on winning with weaknesses.  Otherwise all comp will be on strengths.

Lowering eye height to ball level definitely helps (the shorter the distance between the eyes and the ball the more accurately you can gauge its position). 

More annoying are those arenas with terrible lighting (and a lot of them have absolutely terrible lighting haha), so the ball almost disappears from sight midway through which makes tracking the ball even harder. Sometimes TT is about having excellent eyesight too!

For me and my eyes that blur with age, and when tired dam dam hard.

I used to wear a cap when I first got into competition because the amount of fluro love was unbearable.  

Serving my beloved ceiling height serve is a no no in competition because I get blinded and then behind the 8 ball for the following shots.

---

After lots of calling around, I'm on a Div 1 team for tonight.  Excited!

Haven't played comp for bloody ages.  This will be my first true test since returning to the sport in the last year for sure.  Playing strangers probably, sussing them out ....  

Even if I lose 3 I will get a gauge.  I will learn and come back.

I will post my results once they come in (sad or not)

wish me luck!

The first match I don't think I should have lost.  The lady had a great fh for sure.  Gayle, has a frustrating extremely slow sp bh that makes the contrast all that harder. But I just didn't bite the bullet and open up with confidence at all.  Competition jitters?  Dunno what but I just didn't feel like I do when it's not competition.  I just need to go for it.

The second match was nothing special, against a short pip smasher with LP on backhand.  I started letting loose on their serves and getting some good fh winners in.

They all knew my weakness because I have played Simon many times in practise who was my third match.

I actually used to beat him 50/50 in games off the cards, but all that worked against me, he knew my serves and weaknesses and now seems he also was hiding some of his best serves for 'real' matches.

I thought we were pretty close apart from really poor return of serve for the first 2 games (would have won otherwise)  in the third I started returning the serves well and the rally lengths increased but again I was just not feeling in the zone with pulling the trigger on shots I should have.

He ultimately beat me with serves I know how to receive but just didn't concentrate well on (something like that...)  and he just played a careful controlled blocking pushing game mostly...

It was a good experience to work out how I am competition wise.  Players that look like they have nothing to beat me with actually do.

I can't say I enjoyed the night.  Even winning a match didn't make me happy.  Not sure what is going on with my frame of mind.  I think overall, I remember why I stopped playing fixtures.

1. 3 hours is spent playing 3 singles and 1 doubles.  

2.  Getting home at 10.30pm  

3. The general atmosphere of the place was neutral to slightly blah blah... Not sure how to express it... Some smiles on faces but most looked like they weren't having fun....  

That should be taken into contrast where I would say there are a lot more smiles on faces at social/practise times, where we play games but don't really give a *&^%

Overall,  great experience that I didn't really enjoy.

Equipment wise.  The 09c felt like overkill since I didn't really penetrate into the depth of the rubber successfully in the matches 99% of the time.  The Hurricane 8 was the same.  

So I felt slightly softer rubbers would be better.  The fast ishlion felt fine.  

I think these overly competitive amateurs ruin the fun at lots of competitions. I like the social/practice sessions a lot more, but tbh I don't play all that much these days either (only 1/week). The most fun aspect about table tennis is the progression / improvement. 

On the topic of points.  Yes I lost almost 200 points off my rating.   Oh well.  When I get my fh back I should see slow climb back...  I am not in love with numbers anyways.  It's just a little painful to see such 'confirmations' of my fall from grace.

I finally glued down my new 2 month in transit H2 38 degrees black that I boosted about 3 layers and I have to say this is the best my forehand has been (since coming back to the sport) and the rubber softness, tack everything was perfect.

I actually pulled off my 40 something degrees H2 on the versal for this and I am not sorry.  I felt like I just gained ton of control in my loops and it was just in the magic zone.  I still have a red hard H2 on the backhand and I never twiddled once and found that I was two wing looping all night.  Sure I missed 30% but that's awesome for me.  

So much control and still could pull of winners when positioning them well.

