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URL: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=92706 Printed Date: 09/27/2023 at 11:30am Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Kanak Jha suspended for missed doping testsPosted By: amateur
Subject: Kanak Jha suspended for missed doping tests
Date Posted: 12/18/2022 at 6:01pm
Posted today on Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/jhakanak/?hl=en" rel="nofollow - On December 1, I was given notice by the US Anti-Doping Agency that they are provisionally suspending me from competing or participating in ITTF, any clubs or member associations affiliated events, effective immediately, as a result of having missed three USADA tests within a 12-month period. As a professional athlete competing at a high level, I am required to comply with USADA’s Anti-Doping Rules and make myself available for random testing. I have requested and will receive an arbitration hearing to contest the missed tests. The judgement for the case will most likely be done in first quarter of 2023. I am hopeful that the arbitration committee will rule that the circumstances warrants a dispensation in one or more of the missed tests.
https://www.instagram.com/jhakanak/?hl=en
Replies: Posted By: Lightspin
Date Posted: 12/18/2022 at 6:41pm
Hopefully this gets straightened out soon and he can get back to competing.
Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 12/18/2022 at 8:16pm
This is not a good look.
In fact, it would allow for a lot of things that definitely look very bad.
------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Stiga Cybershape Carbon FH: GT BH: GT Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
Posted By: pongfugrasshopper
Date Posted: 12/21/2022 at 8:59am
I wonder if and how this affects Kanak's eligibility for https://www.teamusa.org/USA-Table-Tennis/News/2022/August/26/HPC-Decides-on-New-Model-for-Performance-Pathway-Grants" rel="nofollow - USATT's Performance Pathway Grant .
Off topic, but I'm wondering if Lily now has any competition for the largest grant (70% of total split between male/female) from Amy who is currently WR#68.
Posted By: hleett
Date Posted: 12/22/2022 at 5:20pm
Does it mean his TT career is over if he loses the case?
Posted By: stiltt
Date Posted: 12/22/2022 at 5:28pm
It could be medicine prescribed by a doctor, for example pills to treat adhd tennis players take because of a condition diagnosed within the rules. If the pills are prescribed by a doctor within rules that ITTF can hardly walk over, they get away.
Posted By: jfolsen
Date Posted: 12/22/2022 at 6:41pm
stiltt wrote:
It could be medicine prescribed by a doctor, for example pills to treat adhd tennis players take because of a condition diagnosed within the rules. If the pills are prescribed by a doctor within rules that ITTF can hardly walk over, they get away.
It sounds more like he was not where he said he was going to be at that time, so they showed up and couldn't do the random, unannounced drug test, not that he failed any test.
Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 12/22/2022 at 7:18pm
jfolsen wrote:
stiltt wrote:
It could be medicine prescribed by a doctor, for example pills to treat adhd tennis players take because of a condition diagnosed within the rules. If the pills are prescribed by a doctor within rules that ITTF can hardly walk over, they get away.
It sounds more like he was not where he said he was going to be at that time, so they showed up and couldn't do the random, unannounced drug test, not that he failed any test.
Yes, what Kanak is going through is not uncommon in tennis. It is just not a good thing when it coincides with a period of improvement. Hoping it is worked out.
------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Stiga Cybershape Carbon FH: GT BH: GT Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
Posted By: amateur
Date Posted: 12/23/2022 at 8:21am
When you think of anti-doping rule violations, a positive urine or blood test is probably the first thing that comes to mind. However, whereabouts failures can lead to stiff penalties for athletes included in the out-of-competition https://www.athleticsintegrity.org/know-the-process/registered-testing-pool" rel="nofollow - Registered Testing Pool (RTP) — even if they never used a banned substance.
Whereabouts failures are covered under Article 2.4 of the https://www.wada-ama.org/sites/default/files/resources/files/2021_wada_code.pdf" rel="nofollow - World Anti-Doping Code . Any combination of three missed tests or filing failures in a 12-month period will result in an anti-doping rule violation with a minimum sanction of 12-months.
Posted By: Basquests
Date Posted: 12/27/2022 at 6:01am
Most professional athletes are doping, it's just not a 'good look' because people don't want to know how the sausage is made.
The levels of cardio and body's sportsmen have these days isn't a result of eating chicken, broccoli and observing a little bit of sports science.
Wholly unsurprising that it exists in professional TT as well.
Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 12/28/2022 at 10:55am
Basquests wrote:
Most professional athletes are doping, it's just not a 'good look' because people don't want to know how the sausage is made.
The levels of cardio and body's sportsmen have these days isn't a result of eating chicken, broccoli and observing a little bit of sports science.
Wholly unsurprising that it exists in professional TT as well.
The existence of doping agencies runs completely counter to this. People do want to know how the sausage was made, to borrow your phraseology.
Outside of sports, even for things like movies, the existence and popularity of social media influencers like Derek from "More Plates for Dates" where he comments on whether certain entertainer bodybuilding results are achieved naturally or not shows there is some interest in the truth even if it isn't universal. The desire to know exists in a substantial part of the population. It is even more salient because there are people who want to emulate these stars so they need to have some rough idea of what is achievable through emulation. Saying that no one cares how the sausage was made is IMHO an overstatement.
With Kanak part of the challenge is that this is coming up after a period of good results. In any case I hope for the best. The look is really bad though.
------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Stiga Cybershape Carbon FH: GT BH: GT Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
Posted By: Twiddler
Date Posted: 12/28/2022 at 2:03pm
If Kanak has to sit for a year it could derail his career. After missing 2 tests how could he miss the 3rd one knowing he would have problems?
Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 12/28/2022 at 8:29pm
Twiddler wrote:
If Kanak has to sit for a year it could derail his career. After missing 2 tests how could he miss the 3rd one knowing he would have problems?
Those are the things that make it not look good.
------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Stiga Cybershape Carbon FH: GT BH: GT Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
Posted By: BETTERTT
Date Posted: 12/28/2022 at 8:56pm
Hi....it's way premature to judge him and to think that he is doping...we don't have enough info yet.
Maybe he was just acting like an irresponsible young person and missed the tests and thought that the consequences wouldn't really be that bad...or maybe there were issues that we dont know about.
I hope he isn't doping and that this whole issue is straightened out so he can continue to play and get even better. He is now doing quite well in the German League.
Posted By: LongLips
Date Posted: 12/29/2022 at 3:57am
I don't have a big problem with doping for table tennis players compared to other sports. Rather than needing big advantages in strength and stamina levels, I feel like doping just allows players to train the skills of the sport with less injuries. Just by training, there are so many repetitive movements that inevitably lead to wear and tear and injuries for different joints and muscles.
I'd be curious to know how widespread it is at the top level. I wouldn't be surprised if it was very common
Posted By: kagin
Date Posted: 12/29/2022 at 11:17am
I'm far from expert on this, but i believe this kind of thing is not about an athlete failing to attend a scheduled test.
If you're in the USADA testing pool you're required to inform them where you are at all times, which allows a tester to surprise you at any time, showing up and administering a random test. So if one day you go train at a different facility, or your team contest is rescheduled, or you decide to go skiing; you need to tell USADA where you'll be. If USADA shows up at your expected location and you're not there, that's a whereabouts failure. It's usually an indication of carelessness, not doping.
Posted By: zhuangcorp
Date Posted: 12/29/2022 at 12:00pm
If the same situation was in regards to an athlete from say Russia, would you apply him the same leniency? or would you immediately label him a doper?
------------- Dawei Bio X50
Globe 999
Nittaku Midship
Posted By: kagin
Date Posted: 12/29/2022 at 1:04pm
It doesn't matter what country you're from. A whereabouts failure is not good, but it's also not doping.
I don't think the top US or Russian table tennis players are using performance enhancing drugs. But that's just my uninformed guess.
Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 12/29/2022 at 2:28pm
A whereabouts failure is often used to avoid testing and conceal doping.
A lot of modern testing of athletes is done using a baseline view of that the athlete is like and seeing how far your test results deviate from the baseline. If you are not where you said you would be and it causes a delay in access, it can throw off the ability to build a consistent profile that shows your biological profile.
USADA testing can be pretty frustrating and lots of athletes complain about it, especially in tennis. Obviously we are all waiting to hear the details but it isn't a good look in the absence of information.
------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Stiga Cybershape Carbon FH: GT BH: GT Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
Posted By: mts388
Date Posted: 12/29/2022 at 4:44pm
I'm pretty sure that we're not on the list of people who need to know what the issue is. I'm sure at some point the results of the investigation will be made public.
Kanak seems like the kind of person who wouldn't use illegal drugs.
