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Problem with tear mender

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skip3119 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skip3119 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/26/2018 at 9:19am
Originally posted by kindof99 kindof99 wrote:

Is rubber cement non toxic like tear mender?
===============
Rubber cement contains VOC.

Rubber cement can not be used to glue LP OX to the blade. 
(I use RC to glue inverted rubber with sponge.)
============
I buy Tearmender from Walmart online, and ask to ship it to a Walmart near me (avoid shipping charge.)
We are shopping in the said Walmart frequently, so it is not a special trip to just pickup Tearmender.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZingyDNA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/26/2018 at 10:09am
The VOC in the rubber cement will disappear after a while, making the glued rubber legal to use. I believe a former ITTF president said this himself.

Originally posted by BeaverMD BeaverMD wrote:


Huh? Are you saying you found a way to cheat the ENEZ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfolsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/26/2018 at 10:17am
Originally posted by ZingyDNA ZingyDNA wrote:

The VOC in the rubber cement will disappear after a while, making the glued rubber legal to use. I believe a former ITTF president said this himself.

Originally posted by BeaverMD BeaverMD wrote:


Huh? Are you saying you found a way to cheat the ENEZ?


This is true. The effect is mild and goes away pretty quickly.

There is a side effect, it slightly swells the rubber. If you put rubber cement on, wait for it to dry, then attach to a blade it will be slightly enlarged. When you remove the rubber it will appear to have shrunk, and no longer go all the way to the edge of the racket it just came from.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alisha_Hooksit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/26/2018 at 10:31am
Originally posted by BeaverMD BeaverMD wrote:

Originally posted by Alisha_Hooksit Alisha_Hooksit wrote:

Originally posted by BeaverMD BeaverMD wrote:

Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

It is weird to me that given the cost of blade and rubber that people persist with Tearmender when there are many good TT glues that don't present these problems. So they can save a couple of bucks on glue?


Timo Boll ZLC blade, $260
Two new sheets of Tenergy, $160 
Saving a few bucks on VOC-free glue, priceless Smile

And if you're still using rubber cement on any speed glue effect sponge (Tenergy or Tensors), you might as well flush your money down the toilet because you are not using the rubber but some mutated form of it.


Rubber cement mutates a pricey speed glue effect rubber and is like flushing your money down the toilet??? Is that a scientific and/or experience based opinion may I ask? For the record, rubber cement is NOT the same animal as speed glue, and while it does contain a modest level of VOCs, those quickly evaporate within a few days after gluing, so much that it will pass an ENEZ test at that point (you can look that up if you doubt it). Using rubber cement will initially soften the sponge somewhat for a mild and very temporary speed glue effect but does not cause rubber expansion nor adversely and permanently change the playing characteristics of the rubber, so it is simply not true to state that it ruins or mutates rubbers. WB glue on the other hand, is more time consuming, complicated, difficult to work with and apply evenly, overly expensive, and can damage an unsealed blade when removing it as you may find pieces of that priceless blade come off with the glue; and finally, as noted by others here, most of the stuff is quite difficult if not impossible to easily remove from the sponge for re-gluing. Rubber Cement +1000


Huh? Are you saying you found a way to cheat the ENEZ?


There is no cheating involved whatsoever, rubber cement is perfectly legal to use WITHIN a few days AFTER the VOCs evaporate. I am saying that RC is also a superior glue to the the Water Based junk, and will add that you are clearly ignorant of the difference between RC and illegal speed glue and that you should do your homework before posting bogus information.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alisha_Hooksit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/26/2018 at 11:04am
Originally posted by jfolsen jfolsen wrote:

Originally posted by ZingyDNA ZingyDNA wrote:

The VOC in the rubber cement will disappear after a while, making the glued rubber legal to use. I believe a former ITTF president said this himself.

Originally posted by BeaverMD BeaverMD wrote:


Huh? Are you saying you found a way to cheat the ENEZ?


This is true. The effect is mild and goes away pretty quickly.

