Print Page | Close Window

JOOLA Global Championships

Printed From: Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET
Category: General
Forum Name: General
Forum Description: This forum is for general discussions about table tennis.
Moderator: NextLevel
Assistant Moderators: position available

URL: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=91440
Printed Date: 10/04/2022 at 4:36pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: JOOLA Global Championships
Posted By: PingPongPom
Subject: JOOLA Global Championships
Date Posted: 02/24/2022 at 10:19am
Orlando Florida September 1-4

Event will be run by North American Table Tennis and JOOLA
There is $100,000 in the prize pool, here are some of the featured prize money stats:

- Open Singles Champion $25,000!
- There are $1000 prizes for Collegiate Men's and Women's Singles
- There are over $2000 in prizes for school events - High School, Middle School and Elementary
- There is over $4000 up for grabs for the over 30 singles events alone. - There is prize money in over 40, 50 and 60 events in the hundreds for both singles and doubles. Right now the earlybird entry fee is $299. Here is the homepage for the event: http://joola.com/events/global-championships/" rel="nofollow - https://joola.com/events/global-championships/ Here is the registration and prize money breakdown: http://natabletennis.com/tournaments/register.php?tournament=1" rel="nofollow - http://natabletennis.com/tournaments/register.php?tournament=1


-------------
http://mhtabletennis.com



Replies:
Posted By: DonnOlsen
Date Posted: 02/24/2022 at 12:26pm
Originally posted by PingPongPom PingPongPom wrote:

Orlando Florida September 1-4

Event will be run by North American Table Tennis and JOOLA
There is $100,000 in the prize pool, here are some of the featured prize money stats:

- Open Singles Champion $25,000!
- There are $1000 prizes for Collegiate Men's and Women's Singles
- There are over $2000 in prizes for school events - High School, Middle School and Elementary
- There is over $4000 up for grabs for the over 30 singles events alone. - There is prize money in over 40, 50 and 60 events in the hundreds for both singles and doubles. Right now the earlybird entry fee is $299. Here is the homepage for the event: http://joola.com/events/global-championships/" rel="nofollow - https://joola.com/events/global-championships/ Here is the registration and prize money breakdown: http://natabletennis.com/tournaments/register.php?tournament=1" rel="nofollow - http://natabletennis.com/tournaments/register.php?tournament=1

OK, sure, fine; it looks fabulous but does NATT have ANY experience organizing and operating large tournaments of this size?

Thanks.


-------------
Tenergy: Two weeks of heaven, followed by three months of excellence, then, a nice rubber.


Posted By: PingPongPom
Date Posted: 02/24/2022 at 2:00pm
The teams every year and us nationals and open prior to 2019, so yes a fair bit :)

-------------
http://mhtabletennis.com


Posted By: PingPongPom
Date Posted: 02/28/2022 at 1:26pm
There's also over $5000 in the hardbat and sandpaper events, as well as prize money all the way up to the over 60 events. Early entry is limited to the first 100 entrants, so best not to wait if you are interested :) 

-------------
http://mhtabletennis.com


Posted By: FS1
Date Posted: 03/08/2022 at 4:54pm
Now that is a way to bring the sport together. I see you are includin HS and college tt. Well done 


Posted By: PingPongPom
Date Posted: 03/11/2022 at 1:18pm
Originally posted by FS1 FS1 wrote:

Now that is a way to bring the sport together. I see you are includin HS and college tt. Well done 

Dare I say, somebody should be doing it! :D Karakasevic just entered, there is a lot of interest from the pro side, so we could really get some fantastic matches. Pistej wants in on the sandpaper and it's looking like Baggaley could show up, so that would be epic as well!


-------------
http://mhtabletennis.com


Posted By: PingPongPom
Date Posted: 06/19/2022 at 12:00pm
Anyone interested in entering there are three weeks left to the deadline. I have coupon codes for $100 discount on entry for anyone who wants them! :)

-------------
http://mhtabletennis.com


Posted By: PingPongPom
Date Posted: 06/27/2022 at 9:49am
Price has been lowered to $299 for up to 8 events for everyone. Baggaley, Szymanski and Gorak are all confirmed (means there will be some good sandpaper action too!) and Keinath is looking likely also.

Every single playing court will have rubber flooring for all matches. This is really a massive effort, so far the entry numbers are a little on the slow side which is somewhat disappointing, hopefully more players will see this is going to be a great event and get entered!

-------------
http://mhtabletennis.com


Posted By: PingPongPom
Date Posted: 07/30/2022 at 5:42pm
Last day to enter tomorrow, been hearing rumors of cancellation - not true at all, event is going ahead as planned! Hope to see some of you there.

-------------
http://mhtabletennis.com


Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 09/03/2022 at 12:57pm
Live on Youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rwf5dPShDr4" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rwf5dPShDr4


-------------
https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Mazunov
FH: TBD (MX-S, C1)
BH: C1
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...


Posted By: ZApenholder
Date Posted: 09/03/2022 at 10:48pm
Joola USA should host the world team champs final 2022


Posted By: DonnOlsen
Date Posted: 09/04/2022 at 7:59am
And the results may be found at?

-------------
Tenergy: Two weeks of heaven, followed by three months of excellence, then, a nice rubber.


Posted By: pongfugrasshopper
Date Posted: 09/04/2022 at 8:25am
Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

And the results may be found at?
http://natabletennis.com/tournaments/results.php" rel="nofollow - http://natabletennis.com/tournaments/results.php

Choose "2022 JOOLA Global Championships" in the drop down box near the top.


Posted By: PingPongPom
Date Posted: 09/04/2022 at 9:13am
Today’s livestreams:

Doubles Finals:  https://youtu.be/EWQ05C3xM80" rel="nofollow - https://youtu.be/EWQ05C3xM80


-------------
http://mhtabletennis.com


Posted By: PingPongPom
Date Posted: 09/04/2022 at 11:14am
Open Singles and Women's Singles semifinals and finals

Live:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mV84oo96-bI" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mV84oo96-bI


-------------
http://mhtabletennis.com


Posted By: pongfugrasshopper
Date Posted: 09/04/2022 at 11:17am
SF and Finals now:




Posted By: pongfugrasshopper
Date Posted: 09/04/2022 at 11:46am
Wow, Amy Wang made Lily Zhang look like an amateur.


Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 09/04/2022 at 1:42pm
Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:

Wow, Amy Wang made Lily Zhang look like an amateur.

It is inherent in the matchup. Lily usually doesnt get pressured on the BH diagonal but that is Amy's overwhelming strength. 


-------------
https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Mazunov
FH: TBD (MX-S, C1)
BH: C1
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...


Posted By: cloudwalker
Date Posted: 09/04/2022 at 2:43pm
Lily kept serving the same dinky no spin serve to the same spot over and over, getting back hand flip killed almost every single time...


Posted By: DonnOlsen
Date Posted: 09/04/2022 at 3:43pm
Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:

Wow, Amy Wang made Lily Zhang look like an amateur.

Thought One
This is simple, very simple.  Amy drives the ball hard; Lily does not.  That's it.  Full stop.

Viewed from the perspective of the designation of "professional player," a term used to indicate the highest of standards, Lily's game is a mess.  Clearly there are not the products of hard, demanding, discomforting training and competition; the intensity is not there, the precision is not there, the stability is not there, the physicality is not there.

Floating around in the lap of low intensity luxury does not professional hardness make.  

Thought Two
I really like people like Amy Wang.  Look at all the 13 year olds who drop out of the sport, and the 14 year olds, and the 16 year olds.  Amy kept going and going.  She is such a fine and impressive player.  She is a role model.

Let us also acknowledge the contribution here of Lily Yip's Center.  Much influential credit should be paid to the environment they have created for Amy's development.  They should be justly proud of their participation in Amy's success.

Thanks.




-------------
Tenergy: Two weeks of heaven, followed by three months of excellence, then, a nice rubber.


Posted By: pongfugrasshopper
Date Posted: 09/04/2022 at 5:41pm
Winner: Horacio Cifuentes $25,000
Runner Up: Kou Lei $10,000

For comparison, winner of a WTT Contender Tunis won $5,000; runner up was $2,500


Posted By: DonnOlsen
Date Posted: 09/04/2022 at 6:12pm
And, from the perspective of Lily, all you can say is Thank God for that phony ITTF ranking system that affords her all sorts of undeserved and unchallenged opportunities.

-------------
Tenergy: Two weeks of heaven, followed by three months of excellence, then, a nice rubber.


Posted By: PingPongPom
Date Posted: 09/04/2022 at 7:41pm
It’s pretty poor form to judge a player so much on a single match result Donn. Need you be reminded that Lily Zhang has set records and been a trailblazer for womens table tennis in this country. I think you need to put your opinions in check. Lily is flying to Oman tonight for another WTT event then to Kazakshtan before WTTC - how many other players do you see out there doing that? 

She is doing what other players don’t have the commitment to do, so I think it’s fairly appalling to call her opportunities undeserved. 

I’m all for congratulating Amy, she played amazingly. But it’s absolutely SHAMEFUL to talk about Lily Zhang like that.


-------------
http://mhtabletennis.com


Posted By: amateur
Date Posted: 09/04/2022 at 8:01pm
Not the first time, in June there was a similar post. He's probably just jealous that she didn't hire him as her coach/manager/adviser. Or maybe there are other factors but I don't want to speculate, it's clearly "a mess."


Posted By: PingPongPom
Date Posted: 09/04/2022 at 8:12pm
I know first hand what Lily has been through to keep competing in this sport and Donn has zero clue all the things going on in the background. It’s very easy to judge people on a handful of results at face value and make rubbish assumptions about these players and I don’t intend to sit here and not defend her. How would usa table tennis look on the women’s side without Lily Zhang for the last decade I wonder? Just absolutely toxic commenting and totally baseless opinions.

-------------
http://mhtabletennis.com


Posted By: pongfugrasshopper
Date Posted: 09/04/2022 at 8:56pm
My only interaction I had with Lily is after a tough loss in the finals of a tournament.  She graciously stayed after the match to take pictures with fans (including myself)... she is a total class act.  She was one of pioneers (including Ariel) that paved the way for young girls across the USA.  

Whatever struggles she may have against Amy (tough style match ups happen), let's not forget that *this year* she's beaten: Chen Szu Yu, Asuka Sasao, Petrissa Solja.... and nearly beat Kasumi Ishikawa.