Posted By: blahness
Date Posted: 12/30/2022 at 7:17am
if there was a drug that reduces reaction time and improves situational awareness, TT players would really benefit from it
Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 12/30/2022 at 9:51am
blahness wrote:
if there was a drug that reduces reaction time and improves situational awareness, TT players would really benefit from it
Any drug that increases relevant hormone production and enables the development of strength development and quicker recovery pretty much does that by facilitating more focus and training.
I have to look more at the details but there was a time that even taking stimulants like adderall required exemptions because it enabled concentration on routines in gymnastics. People would always make the argument that the drug wasn't enhancing the performance, but it is a thinner line than you think.
You don't even need hypertrophy to get stronger taking medication, lots of muscle and strength can be developed at fairly invisible level on a low fat athlete, especially in table tennis where most of the work is on the lowee body/legs.
------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Stiga Cybershape Carbon FH: GT BH: GT Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
Posted By: Basquests
Date Posted: 12/30/2022 at 10:03am
NextLevel wrote:
Basquests wrote:
Most professional athletes are doping, it's just not a 'good look' because people don't want to know how the sausage is made.
The levels of cardio and body's sportsmen have these days isn't a result of eating chicken, broccoli and observing a little bit of sports science.
Wholly unsurprising that it exists in professional TT as well.
The existence of doping agencies runs completely counter to this. People do want to know how the sausage was made, to borrow your phraseology.
Outside of sports, even for things like movies, the existence and popularity of social media influencers like Derek from "More Plates for Dates" where he comments on whether certain entertainer bodybuilding results are achieved naturally or not shows there is some interest in the truth even if it isn't universal. The desire to know exists in a substantial part of the population. It is even more salient because there are people who want to emulate these stars so they need to have some rough idea of what is achievable through emulation. Saying that no one cares how the sausage was made is IMHO an overstatement.
With Kanak part of the challenge is that this is coming up after a period of good results. In any case I hope for the best. The look is really bad though.
I should've been more clear - the general public is very much anti-drugs as a whole, but the sports themselves are filled with drug users [or 'cheats']. The issue is that people want their 'heroes' to be clean and hate on them when they are not, which is even most movie-stars that are clearly juicing, claim 'natty.' The organizations in charge of the sports just want the stars and games to be played, and the drug agencies operate with that in mind...
I think it would be remiss to not research drug agencies and whose interests they are serving.
USADA has been incredibly shady WRT their servicing of the UFC, and the only members of the media with journalistic integrity are pretty unanimous in expressing that sentiment.
There's a reason none of the high profile fighters pop, and if they do, they invent bogus stuff like 'pulsing' in such a way that's ridiculed by anyone with half a brain cell, and obviously someone like Derek shits on them for [Jon Jones].
The care is more virtue signalling / public wanting their athletes to be clean, but the athletes are not clean and the organizations [from the ATP to the UFC to the NFL] not wanting to clean up the sport, rather just maintain the image that the sport is clean so the public isn't irate, the stars have a good image and the show goes on.
Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 12/30/2022 at 11:43am
Basquests wrote:
NextLevel wrote:
Basquests wrote:
Most professional athletes are doping, it's just not a 'good look' because people don't want to know how the sausage is made.
The levels of cardio and body's sportsmen have these days isn't a result of eating chicken, broccoli and observing a little bit of sports science.
Wholly unsurprising that it exists in professional TT as well.
The existence of doping agencies runs completely counter to this. People do want to know how the sausage was made, to borrow your phraseology.
Outside of sports, even for things like movies, the existence and popularity of social media influencers like Derek from "More Plates for Dates" where he comments on whether certain entertainer bodybuilding results are achieved naturally or not shows there is some interest in the truth even if it isn't universal. The desire to know exists in a substantial part of the population. It is even more salient because there are people who want to emulate these stars so they need to have some rough idea of what is achievable through emulation. Saying that no one cares how the sausage was made is IMHO an overstatement.
With Kanak part of the challenge is that this is coming up after a period of good results. In any case I hope for the best. The look is really bad though.
I should've been more clear - the general public is very much anti-drugs as a whole, but the sports themselves are filled with drug users [or 'cheats']. The issue is that people want their 'heroes' to be clean and hate on them when they are not, which is even most movie-stars that are clearly juicing, claim 'natty.' The organizations in charge of the sports just want the stars and games to be played, and the drug agencies operate with that in mind...
I think it would be remiss to not research drug agencies and whose interests they are serving.
