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What type of sponge to glue on to Dr. Evil

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Topic: What type of sponge to glue on to Dr. Evil
Posted By: TwiddleDee
Subject: What type of sponge to glue on to Dr. Evil
Date Posted: 01/16/2023 at 1:46pm
I want to experiment with a sponge version of Dr. Evil, to use on my backhand. Would appreciate any suggestions for sponge type and thickness. I play with a Sardius blade with Moristo SP 1.8 on forehand, and presently using RITC 802-1, 1.8mm on backhand. Thanks



Replies:
Posted By: jt99sf
Date Posted: 01/16/2023 at 1:56pm
Dr Evil does not play well with sponge. Plays dead and bad response, like a bad anti.
But plays great on a Hock when OX.


-------------
Photino/Super Viscaria : H3 (FH)/Dr N pips(BH)

林德成 HardBat:Hock 3-Ply /Dr Evil


Posted By: yogi_bear
Date Posted: 01/16/2023 at 4:25pm
Bear in mind you cannot use that in competitions that are strict with the ITTF rules.

-------------
Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS

ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach


Posted By: TwiddleDee
Date Posted: 01/16/2023 at 4:43pm
I understand that. I saw a YouTube video of Dr. Evil with factory sponge, but have no clue as where to purchase it. It looks like it is on a medium hardness sponge. I normally play with it as OX on a 3 ply Hock. I think it might work well with a medium to soft sponge on my Sardius. Just curious.


Posted By: GeneralSpecific
Date Posted: 01/16/2023 at 10:08pm
Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

Bear in mind you cannot use that in competitions that are strict with the ITTF rules.


Yes you can. You can put any sponge under any topsheet as long as the total thickness does not exceed 4mm.

Wang Hao was famous for using a Sriver topsheet with a Bryce sponge on his backhand.

Many choppers use custom sponges under their pips.

All of this is completely legal as the ITTF only approves and regulates topsheets.

Even manufacturers like Spinlord take advantage of this. For example, Waran and Waran 2 use identical topsheets on different sponges. Waran 2 doesn't even have a 2 on the rubber. They have the same topsheet, with the same logo, and the same ITTF stamp. Only their sponges differ.


-------------
Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL
Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm
Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge


Posted By: TwiddleDee
Date Posted: 01/16/2023 at 11:53pm
Well then, I guess that I will have to figure out what type of sponge to attach it to.


Posted By: GeneralSpecific
Date Posted: 01/17/2023 at 12:31am
Originally posted by TwiddleDee TwiddleDee wrote:

Well then, I guess that I will have to figure out what type of sponge to attach it to.


How are you trying to play with it? Offensively or defensively? Would you prefer a soft or hard sponge?


-------------
Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL
Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm
Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge


Posted By: TwiddleDee
Date Posted: 01/17/2023 at 2:11pm
I use my 802-1 to block and counter-drive against topspin, and learned how to banana flip and brush loop against underspin. I play close to the table. I was thinking that Dr. Evil with sponge might improve those shots.


Posted By: GeneralSpecific
Date Posted: 01/17/2023 at 2:20pm
Originally posted by TwiddleDee TwiddleDee wrote:

I use my 802-1 to block and counter-drive against topspin, and learned how to banana flip and brush loop against underspin. I play close to the table. I was thinking that Dr. Evil with sponge might improve those shots.


If you like the sponge on your 802-1, just remove the topsheet and use that sponge. Use a hot clothes iron on top of the topsheet to weaken and soften the bond between the topsheet and the sponge.


-------------
Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL
Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm
Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge


Posted By: igorponger
Date Posted: 01/17/2023 at 3:27pm
Originally posted by TwiddleDee TwiddleDee wrote:

I want to experiment with a sponge version of Dr. Evil, to use on my backhand. Would appreciate any suggestions for sponge type and thickness. I play with a Sardius blade with Moristo SP 1.8 on forehand, and presently using RITC 802-1, 1.8mm on backhand. Thanks

    Hi, dear   
Legally speaking, you may not employ a separate sponge unless it approved by ITTF.   The sponge should be marked with the "identity label".
In accordance to the official ITTF Rule
Quote 3.2.1.3   Any ordinary pimpled rubber or sandwich rubber covering the racket shall be currently authorised by the ITTF ...

From this Rule it follows you have to use a rubber sheet as it comes from factory envelope, without any modification.   It is prohibited to disassemble the factory sandwich sheet anyway.