There is a side effect, it slightly swells the rubber. If you put rubber cement on, wait for it to dry, then attach to a blade it will be slightly enlarged. When you remove the rubber it will appear to have shrunk, and no longer go all the way to the edge of the racket it just came from.


The side effect of RC can vary depending on the brand used, I have been using Elmers for 17 years (about $3 at Walmart), the only effect observed is an initial and temporary mild sponge softening, and have never had the Rubber swell and then shrink from the edges with re-gluing. Older brands of rubber cement often did have a higher VOC content than what is typically sold today and produced stronger effects, but were later reformulated like a number of other glues for safety reasons because of people abusing it for sniffing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kindof99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/26/2018 at 11:34am
Maybe I need to go with two options, TM for easy to glue paddle and another one for hard to glue material. It seems that fine zip is the way to go. Does Fine Zip really provide strong binding? Or other glue better?

Will it slow down the shipping if I order glue from TT11?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jt99sf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/26/2018 at 11:47am
Originally posted by skip3119 skip3119 wrote:

Originally posted by kindof99 kindof99 wrote:

Is rubber cement non toxic like tear mender?
===============
Rubber cement contains VOC.

Rubber cement can not be used to glue LP OX to the blade. 
(I use RC to glue inverted rubber with sponge.)
============


Yes you can, just need practice. 

Use push pins to fasten the OX LP to a piece of wood, apply RC and let dry and the rubber should be flat in 15 to 20 minutes.
Use a 2 inch roller and lay the rubber (non-glue side) on it and slowly apply the rubber onto the blade from handle to the top. Roll the rubber flat to get rid of air bubbles.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeaverMD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/26/2018 at 12:47pm
Originally posted by Alisha_Hooksit Alisha_Hooksit wrote:



There is no cheating involved whatsoever, rubber cement is perfectly legal to use WITHIN a few days AFTER the VOCs evaporate. I am saying that RC is also a superior glue to the the Water Based junk, and will add that you are clearly ignorant of the difference between RC and illegal speed glue and that you should do your homework before posting bogus information.

I'm not sure why you have a lot of anger.  If you found a way to beat the system, you should be pleased.  Maybe you're feeling some guilt.  I don't know.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alisha_Hooksit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/26/2018 at 6:07pm
Originally posted by BeaverMD BeaverMD wrote:

Originally posted by Alisha_Hooksit Alisha_Hooksit wrote:



There is no cheating involved whatsoever, rubber cement is perfectly legal to use WITHIN a few days AFTER the VOCs evaporate. I am saying that RC is also a superior glue to the the Water Based junk, and will add that you are clearly ignorant of the difference between RC and illegal speed glue and that you should do your homework before posting bogus information.


I'm not sure why you have a lot of anger.  If you found a way to beat the system, you should be pleased.  Maybe you're feeling some guilt.  I don't know.



Huge Sigh.....(Lord grant me the serenity to accept those who can read but fail to comprehend) Please ask yourself this, wouldn't you be just a bit annoyed with someone that is clueless, posts false information, and then accuses people of being cheaters who attempt to correct his stubborn, willful ignorance?? Please research the facts first before you spout off and insult people (are you angry because you've been exposed as proven to be wrong and now feel foolish???)

Either prove your claims or go home, as otherwise you do a disservice with your bogus information that is antithetical to the purpose of this forum and then have the gall to insult a multitude of players who still legally and ethically use rubber cement, so unless you can back up your words with evidence, take it like a man as a lesson learned, Beaver.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeaverMD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/27/2018 at 9:28am
Originally posted by Alisha_Hooksit Alisha_Hooksit wrote:

 

Huge Sigh.....(Lord grant me the serenity to accept those who can read but fail to comprehend) Please ask yourself this, wouldn't you be just a bit annoyed with someone that is clueless, posts false information, and then accuses people of being cheaters who attempt to correct his stubborn, willful ignorance?? Please research the facts first before you spout off and insult people (are you angry because you've been exposed as proven to be wrong and now feel foolish???)

Either prove your claims or go home, as otherwise you do a disservice with your bogus information that is antithetical to the purpose of this forum and then have the gall to insult a multitude of players who still legally and ethically use rubber cement, so unless you can back up your words with evidence, take it like a man as a lesson learned, Beaver.