USADA has been incredibly shady WRT their servicing of the UFC, and the only members of the media with journalistic integrity are pretty unanimous in expressing that sentiment.
There's a reason none of the high profile fighters pop, and if they do, they invent bogus stuff like 'pulsing' in such a way that's ridiculed by anyone with half a brain cell, and obviously someone like Derek shits on them for [Jon Jones].
The care is more virtue signalling / public wanting their athletes to be clean, but the athletes are not clean and the organizations [from the ATP to the UFC to the NFL] not wanting to clean up the sport, rather just maintain the image that the sport is clean so the public isn't irate, the stars have a good image and the show goes on.
Thanks, I get you now. I don't disagree much if at all, a lot of tennis makes me wonder whether any of Federer, Djokovic and Nadal are really clean. A lot of this stuff makes you think about ethics and what it means to have a fair playing field. I think now with the biological profiles, it is much harder to cheat, the main questions are related to collusion with commercial interests. That usually takes decades to be revealed if at all. It is hard to make a man do something that affects his paycheck negatively.
------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Stiga Cybershape Carbon FH: GT BH: GT Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
Posted By: amateur
Date Posted: 12/30/2022 at 2:07pm
Anyone remember Barney Reed Jr?
Posted By: mts388
Date Posted: 12/30/2022 at 3:34pm
amateur wrote:
Anyone remember Barney Reed Jr?
Barney was 20 years ago and young. He has really pulled it all together. He's got a great wife and kids. He's also doing a great job of coaching. As a bonus, he's a very nice guy.
Posted By: mts388
Date Posted: 12/30/2022 at 3:44pm
I've got some different views on cheating and cheaters.
In some sports (cycling) almost everyone cheats.
Some people are quick to accuse others of cheating, because if they were in the same position, they would cheat.
There are others that think that to get to the highest level in a sport, competitors have to cheat.
Some think that if everyone does it and the rule is not enforced (boosting) it's not really cheating.
I find at times if my opponent calls the score wrong in my favor and I'm not sure, or I don't question it, I will lose the next few points, feeling I may have cheated.
Posted By: Basquests
Date Posted: 12/30/2022 at 4:06pm
NextLevel wrote:
Thanks, I get you now. I don't disagree much if at all, a lot of tennis makes me wonder whether any of Federer, Djokovic and Nadal are really clean. A lot of this stuff makes you think about ethics and what it means to have a fair playing field. I think now with the biological profiles, it is much harder to cheat, the main questions are related to collusion with commercial interests. That usually takes decades to be revealed if at all. It is hard to make a man do something that affects his paycheck negatively.
From listening to people like Derek and those journalistic people [Luke Thomas etc], it's almost certain guys like Nadal, Fed, Djokovic are. Nadal and Djokovic are doing things in terms of physicality that are complete outliers for pretty much anyone on tour, and have for decades.
How can you be fitter than 99% of the tour, and more explosive...when a good chunk of athletes are doping?
I don't know about biological profiles impacting things - I do know for a fact that testing is always behind the production of drugs, and that regimens are incredibly smart and calculated meaning that the windows an athlete can test positive at are very very narrow.
Even for something as potent as EPO:
"A detection method for EPO based on isoelectric focusing exists (2). But as Catlin notes, “There is a variety of ways to hide [EPO] and stay underneath the radar.” The method looks for the differences in glycosylation that make endogenous and synthetic versions of EPO migrate slightly differently on the gel. The biggest limitation of the test is that it can detect a synthetic EPO only if the drug is taken within two to five days of testing. The testing is also time and labor intensive, for it takes 48 hours to complete and is finicky."
Guess what USADA don't typically even TEST for.... [Hint, its EPO].
Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 12/30/2022 at 9:14pm
Basquests wrote:
NextLevel wrote:
Thanks, I get you now. I don't disagree much if at all, a lot of tennis makes me wonder whether any of Federer, Djokovic and Nadal are really clean. A lot of this stuff makes you think about ethics and what it means to have a fair playing field. I think now with the biological profiles, it is much harder to cheat, the main questions are related to collusion with commercial interests. That usually takes decades to be revealed if at all. It is hard to make a man do something that affects his paycheck negatively.
From listening to people like Derek and those journalistic people [Luke Thomas etc], it's almost certain guys like Nadal, Fed, Djokovic are. Nadal and Djokovic are doing things in terms of physicality that are complete outliers for pretty much anyone on tour, and have for decades.