Posted By: bard romance
Date Posted: 09/04/2022 at 9:53pm
Donn, what do you know about Lily's training and what sources have provided her opportunities for training and competition lately? Because based on your comments, it seems you don't know a thing. 

Maybe hold off from making such critical and demeaning posts and acting all-knowing when you have little to zero knowledge of situations. The constant pleonasm, rife with false assumptions and statements, is tiring at best and pretentious misinformation at worst.

Amy played great. She has long given Lily trouble and it was a well deserved win with a lot of nets and edges that went Amy's way and set the tone for the match.  She is in great form after returning from her summer training in Europe - interesting that Donn would choose to single out the LYTTC for credit in the context of this match. 


Posted By: ZApenholder
Date Posted: 09/05/2022 at 12:50am
Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:

My only interaction I had with Lily is after a tough loss in the finals of a tournament.  She graciously stayed after the match to take pictures with fans (including myself)... she is a total class act.  She was one of pioneers (including Ariel) that paved the way for young girls across the USA.  

Whatever struggles she may have against Amy (tough style match ups happen), let's not forget that *this year* she's beaten: Chen Szu Yu, Asuka Sasao, Petrissa Solja.... and nearly beat Kasumi Ishikawa.


Lily is a good sport

I once greeted and said hi to Amy in a training hall, she didn't wave back.
She was still a kid (6 years ago) then and not some big shot team USA player.
Maybe she doesn't have PR skills then? or maybe that is just how she is, I don't know.

Never the less, energy and body language on the table, Lily is by far more appealing than Amy

Loosing is part of being a champion.
Loosing 1 match and getting bashed is part of being a champion
There is no doubt, Lily on the international front is a threat to many.

In USA, I think it is difficult for Lily to stay competitive as the competition is only from SF and Final (aka, the quality is so low, so how can you peak properly?). Other than money and loyalty (and contractual obligations), There isn't much point for Lily to even play TT tournaments in the USA.

So chin up and look at the bigger picture



Posted By: oldttguy
Date Posted: 09/05/2022 at 2:46am
Quote from Donn Olsen from 2012:
The heavens must be a generous place, for they gave us Lily Zhang.

Source: https://www.teamusa.org/USA-Table-Tennis/News/2012/April/22/Donn-Olsens-Blog" rel="nofollow - https://www.teamusa.org/USA-Table-Tennis/News/2012/April/22/Donn-Olsens-Blog

Must have been a really bitter falling out - well, at least for one person...



Posted By: Lightspin
Date Posted: 09/05/2022 at 3:43pm
I also hate the current world ranking system and have written about it here before.  It is what it is however and you cannot blame players as they just play.   

Lily is a professional player.  She made money at the tournament.  That is the bottom line.  She also probably had a lot of publicity to do and videos to shoot as the tournament sponsor is her sponsor.  She lost to Amy Wang.  So what?  She has a solid record and will be back.  Also as a professional player she is probably trying to peak for specific tournaments and maybe this wasn't one of them.  I personally would expect Lily to win, but she finished top 4.  Good for her and on to the next event. 


Posted By: PingPongPom
Date Posted: 09/05/2022 at 4:08pm
Originally posted by Lightspin Lightspin wrote:

Also as a professional player she is probably trying to peak for specific tournaments and maybe this wasn't one of them.

Exactly, she was there ahead of a busy international schedule because we asked her to be there to compete and she obliged. It’s also worth noting that international competitors aren’t used to playing with a seamless ball like the flash. The players who had pips or drove the ball more definitely seemed to play better at the event.


-------------
http://mhtabletennis.com


Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 09/05/2022 at 4:12pm
Originally posted by PingPongPom PingPongPom wrote:

Originally posted by Lightspin Lightspin wrote:

Also as a professional player she is probably trying to peak for specific tournaments and maybe this wasn't one of them.

Exactly, she was there ahead of a busy international schedule because we asked her to be there to compete and she obliged. It’s also worth noting that international competitors aren’t used to playing with a seamless ball like the flash. The players who had pips or drove the ball more definitely seemed to play better at the event.

Why did Joola use that ball?  Why not a seamed ball?


-------------
https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Mazunov
FH: TBD (MX-S, C1)
BH: C1
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...


Posted By: PingPongPom
Date Posted: 09/05/2022 at 4:12pm
Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:


I really like people like Amy Wang.  Look at all the 13 year olds who drop out of the sport, and the 14 year olds, and the 16 year olds.  Amy kept going and going.  She is such a fine and impressive player.  She is a role model.


Also ironic to mention this whilst talking down on a player who is 26 years old and kept going and going, and has a college degree in Psychology but has stayed in the sport the entire time without foresaking her education. She juggled both at the same time and remained in competition at TTs highest levels. 


-------------
http://mhtabletennis.com


Posted By: Twiddler
Date Posted: 09/05/2022 at 4:32pm
I root for Lily and Amy. They are both top notch. I believe the point Donn is making has merit. He is not putting Lily down just making an observation that her techniques haven't kept improving. 


Posted By: stiltt
Date Posted: 09/05/2022 at 5:02pm
Originally posted by PingPongPom PingPongPom wrote:

Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:


I really like people like Amy Wang.  Look at all the 13 year olds who drop out of the sport, and the 14 year olds, and the 16 year olds.  Amy kept going and going.  She is such a fine and impressive player.  She is a role model.


Also ironic to mention this whilst talking down on a player who is 26 years old and kept going and going, and has a college degree in Psychology but has stayed in the sport the entire time without foresaking her education. She juggled both at the same time and remained in competition at TTs highest levels. 
I hope she is remembered for that: people have been telling 18yo high level players "you need to choose between college and high level competitive table tennis", she answered "I do not!" as in "I want it all." and she did get it all. I remember when she said in an interview that one of her teachers from whom she was seeking counsel told her "You need to do what makes you feel alive." and oh boy if she did! No matter what, we'll never forget that 1/2 final at the world cup and Liu Guoliand applauding at her smash off the bounce v. Liu Shiwen, what a point! I saw it live and I thought she'd win. She gave us that moment and to me it places her in the pantheon of American TT forever.

-------------
/forum/topic91512_page1.html#1124698" rel="nofollow - sales - forum_posts.asp?TID=19315" rel="nofollow - feedback


Posted By: amateur
Date Posted: 09/05/2022 at 5:18pm
Geez, have we all forgotten already who won the first WTTC medal for USATT in 62 years? That wasn't Kanak Jha. Don't let a nasty old man try to tarnish an outstanding record with cheap personal attacks disguised as technical analysis.


Posted By: PingPongPom
Date Posted: 09/05/2022 at 6:34pm
Originally posted by Twiddler Twiddler wrote:

I root for Lily and Amy. They are both top notch. I believe the point Donn is making has merit. He is not putting Lily down just making an observation that her techniques haven't kept improving. 

I mean if saying her opportunities are undeserved and that she hasn’t put in the effort and lays in low luxury isn’t putting her down I don’t know what to tell you lol


-------------
http://mhtabletennis.com


Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 09/05/2022 at 7:30pm
I am broadly a fan of many players, harsh criticism and disparaging opinions of public figures is usually par for the course in the USA, though I can understand the view that considers such opinions toxic.  There are people who think jt was a travesty that Adriana Diaz made the top 10, I don't agree it is a travesty but it is about how the new system gives continental points extra weight.

Lily has had good results, but I understand aspects of where Donn and Twiddler are coming from, and I also understand how people can take issue with Donn's use of the phrase "undeserving".  I will defer to world class players like Twiddler to point out that Lily's game doesn't seem to have show major changes in the technical elements that one would expect (serve and receive), while accepting that someone with intimate knowledge of Lily might see it differently. All that said, a world class coach once told me one of the hardest things to do is to convince established successful players to take risks with what works in their game.  But it will be interesting to see whether Lily expands her serve and return repertoire anytime soon or takes the risk to learn how to play fuller strokes in doubles (her WTTC medal notwithstanding, her lack of such strokes clearly put more pressure on Lin Gaoyuan).


-------------
https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Mazunov
FH: TBD (MX-S, C1)
BH: C1
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...


Posted By: DonnOlsen
Date Posted: 09/05/2022 at 8:09pm
No player deserves to qualify for national representation to international competitions based upon the ITTF ranking system.  No player.  The Japanese don't qualify using the ITTF ranking system.  The Chinese don't qualify using the ITTF ranking system.

-------------
Tenergy: Two weeks of heaven, followed by three months of excellence, then, a nice rubber.


Posted By: amateur
Date Posted: 09/05/2022 at 8:17pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

There are people who think jt was a travesty that Adriana Diaz made the top 10, I don't agree it is a travesty but it is about how the new system gives continental points extra weight.

The "new" (current) system actually doesn't give continental events much weight at all, that was a transitional period. And it seems the future world ranking will be decisive for Olympic singles qualifying (regardless of national selection criteria), so the next couple of years should be interesting in that respect.



Posted By: bard romance
Date Posted: 09/05/2022 at 9:50pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Lily has had good results, but I understand aspects of where Donn and Twiddler are coming from, and I also understand how people can take issue with Donn's use of the phrase "undeserving". 

There is an element of Donn constantly acting like an expert and insider when he is neither that will rub people who are privy to inside information the wrong way. 
 

In this case, taking exception to him making demeaning and baseless assumptions about her training and work ethic based on his own interpretation of her match results and how her game has or hasn't progressed. Any good coach should know that results-based analysis without proper context and sufficient background information is useless. He doesn't even seem to know the basics of her training situation given that in June he stated  http://mytabletennis.net/forum/wtt-contender-zagreb-2022-lima-2022-6-1319_topic91776_post1127747.html" rel="nofollow - "Lily is not training hard with players at or above her level"  - a laughable suggestion given her regular training with Kou Lei, Zhou Xin, and others. So why make comments like this?

But this sounds far more personal. Funny to see how we've come from  https://mytabletennis.net/FORUM/usa-pan-am-teams_topic86446_page5.html" rel="nofollow - this post  to bashing her for staying in the "American-level table tennis environment". Maybe he realized that she wasn't taking heed of his "periodic observations" and "lengthy analysis"?

Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

Originally posted by bard romance bard romance wrote:

Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:

Lily will be playing Bruna in the QF.

As someone who has helped Lily with her game since she was 14 and a big fan, this match makes me nervous.  Bruna is a contender for the title, a player that is capable of high level play.  Yes, Lily is the better player, however Bruna is a great competitor.  If Lily is coached properly and is strong emotionally, Lily will win.  Other variables that arise may make this the match of the tournament on the Women's side.

Fingers crossed.