Posted By: GeneralSpecific
Date Posted: 01/17/2023 at 3:46pm
Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:

Originally posted by TwiddleDee TwiddleDee wrote:

I want to experiment with a sponge version of Dr. Evil, to use on my backhand. Would appreciate any suggestions for sponge type and thickness. I play with a Sardius blade with Moristo SP 1.8 on forehand, and presently using RITC 802-1, 1.8mm on backhand. Thanks

    Hi, dear   
Legally speaking, you may not employ a separate sponge unless it approved by ITTF.   The sponge should be marked with the "identity label".
In accordance to the official ITTF Rule
Quote 3.2.1.3   Any ordinary pimpled rubber or sandwich rubber covering the racket shall be currently authorised by the ITTF ...

From this Rule it follows you have to use a rubber sheet as it comes from factory envelope, without any modification.   It is prohibited to disassemble the factory sandwich sheet anyway.

That's not true. You are allowed to use any sponge you want under the topsheet. The rule you are quoting about the sandwich rubber applies only to the topsheet being authorized by the ITTF. You can use a Kutchen sponge under any topsheet as long as the combination remains under 4mm and the surface of the topsheet remains even.

Many professional players use custom sponges. For example there are MANY versions of DHS Hurricane 3 with different sponges but the LARC has only a single listing for Hurricane 3 on the LARC.

I listed more examples earlier.

There are zero regulations on custom sponges and we are all free to use any sponge we want under any topsheet we want.


-------------
Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL
Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm
Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge


Posted By: GeneralSpecific
Date Posted: 01/17/2023 at 5:18pm
Also, here is a review of Dr. Evil with a 1.5mm sponge
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9dDmUHk22k" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9dDmUHk22k

The 1.5mm version in the video can be bought here:
https://ttdd.eu/friendship-ritc-729-dr-evil.htmlatch?v=h9dDmUHk22k" rel="nofollow - https://ttdd.eu/friendship-ritc-729-dr-evil.htmlatch?v=h9dDmUHk22k

Or, as I keep saying, you can use literally any other sponge under the ox topsheet as long as the total combined thickness is less than 4mm and it will be completely legal.


-------------
Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL
Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm
Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge


Posted By: yogi_bear
Date Posted: 01/18/2023 at 12:42pm
Originally posted by GeneralSpecific GeneralSpecific wrote:

Also, here is a review of Dr. Evil with a 1.5mm sponge
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9dDmUHk22k" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9dDmUHk22k

The 1.5mm version in the video can be bought here:
https://ttdd.eu/friendship-ritc-729-dr-evil.htmlatch?v=h9dDmUHk22k" rel="nofollow - https://ttdd.eu/friendship-ritc-729-dr-evil.htmlatch?v=h9dDmUHk22k

Or, as I keep saying, you can use literally any other sponge under the ox topsheet as long as the total combined thickness is less than 4mm and it will be completely legal.


This rule was enforced years ago. Outside assembly of sponge and topsheet was banned by the ITTF. 


-------------
Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS

ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach


Posted By: GeneralSpecific
Date Posted: 01/18/2023 at 6:25pm
Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

This rule was enforced years ago. Outside assembly of sponge and topsheet was banned by the ITTF. 


Where and when? Custom sponges are sold on most stores. Multiple professionals are using custom sponges openly. Can you even be a professional chopper without a special combination of sponge and topsheet? Was Wang Hao ever banned for his custom sponge under his Sriver?

Where was the rule enforced? Even more, where is the rule written? Even if you do provide a source for the rule, should the rule exist, it is unenforceable. It's even less enforceable than banning boosters since you can at least measure its thickness should a rubber and sponge exceed 4mm total.


-------------
Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL
Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm
Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge


Posted By: mykonos96
Date Posted: 01/18/2023 at 9:32pm
Originally posted by GeneralSpecific GeneralSpecific wrote:

Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

This rule was enforced years ago. Outside assembly of sponge and topsheet was banned by the ITTF. 


Where and when? Custom sponges are sold on most stores. Multiple professionals are using custom sponges openly. Can you even be a professional chopper without a special combination of sponge and topsheet? Was Wang Hao ever banned for his custom sponge under his Sriver?

Where was the rule enforced? Even more, where is the rule written? Even if you do provide a source for the rule, should the rule exist, it is unenforceable. It's even less enforceable than banning boosters since you can at least measure its thickness should a rubber and sponge exceed 4mm total.

HZW plays with TSP sponge under 802SP


Posted By: GeneralSpecific
Date Posted: 01/18/2023 at 10:23pm
Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

HZW plays with TSP sponge under 802SP


Yes, there are many players openly using custom sponges. Ma Te is using a TSP sponge under his Palio CK531A long pips.

We're all allowed to do it and even if there was a rule, it is unenforceable.