How can you be fitter than 99% of the tour, and more explosive...when a good chunk of athletes are doping?
I don't know about biological profiles impacting things - I do know for a fact that testing is always behind the production of drugs, and that regimens are incredibly smart and calculated meaning that the windows an athlete can test positive at are very very narrow.
Even for something as potent as EPO:
"A detection method for EPO based on isoelectric focusing exists (2). But as Catlin notes, “There is a variety of ways to hide [EPO] and stay underneath the radar.” The method looks for the differences in glycosylation that make endogenous and synthetic versions of EPO migrate slightly differently on the gel. The biggest limitation of the test is that it can detect a synthetic EPO only if the drug is taken within two to five days of testing. The testing is also time and labor intensive, for it takes 48 hours to complete and is finicky."
Guess what USADA don't typically even TEST for.... [Hint, its EPO].
The biological profile I think you can find n article on and it pretty much detects anything. Any major drug consumption will have a hormonal effect that deviates significantly from your normal profile. Doesn't matter what it is.
Of course if commercial interests don't want the most stringent testing, then it doesn't matter.
------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Stiga Cybershape Carbon FH: GT BH: GT Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 12/30/2022 at 9:16pm
This is why the frequency of testing to complete the passport is critical. Just innocently missing tests is a way of messing with the profile.
If your random testing trips up something, you can become the focus of more stringent testing. So as innocent as missing tests sounds, it is hardly innocent.
------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Stiga Cybershape Carbon FH: GT BH: GT Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
Posted By: apacible
Date Posted: 01/01/2023 at 3:29am
According to some German New Articles, Kanak changed his residence in Ochsenhausen but negligently forgot to inform the USADA of his new address. So, when the USADA inspectors went to his old address to conduct the inspection/tests, Kanak was of course not present for the test because he was already residing elsewhere.
Posted By: amateur
Date Posted: 01/05/2023 at 6:07pm
Well, being suspended hasn't stopped Kanak's ascent - in the new world ranking he climbed 3 places to #19 !
Posted By: dingyibvs
Date Posted: 01/05/2023 at 8:48pm
apacible wrote:
According to some German New Articles, Kanak changed his residence in Ochsenhausen but negligently forgot to inform the USADA of his new address. So, when the USADA inspectors went to his old address to conduct the inspection/tests, Kanak was of course not present for the test because he was already residing elsewhere.
You have to miss 3 in a year to be suspended though. What happened the other 2 times?
------------- Blade: Hurricane Long 5 (968) FL FH: D09C max BH: D09C max
Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 01/05/2023 at 10:33pm
dingyibvs wrote:
apacible wrote:
According to some German New Articles, Kanak changed his residence in Ochsenhausen but negligently forgot to inform the USADA of his new address. So, when the USADA inspectors went to his old address to conduct the inspection/tests, Kanak was of course not present for the test because he was already residing elsewhere.
You have to miss 3 in a year to be suspended though. What happened the other 2 times?
Maybe they notified him at his old address as well?
The whole thing is bizarre.
------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Stiga Cybershape Carbon FH: GT BH: GT Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
Posted By: Twiddler
Date Posted: 01/08/2023 at 8:59am
Ochsenhausen lost in the Final 4 in the German club championships. Kanak was not there.
Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 01/08/2023 at 11:03am
Twiddler wrote:
Ochsenhausen lost in the Final 4 in the German club championships. Kanak was not there.
Were he there, he would have had to defeat Truls and Dima for his team to have a chance.
------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Stiga Cybershape Carbon FH: GT BH: GT Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 01/08/2023 at 11:07am
------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Stiga Cybershape Carbon FH: GT BH: GT Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 01/08/2023 at 11:10am
------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Stiga Cybershape Carbon FH: GT BH: GT Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
Posted By: Twiddler
Date Posted: 01/08/2023 at 11:27am
Boll vs. Moregardh was an excellent match. Kallberg and Qiu lost easily.
Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 01/08/2023 at 12:01pm
Twiddler wrote:
Boll vs. Moregardh was an excellent match. Kallberg and Qiu lost easily.
That is unfortunate and weird. I guess I will have to see the matches.
------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Stiga Cybershape Carbon FH: GT BH: GT Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
Posted By: amateur
Date Posted: 01/08/2023 at 8:17pm
Twiddler wrote:
Ochsenhausen lost in the Final 4 in the German club championships. Kanak was not there.