It's interesting that you felt the need to introduce religion to the topic.  Do you feel that you need forgiveness? Are you letting children and pregnant women sniff the fumes from your racket? Are you seeking contrition?

As far as evidence, it is you who is claiming that you can use VOC glue in your racket and still pass the ENEZ test.  So, why don't you enlighten the forum by naming the tournaments where you have beaten the machine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZingyDNA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/27/2018 at 9:46am
What's the % of the posters here who actually played a tournament serious enough to have an ENEZ machine? Besides, isn't a former ITTF president's word enough to make it legal? Who are you to claim otherwise?

Originally posted by BeaverMD BeaverMD wrote:


It's interesting that you felt the need to introduce religion to the topic.  Do you feel that you need forgiveness? Are you letting children and pregnant women sniff the fumes from your racket? Are you seeking contrition?

As far as evidence, it is you who is claiming that you can use VOC glue in your racket and still pass the ENEZ test.  So, why don't you enlighten the forum by naming the tournaments where you have beaten the machine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roger Stillabower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/27/2018 at 10:06am
I thought it was common knowledge that rubber cement or even speed glue would pass the Enez test after they had been aired out for several days, but maybe I'm wrong.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alisha_Hooksit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/27/2018 at 10:48am
Originally posted by Roger Stillabower Roger Stillabower wrote:

I thought it was common knowledge that rubber cement or even speed glue would pass the Enez test after they had been aired out for several days, but maybe I'm wrong.


That is common knowledge for apparently everyone but the Beaver, who is apparently illiterate and does not even realize he is digging himself ever deeper into his pit of self-embarrassment and foolishness. I rather hope he keeps posting, this is amusing.

"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/27/2018 at 11:30am
Originally posted by BeaverMD BeaverMD wrote:

Huh? Are you saying you found a way to cheat the ENEZ?

BeaverMD: not sure whether you know or not how it works. Also not sure of your level of familiarity with different types of glues.

Trust me: it is not just individual players who sometimes use RC. I know first hand that some of the biggest TT clubs in the US (with lots of young players either in US team or close to it) glue their young members' rackets using RC. Not to cheat any system, but because it is adequate (so long as you're no EJ who shall remove / reglue often). And ENEZ is not an issue because the VOCs exit the sponge within a couple of days (which also means no boost effect either). The sponge might become very slightly softer, but that effect is quite minor.

So yes, legally, you may be cheating (as you would if you ever cleaned your topsheet using water) but effectively, you're not.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/27/2018 at 12:25pm
Originally posted by slevin slevin wrote:

Originally posted by BeaverMD BeaverMD wrote:

Huh? Are you saying you found a way to cheat the ENEZ?

BeaverMD: not sure whether you know or not how it works. Also not sure of your level of familiarity with different types of glues.

Trust me: it is not just individual players who sometimes use RC. I know first hand that some of the biggest TT clubs in the US (with lots of young players either in US team or close to it) glue their young members' rackets using RC. Not to cheat any system, but because it is adequate (so long as you're no EJ who shall remove / reglue often). And ENEZ is not an issue because the VOCs exit the sponge within a couple of days (which also means no boost effect either). The sponge might become very slightly softer, but that effect is quite minor.

So yes, legally, you may be cheating (as you would if you ever cleaned your topsheet using water) but effectively, you're not.

I use exclusively Tearmender as even on bad jobs I do not have adherence problems anymore.

Even if I agree with the spirit of that post I would add a reserve re. expansion: rubber cement contains VOC that expand the rubber and give it additional tension. If the rubber is applied right away after being primed with glue, the VOC are gone a couple of days later but that additional tension is still there and will remain. That is a violation, hence the addendum: rubber cement/paper cement and the heptane they contains is not illegal to use -in spirit- if the rubber, after having been primed, is aired out a couple days BEFORE being applied to the blade.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeaverMD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/27/2018 at 12:31pm
Originally posted by Alisha_Hooksit Alisha_Hooksit wrote:

 

That is common knowledge for apparently everyone but the Beaver, who is apparently illiterate and does not even realize he is digging himself ever deeper into his pit of self-embarrassment and foolishness. I rather hope he keeps posting, this is amusing.