Can you elaborate on how you've helped her with her game since she was 14?
Oh, only in minor ways.  Back then, she used to carry my first book around with her for some time as she worked on developing her mature game.  I developed a lengthy analysis of her game that she found helpful on foundational matters.  I've provided periodically some observations throughout the years on many of her matches which she has expressed appreciation.  My contribution to her impressive development is unquestionably very thin, as she has become what she has through the finest qualities of a high achieving person.  To develop how she has coming out of the American-level table tennis environment is an accomplishment of individual persistence and dedication worthy of the highest respect.


Posted By: stiltt
Date Posted: 09/06/2022 at 12:37am
patt patt patt patt patatras...

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xp0xo" rel="nofollow - https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xp0xo



-------------
/forum/topic91512_page1.html#1124698" rel="nofollow - sales - forum_posts.asp?TID=19315" rel="nofollow - feedback


Posted By: pongfugrasshopper
Date Posted: 09/06/2022 at 3:58am
Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

There are people who think jt was a travesty that Adriana Diaz made the top 10, I don't agree it is a travesty but it is about how the new system gives continental points extra weight.

The "new" (current) system actually doesn't give continental events much weight at all, that was a transitional period. And it seems the future world ranking will be decisive for Olympic singles qualifying (regardless of national selection criteria), so the next couple of years should be interesting in that respect.

It's true that the WR results can only include the best of a player's Continental results (champs/games/cup), but Continental points are 25% more than a WTT Contender at the Winner/F/SF positions so I guess it depends on your definition of much weight at all.  Aside from Asia (men and women) and Europe (men), the draw for a WTT Contender event is considerably stronger than a Continental event.  But the ITTF has to balance between globalizing the sport and fairness.  Any imbalances created by the point scheme is going to be subjected to criticism.


Posted By: ZApenholder
Date Posted: 09/06/2022 at 4:50am
Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:

Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

There are people who think jt was a travesty that Adriana Diaz made the top 10, I don't agree it is a travesty but it is about how the new system gives continental points extra weight.

The "new" (current) system actually doesn't give continental events much weight at all, that was a transitional period. And it seems the future world ranking will be decisive for Olympic singles qualifying (regardless of national selection criteria), so the next couple of years should be interesting in that respect.

It's true that the WR results can only include the best of a player's Continental results (champs/games/cup), but Continental points are 25% more than a WTT Contender at the Winner/F/SF positions so I guess it depends on your definition of much weight at all.  Aside from Asia (men and women) and Europe (men), the draw for a WTT Contender event is considerably stronger than a Continental event.  But the ITTF has to balance between globalizing the sport and fairness.  Any imbalances created by the point scheme is going to be subjected to criticism.


Pros are clever.

They will look at the schedule and look at who is going to what and then either want to go and challenge China head on, or dodge  the strong players for another tournament that has the same points/money up for grabs.

There way too many tournaments now and cherry picking tournaments is a smart move.
It has always been a maths game and still is.

Just look at the juniors too, Korean, Taiwanese are dodging the Chinese very obviously.

I don't agree with having the same tournament in 2 continents in the same time (some times on the same dates), and of the same point/monies.
If there were to have 2 tournaments, at least the value of the tournament must be different, this is to prevent cherry picking. But WTT might want more pros going to places they haven't been before


Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 09/06/2022 at 5:41am
Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

There are people who think jt was a travesty that Adriana Diaz made the top 10, I don't agree it is a travesty but it is about how the new system gives continental points extra weight.

The "new" (current) system actually doesn't give continental events much weight at all, that was a transitional period. And it seems the future world ranking will be decisive for Olympic singles qualifying (regardless of national selection criteria), so the next couple of years should be interesting in that respect.


Interesting.  So you would argue Darko Jorgic, Qiu Dang, Sofia Polcanova and Adriana Diaz are not significantly benefiting from the system and are all top 10 players?


-------------
https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Mazunov
FH: TBD (MX-S, C1)
BH: C1
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...


Posted By: ZApenholder
Date Posted: 09/06/2022 at 5:49am
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

There are people who think jt was a travesty that Adriana Diaz made the top 10, I don't agree it is a travesty but it is about how the new system gives continental points extra weight.

The "new" (current) system actually doesn't give continental events much weight at all, that was a transitional period. And it seems the future world ranking will be decisive for Olympic singles qualifying (regardless of national selection criteria), so the next couple of years should be interesting in that respect.


Interesting.  So you would argue Darko Jorgic, Qiu Dang, Sofia Polcanova and Adriana Diaz are not significantly benefiting from the system and are all top 10 players?


They do benefit.
Just like Aruna.

End of the day, there is plenty of points up for grabs, and you still need to grab them.
Asians are late to this game, so they busy playing catch up.

What is nice on the ITTF website (not WTT) ranking list is, you can actually see how the players in the top 10 gets they points

And having a 100~150 points here or there, does make a huge different.
Check the list
https://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/2022_36_SEN_MS.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/2022_36_SEN_MS.html


Posted By: Twiddler
Date Posted: 09/06/2022 at 5:51am
For Lily to push to the next level- Top 10-- she needs to develop her FH and move out of the BH favored position. Also her service game is way too simple. 
Truth is -one can never stop exploring how to improve.



Posted By: amateur
Date Posted: 09/06/2022 at 6:45am
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

There are people who think jt was a travesty that Adriana Diaz made the top 10, I don't agree it is a travesty but it is about how the new system gives continental points extra weight.

The "new" (current) system actually doesn't give continental events much weight at all, that was a transitional period. And it seems the future world ranking will be decisive for Olympic singles qualifying (regardless of national selection criteria), so the next couple of years should be interesting in that respect.


Interesting.  So you would argue Darko Jorgic, Qiu Dang, Sofia Polcanova and Adriana Diaz are not significantly benefiting from the system and are all top 10 players?

I'm not going to defend the world ranking system, past or present. What I tried to point out is that the current system actually reduces significantly the role that continental competitions can play, with the limitation to just one result from the past 12 months. 500 points for the winner of the European championship (valid for one year) doesn't seem excessive to me compared to the points for other competitions, but others will of course say it should be worth zero since no Chinese were present.


Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 09/06/2022 at 7:13am
Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

There are people who think jt was a travesty that Adriana Diaz made the top 10, I don't agree it is a travesty but it is about how the new system gives continental points extra weight.

The "new" (current) system actually doesn't give continental events much weight at all, that was a transitional period. And it seems the future world ranking will be decisive for Olympic singles qualifying (regardless of national selection criteria), so the next couple of years should be interesting in that respect.


Interesting.  So you would argue Darko Jorgic, Qiu Dang, Sofia Polcanova and Adriana Diaz are not significantly benefiting from the system and are all top 10 players?

I'm not going to defend the world ranking system, past or present. What I tried to point out is that the current system actually reduces significantly the role that continental competitions can play, with the limitation to just one result from the past 12 months. 500 points for the winner of the European championship (valid for one year) doesn't seem excessive to me compared to the points for other competitions, but others will of course say it should be worth zero since no Chinese were present.

I think you can read the actual arguments from other people on this thread that the continental events can get you as many points as a placement in a WTT event that is beyond most players.  And one such result can have an outsize effect on your ranking.  Nothing to do with whether Chinese are present as you make out.  Yes only one such result *per player* is permitted by the new rules but the weighting is still outstandingly powerful and can help multiple players depending on the number of events and results.


-------------
https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Mazunov
FH: TBD (MX-S, C1)
BH: C1
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...


Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 09/06/2022 at 7:18am
Originally posted by Twiddler Twiddler wrote:

For Lily to push to the next level- Top 10-- she needs to develop her FH and move out of the BH favored position. Also her service game is way too simple. 
Truth is -one can never stop exploring how to improve.


She is comfortably the best female player in the USA - until her results significantly suffer, it will be hard to force her out of her comfort zone against most opponents.


-------------
https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Mazunov
FH: TBD (MX-S, C1)
BH: C1
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...


Posted By: amateur
Date Posted: 09/06/2022 at 7:29am
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

There are people who think jt was a travesty that Adriana Diaz made the top 10, I don't agree it is a travesty but it is about how the new system gives continental points extra weight.

The "new" (current) system actually doesn't give continental events much weight at all, that was a transitional period. And it seems the future world ranking will be decisive for Olympic singles qualifying (regardless of national selection criteria), so the next couple of years should be interesting in that respect.


Interesting.  So you would argue Darko Jorgic, Qiu Dang, Sofia Polcanova and Adriana Diaz are not significantly benefiting from the system and are all top 10 players?

I'm not going to defend the world ranking system, past or present. What I tried to point out is that the current system actually reduces significantly the role that continental competitions can play, with the limitation to just one result from the past 12 months. 500 points for the winner of the European championship (valid for one year) doesn't seem excessive to me compared to the points for other competitions, but others will of course say it should be worth zero since no Chinese were present.

I think you can read the actual arguments from other people on this thread that the continental events can get you as many points as a placement in a WTT event that is beyond most players.  And one such result can have an outsize effect on your ranking.  Nothing to do with whether Chinese are present as you make out.  Yes only one such result *per player* is permitted by the new rules but the weighting is still outstandingly powerful and can help multiple players depending on the number of events and results.

Dang Qiu has 500 from winning Euros and 400 from winning a WTT Contender. Jorgic has 500 from winning Euro Top 16 and 420 from reaching the final of a WTT Star Contender. Polcanova has 500 from winning Euros and 350 from reaching the QF of Singapore Smash. So it's not like their continental points are way above their other results - these players have that kind of level globally. (The one who's currently lacking a strong global result is Diaz, but give her some time.)

In any case, one will have to see how this will all shake out over a typical 12-month period, it's too early to tell. And the biggest factor may not be continental points but which Chinese/Japanese players get the opportunity to play WTT events. 


Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 09/06/2022 at 8:00am
Since you said China and Japan and nor Korea or Hong Kong or Chinese Taipei, you are confident that those higher ranked players would beat players from these countries?

The point is not that they aren't capable of one somewhat high point result, especially in the absence of lots of competition or with a good draw.  The point is whether they would be as highly ranked as they are without the continental bonus.  If one used an ELO based system like the old system or ratings central, would these players be top 10?  And does pointing this out make someone toxic?

And I would add Hugo and Quadri to this list as well.  And I am not arguing that Dang or Jorgic or Polcanova or Diaz are undeserving in some significant sense.  I am saying that this is what people usually mean by undeserving.


-------------
https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Mazunov
FH: TBD (MX-S, C1)
BH: C1
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...