And he must be kicking himself for missing the event, held not far from Ochsenhausen, in front of 5,000 spectators. (The SuperBowl of German table tennis, kind of...)
Posted By: amateur
Date Posted: 01/08/2023 at 9:58pm
Crazy shot that surprised even Moregardh (at 7:15)
Posted By: vvk1
Date Posted: 01/09/2023 at 10:58am
amateur wrote:
Crazy shot that surprised even Moregardh (at 7:15)
Standard amateur bh shot when out of position
So unusual for Timo to lose form when playing a BH shot.
Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 03/06/2023 at 2:34am
Amateur mentioned it in the http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=92936&PN=1#1138552" rel="nofollow - other thread . For those who want an update.
Posted By: DreiZ
Date Posted: 03/06/2023 at 4:33pm
zeio wrote:
Amateur mentioned it in the https://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=92936&PN=1#1138552" rel="nofollow - other thread . For those who want an update.
Posted By: amateur
Date Posted: 03/06/2023 at 7:02pm
No clear news yet. The coach simply hinted that Ochsenhausen might be able to use Kanak again in TTBL but then they ended up playing without him.
Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 03/07/2023 at 3:46am
For the record, Lily got tested at least 6 times in 2019 and 2 times in 2020/2021/2022, and Amy at least 2 times in 2019/2021 and 4 times in 2022. Kanak got tested at least 2 times in 2019 and 2021.
Posted By: amateur
Date Posted: 03/19/2023 at 9:37am
Ochsenhausen again playing without Kanak today
Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 03/19/2023 at 11:30am
is he on the bench or just not even under consideration?
------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Stiga Cybershape Carbon FH: GT BH: GT Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
Posted By: amateur
Date Posted: 03/19/2023 at 12:20pm
not in the lineup at all (which today included 4 players and even the coach), which suggests that he's not allowed back yet
Posted By: kagin
Date Posted: 03/20/2023 at 5:37pm
Posted By: Rinforzando
Date Posted: 03/20/2023 at 5:50pm
rip
------------- Blade: DMS Deluxe carbon FH: Bomb Hammer BH: Barna Super Glanti
Posted By: jfolsen
Date Posted: 03/20/2023 at 6:10pm
Well, that totally sucks.
Posted By: amateur
Date Posted: 03/20/2023 at 6:22pm
The "award" also voids his results from September-November 2022 (including PanAm championships and a couple of WTT events).
Respondent’s competitive results from the date of his anti-doping rule violation (third missed test), September 4, 2022, through the date of his provisional suspension on December 1, 2022, if any, are to be disqualified, and any medals, points, and prizes earned during that period shall be forfeited, as provided for in WAD Code Article 10.10 and ITTF Anti-Doping Rules Article 10.10.
Posted By: jfolsen
Date Posted: 03/20/2023 at 7:36pm
Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 03/20/2023 at 9:11pm
amateur wrote:
The "award" also voids his results from September-November 2022 (including PanAm championships and a couple of WTT events).
Respondent’s competitive results from the date of his anti-doping rule violation (third missed test), September 4, 2022, through the date of his provisional suspension on December 1, 2022, if any, are to be disqualified, and any medals, points, and prizes earned during that period shall be forfeited, as provided for in WAD Code Article 10.10 and ITTF Anti-Doping Rules Article 10.10.
I wonder to what degree it affects his TTBL results as well. Maybe they let the team keep the results but void his individual contributions.
------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Stiga Cybershape Carbon FH: GT BH: GT Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 03/21/2023 at 1:46am
Given the https://i.imgur.com/NmM0Nqw.png" rel="nofollow - current WTT calendar , he will start un-ranked in 2024. Won't be fun to start from the qualification draw.
Posted By: Lightspin
Date Posted: 03/21/2023 at 1:51am
"The drug tester attempted to call Jha before his one-hour testing window
was up, but the call did not go through as the tester did not dial the
“+1” country code for a U.S. phone. Jha did not include the country code
on his contact information and testified that the U.S. Anti-Doping
Agency never informed that he had to list a country code."
This is silly. I think he should have won the appeal based on this. In any case, serve the 1 year ban, keep training in the meantime and then he can hopefully keep on rapidly improving like he has been doing.
Posted By: dingyibvs
Date Posted: 03/21/2023 at 3:24am
Lightspin wrote:
"The drug tester attempted to call Jha before his one-hour testing window
was up, but the call did not go through as the tester did not dial the
“+1” country code for a U.S. phone. Jha did not include the country code
on his contact information and testified that the U.S. Anti-Doping
Agency never informed that he had to list a country code."