To top it off my fh traditional left-clip of the ball serve came back 100% tonight.

My short game returned magically strong.  

And just had a great night.

I won about 70% of the first half of the points and then as I got tired started dropping off about 40%.

All up, love H2 38 tripple boosted on the versal, and prefer the Old red H2 over the old dignics hands down.  I just felt I had more bite and even though I slowed the pace of the game down, it was still a looping fest for me against Bill.  

38 is the magic number!

layer 1 is probably thicker because the rubber is flat or slightly anti domed sometimes.

layers after that are just a couple of drops.

I just rub it around with my finger.  It's baby oil after all.  :)

All up I doubt I use more than a tablespoon.  It spreads really well and you don't want it everywhere.

So maybe 10ml?

I tend to not rush it and just let it sit like that for a few days before gluing.

This is the bottle I got and I reckon I have enough for 10 years...

Australian dollars:

$2.40

https://shop.coles.com.au/a/national/product/cub-baby-oil-crc

It's just mineral oil.

You will need to get rid of the glue layer if you are putting this on a used sheet or those NEO varieties otherwise you will get glue that never dries a bigger slimey snotty mess!

Stay away from TT rubbers that have a weak bond between topsheets and sponge.

I use H2 because it has the widest pips to help keep the strong bond.

Hehe I always get a couple into my games. The feeling of finishing the point off with a spectacular loop is the best xD. 

---

I'm looking to order more rubbers since they take so long to arrive...  I don't need now but will.  And I seem to run about 3 blades for testing how I do... and have at least 2 blades at the club in case something goes wrong with one.

I am wondering if my time with H3-50 and finally not liking it should not deter me from trying H3 38 regular.

Since I like the 38 degrees so much I will be positing/editing this post with Aliexpress price with links.  Aliexpress search is really bad for finding the cheapest specific product...

it seems links dont work well so copy paste into address bar is the only solution:

38 degrees specified AUD + free shipping

H2 $23   https://www.aliexpress.com/item/735262835.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/735262835.html

H3 $24 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1614678828.html

H3 $25 but $4 discount for over $40 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32857131629.html

I won't puchase until I have played with my new H2 38 on the BH and see how that feels.  Since I felt the hardness of 40+ (not sure what but 40 or over) wasn't bad and actually good for punch/driving when it's a bit older.

I seriously felt for the first half of play like my forehand was as good as it had ever been!  WTF moment and just loving playing was TT heaven.  As usual it started getting worse but not so bad as its been...  

So I feel like it has come back!  My arm and shoulder are sore as F(*k because I swung so much...  Hopefully no injury, just sore...

I played for the 1st hour with VB endless games and didn't lose 1.  I am not sure of his level but he can attack well...

One particular point was absolutely amazing.  I was trialling the 38 on my bh so the hard h2 was on FH and after a few rally shots we got into a full powered long distance fh to fh 2 or 3 in a row.  They were blitz speed.  And we got a clap from one watcher on since we were on table one.  LOL at least someone got to watch.  Wish I got that point on video... We looked like Pros for a 20 seconds 

So the important thing is how I found the 38 on the backhand.  

1.  Up close to the table, like warm up rally Backhand to backhand, the 38 is an absolute best rubber ever.  It just couter loops perfectly with its low trajectory and bite on the ball.  You really can kill it if you know where there ball is landing all the time!

2.  But in game play you don't know where they will land it, and taking a few steps back for my bh at least I felt like I was not getting much of the catapult speed so it's a tough call.  

3.  Even though I did feel it bottom out a bit on FH and therefore really flat trajectory from a distance... like I mentioned in my fixture night, A greater majority of the time playing a harder sponge is overkill or just not how I hit with my fh (yet maybe)... 

---

So although I could use 38 on bh and it is better close to the table than the harder H2s once I am away from the table, I really need a bit more 'oooomph' and the old red 40+ degrees H2 is a winner there.