Posted By: amateur
Date Posted: 09/06/2022 at 8:15am
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Since you said China and Japan and nor Korea or Hong Kong or Chinese Taipei, you are confident that those higher ranked players would beat players from these countries?

I wrote Chinese/Japanese because those associations seem to have dozens of players who could do well in WTT events and obtain significant points - it's more a matter of internal selection who gets the opportunities and thus the ranking points. 

As for "undeserving," "toxic," etc., those are not words I use, and I'm not going to continue this argument. I already said that I'm not going to defend the world ranking, or the whole WTT system for that matter.


Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 09/06/2022 at 8:58am
Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Since you said China and Japan and nor Korea or Hong Kong or Chinese Taipei, you are confident that those higher ranked players would beat players from these countries?

I wrote Chinese/Japanese because those associations seem to have dozens of players who could do well in WTT events and obtain significant points - it's more a matter of internal selection who gets the opportunities and thus the ranking points. 

As for "undeserving," "toxic," etc., those are not words I use, and I'm not going to continue this argument. I already said that I'm not going to defend the world ranking, or the whole WTT system for that matter.

Understood you don't use those words, I am using words that have been used on the thread to describe various positions or criticisms, and I am trying to show that a sympathetic understanding of people's positions on this topic doesn't require malicious intent to be attributed to them.

In general these are complex issues and I am sure that on complex issues I myself have been on both sides of the topic at various times.  As I said you can be a critic of Lily's play and argue that the current system gives her a ranking that is not in proportion with her performances without harboring some profound dislike for her (though the language used and the context of such a view may be limiting or limited).  


-------------
https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Mazunov
FH: TBD (MX-S, C1)
BH: C1
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...


Posted By: amateur
Date Posted: 09/06/2022 at 9:02am
The malicious comments were not limited to Lily's play or her world ranking but attacked her attitude, alleged lack of professionalism, inadequate work ethic, etc. No need to rehash all this, it's well documented now on this thread.


Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 09/06/2022 at 9:18am
Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

No player deserves to qualify for national representation to international competitions based upon the ITTF ranking system.  No player.  The Japanese don't qualify using the ITTF ranking system.  The Chinese don't qualify using the ITTF ranking system.

CTTA: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=92179&PID=1130718&title=wttc-finals-2022-chengdu-9-3010-9#1130718" rel="nofollow - Top 4 players by WR qualify for WTTC 2022
HKTTA: https://www.hktta.org.hk/aboutus/intro/2022-03-10%20Asian%20Games%202022%20-%20%E9%81%B4%E9%81%B8%E5%8F%8A%E4%B8%8A%E8%A8%B4%E6%A9%9F%E5%88%B6.pdf" rel="nofollow - Top 4 players by WR qualify for Asian Games 2022
CTTTA: https://www.cttta.org.tw/files/News/20221205460.jpg" rel="nofollow - Top 2 players by WR qualify for WTTC 2022 and Asian Games 2022
KTTA: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=91652&PID=1126089&title=ktta-2022-asian-games-cum-wttc-qualifier-4-1824#1126089" rel="nofollow - Top 1 player by WR qualify for WTTC 2022 and Asian Games 2022

JTTA: We have always wanted to qualify by WR but https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/showthread.php?24977-JTTA-Selection-System-to-be-Revamped-for-Paris-2024" rel="nofollow - the WTT event structure does not allow for equality of opportunity and so we have no choice but to go our own way.

-------------
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g


Posted By: bard romance
Date Posted: 09/06/2022 at 9:23am
Deleted


Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 09/06/2022 at 9:57am
Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

The malicious comments were not limited to Lily's play or her world ranking but attacked her attitude, alleged lack of professionalism, inadequate work ethic, etc. No need to rehash all this, it's well documented now on this thread.

You act as if people don't infer things from limited information about one's results/progress that could be wrong in the broader context of better information.  It is common practice amongst people in sports commentary and if we were to be honest, we all do it at some point or the other.  After all, you just said that the primary reason why people don't respect winning the European championships is because China isn't there, even though people clearly pointed out the disparate impact of continental ranking points on WTT rankings.

Donn's point was that not having seen any significant changes to Lily's game despite well known limitations is about her attitude to improvement, professionalism and work ethic.  This would hardly be different from someone saying that Quadri needs to work on his backhand and that his lack of improvement in that regard is a result of inadequate work etc.  It may very well be untrue, but judging by results is not uncommon in the world we live in.  That's why we have these conversations - to encourage reflection and antifragility.

Thanks for pointing out that the comments were "malicious".



-------------
https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Mazunov
FH: TBD (MX-S, C1)
BH: C1
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...


Posted By: amateur
Date Posted: 09/06/2022 at 11:02am
You're welcome.

As a matter of principle I'm uncomfortable "inferring" anything about an athlete's work ethic, off-court attitude, or lifestyle. We don't know all the circumstances, and it's none of our business anyway.


Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 09/06/2022 at 11:11am
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Since you said China and Japan and nor Korea or Hong Kong or Chinese Taipei, you are confident that those higher ranked players would beat players from these countries?

The point is not that they aren't capable of one somewhat high point result, especially in the absence of lots of competition or with a good draw.  The point is whether they would be as highly ranked as they are without the continental bonus.  If one used an ELO based system like the old system or ratings central, would these players be top 10?  And does pointing this out make someone toxic?

And I would add Hugo and Quadri to this list as well.  And I am not arguing that Dang or Jorgic or Polcanova or Diaz are undeserving in some significant sense.  I am saying that this is what people usually mean by undeserving.

I was curious. /s

https://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/2022_36_SEN_WS.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/2022_36_SEN_WS.html
Top 20
6 Hayata 2710-500+105=2315, highest point SCT 600
7 DHK 1670-90+5=1585, highest point SCT 420
8->12 Han Ying 1580-500+5=1085, highest point CCUP 500
10->13 Polcanova 1465-500+35=1000, highest point CC 500
11->17 Diaz 1355-500+35=890, highest point CC 500
12->9 YXX 1285-100+55=1240, highest point CT 400
13->26 Mittelham 1230-500+5=735, highest point CCUP 500
16->14 FTW 1099-100+0=999, highest point SCT 420
17->27 Shan Xiaona 970-350+25=645, highest point CC 350
19->28 Takahashi 945-350+45=640, highest point CC 350

| With continental result | W/O continental result  |
|----|-------------|------|----|-------------|------|
| 1 | SYS        | 5770 | 1 | SYS        | 5770 |
| 2 | CM          | 5575 | 2 | CM          | 5575 |
| 3 | WMY        | 4710 | 3 | WMY        | 4710 |
| 4 | WYD        | 4220 | 4 | WYD        | 4220 |
| 5 | Ito        | 2905 | 5 | Ito        | 2905 |
| 6 | Hayata      | 2710 | 6 | Hayata      | 2315 |
| 7 | DHK        | 1670 | 7 | DHK        | 1585 |
| 8 | Han Ying    | 1580 | 9 | Ishikawa    | 1575 |
| 9 | Ishikawa    | 1575 | 12 | YXX        | 1240 |
| 10 | Polcanova   | 1465 | 14 | Kihara      | 1225 |
| 11 | Diaz        | 1355 | 15 | JJH        | 1225 |
| 12 | YXX        | 1285 | 8 | Han Ying    | 1085 |
| 13 | Mittelham   | 1230 | 10 | Polcanova   | 1000 |
| 14 | Kihara      | 1225 | 16 | FTW        | 999 |
| 15 | JJH        | 1225 | 18 | Hirano      | 960 |
| 16 | FTW        | 1099 | 20 | CXT        | 900 |
| 17 | Shan Xiaona | 970 | 11 | Diaz        | 890 |
| 18 | Hirano      | 960 | 13 | Mittelham   | 735 | 26 in reality
| 19 | Takahashi   | 945 | 17 | Shan Xiaona | 645 | 27 in reality
| 20 | CXT        | 900 | 19 | Takahashi   | 640 | 28 in reality


-------------
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g


Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 09/06/2022 at 11:39am
Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

You're welcome.

As a matter of principle I'm uncomfortable "inferring" anything about an athlete's work ethic, off-court attitude, or lifestyle. We don't know all the circumstances, and it's none of our business anyway.

As a matter of principle and fact, there are ESPN/Fox Sports journalists in sports punditry who do exactly what you are uncomfortable with for a living, and most sports reporting is built on it.  Your position is understandable and principled, but I hope you do acknowledge that what I just wrote is factually based - a lot of TV commentary and fan opinion that helps support the sport's popularity is based on the very things you are uncomfortable with.  Donn is not one of those reporters, but what he wrote is par for the course for criticizing an athlete, and the kind of pushback he is getting is the exactly the same kind those journalists do.  The idea that it is none of our business is a bit rich on a TT forum.  The kind of conversation going on on this thread is exactly what a fan forum does.


-------------
https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Mazunov
FH: TBD (MX-S, C1)
BH: C1
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...


Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 09/06/2022 at 11:46am
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Since you said China and Japan and nor Korea or Hong Kong or Chinese Taipei, you are confident that those higher ranked players would beat players from these countries?

The point is not that they aren't capable of one somewhat high point result, especially in the absence of lots of competition or with a good draw.  The point is whether they would be as highly ranked as they are without the continental bonus.  If one used an ELO based system like the old system or ratings central, would these players be top 10?  And does pointing this out make someone toxic?

And I would add Hugo and Quadri to this list as well.  And I am not arguing that Dang or Jorgic or Polcanova or Diaz are undeserving in some significant sense.  I am saying that this is what people usually mean by undeserving.