-------------
Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL
Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm
Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge


Posted By: TwiddleDee
Date Posted: 01/19/2023 at 4:19pm
Thanks for all the feedback on this topic. I have decided to remove the sponge from my TSP Super Spin pips 21, and glue it to an ox sheet of 802-1. I will also  glue some 37 degree sponge to a sheet of Dr. Evil, and try that out as well.


Posted By: igorponger
Date Posted: 01/19/2023 at 4:29pm
Originally posted by GeneralSpecific GeneralSpecific wrote:

Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

HZW plays with TSP sponge under 802SP


Yes, there are many players openly using custom sponges. Ma Te is using a TSP sponge under his Palio CK531A long pips.

We're all allowed to do it and even if there was a rule, it is unenforceable.

Dear sir,
Please take time to study the latest revision of the Rule 3.2.1.3. You seem to be misled by the older edition.
   The current Rule edition has as follows:
   -- "sandwich rubber" covering a racket must be currently authorized by ITTF. This is to say BOTH topsheet and sponge must be awarded with ITTF approval. In order to implement identification of the sponge a special "idendity marking" shall be present on the back side of each sponge sheet.

Yours faithfully.


Posted By: TwiddleDee
Date Posted: 01/19/2023 at 4:55pm
OK, will do.


Posted By: jt99sf
Date Posted: 01/19/2023 at 5:00pm
I used to get my sponges from Cole, I don’t know if he still carries them.

-------------
Photino/Super Viscaria : H3 (FH)/Dr N pips(BH)

林德成 HardBat:Hock 3-Ply /Dr Evil


Posted By: GeneralSpecific
Date Posted: 01/19/2023 at 5:11pm
Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:

Originally posted by GeneralSpecific GeneralSpecific wrote:

Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

HZW plays with TSP sponge under 802SP


Yes, there are many players openly using custom sponges. Ma Te is using a TSP sponge under his Palio CK531A long pips.

We're all allowed to do it and even if there was a rule, it is unenforceable.



Dear sir,
Please take time to study the latest revision of the Rule 3.2.2.1. You seem to look into the older edition.
Yours faithully.
5


I can only find the 2022 ittf handbook. In that document, 3.2.2.1 talks about clothing. The 2022 handbook says nothing disallowing custom sponges anywhere. Is there a 2023 version out? I can't find a newer document


-------------
Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL
Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm
Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge


Posted By: GeneralSpecific
Date Posted: 01/19/2023 at 6:03pm
Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:



Dear sir,
Please take time to study the latest revision of the Rule 3.2.2.1. You seem to look into the older edition.
Yours faithully.
5

Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

Bear in mind you cannot use that in competitions that are strict with the ITTF rules.


In fact, I have even gone out of my way to do a little more research. According to official ITTF document 2022-09 M4 RC MANUAL 07.09 which goes into greater detail about racket coverings, not only do they say nothing against the use of custom sponges, they even say it is the player's responsibility to make sure the sponge or blade under a red topsheet is not too dark. I have attached a snapshot image of this:

I'll say it again. Not only is there no rule preventing us from using custom sponges, there is official text talking about the player's responsibility of not using too dark of a sponge under red topsheets. We are allowed to affix any sponge to any topsheet we want as long as it complies with the actual rules that actually exist.


-------------
Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL
Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm
Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge


Posted By: mykonos96
Date Posted: 01/19/2023 at 7:48pm
Originally posted by jt99sf jt99sf wrote:

I used to get my sponges from Cole, I don’t know if he still carries them.

I wonder if cole still has soft sponge to sell.


Posted By: jt99sf
Date Posted: 01/19/2023 at 8:56pm
I liked the canon sponge.

-------------
Photino/Super Viscaria : H3 (FH)/Dr N pips(BH)

林德成 HardBat:Hock 3-Ply /Dr Evil


Posted By: cole_ely
Date Posted: 01/19/2023 at 11:19pm
Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by jt99sf jt99sf wrote:

I used to get my sponges from Cole, I don’t know if he still carries them.

I wonder if cole still has soft sponge to sell.

Not as soft as they used to be.


-------------
Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b

Please let me know if I can be of assistance.


Posted By: mykonos96
Date Posted: 01/19/2023 at 11:32pm
Originally posted by cole_ely cole_ely wrote:

Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by jt99sf jt99sf wrote:

I used to get my sponges from Cole, I don’t know if he still carries them.

I wonder if cole still has soft sponge to sell.

Not as soft as they used to be.

35 deg?


Posted By: penholderxxx
Date Posted: 01/20/2023 at 12:36am
That's not true. You are allowed to use any sponge you want under the topsheet. The rule you are quoting about the sandwich rubber applies only to the topsheet being authorized by the ITTF. You can use a Kutchen sponge under any topsheet as long as the combination remains under 4mm and the surface of the topsheet remains even.