This is silly. I think he should have won the appeal based on this. In any case, serve the 1 year ban, keep training in the meantime and then he can hopefully keep on rapidly improving like he has been doing.
According to the article the call is just a courtesy call as the tester is not required to call the athlete before showing up. Also, a German phone number from what I can tell can be 10 digits. If you were an American tester given a 10 digit number to call a German athlete playing in the US, would it be reasonable for you to not dial Germany's country code first?
------------- Blade: Hurricane Long 5 (968) FL FH: D09C max BH: D09C max
Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 03/21/2023 at 7:53am
Lightspin wrote:
"The drug tester attempted to call Jha before his one-hour testing window
was up, but the call did not go through as the tester did not dial the
“+1” country code for a U.S. phone. Jha did not include the country code
on his contact information and testified that the U.S. Anti-Doping
Agency never informed that he had to list a country code."
This is silly. I think he should have won the appeal based on this. In any case, serve the 1 year ban, keep training in the meantime and then he can hopefully keep on rapidly improving like he has been doing.
I got a very different impression reading the whole thing. I got the impression that because Kanak had never failed a test, he just didn't take his responsibility seriously enough but that it wqs clear the tester went beyond what he had to do to contact Kanak but Kanak got unlucky on specific details but such crap happens when you are already in a hole of missing two tests ams gets magnified. Kanak will unfortunately miss the WTTC and other tournamenrs. I think his luck will be that he is playing out of North America in the qualifiers and there aren't any obviously talented new challengers. And of course, he is young.
------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Stiga Cybershape Carbon FH: GT BH: GT Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
Posted By: vvk1
Date Posted: 03/21/2023 at 9:39am
A more complete quote from https://olympics.nbcsports.com/2023/03/20/kanak-jha-table-tennis-ban-suspension-usada-drug-tests/" rel="nofollow - https://olympics.nbcsports.com/2023/03/20/kanak-jha-table-tennis-ban-suspension-usada-drug-tests/ :
During his one-hour testing window on Sept. 4, he was not present at the German address he listed on his doping-control forms, though he was at a nearby address.
The drug tester attempted to call Jha before his one-hour testing window was up, but the call did not go through as the tester did not dial the “+1” country code for a U.S. phone. Jha did not include the country code on his contact information and testified that the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency never informed that he had to list a country code.
So Kanak listed his German address on doping-control forms and his U.S.phone number w/o country code and it is the USADA's fault he could not be reached? Come on. He's been living and training/playing professionally in Germany for a very long time. This excuse is literally one step from "the dog ate my homework".
Posted By: jfolsen
Date Posted: 03/21/2023 at 10:32am
It's obvious that Kanak is not blameless here. I would be happier if the WADA rules were being enforced uniformly for everyone.
Posted By: Twiddler
Date Posted: 03/21/2023 at 11:14am
Many in the U.S have been disappointed in Kanak not participating in the Nationals and U.S Opens the last couple of years and now this. It doesn't make sense to not support your home association and membership.
Posted By: jfolsen
Date Posted: 03/21/2023 at 12:14pm
Twiddler wrote:
Many in the U.S have been disappointed in Kanak not participating in the Nationals and U.S Opens the last couple of years and now this. It doesn't make sense to not support your home association and membership.
Kanak already won 4 straight Nationals, from 2016 to 2019. He is now trying to become a professional table tennis player. That can't happen here (USA).
Edit: I'm not really disagreeing with you here, Twiddler, I would like to see Kanak come back and win more Nationals too. But I understand why he doesn't. There is also the sideshow that is the USATT at the moment.
Posted By: Slowhand
Date Posted: 03/21/2023 at 4:22pm
jfolsen wrote:
It's obvious that Kanak is not blameless here. I would be happier if the WADA rules were being enforced uniformly for everyone.
Have other players been treated less harshly for similar transgressions? This does seem like brutal punishment, as though they might be making an example of him.
Posted By: Lightspin
Date Posted: 03/21/2023 at 4:35pm
Usually for whereabouts violations the penalty is 3 months to 2 years.
I suspect the 3 months is outdated or old or has extenuating circumstances - if you read the court report, the minimum Kanak could have gotten is 1 year. The cynic in me says they gave him 2 so they could get it to one on appeal.