I was curious. /s

Top 20
6 Hayata 2710-500+105=2315, highest point SCT 600
7 DHK 1670-90+5=1585, highest point SCT 420
8->13 Han Ying 1580-500+5=1085, highest point CCUP 500
10->14 Polcanova 1465-500+35=1000, highest point CC 500
11->17 Diaz 1355-500+35=890, highest point CC 500
12->9 YXX 1285-100+55=1240, highest point CT 400
13->18 Mittelham 1230-500+5=735, highest point CCUP 500
17->19 Shan Xiaona 970-350+25=645, highest point CC 350
19->20 Takahashi 945-350+45=640, highest point CC 350

| 1  | SYS         | 5770 | 1  | SYS         | 5770 |
| 2 | CM          | 5575 | 2 | CM          | 5575 |
| 3 | WMY        | 4710 | 3 | WMY        | 4710 |
| 4 | WYD        | 4220 | 4 | WYD        | 4220 |
| 5 | Ito        | 2905 | 5 | Ito        | 2905 |
| 6 | Hayata      | 2710 | 6 | Hayata      | 2315 |
| 7 | DHK        | 1670 | 7 | DHK        | 1585 |
| 8 | Han Ying    | 1085 | 9 | Ishikawa    | 1575 |
| 9 | Ishikawa    | 1575 | 12 | YXX        | 1240 |
| 10 | Polcanova   | 1000 | 14 | Kihara      | 1225 |
| 11 | Diaz        | 890 | 15 | JJH        | 1225 |
| 12 | YXX        | 1285 | 16 | FTW        | 1099 |
| 13 | Mittelham   | 735 | 8 | Han Ying    | 1085 |
| 14 | Kihara      | 1225 | 10 | Polcanova   | 1000 |
| 15 | JJH        | 1225 | 18 | Hirano      | 960 |
| 16 | FTW        | 1099 | 20 | CXT        | 900 |
| 17 | Shan Xiaona | 645 | 11 | Diaz        | 890 |
| 18 | Hirano      | 960 | 13 | Mittelham   | 735 |
| 19 | Takahashi   | 640 | 17 | Shan Xiaona | 645 |
| 20 | CXT        | 900 | 19 | Takahashi   | 640 |

Fascinating - thanks.  Easy enough to do one for the men's as well? Big smileBig smileLOL


-------------
https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Mazunov
FH: TBD (MX-S, C1)
BH: C1
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...


Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 09/06/2022 at 12:52pm
Here you go. I fixed some errors in the women's ranking. Posting both together for easier comparison.

https://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/2022_36_SEN_MS.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/2022_36_SEN_MS.html
Top 20
5 Calderano 2920-500+70=2490, highest point SCT 600
6 Moregard 2800-350+15=2465, highest point WTTC 1400
8->10 Jorgic 2145-500+105=1750, highest point CCUP 500
9->12 Qiu Dang 2095-500+45=1640, highest point CC 500
10->11 Ovtcharov 2015-350+0=1665, highest point OG 700
13 Franziska 1750-500+55=1305, highest point CCUP 500
14->16 Boll 1610-500+0=1110, highest point WTTC 700
15->14 Aruna 1565-350+70=1285, highest point CC 350
16->19 CCY 1365-350+55=1070, highest point CS 350/CC 350
17->18 Karlsson 1230-175+35=1090, highest point GS 350
19->17 Kallberg 1145-90+45=1100, highest point CT 400
20 Pitchford 1045-90+25=980, highest point CF 265

|  With continental result   |   W/O continental result   |
|----|----------------|------|----|----------------|------|
| 1 | FZD            | 6900 | 1 | FZD            | 6900 |
| 2 | ML             | 3700 | 2 | ML             | 3700 |
| 3 | LJK            | 3085 | 3 | LJK            | 3085 |
| 4 | Miwa's brother | 3045 | 4 | Miwa's brother | 3045 |
| 5 | Calderano      | 2920 | 5 | Calderano      | 2490 |
| 6 | Moregard       | 2800 | 6 | Moregard       | 2465 |
| 7 | LYJ            | 2145 | 7 | LYJ            | 2145 |
| 8 | Jorgic        | 2145 | 11 | WCQ            | 1910 |
| 9 | Qiu Dang       | 2095 | 12 | LGY            | 1780 |
| 10 | Ovtcharov      | 2015 | 8 | Jorgic        | 1750 |
| 11 | WCQ            | 1910 | 10 | Ovtcharov      | 1665 |
| 12 | LGY            | 1780 | 9 | Qiu Dang       | 1640 |
| 13 | Franziska      | 1750 | 13 | Franziska      | 1305 |
| 14 | Boll           | 1610 | 15 | Aruna          | 1285 |
| 15 | Aruna          | 1565 | 18 | LJH            | 1220 |
| 16 | CCY            | 1365 | 14 | Boll           | 1110 |
| 17 | Karlsson       | 1230 | 19 | Kallberg       | 1100 |
| 18 | LJH            | 1220 | 17 | Karlsson       | 1090 |
| 19 | Kallberg       | 1145 | 16 | CCY            | 1070 |
| 20 | Pitchford      | 1045 | 20 | Pitchford      | 980 |


https://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/2022_36_SEN_WS.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/2022_36_SEN_WS.html
Top 50
6 Hayata 2710-500+105=2315, highest point SCT 600
7 DHK 1670-90+5=1585, highest point SCT 420
8->12 Han Ying 1580-500+5=1085, highest point CCUP 500
10->13 Polcanova 1465-500+35=1000, highest point CC 500
11->17 Diaz 1355-500+35=890, highest point CC 500
12->9 YXX 1285-100+55=1240, highest point CT 400
13->26 Mittelham 1230-500+5=735, highest point CCUP 500
16->14 FTW 1099-100+0=999, highest point SCT 420
17->27 Shan Xiaona 970-350+25=645, highest point CC 350
19->28 Takahashi 945-350+45=640, highest point CC 350
23->39 Fu Yu 860-350+4=514, highest point CCUP 350
24 Yuan Jia Nan 845-90+19=774, highest point GS 350
26->22 Sawettabut 835-45+15=805, highest point WTTC 175
28->29 Matelova 805-175+8=638, highest point CT 400
30->44 SYB 774-350+15=439, highest point CC 350
31->outside top 50 Solja 770-500+0=270, highest point CC 500
33->30 Szocs 760-175+35=620, highest point WTTC 175
34->40 Samara 670-175+4=499, highest point SCT 210
35->33 SHW 665-90+0=575, highest point WTTC 350
36->41 Lily Zhang 660-175+10=495, highest point CC 175
37->34 Ni Xia Lian 655-90+8=573, highest point CT 280
38->42 Pesotska 655-175+5=485, highest point SCT 210
39->outside top 50 Goda 626-500+2=128, highset point CCUP 500
42->46 Winter 570-175+7=402, highest point CC 175
43->36 Batra 550-20+10=540, highest point CT 140
44->37 Balazova 545-45+35=535, highest point FEE 150
46->outside top 50 Mikhailova 523-350+0=173, highest point CCUP 350
47->outside top 50 Alhodaby 520-500+0=20, highest point CC 500
49->43 Bergstrom 510-90+20=440, highest point CT 140
50->outside top 50 Meshref 475-175+5=305, highest point CCUP 175
51->50 Shao Jieni 450-90+10=370, highest point CC 90
54->47 Zhang Mo 415-20+4=399, highest point OG 175


| With continental result | W/O continental result |
|----|--------------|------|----|--------------|------|
| 1 | SYS          | 5770 | 1 | SYS          | 5770 |
| 2 | CM           | 5575 | 2 | CM           | 5575 |
| 3 | WMY          | 4710 | 3 | WMY          | 4710 |
| 4 | WYD          | 4220 | 4 | WYD          | 4220 |
| 5 | Ito          | 2905 | 5 | Ito          | 2905 |
| 6 | Hayata       | 2710 | 6 | Hayata       | 2315 |
| 7 | DHK          | 1670 | 7 | DHK          | 1585 |
| 8 | Han Ying     | 1580 | 9 | Ishikawa     | 1575 |
| 9 | Ishikawa     | 1575 | 12 | YXX          | 1240 |
| 10 | Polcanova    | 1465 | 14 | Kihara       | 1225 |
| 11 | Diaz        | 1355 | 15 | JJH          | 1225 |
| 12 | YXX          | 1285 | 8 | Han Ying     | 1085 |
| 13 | Mittelham    | 1230 | 10 | Polcanova    | 1000 |
| 14 | Kihara       | 1225 | 16 | FTW          | 999 |
| 15 | JJH          | 1225 | 18 | Hirano       | 960 |
| 16 | FTW          | 1099 | 20 | CXT          | 900 |
| 17 | Shan Xiaona | 970 | 11 | Diaz        | 890 |
| 18 | Hirano       | 960 | 21 | Fan Siqi     | 890 |
| 19 | Takahashi    | 945 | 22 | Zhang Rui    | 862 |
| 20 | CXT          | 900 | 25 | LWS          | 842 |
| 21 | Fan Siqi     | 890 | 27 | CSY          | 820 |
| 22 | Zhang Rui    | 862 | 26 | Sawettabut   | 805 |
| 23 | Fu Yu        | 860 | 29 | Kuai Man     | 795 |
| 24 | Yuan Jia Nan | 845 | 24 | Yuan Jia Nan | 774 |
| 25 | LWS          | 842 | 32 | CIC          | 765 |
| 26 | Sawettabut   | 835 | 13 | Mittelham    | 735 |
| 27 | CSY          | 820 | 17 | Shan Xiaona | 645 |
| 28 | Matelova     | 805 | 19 | Takahashi    | 640 |
| 29 | Kuai Man     | 795 | 28 | Matelova     | 638 |
| 30 | SYB          | 774 | 33 | Szocs        | 620 |
| 31 | Solja        | 770 | 40 | Abraamian    | 613 |
| 32 | CIC          | 765 | 41 | Nagasaki     | 595 |
| 33 | Szocs        | 760 | 35 | SHW          | 575 |
| 34 | Samara       | 670 | 37 | Ni Xia Lian | 573 |
| 35 | SHW          | 665 | 43 | Harimoto     | 563 |
| 36 | Lily Zhang   | 660 | 44 | Batra        | 540 |
| 37 | Ni Xia Lian | 655 | 45 | Balazova     | 535 |
| 38 | Pesotska     | 655 | 48 | QTY          | 519 |
| 39 | Goda        | 626 | 23 | Fu Yu        | 514 |
| 40 | Abraamian    | 613 | 34 | Samara       | 499 |
| 41 | Nagasaki     | 595 | 36 | Lily Zhang   | 495 |
| 42 | Winter       | 570 | 38 | Pesotska     | 485 |
| 43 | Harimoto     | 563 | 49 | Bergstrom    | 440 |
| 44 | Batra        | 550 | 30 | SYB          | 439 |
| 45 | Balazova     | 545 | 53 | Ojio        | 415 |
| 46 | Mikhailova   | 523 | 42 | Winter       | 402 |
| 47 | Alhodaby     | 520 | 54 | Zhang Mo     | 399 |
| 48 | QTY          | 519 | 55 | HZJ          | 399 |
| 49 | Bergstrom    | 510 | 57 | LHC          | 394 |
| 50 | Meshref      | 475 | 51 | Shao Jieni   | 370 |

                           | 50 | Meshref      | 305 | Outside top 50
                           | 31 | Solja        | 270 | Outside top 50
                           | 46 | Mikhailova   | 173 | Outside top 50
                           | 39 | Goda        | 128 | Outside top 50
                           | 47 | Alhodaby     | 20   | Outside top 50




-------------
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g


Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 09/06/2022 at 1:35pm
For the women's ranking, Mittelham, Shan Xiaona and Takahashi would actually be outside the top 20 without the continental result.