"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."

"All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence, then success is sure"
-Mark Twain

Actually, you are doing enough amusing for everyone.  First you resort to name calling, then you bring in religion, now you quote literature.  Who are you going to quote next? Mother Teresa? Gandhi? Nelson Mandela? Maybe it's your guilty feelings.

Let's be clear here: you are the one saying you still use VOC glue and you have no problems passing the racket test.  Ok, so name the tournaments that you passed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alisha_Hooksit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/27/2018 at 12:40pm
Originally posted by BeaverMD BeaverMD wrote:

Originally posted by Alisha_Hooksit Alisha_Hooksit wrote:

 

That is common knowledge for apparently everyone but the Beaver, who is apparently illiterate and does not even realize he is digging himself ever deeper into his pit of self-embarrassment and foolishness. I rather hope he keeps posting, this is amusing.

"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."

"All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence, then success is sure"
-Mark Twain


Actually, you are doing enough amusing for everyone.  First you resort to name calling, then you bring in religion, now you quote literature.  Who are you going to quote next? Mother Teresa? Gandhi? Nelson Mandela? Maybe it's your guilty feelings.

Let's be clear here: you are the one saying you still use VOC glue and you have no problems passing the racket test.  Ok, so name the tournaments that you passed.


Now you have completely surpassed amusement and are downright hilarious, good job Beav, please keep it up!!!

BTW do you even read what others are posting in response to your nonsense (oh sorry I forgot that you are reading impaired).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeaverMD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/27/2018 at 5:20pm
Originally posted by Alisha_Hooksit Alisha_Hooksit wrote:

 

Now you have completely surpassed amusement and are downright hilarious, good job Beav, please keep it up!!!

BTW do you even read what others are posting in response to your nonsense (oh sorry I forgot that you are reading impaired).

You still haven't said where your VOC-glued racket passed an ENEZ.  Still waiting...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alisha_Hooksit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/27/2018 at 9:33pm
Originally posted by BeaverMD BeaverMD wrote:

Originally posted by Alisha_Hooksit Alisha_Hooksit wrote:

 

Now you have completely surpassed amusement and are downright hilarious, good job Beav, please keep it up!!!

BTW do you even read what others are posting in response to your nonsense (oh sorry I forgot that you are reading impaired).


You still haven't said where your VOC-glued racket passed an ENEZ.  Still waiting...


Beaver I am going to cut you some slack because I am guessing you are not even 15 years old yet, based on your obvious inability to understand what everyone is attempting to tell you. So Please, for your own good, re-read carefully what I said in my replies to you, and while you are at it PLEASE read what other posters have tried to tell you too. If you still do not understand it then ask your mom or dad to help you. If you do happen to be an adult, then please just go home and spare yourself any more embarrassment because in that case only little wit can excuse you.

Let me be very clear: I never stated that MY racket has passed an ENEZ test. Those are YOUR WORDS based upon YOUR misunderstanding of what I wrote. I did quite correctly tell you that ANY Rubber Cement glued racket will pass an ENEZ test a few days after the VOCs have evaporated and is therefore perfectly legal to use, the rules even specify this, and it was clarified as being legal some years ago by the ITTF President himself at that time. These are the FACTs, and you really need to understand that and also be very aware that it is VERY insulting to falsely call other players cheaters simply because YOU don't get it.

I really do hope that helps you, and if not we will just have to write you off as helpless and hopeless and then ignore you.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mickd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/27/2018 at 10:36pm
I'm going to chime in... I usually avoid drama. This might be the first or maybe second time I've commented on a thread with drama... but...

First, I want to say I don't agree with what BeaverMD said. But I think you're attacking him a little too personally there Alisha. There are many ways to say things. You don't need to make it personal.