------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Stiga Cybershape Carbon FH: GT BH: GT Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
Posted By: Twiddler
Date Posted: 03/22/2023 at 4:36am
Twiddler wrote:
Many in the U.S have been disappointed in Kanak not participating in the Nationals and U.S Opens the last couple of years and now this. It doesn't make sense to not support your home association and membership.
Kanak already won 4 straight Nationals, from 2016 to 2019. He is now trying to become a professional table tennis player. That can't happen here (USA).
Edit: I'm not really disagreeing with you here, Twiddler, I would like to see Kanak come back and win more Nationals too. But I understand why he doesn't. There is also the sideshow that is the USATT at the moment.
Kanak was given a spot in the 2020 Olympics by USATT. He did not even have to qualify. So he owes them some support in my opinion. He can use the USATT for his World's and Olympic entries but not play in their big events?
Posted By: amateur
Date Posted: 03/22/2023 at 8:40am
Twiddler wrote:
Kanak was given a spot in the 2020 Olympics by USATT. He did not even have to qualify. So he owes them some support in my opinion. He can use the USATT for his World's and Olympic entries but not play in their big events?
If I remember correctly, it was Kanak who was instrumental in securing the US men's team's spot in the Olympics by beating Canada in the decisive match. He was then selected for singles based on his world ranking (as was Lily Zhang). He did not have to play the individual trials but he did qualify by fulfilling the previously established qualification criteria - he was not "given a spot."
Posted By: icontek
Date Posted: 03/22/2023 at 12:00pm
blahness wrote:
if there was a drug that reduces reaction time and improves situational awareness, TT players would really benefit from it
Posted By: kagin
Date Posted: 03/22/2023 at 12:58pm
amateur wrote:
If I remember correctly, it was Kanak who was
instrumental in securing the US men's team's spot in the Olympics by
beating Canada in the decisive match. He was then selected for singles
based on his world ranking (as was Lily Zhang). He did not have to play
the individual trials but he did qualify by fulfilling the previously
established qualification criteria - he was not "given a spot."
Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 03/22/2023 at 4:38pm
amateur wrote:
Twiddler wrote:
Kanak was given a spot in the 2020 Olympics by USATT. He did not even have to qualify. So he owes them some support in my opinion. He can use the USATT for his World's and Olympic entries but not play in their big events?
If I remember correctly, it was Kanak who was instrumental in securing the US men's team's spot in the Olympics by beating Canada in the decisive match. He was then selected for singles based on his world ranking (as was Lily Zhang). He did not have to play the individual trials but he did qualify by fulfilling the previously established qualification criteria - he was not "given a spot."
This is a situation where some interpretation is required, similar to your statement around how the US qualified for the Olympics.
There were initiatives to get rid of rankings criteria altogether and solely use trials. Kanak's situation was one of the reasons why those criteria were kept IMHO. So whether the criteria would have pre-existed without a nod to him and Lily is a real question.
------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Stiga Cybershape Carbon FH: GT BH: GT Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
Posted By: amateur
Date Posted: 03/22/2023 at 5:47pm
NextLevel wrote:
This is a situation where some interpretation is required, similar to your statement around how the US qualified for the Olympics.
There were initiatives to get rid of rankings criteria altogether and solely use trials. Kanak's situation was one of the reasons why those criteria were kept IMHO. So whether the criteria would have pre-existed without a nod to him and Lily is a real question.
Sure, I'm all for providing more context and offering various "interpretations" - the criteria for Olympic qualifying have certainly been rather messy as far as both ITTF and USATT are concerned.
As far as how the US men's team qualified for recent Olympics, I realize now that I conflated 2020 with 2016, when young Kanak's win over Pierre-Luc Theriault (after 0-5 in game 7) was decisive. In any case, no one can dispute that he at least helped the US team qualify twice for the Olympics over Canada - so it's not like he hasn't done anything for USATT or his country or whatever.
Posted By: BRS
Date Posted: 03/22/2023 at 9:47pm
ummm, didn't he sort of earn a spot on our olympic team by being our only half decent male international?
Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 03/22/2023 at 10:25pm
BRS wrote:
ummm, didn't he sort of earn a spot on our olympic team by being our only half decent male international?
That argument holds for WTTC where extra spots are given for being half-decent. That doesn't hold for Olympic competition, especially when it is reasonably possible for the team to make it without you. Just saying.
------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Stiga Cybershape Carbon FH: GT BH: GT Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...