Updated the women's ranking to the top 50.

-------------
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g


Posted By: mykonos96
Date Posted: 09/06/2022 at 2:41pm
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

For the women's ranking, Mittelham, Shan Xiaona and Takahashi would actually be outside the top 20 without the continental result.

Updated the women's ranking to the top 50.
Same for Diaz


Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 09/06/2022 at 2:58pm
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

For the women's ranking, Mittelham, Shan Xiaona and Takahashi would actually be outside the top 20 without the continental result.

Updated the women's ranking to the top 50.

I think one good thing here (regardless of what you think about the new rating system) is that Lily's rank is hardly affected by continental points if your divine mathematics is right.


-------------
https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Mazunov
FH: TBD (MX-S, C1)
BH: C1
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...


Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 09/06/2022 at 3:04pm
Diaz would still be in top 20, but she would be the one with the biggest drop after those 3, other than the few who would drop outside top 50.
YXX would be the only European to be inside top 10.
Han Ying and Pocalnova would be just outside top 10.

Overall, European men(top 20 will still be top 20) fare MUCH better than European women and that's inline with the general perception in East Asia.

-------------
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g


Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 09/06/2022 at 3:12pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

For the women's ranking, Mittelham, Shan Xiaona and Takahashi would actually be outside the top 20 without the continental result.

Updated the women's ranking to the top 50.


I think one good thing here (regardless of what you think about the new rating system) is that Lily's rank is hardly affected by continental points if your divine mathematics is right.

Yes. Dropping 5 places is acceptable for her, given her performance against East Asian players in 2022. Personally, I'd rank her higher than some top European players just because of that.

-------------
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g


Posted By: amateur
Date Posted: 09/06/2022 at 3:46pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

You're welcome.

As a matter of principle I'm uncomfortable "inferring" anything about an athlete's work ethic, off-court attitude, or lifestyle. We don't know all the circumstances, and it's none of our business anyway.

As a matter of principle and fact, there are ESPN/Fox Sports journalists in sports punditry who do exactly what you are uncomfortable with for a living, and most sports reporting is built on it.  

I don't watch those channels, but I'm generally aware of that kind of tabloid journalism and so-called sports punditry. I didn't realize that's your idea for this forum - I thought it could do better since it's not dependent on commercial success and ratings.

As for "fandom" - I'm also uncomfortable with that, especially when it goes from excessive adulation to excessive disparagement on a whim. It always seems to come down to who's the "greatest" - Messi or Ronaldo, Federer or Nadal, Zhang or Wang... Life's more complicated than that.


Posted By: JediJesseS
Date Posted: 09/06/2022 at 6:28pm
"Well, but lots of people do it" is about the weakest non-argument or justification there is.
Amateur is correct when he says this practice can be more than distasteful, especially when it comes from within our own comparatively close knit community.

DonnOlsen should be ashamed of his insinuations and comments about Lily Zhang, at once viciously belittling her and then also attempting to inflate his own stature by writing he has "helped her with her game for over 14 years".

I can only imagine Lily, the overwhelmingly kind person she is, smiling and calmly tolerating the unneeded intrusions and nonsense advice from this person who seems to be primarily concerned only with their own ego.


Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 09/06/2022 at 6:47pm
Originally posted by JediJesseS JediJesseS wrote:

"Well, but lots of people do it" is about the weakest non-argument or justification there is.
Amateur is correct when he says this practice can be more than distasteful, especially when it comes from within our own comparatively close knit community.

DonnOlsen should be ashamed of his insinuations and comments about Lily Zhang, at once viciously belittling her and then also attempting to inflate his own stature by writing he has "helped her with her game for over 14 years".

I can only imagine Lily, the overwhelmingly kind person she is, smiling and calmly tolerating the unneeded intrusions and nonsense advice from this person who seems to be primarily concerned only with their own ego.

Human nature is a tough thing to accept, but accept it I must.
 




-------------
https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Mazunov
FH: TBD (MX-S, C1)
BH: C1
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...


Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 09/06/2022 at 6:51pm
Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

You're welcome.

As a matter of principle I'm uncomfortable "inferring" anything about an athlete's work ethic, off-court attitude, or lifestyle. We don't know all the circumstances, and it's none of our business anyway.

As a matter of principle and fact, there are ESPN/Fox Sports journalists in sports punditry who do exactly what you are uncomfortable with for a living, and most sports reporting is built on it.  

I don't watch those channels, but I'm generally aware of that kind of tabloid journalism and so-called sports punditry. I didn't realize that's your idea for this forum - I thought it could do better since it's not dependent on commercial success and ratings.

As for "fandom" - I'm also uncomfortable with that, especially when it goes from excessive adulation to excessive disparagement on a whim. It always seems to come down to who's the "greatest" - Messi or Ronaldo, Federer or Nadal, Zhang or Wang... Life's more complicated than that.
I don't know whether it is an idea, I think the discussion is going the way it should.  My main point is that something like this is inevitable. and I suspect rightly or wrongly that there is another dynamic at play here as well. But the main point is that public figures need to have strong hearts and minds, they get criticized everyday in baseless ways.  Even if someone believes it is wrong, it is a very different thing to say that it isn't typical amongst people.


-------------
https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Mazunov
FH: TBD (MX-S, C1)
BH: C1
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...


Posted By: amateur
Date Posted: 09/06/2022 at 8:08pm
Originally posted by JediJesseS JediJesseS wrote:

"Well, but lots of people do it" is about the weakest non-argument or justification there is.
Amateur is correct when he says this practice can be more than distasteful, especially when it comes from within our own comparatively close knit community.

Yes, I meant to add that: surely many of us here know these American players personally, and in some cases have watched them train, compete, and grow up since they were little (that's my case at least for both Lily and Amy). So I really don't feel like talking about them the way ESPN pundits or ordinary "fans" talk about millionaire megastars like Tom Brady or Serena Williams.

And maybe some here missed that Lily went public last year about her struggles (after the Olympics). As far as I'm concerned, she has nothing left to prove after 10 years at the top of the sport. If she improves further and manages to break into the top 10, great - if she retires tomorrow to pursue something else she enjoys, good for her. 


Posted By: bard romance
Date Posted: 09/06/2022 at 8:22pm
Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

Originally posted by JediJesseS JediJesseS wrote:

"Well, but lots of people do it" is about the weakest non-argument or justification there is.
Amateur is correct when he says this practice can be more than distasteful, especially when it comes from within our own comparatively close knit community.

Yes, I meant to add that: surely many of us here know these American players personally, and in some cases have watched them train, compete, and grow up since they were little (that's my case at least for both Lily and Amy). So I really don't feel like talking about them the way ESPN pundits or ordinary "fans" talk about millionaire megastars like Tom Brady or Serena Williams.

And maybe some here missed that Lily went public last year about her struggles (after the Olympics). As far as I'm concerned, she has nothing left to prove after 10 years at the top of the sport. If she improves further and manages to break into the top 10, great - if she retires tomorrow to pursue something else she enjoys, good for her. 
 
https://joola.com/life-after-tokyo-whats-next/" rel="nofollow - I was going to mention this as well. 

One would think that Donn, being such the advisor to Lily that he is LOL, would be more aware of her mental health struggles that she made public, and might not find the need to bash her on an online forum. But it's telling that he hasn't come back to this thread to address the blatant misinformation and hypocrisy that has been pointed out - luckily, most seem to realize there's more to it than unbiased table tennis analysis.

I see NextLevel's point in not stifling freedom of speech and letting Donn come to whatever conclusion he wishes with his obviously limited information, but there is a difference with the incendiary sports "analysts" on ESPN, who openly admit to stirring up drama for views - they make millions of dollars for it because there are millions of people worldwide consuming the content. It is an open secret that those programs are by no means sports analysis. So, slightly different on a forum of what appears these days to have about 25 active members. 




Posted By: bard romance
Date Posted: 09/06/2022 at 8:34pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by PingPongPom PingPongPom wrote:

Originally posted by Lightspin Lightspin wrote:

Also as a professional player she is probably trying to peak for specific tournaments and maybe this wasn't one of them.

Exactly, she was there ahead of a busy international schedule because we asked her to be there to compete and she obliged. It’s also worth noting that international competitors aren’t used to playing with a seamless ball like the flash. The players who had pips or drove the ball more definitely seemed to play better at the event.

Why did Joola use that ball?  Why not a seamed ball?

I would like to know this as well - the Prime ball, which they use at the Teams, is seamed ABS.


Posted By: amateur
Date Posted: 09/06/2022 at 9:28pm
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Here you go. I fixed some errors in the women's ranking. Posting both together for easier comparison.

https://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/2022_36_SEN_MS.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/2022_36_SEN_MS.html
Top 20
5 Calderano 2920-500+70=2490, highest point SCT 600
6 Moregard 2800-350+15=2465, highest point WTTC 1400
8->10 Jorgic 2145-500+105=1750, highest point CCUP 500
9->12 Qiu Dang 2095-500+45=1640, highest point CC 500
10->11 Ovtcharov 2015-350+0=1665, highest point OG 700
13 Franziska 1750-500+55=1305, highest point CCUP 500


As one can see here, the ranking is currently distorted because of special Covid regulations - normally you couldn't have two players credited with 500 points from their respective European Cup win. Same for the women with Han Ying and Mittelham (CCUP 500) and Polcanova and Solja (CC 500). Since Covid messed up the competition schedule, there are currently too many European points in the system. This will all take a while until one can really see what the ranking will look like according to the new rules and point allocations.