I highly doubt the H3 38 would be any better in the forward kick than H2 so don't think I will bother.

---

Final thoughts,  H2 38 baby oiled reminds me of a tackier tenergy 25 fx.  

There is so much control on the shorter length of looping against under, no and top spin at the table.  And for some reason it suits my forehand from far away.

Looks like I will be slowly building up all the muscles gradually for the FH.  There is a limit to how much my arm can take and I will need to pace the FH amounts just not to injure myself.

I tried a bit more 38 on the backhand today once I got really tired.  I am so tempted to try to get used to it from a distance some how but it really does take so much work.  It really does kill shots at the table more consistantly though.   Opening up on long serves H2 38 no matter the side, is just as good as it gets.

Definitely have to be careful with those, it's important to slowly ramp up the intensity especially after not playing for a long time. I learnt it the hard way from my previous wrist injury.... especially if you have a powerful FH, there's quite a lot of energy travelling through the joints/ligaments every time you swing the ball, regardless of whether or not you're using the body or not. For me due to my prev injury I'm always afraid to swing hard on the BH  so it's a lot more focus on earlier timing, consistency, spin variation and placement rather than just outright going for winners. Using a fast bouncy rubber helps too 

I was not sure today whether I would play but went in knowing I would avoid my big FH attemtps.  

I actually spent for the first time 20 minutes trying to chop the ball with normal rubbers.  It's I must say something I think I have almost never ever done.  Sure I have with pips but not inverted.... So there is always something to do when one muscle group is on the mend.

I spent a lot of time twiddling the hardnesses today... Seeing if 38 or 40 really is so much better on one side or not...

Not much change of opinion, I don't remember counter looping and opening up on serves so well at the table with my BH as I did with 38. I can seriously surprise so many players who have opened up on a big spinny loop not expecting to get counter looped off the bounce.  It really does take a big BIG stroke but that is my expertise (Im shitty on fh though trying to do that).  That muscle group is hurting too...

Away from the table I started finding similarly that I reckon I can adapt but it is a bit less powerful, but more arc-ish.  

Today was a bad day for play, it was raining and I forgot my towel and went through 3 shirts in no time with water drips everywhere and I finally gave up 2 hours into playing because I just couldn't find anything to dry my hands.  It's bad when your grip on the handle slips and you can't put a dry ball into your serving hand.

Great day all up with my Tuesday training partners:   Shane, Eric,, Jimmy and good old Dennis.  4 Chinese in order of age from 20s to 70s.  They are all great players....

Dennis plays LP one side and can beat a hell of a lot players that are higher up.  He does this frustrating downward hit shot often that you would think is a kind smash but actually is backspin.

---

Just ordered...

With GST let's call H2 38 $26 AUD received.  I am guessing it will take at least another month to get but I am not in a rush.  

Easily beat him, and all those serves I missed last week were the same but my mind was clearer today and had no problems with them.  I was happy after those 3 games and then went to focussing on my weak serves and fh again.  Ended up 50/50 but the important thing was the first 3 games to prove a point.  :)

Good session of TT for about 2.5 hours.  My fh was as before, pretty good for the first hour and then just goes to the abyss by the end of the day... 

My fh is always good from a distance in big FH to FH looping.... I just can't get it to stay good near the table against a variety of spins that I just haven't had enough time to groove.

The 38 seems less stable on either wing from a distance.  Less drivey but can be more flingy to make up for it.

Have you tried Dignics 09c? I saw your playing video and it looks like you would own with Dignics. I used to use Chinese rubbers, but they were inconsistent and lacked durability. I know it's expensive, but the durability might save you money in the long run and treat yourself, you're worth it :D 

I tried very briefly some new sheets but mostly used old 09c.  Can't say I have really used the stuff.  But I felt the H2 40 degrees baby oiled has been pretty dam good as a BH rubber and I might not improve even if I used butterfly's best.

I have shared on pages of this thread my feelings about the price.  If anything I am very close to buying many time T or D 05...  One of these days.... I will bite that bullet.  The speed can be great, and a problem for me too.