Maybe edit your post a little (completely up to you)...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alisha_Hooksit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/27/2018 at 11:17pm
Originally posted by mickd mickd wrote:

I'm going to chime in... I usually avoid drama. This might be the first or maybe second time I've commented on a thread with drama... but...

First, I want to say I don't agree with what BeaverMD said. But I think you're attacking him a little too personally there Alisha. There are many ways to say things. You don't need to make it personal.

Maybe edit your post a little (completely up to you)...


I do appreciate that advice Sir, thank you, but I did not make it personal until being falsely and then repeatedly being accused of being a cheater (along with every other RC user on the planet), which is both very personal to me and highly offensive to many many other players, and so I responded in kind. If BeaverMD was indeed a kid I would feel differently but I just checked a minute ago and found that he has been on the forum for 11+ years and so is apparently an adult and thus should know better, so no apologies. Any adult that makes such offensive accusations should be able and ready to take it like a man when called on their BS when it blows up in their face. If anyone deserves an apology it's me and all the other legal RC users. So no regrets but I will also try better to heed your advice in the future.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skip3119 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/27/2018 at 11:41pm
Originally posted by mickd mickd wrote:

I'm going to chime in... I usually avoid drama. This might be the first or maybe second time I've commented on a thread with drama... but...

First, I want to say I don't agree with what BeaverMD said. But I think you're attacking him a little too personally there Alisha. There are many ways to say things. You don't need to make it personal.

Maybe edit your post a little (completely up to you)...
============================
I completely agree with mickd.
We come over here because we share the same interest in TT.
Either looking for information or reading something interesting or enjoy watching some match videos, we are here to enjoy life not looking for misery. When one side starts attacking, the other side is bound to respond in kind (back and forth) - it just not worth it.




Edited by skip3119 - 06/28/2018 at 12:21am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/28/2018 at 2:12pm
Alisha is correct on the facts but not so much with respect to forum style.

But this is the internet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocketman222 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/28/2018 at 4:11pm
I think Alisha has been pretty patient with trying to explain stuff, while beaverMD seems super stubborn about accepting facts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kindof99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/28/2018 at 6:46pm
It seems that anything can start a fight anywhere.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeaverMD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/29/2018 at 1:03pm
LOL! Glad to see everyone is having a little excitement.

I see Alisha has somewhat extended an olive branch.  It did have some backhanded comments, (Really you're gonna cut me some slack? From where I'm sitting, I'm not the one that needs it, pal.  LOL!)  Ok, that's the last potshot I'm sending.  But an olive branch, even with ambiguous comments, is still an olive branch nonetheless.  In the spirit of solidarity and support of moderators, I am happy to maintain the peace.

Also, I'm glad to see some people still mention the former ITTF President Sharara's comments about rubber cement.  Perhaps you may not know that this was actually my question way back in 2008.  Click here for the original thread.  It's the fifth post from the bottom.  If you are someone that says "I'm using rubber cement and it's' legal because the former ITTF president says so", you're welcome! I asked Adham that question because in 2008, water based glues (WBG) were a hassle and they tore up fibers on the blade.  I tried Andro Free Glue and Tearmender that year.  I did not like them and stayed on Elmer's RC until 2013.