Posted By: pongfugrasshopper
Date Posted: 09/06/2022 at 11:08pm
Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Here you go. I fixed some errors in the women's ranking. Posting both together for easier comparison.

https://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/2022_36_SEN_MS.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/2022_36_SEN_MS.html
Top 20
5 Calderano 2920-500+70=2490, highest point SCT 600
6 Moregard 2800-350+15=2465, highest point WTTC 1400
8->10 Jorgic 2145-500+105=1750, highest point CCUP 500
9->12 Qiu Dang 2095-500+45=1640, highest point CC 500
10->11 Ovtcharov 2015-350+0=1665, highest point OG 700
13 Franziska 1750-500+55=1305, highest point CCUP 500


As one can see here, the ranking is currently distorted because of special Covid regulations - normally you couldn't have two players credited with 500 points from their respective European Cup win. Same for the women with Han Ying and Mittelham (CCUP 500) and Polcanova and Solja (CC 500). Since Covid messed up the competition schedule, there are currently too many European points in the system. This will all take a while until one can really see what the ranking will look like according to the new rules and point allocations.
This is true.  A lot of players rankings are being propped up by their 2021 results.  Just as the initial ranking points went away, eventually the 2021 results will go away.  Their validity is currently being extended due to Covid.


Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 09/07/2022 at 3:57am
We're looking at the overall picture here. There is more movement on the women's side, when there should be roughly the same movement on both sides. I'll probably do 2018 and 2019 to see how different they would look.

Still, even the world ranking w/o continental result does not totally reflect the real standing, since the top 8/16/32 players enjoy succeedingly better seeding positions(easier draw). For a fairer comparison, one has to go deeper, like I did for http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=92044&PID=1129891&title=wtt-contender-tunis-2022-8-16#1129891" rel="nofollow - Ishikawa and CIC (how often they reached a certain round, while taking into account their seeding positions), http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=76840&PID=1130800&title=qiu-dang#1130800" rel="nofollow - QD and WCT (how they did against the same player, preferably in the same tournament).

Ishikawa often "survived" 1 more round than CIC in the same tournaments because of better draw. Same deal for QD and WCT at WTT CS ESS. The best example that contains the 2 scenarios above is WTTC 2021.

https://worldtabletennis.com/eventInfo?selectedTab=Player%20List&eventId=2346" rel="nofollow - https://worldtabletennis.com/eventInfo?selectedTab=Player%20List&eventId=2346
WS of WTTC 2021
Ishikawa(seed #6) - QF, 0-4 CM(1)
Hirano(9) - R16, 3-4 CM
Ito(3) - QF, 1-4 WYD(7)
Hayata(15) - R16, 2-4 WYD
CIC(5) - R16, 1-4 CXT(12)

Under an Elo-like rating system, players would be punished(points taken away) from least to most(difference in rating points) for losing in the following order:
Hayata = Hirano < Ishikawa < Ito < CIC

Yet under the current merit-based ranking system, Ito and Ishikawa got awarded more in return when they actually played the worst.

-------------
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g


Posted By: stiltt
Date Posted: 09/07/2022 at 6:46am
Originally posted by bard romance bard romance wrote:

....
It is an open secret that those programs are by no means sports analysis. So, slightly different on a forum of what appears these days to have about 25 active members. 
26 with you, WELCOME BACK!!! Tongue

-------------
/forum/topic91512_page1.html#1124698" rel="nofollow - sales - forum_posts.asp?TID=19315" rel="nofollow - feedback


Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 09/07/2022 at 1:05pm
The 2020 World Ranking was frozen from 4/2020 to 11/2020. 1 continental championships/continental cup and 1 continental games were allowed in the best-8 results.

On the men's side, the top 20 would still be top 20 without continental results, except for Aruna(20->22), who was barely top 20 to begin with.

On the women's side, Polcanova(16->17) would be the only non-East Asian/-Southeast Asian player in the top 20. Diaz(18->28) and Solja(19->24) would be in top 30 instead. Those that relied a lot on continental championships/cup and continental games had a substantial drop, such as Lily(30->43), Wu Yue(31->45), Zhang Mo(38->49) and those that fell outside top 60.

https://ranking.ittf.com/#/rankings/list/SEN/M;SINGLES/2020/49w" rel="nofollow - https://ranking.ittf.com/#/rankings/list/SEN/M;SINGLES/2020/49w
|  With continental results   |   W/O continental results   |                           |
|----|----------------|-------|----|----------------|-------|---------------------------|
| 1 | FZD            | 18490 | 1 | FZD            | 18155 | 18490-1800+1465           |
| 2 | XX             | 17260 | 2 | XX             | 17120 | 17260-1800+1660           |
| 3 | ML             | 17020 | 3 | ML             | 17020 |                           |
| 4 | LGY            | 13390 | 4 | LGY            | 13165 | 13390-1350+1125           |
| 5 | Miwa's brother | 12990 | 5 | Miwa's brother | 12990 |                           |
| 6 | Calderano      | 12315 | 7 | LYJ            | 12150 |                           |
| 7 | LYJ            | 12150 | 8 | Falck          | 11695 | 11695-900+900             |
| 8 | Falck          | 11695 | 6 | Calderano      | 11435 | 12315-1800-1330+1125+1125 |
| 9 | LJK            | 11205 | 9 | LJK            | 11205 |                           |
| 10 | Boll           | 10685 | 11 | JWJ            | 10585 |                           |
| 11 | JWJ            | 10585 | 12 | Ovtcharov      | 10565 |                           |
| 12 | Ovtcharov      | 10565 | 13 | JYS            | 10050 |                           |
| 13 | JYS            | 10050 | 10 | Boll           | 9755 | 10685-1800-1050+1020+900 |
| 14 | WCQ            | 9785 | 15 | Pitchford      | 9710 | 9710-900+900              |
| 15 | Pitchford      | 9710 | 14 | WCQ            | 9335 | 9785-900+450              |
| 16 | Franziska      | 9620 | 16 | Franziska      | 9200 | 9620-1170+750             |
| 17 | Niwa           | 9435 | 17 | Niwa           | 9165 | 9435-1170+900             |
| 18 | Mizutani       | 9045 | 18 | Mizutani       | 9045 |                           |
| 19 | WCT            | 8995 | 19 | WCT            | 8950 | 8995-765+720              |
| 20 | Gauzy          | 8755 | 20 | Gauzy          | 8755 |                           |
| 20 | Aruna          | 8755 | 22 | LSS            | 8095 | 8320-900+675              |
| 22 | LSS            | 8320 | 20 | Aruna          | 8025 | 8755-1800-1000+1350+720   |
| 23 | ZZH            | 7750 | 23 | ZZH            | 7750 |                           |


https://ranking.ittf.com/#/rankings/list/SEN/W;SINGLES/2020/49w" rel="nofollow - https://ranking.ittf.com/#/rankings/list/SEN/W;SINGLES/2020/49w
|   With continental results   |   W/O continental results    |                        |                             |
|----|-----------------|-------|----|-----------------|-------|------------------------|-----------------------------|
| 1 | CM              | 19750 | 1 | CM              | 19750 |                        |                             |
| 2 | SYS             | 16400 | 3 | Ito             | 15830 |                        |                             |
| 3 | Ito             | 15830 | 2 | SYS             | 15770 | 16400-1800+1170        |                             |
| 4 | WMY             | 14555 | 4 | WMY             | 14555 |                        |                             |
| 5 | DN              | 13450 | 5 | DN              | 13300 | 13450-1170+1020        |                             |
| 6 | ZYL             | 12225 | 8 | CIC             | 11710 |                        |                             |
| 7 | LSW             | 12075 | 7 | LSW             | 11475 | 12075-1350+750        |                             |
| 8 | CIC             | 11710 | 6 | ZYL             | 11100 | 12225-1800+675        |                             |
| 9 | Ishikawa        | 11100 | 10 | WYD             | 11035 |                        |                             |
| 10 | WYD             | 11035 | 9 | Ishikawa        | 11030 | 11100-1170+1100        |                             |
| 11 | Hirano          | 10695 | 11 | Hirano          | 10695 |                        |                             |
| 12 | FTW             | 10580 | 12 | FTW             | 10400 | 10580-1080+900        |                             |
| 13 | CXT             | 10370 | 13 | CXT             | 10370 |                        |                             |
| 14 | DHK             | 9360 | 14 | DHK             | 9180 | 9360-900+720           |                             |
| 15 | JJH             | 9140 | 15 | JJH             | 9140 |                        |                             |
| 16 | Polcanova       | 8960 | 17 | Sato            | 8920 |                        |                             |
| 17 | Sato            | 8920 | 16 | Polcanova       | 8690 | 8960-1170+900          |                             |
| 18 | Diaz            | 8825 | 20 | HZJ             | 8255 |                        |                             |
| 19 | Solja           | 8305 | 21 | SHW             | 8165 |                        |                             |
| 20 | HZJ             | 8255 | 23 | Kato            | 7770 | 7775-720+715           |                             |
| 21 | SHW             | 8165 | 24 | QTY             | 7660 |                        |                             |
| 22 | Han Ying        | 8165 | 22 | Han Ying        | 7115 | 8165-1140-900+540+450 |                             |
| 23 | Kato            | 7775 | 25 | CSY             | 7090 | 7270-720+540           |                             |
| 24 | QTY             | 7660 | 19 | Solja           | 7045 | 8305-1800+540          |                             |
| 25 | CSY             | 7270 | 26 | Szocs           | 7010 | 7260-900-700+675+675   |                             |
| 26 | Szocs           | 7260 | 28 | Soo Wai Yam     | 6930 |                        |                             |
| 27 | Eerland        | 7085 | 29 | Hayata          | 6895 |                        |                             |
| 28 | Soo Wai Yam     | 6930 | 18 | Diaz            | 6615 | 8825-1800-1400+540+450 |                             |
| 29 | Hayata          | 6895 | 36 | Hashimoto       | 6180 |                        |                             |
| 30 | Lily Zhang      | 6750 | 37 | Shibata        | 6150 |                        |                             |
| 31 | Wu Yue          | 6480 | 27 | Eerland        | 6075 | 7085-1350+340          |                             |
| 32 | Pesotska        | 6330 | 40 | Gu Yuting       | 5985 |                        |                             |
| 33 | Li Qian        | 6320 | 41 | Sawettabut      | 5945 | 5960-440+425           |                             |
| 34 | Samara          | 6295 | 43 | Shan Xiaona     | 5920 |                        |                             |
| 35 | Meshref        | 6225 | 39 | Mittelham       | 5865 | 6045-720+540           |                             |
| 36 | Hashimoto       | 6180 | 44 | YXX             | 5805 | 5895-630+540           |                             |
| 37 | Shibata        | 6150 | 45 | LHC             | 5655 | 5835-720+540           |                             |
| 38 | Zhang Mo        | 6130 | 34 | Samara          | 5555 | 6295-1080+340          |                             |
| 39 | Mittelham       | 6045 | 32 | Pesotska        | 5480 | 6330-1350+500          |                             |
| 40 | Gu Yuting       | 5985 | 46 | Mikhailova      | 5445 | 5790-720-525+450+450   |                             |
| 41 | Sawettabut      | 5960 | 49 | Kihara          | 5350 | 5530-540+360           |                             |
| 42 | Ni Xia Lian     | 5945 | 50 | YMY             | 5315 | 5495-540+360           |                             |
| 43 | Shan Xiaona     | 5920 | 30 | Lily Zhang      | 5160 | 6750-1800-665+450+425 |                             |
| 44 | YXX             | 5895 | 51 | Matelova        | 5090 | 5450-720+360           |                             |
| 45 | LHC             | 5835 | 31 | Wu Yue          | 5050 | 6480-1170-930+340+330 |                             |
| 46 | Mikhailova      | 5790 | 56 | Nagasaki        | 5010 |                        |                             |
| 47 | Takahashi       | 5680 | 42 | Ni Xia Lian     | 4990 | 5945-900-755+360+340   |                             |
| 48 | Ekholm          | 5665 | 57 | Cheng Hsien-Tzu | 4945 |                        |                             |
| 49 | Kihara          | 5530 | 38 | Zhang Mo        | 4870 | 6130-1170-700+340+270 |                             |
| 50 | YMY             | 5495 | 54 | Balazova        | 4820 | 5270-900+450           |                             |
| 51 | Matelova        | 5450 | 52 | Kim Song I      | 4700 | 5420-720+0             | 4 events left, still top 60 |
| 52 | Kim Song I      | 5420 | 48 | Ekholm          | 4385 | 5665-720-560+0+0       | Outside top 60?             |
| 53 | Pota            | 5410 | 53 | Pota            | 4085 | 5410-1020-560+255+0    | Outside top 60?             |
| 54 | Balazova        | 5270 | 47 | Takahashi       | 3940 | 5680-1350-1175+425+360 | Outside top 60?             |
| 55 | Fu Yu           | 5155 | 33 | Li Qian        | 3820 | 6320-1800-700+0+0      | Outside top 60?             |
| 56 | Nagasaki        | 5010 | 35 | Meshref        | 3565 | 6225-1800-1470+340+270 | Outside top 60?             |
| 57 | Cheng Hsien-Tzu | 4945 | 55 | Fu Yu           | 2905 | 5155-1560-1050+180+180 | Outside top 60?             |