Thanks for your kind words.  

If I had a video camera still I'd make some vids, but $ is the factor for me these days since Covid took away my proper line of work and now I have reverted to working in a field I make 3xless 

The money I have I feel is best spent paying $12 a session at the club.  I think I have been averaging about 3 x a week for the last 6 months (I think).

I drool over premium rubbers and robots too though.  

cheers.

I do like being able to slow the game down a hell of a lot as being my quirk in the game.  Some people have this weird one side pip to do it, I have a slow balsa blade with tacky slowish rubbers.  I can still loop the hell out of the ball, counter loop in offensive rallies but also block super short and keep the game at a pace others get frustrated by...

Not sure how long this will last.

I enjoy playing with a slow setup too, makes the game peaceful. That's awesome you're at 6 months. What made you step away from the game and go into ebikes? 

You know I never thought about till now, but I stopped riding bikes last year because I got sick of fixing them and again the cost of ebikes is very high....  A battery for my bike is over $1000  AUD...

My foruming never stopped just went to endlesssphere  https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=112030&p=1659431#p1658777" rel="nofollow - https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=112030&p=1659431#p1658777

Why start riding them?  If you like mountain bike riding, but like riding uphill as fast as you do downhill...  it's called the ebike grin...  not sure if you saw my ebike channel but the vids should inspire:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kykW4p6D4c&list=PLhmNPJvDkKg7jlbtXLrGyAYE8YuBJc19A

Living in Thailand slowed down my progression of partner and venues for TT, on return I was suddenly married and a kid.... so time is the biggest reason.... work come home, not fair to leave the family alone....

Now my kids older and I got no other outlet without the bikes to get out and start enjoying me time.

You should get a bike man, I knew a guy share some footage of his high powered EMTB around Hawaii and the place looks so epic to ride!

Weird how playing against some people my equipment feels good and against others too slow.

Not much to report except that I must be getting fitter because 4 hours of straight play is quite a mamoth effort and I don't feel to sore...

I'm down to about 85kg these days.  Which I have seemed to sat on now for many months... Having said that my arms in particular feel much stronger.  My bicep didn't feel like this 6 months ago...

So I have probably lost more weight but converted it to muscle.

I'm far from healthy, but I am better than I was.

I don't think H2 38 is going to be a wise idea on both sides.  The 40 is clearly more powerful and beneficial for so many shots.  Not sorry I bought another, because I want to put the red one on my other blade to see how it plays on the carbon....  

---

Had an awkward moment while playing those final games.  Must have been on of his friends/future opponents who asked me what do you find troubling about playing him, and I said nothing.

It was the truth.  Just because someone beats me, or has good shots or a good serve doesn't mean it is 'troubling'.  

I just said my own execution of my strengths is troubling me.

That was the truth in my eyes.  I was doing in my mind unforced errors.

Have I ever had players who had things touble me?  ABSOLUTELY.  

There are players whose serves I just cannot for the life of me work out.  They usually are like the top players in the state mind you.  That troubles me to hell.  And then there can be players who in the past I just couldn't work out how to control there attacks at all... As in if you tried to block them you wouldn't be able to... But not many of those players would give me the time of day to practise with...

Really good SP players can really trouble me too.  Because they hit so dam flat and fast its hard to play against.

Anyhow, he's a good kid and got a bit upset that I said nothing troubled me about his shots.  

I am not egotistical here.  I just think people need to get to grips with the fact that some players have been playing at a much higher level and against a lot higher level than they are at now.

I am not ego massager nor popper, I just like to say how I see it, like it or not.

He's good guy though and I reckon he's on the right track to being really troubling.

That makes sense why you took a break for TT, family comes first. Does the kid have TT prospect? That's funny you say I should get an ebike, I live literally right next to a sweet mountain bike track. I hike it occasionally in the mornings, I was there this morning and pondered about getting a mountain bike.