So after my five year holdout, what prompted the change to WBG? In 2013, I read a post from a prominent vendor on MYTT (it might have been cagaragesales but it was a while back so not sure).  I have also read instances of ENEZ failures with RC ex. here which concerned me in case I played the Nationals or Open.  It looked like the WBG cagaragesales (or whoever it was) was discussing was pretty good so I went on ttnpp and bought Haifu Water Solubility Bond (WSB).  I glued a brand new Rakza 7 and to my shock, the previous sheet I had glued with RC was completely different from the one with WBG.  Different like night and day.  And it did not change when I took the sheet with RC and aired it out.  Over the next several months, I also did this comparison with other Tensors that I've tried like Pryde, Barracuda, XPlode, Blitz, etc.  The difference again is night and day.  So to me, why would I want to spend on a sheet of Tensor and have it not perform like it's supposed to.  It did not make sense.  My view is that with Tensors, the VOCs in the RC expand the speed glue effect sponge enough to make it completely different in feel.  And it does not revert when you air out the VOCs from the RC.  With the newer Tensors like MX-P and Rasant, my guess is the difference will be even greater as their sponges have much more pores to facilitate the speed glue effect (never tried those rubbers so feel free to prove me wrong).  This is my opinion from experience and nobody has to accept it just like everything else written in the forum.  I am just sharing my experience.  In the case of Tenergy, when I did the comparison with RC and WBG, there was still a difference in feel but not night and day like Tensors but noticeable.  I think after a few days, the two different sheets behaved similarly which is a testament to the high quality of Tenergy as it does not get "mutated" like Tensors do.  So to my brother jt99sf (I think you use T80), you don't feel the difference because of Tenergy's durability, not because you suck LOL! I also observed that if you use WBG to initially attach Tenergy, and you decide to use RC for subsequent gluings, there is pretty much no difference (because the WBG glue layer is blocking the VOCs I guess?)  Again, these are my impressions based on actual experience and actual comparison.  Please note that I only used Elmer's RC and not RC for something like tire repair which has stronger VOC content.  Wanna do the experiment like I did and share your views? Feel free.  I welcome your own observations.

About the ENEZ fracas, of course I know most of us play in tournaments without ENEZ testing.  But when someone tells me it's common knowledge the racket will pass, you are illiterate, the President already said this (which was an answer to me in 2008 by the way LOL!), well you know, I'm gonna call you out.  How are you gonna know it passes when it hasn't actually been tested? Not throwing a potshot, just mentioning the posts.  I think all of us are making an assumption that our rackets will pass using RC because we are airing it out and following the spirit of the rule just like I did from 2008-2013.  But nobody in here has actually said "Yeah, I was at the U.S. Open or whatever tournament and I used RC and used the ENEZ and it passed."  That would be a concrete testimonial.  Has anyone done this? I'm actually asking not trying to be cynical.

Also, there was a guy here I think he was from Germany or Sweden (I really wish the search function worked properly.  Alex, buddy, can you address this issue please?), he said there were league tournaments for amateurs in his country where using RC did not pass.  Not verified by me but just putting it out there for perspective.

There was one guy here (Fatt, I think it was you but forgive me if I am mistaken).  His technique is to use RC on both rubbers and let them air out overnight before attaching to the blade.  There was a year in either the Nationals or U.S. Open where they let you use the ENEZ but for your information only, not for actual enforcement.  His racket failed so he did something either he played with it all day or wiped the rubbers and handle and let them air out overnight in his hotel room.  The next day, it passed.  So the use of RC can pass or it can fail.  In the grand scheme of things, is this really important? I don't think so.  I mean, for the most part, I think people do air out the VOCs when using RC and even if they don't, it's not like you're going to get some great speed glue effect like Kim Taek Soo in 1995 LOL!

Just one last thing, from a health standpoint, a bottle of Elmer's RC is the least of our worries.  We've got other more dangerous items in our homes like bug spray, paints, bleach, maybe gasoline for a lawn mower, steak knives, etc.  But if you had a choice of safer bug spray and did the same job, wouldn't you buy it? Manufacturers are always tweaking their formulas.  They want us, the consumer, to be happy with their product (for the most part).  The WBG I used in 2013 and I have used other ones other than Haifu WSB like Nittaku Finezip and Paddle Palace WBG.  The WBGs in 2013 were much better than in 2008 and I would also be so bold to say that the glues in 2018 are much better formulated than in 2013.  If someone out there is trying to switch from RC to WBG, there is nothing holding you back.  I am writing this for those like me in 2013 who are thinking about switching, obviously not many of the posters in this thread... but that's ok too.  I did the same thing for five years so no need for me to be a hypocrite, right? Ok, a 4 oz bottle of Paddle Palace glue is $15 and most 100mL WBG bottles are about that price.  A 4 oz bottle of Elmer's is what, $2?  That's big savings, I get it.  But for different reasons: ease, hassle, not to mention if you use Tensor type rubbers you are "mutating" it with RC, there are no excuses.