Many professional players use custom sponges. For example there are MANY versions of DHS Hurricane 3 with different sponges but the LARC has only a single listing for Hurricane 3 on the LARC.

I listed more examples earlier.

There are zero regulations on custom sponges and we are all free to use any sponge we want under any topsheet we want.


Edited by GeneralSpecific - 17/01/2023 at 3:50pm



we may further refer to advisory in the ITTF published document under ' FAQ 7/21 ', 2.8 which puts the matter to rest.


-------------
Iloveplayingtabletennis


Posted By: Rollko
Date Posted: 01/20/2023 at 11:46am
If the regulation is on the top sheet only and I can use any sponge underneath, that would effectively mean that boosting is allowed. But it isn't. Am I missing anything?


Posted By: mjamja
Date Posted: 01/20/2023 at 11:58am
Originally posted by Rollko Rollko wrote:

If the regulation is on the top sheet only and I can use any sponge underneath, that would effectively mean that boosting is allowed. But it isn't. Am I missing anything?

I think the logic used is that since the sponge is in contact with the topsheet any chemical applied to the sponge does change the topsheet also.  Even though the major effect is on the sponge it is still altering the topsheet so it is not allowed.

Mark


Posted By: GeneralSpecific
Date Posted: 01/20/2023 at 12:00pm
Originally posted by penholderxxx penholderxxx wrote:


we may further refer to advisory in the ITTF published document under ' FAQ 7/21 ', 2.8 which puts the matter to rest.


Thank you. This is an even better source than my own. Igor and Yogi seem pretty quiet now


-------------
Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL
Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm
Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge


Posted By: cole_ely
Date Posted: 01/20/2023 at 4:11pm
Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by cole_ely cole_ely wrote:

Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by jt99sf jt99sf wrote:

I used to get my sponges from Cole, I don’t know if he still carries them.

I wonder if cole still has soft sponge to sell.

Not as soft as they used to be.

35 deg?

Marked that, but not as soft as the old 35deg.  And kind of a cake style.


-------------
Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b

Please let me know if I can be of assistance.


Posted By: mykonos96
Date Posted: 01/20/2023 at 4:58pm
Originally posted by cole_ely cole_ely wrote:

Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by cole_ely cole_ely wrote:

Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by jt99sf jt99sf wrote:

I used to get my sponges from Cole, I don’t know if he still carries them.

I wonder if cole still has soft sponge to sell.

Not as soft as they used to be.

35 deg?

Marked that, but not as soft as the old 35deg.  And kind of a cake style.

Softer than 38deg?


Posted By: cole_ely
Date Posted: 01/20/2023 at 11:52pm
yeah maybe 37

-------------
Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b

Please let me know if I can be of assistance.


Posted By: mykonos96
Date Posted: 01/22/2023 at 9:26am
Originally posted by cole_ely cole_ely wrote:

yeah maybe 37

What short pips topsheet are available to use on that sponge?


Posted By: GeneralSpecific
Date Posted: 01/22/2023 at 1:54pm
Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

What short pips topsheet are available to use on that sponge?


Just go to his website, everything he has is listed there. It seems like he just has Winning NP-1 and NP-8 as far as short pips goes at the moment.
http://colestt.com/pips-out.php" rel="nofollow - http://colestt.com/pips-out.php


-------------
Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL
Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm
Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge


Posted By: cole_ely
Date Posted: 01/22/2023 at 4:12pm
Originally posted by GeneralSpecific GeneralSpecific wrote:

Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

What short pips topsheet are available to use on that sponge?


Just go to his website, everything he has is listed there. It seems like he just has Winning NP-1 and NP-8 as far as short pips goes at the moment.
http://colestt.com/pips-out.php" rel="nofollow - http://colestt.com/pips-out.php

Panamera


-------------
Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b

Please let me know if I can be of assistance.


Posted By: mykonos96
Date Posted: 01/22/2023 at 8:59pm
Originally posted by cole_ely cole_ely wrote:

Originally posted by GeneralSpecific GeneralSpecific wrote:

Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

What short pips topsheet are available to use on that sponge?


Just go to his website, everything he has is listed there. It seems like he just has Winning NP-1 and NP-8 as far as short pips goes at the moment.
http://colestt.com/pips-out.php" rel="nofollow - http://colestt.com/pips-out.php

Panamera

No friendship 802-1 ?


Posted By: cole_ely
Date Posted: 01/23/2023 at 10:08am
i think i have a few older sheets of 802-1 tops

-------------
Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b

Please let me know if I can be of assistance.



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