-------------
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g


Posted By: PingPongPom
Date Posted: 09/07/2022 at 2:26pm



-------------
http://mhtabletennis.com


Posted By: Twiddler
Date Posted: 09/07/2022 at 3:58pm
World class prize money  $25,000. for 1st and $10,000. for 2nd, $4,000. semis and $1,600 quarter's


Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 09/07/2022 at 4:20pm
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/showthread.php?21816-ITTF-Paraguay-Open-2019&p=288495&viewfull=1#post288495" rel="nofollow - https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/showthread.php?21816-ITTF-Paraguay-Open-2019&p=288495&viewfull=1#post288495
Quote Cifuentes is pretty good. More balanced than some Europeans. Awesome footwork, coming from a football country. Not a pushover.


-------------
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g


Posted By: PingPongPom
Date Posted: 09/07/2022 at 4:34pm
Originally posted by Twiddler Twiddler wrote:

World class prize money  $25,000. for 1st and $10,000. for 2nd, $4,000. semis and $1,600 quarter's

If WTT hadnt been so hopeless with their calendar we had Ovtcharov and Calderano wanting to come but ultimately couldn’t commit any active WTT players in the end. I had to dig deep this time haha most of the top players in the open singles also entered the over 30 😂


-------------
http://mhtabletennis.com


Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 09/07/2022 at 5:41pm
Originally posted by PingPongPom PingPongPom wrote:

Originally posted by Twiddler Twiddler wrote:

World class prize money  $25,000. for 1st and $10,000. for 2nd, $4,000. semis and $1,600 quarter's

If WTT hadnt been so hopeless with their calendar we had Ovtcharov and Calderano wanting to come but ultimately couldn’t commit any active WTT players in the end. I had to dig deep this time haha most of the top players in the open singles also entered the over 30 😂

Was a great event to watch, curious about the choice of ball, but it is something I would definitely have wanted to see live had I lived nearby.


-------------
https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Mazunov
FH: TBD (MX-S, C1)
BH: C1
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...


Posted By: PingPongPom
Date Posted: 09/08/2022 at 10:51am
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Was a great event to watch, curious about the choice of ball, but it is something I would definitely have wanted to see live had I lived nearby.

Unsure about the choice of ball, I think there were a large quantity of them printed with JOOLA 70th Anniversary logo so they chose to use them for the event in conjunction with that celebration. I think if the event happens again it would be better to use the Prime ball.


-------------
http://mhtabletennis.com


Posted By: PingPongPom
Date Posted: 09/08/2022 at 10:52am


-------------
http://mhtabletennis.com


Posted By: pongfugrasshopper
Date Posted: 09/08/2022 at 11:00am
Originally posted by PingPongPom PingPongPom wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Was a great event to watch, curious about the choice of ball, but it is something I would definitely have wanted to see live had I lived nearby.

Unsure about the choice of ball, I think there were a large quantity of them printed with JOOLA 70th Anniversary logo so they chose to use them for the event in conjunction with that celebration. I think if the event happens again it would be better to use the Prime ball.
https://joola.com/events/global-championships/" rel="nofollow - https://joola.com/events/global-championships/  (Hover over the EQUIPMENT icon)

 

The tournament will use ITTF-approved JOOLA 3000SC Neo and JOOLA 3000SC Pro Competition tables and players will compete with white JOOLA Flash poly balls. No competitor shall wear white shirts or shorts/skirts during play. All USATT and ITTF rules and regulations will be followed.


Posted By: PingPongPom
Date Posted: 09/08/2022 at 10:22pm
He’s asking why the Flash ball was chosen as apposed to the Prime

-------------
http://mhtabletennis.com


Posted By: PingPongPom
Date Posted: 09/12/2022 at 10:56am


-------------
http://mhtabletennis.com


Posted By: mykonos96
Date Posted: 09/12/2022 at 12:04pm
[QUOTE=JediJesseS]"Well, but lots of people do it" is about the weakest non-argument or justification there is.
Amateur is correct when he says this practice can be more than distasteful, especially when it comes from within our own comparatively close knit community.

DonnOlsen should be ashamed of his insinuations and comments about Lily Zhang, at once viciously belittling her and then also attempting to inflate his own stature by writing he has "helped her with her game for over 14 years".

I can only imagine Lily, the overwhelmingly kind person she is, smiling and calmly tolerating the unneeded intrusions and nonsense advice from this person who seems to be primarily concerned only with their own ego.
[/QUOT
Olsen said he was in the same place where chinese train, Do we have a vip member here? Lily is a
TT Icon, Can we see a video of Olsen playing?


Posted By: mts388
Date Posted: 09/12/2022 at 12:13pm
I don't have a problem with Donn's post.  Many members post positive and negative comments about players.  I don't have a clue if his post is correct or not, it's just his opinion.  


Posted By: bard romance
Date Posted: 09/19/2022 at 4:18pm
Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by JediJesseS JediJesseS wrote:

"Well, but lots of people do it" is about the weakest non-argument or justification there is.
Amateur is correct when he says this practice can be more than distasteful, especially when it comes from within our own comparatively close knit community.

DonnOlsen should be ashamed of his insinuations and comments about Lily Zhang, at once viciously belittling her and then also attempting to inflate his own stature by writing he has "helped her with her game for over 14 years".

I can only imagine Lily, the overwhelmingly kind person she is, smiling and calmly tolerating the unneeded intrusions and nonsense advice from this person who seems to be primarily concerned only with their own ego.
 
Olsen said he was in the same place where chinese train, Do we have a vip member here? Lily is a
TT Icon, Can we see a video of Olsen playing?

He was there when the CNT trained at the Werner Schlager Academy for a brief period of time before the 2013 World Champs in Paris. The academy was open to the public at the time, so nothing to do with being a VIP.


Posted By: amateur
Date Posted: 09/19/2022 at 5:52pm
Originally posted by bard romance bard romance wrote:

He was there when the CNT trained at the Werner Schlager Academy for a brief period of time before the 2013 World Champs in Paris. The academy was open to the public at the time, so nothing to do with being a VIP.

Well, he was some kind of official staff member at the Werner Schlager Academy - coach or publicity agent or ballboy, I don't know. Unfortunately the WSA went bankrupt and closed in 2016. The 2013 blog is still up:
https://www.teamusa.org/USA-Table-Tennis/News/2013/May/05/The-Chinese-National-Team-Training-at-the-Werner-Schlager-Academy" rel="nofollow - https://www.teamusa.org/USA-Table-Tennis/News/2013/May/05/The-Chinese-National-Team-Training-at-the-Werner-Schlager-Academy



Posted By: bard romance
Date Posted: 09/19/2022 at 7:13pm
Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

Originally posted by bard romance bard romance wrote:

He was there when the CNT trained at the Werner Schlager Academy for a brief period of time before the 2013 World Champs in Paris. The academy was open to the public at the time, so nothing to do with being a VIP.

Well, he was some kind of official staff member at the Werner Schlager Academy - coach or publicity agent or ballboy, I don't know. Unfortunately the WSA went bankrupt and closed in 2016. The 2013 blog is still up:
https://www.teamusa.org/USA-Table-Tennis/News/2013/May/05/The-Chinese-National-Team-Training-at-the-Werner-Schlager-Academy" rel="nofollow - https://www.teamusa.org/USA-Table-Tennis/News/2013/May/05/The-Chinese-National-Team-Training-at-the-Werner-Schlager-Academy


http://www.wsa-tt.com/newsreader-en/items/a-large-wsa-contingent-at-the-world-championships.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.wsa-tt.com/newsreader-en/items/a-large-wsa-contingent-at-the-world-championships.html

Note how every coach, player, CEO, and manager in this article is given a clear title. The one notable omission is "a member of the staff". I'll let you hazard a guess on what that means Wink.




Posted By: PingPongPom
Date Posted: 09/20/2022 at 12:14am


-------------
http://mhtabletennis.com


Posted By: PingPongPom
Date Posted: 09/20/2022 at 12:15am


-------------
http://mhtabletennis.com


Posted By: PingPongPom
Date Posted: 09/24/2022 at 12:48am


-------------
http://mhtabletennis.com



Print Page | Close Window

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd. - https://www.webwiz.net