But, these are just my opinions.  No need to get emotional if you disagree.  Like Frankie says, RELAX 


Edited by BeaverMD - 06/29/2018 at 1:10pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/29/2018 at 2:03pm
Thank you for a great post BeaverMD.
Yes, I used to air out the rubbers at least a day after priming them, I wanted NO EXPANSION.
Today I am a tearmender graduate but I am thinking of going back to my intermediate solution that you just mentioned: prime the sponge with tearmender and use a thin coat of RC on both sponge and blade. Waiting overnight to apply is still recommended of course because some voc will penetrate the WBG and expand the sponge a bit.
That way we get the best of each words: the whole glue can be taken off the sponge in one piece (what a treat!!), we get an even glue job easily without any adherence anxiety , RC costs less to use in $/gr and we also use less of it, it also dry so much faster; ABOVE ALL IN THE GLUEING PROCESS, NO WATER CONTACTS MY BLADE!!!!!!!
Last note: in that intermediate solution, all the glue coats, wbg or rc, are all 100% dried when applying the rubber to the blade so there is no more guessing/experimenting about almost-dry time for glueing and other insanities.
That’s the best solution IMHO, I am not back there because I do TM pretty well and also because I test less and less but this is definitely the best method for people moving rubbers from blade to blade all the time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/29/2018 at 4:06pm
One thing to keep in mind when quoting that passage by Sharara is that the VOC limit back then was 5ppm, as opposed to 3ppm now. What might have passed could fail now.

Another thing is that the performance of water-based glue is often underestimated, for reasons as BeaverMD pointed out above. Finezip has been tested to perform nearly as well as regular VOC glue.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alisha_Hooksit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/29/2018 at 8:13pm
Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

Thank you for a great post BeaverMD.
Yes, I used to air out the rubbers at least a day after priming them, I wanted NO EXPANSION.
Today I am a tearmender graduate but I am thinking of going back to my intermediate solution that you just mentioned: prime the sponge with tearmender and use a thin coat of RC on both sponge and blade. Waiting overnight to apply is still recommended of course because some voc will penetrate the WBG and expand the sponge a bit.
That way we get the best of each words: the whole glue can be taken off the sponge in one piece (what a treat!!), we get an even glue job easily without any adherence anxiety , RC costs less to use in $/gr and we also use less of it, it also dry so much faster; ABOVE ALL IN THE GLUEING PROCESS, NO WATER CONTACTS MY BLADE!!!!!!!
Last note: in that intermediate solution, all the glue coats, wbg or rc, are all 100% dried when applying the rubber to the blade so there is no more guessing/experimenting about almost-dry time for glueing and other insanities.
That’s the best solution IMHO, I am not back there because I do TM pretty well and also because I test less and less but this is definitely the best method for people moving rubbers from blade to blade all the time.



Well for my part I am also glad that the topic has returned to the ostensible purpose of sharing useful information and also will say that I did not set out to offend anyone and am sorry if some of my responses went a bit over the top. Reckon it's a good thing there is Tearmender for hurt feelings too.....

With regard to avoiding rubber expansion, a buddy of mine who once worked in TT shop taught me to apply the Rubber to the blade as soon as possible after applying the glue and it is ready to be pressed. This gives the Rubber little if any time to expand. I also only use 1 modest glue layer on the sponge and then a thinner layer on the blade, and typically press it within 3 minutes or so. This likely accounts for why I have not experienced the expansion and eventual shrinkage that others have noted by using the Rubber priming technique that typically uses more than one glue layer on the sponge, as multiple glue layers certainly do cause more sponge expansion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/29/2018 at 8:34pm
But then doesn’t the rubber expand in thickness after immediate application to the blade? The voc have to go somewhere and then, after the voc are gone, I’d be afraid of getting a third different rubber, including the one I won’t have a chance to try, the one off the package
Maybe I am nitpicking here...
I support any method that doesn’t change the characteristics of the rubber and that does not put the blade in contact with water. The intermediate method BeaverMD mentioned is closest to that imo.
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