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Provincial, National etc What's the difference

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idk View Drop Down
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    Posted: 02/19/2020 at 2:19pm
Poor trolling attempt
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jpenman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote jpenman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/19/2020 at 2:27pm
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Edited by jpenman - 07/26/2021 at 10:59am
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Edited by jpenman - 07/26/2021 at 10:59am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/19/2020 at 3:11pm
Originally posted by jpenman jpenman wrote:

Before all the conspiracies and theories about DHS rubbers start, the main differences are in quality: commercial is the worst, national the best, provincial in the middle. It doesn't affect spin or speed, it is just the quality of the rubber itself. I play with provincial rubbers and these are better than any Tenergy etc. National is only needed if you are national level, if not its not worth the money. Commercial can be pretty good too but only if you are boosting with about 4 or 5 layers otherwise they are pretty dead (national and provincial are a little bit better even without boosting, more consistent sponge). In general DHS designs their rubbers for boosting, if you don't boost don't play Hurricane or Skyline except the new H3.50 or TG3.60.

not true.. national version has a diffrent pip structure under the topsheet it was proved with pictures in a russian forum..pips are shorter and wider and allows flatter loops 


Edited by mykonos96 - 02/20/2020 at 12:03am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Kolev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/19/2020 at 6:21pm
Neo(DHS) actually is brilliant for any level. H2, H3,TG2,TG3 Just make a choice ...even if you buy all four, it will still be cheaper than one questionable National BS 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/20/2020 at 9:54am
Originally posted by jpenman jpenman wrote:

And some helpful links:

Quoting Em Rat Thic in the second link above, where he says he will explain "why pro players prefer Chinese rubbers on their forehand".  

That statement that is in fact FALSE unless you define "pro player" to mean "mainland Chinese pro player".  Because the vast majority of pro players from most of the rest of the world do use Butterfly (Tenergy, Dignics) or the various ESN rubbers on their forehands.  

I think we can safely state that Boll and Ovtcharov and Samsonov and Simon Gauzy (from France, see further below)  and many other people are "pro players".  Second, ERT claims that the reason Tenergy works is because it has "high tension".  In fact, the innovation was primarily in the nature of the sponge.  It is not more tensioned than its predecessors.  Third, the reason Chinese players prefer harder tacky rubbers is that historically from a young age they learn to play with those rubbers because they are produced in China  in vast quantities and are affordable, and their technique develops to use them effectively.  in China you can by a useable sheet of tacky rubber for about 1 USD.The Chinese don't dominate TT because of equipment.  Unlike  everywhere else, hundreds of millions of Chinese kids are exposed to the sport at a young age, the most talented have access to coaching and competition (including sports elementary schools), and are then rigorously selected in a system that considers it a matter of national prestige.  Those conditions dont exist anywhere else.

In other words, Em Rat Thic, a Vietnamese guy living in France, is about 80% full of crap.  I have traveled a lot in China.  I even visited a TT and badminton school.  (In Wuhan, where I have friend living in a danger zone now).  I have been coached there.  I would bet money that ERT has never been there. 

But I digress.  The only way to know if you like a rubber is to try it.  A 200 USD rubber wont make you better so don't buy it.  



Edited by Baal - 02/20/2020 at 10:09am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BRS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/20/2020 at 11:09am
Or as a really safe general rule, don't buy anything unless you get to try it first.  Borrow the bat of someone at your club school or team and play a few minutes with it.  If it feels good and you like it and you can manage the speed and spin, then you can buy with reasonable confidence.  

If nobody you know uses the blade or rubbers you are considering, you probably ahouldn't use them either.  Real people give better advice than the internet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote h0n1g Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/20/2020 at 11:33am
the only real difference that I’ve been able to tell is how well the sponge holds booster and how long the sponge lasts (aka how many times you can boost ist)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tinykin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/20/2020 at 2:47pm
Originally posted by jpenman jpenman wrote:

......... I play with provincial rubbers and these are better than any Tenergy etc..........

I think that you better qualify this statement.


Edited by Tinykin - 02/20/2020 at 2:48pm
Blade: Butterfly Revoldia CNF - FH: Butterfly Dignics 05, BH: Butterfly Dignics 05

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote fmarek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/21/2020 at 6:50am
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Originally posted by jpenman jpenman wrote:

And some helpful links:

In other words, Em Rat Thic, a Vietnamese guy living in France, is about 80% full of crap. 


I thought you are a better person before this statement.

Whoever is behind pingsunday is doing a perfect job popularising TT and providing heaps of useful practical advises. I like that author is clearly biased towards CNT. Watching matches of Chinese players is so much more entertaining comparing to other players (for many different reasons). It is also good  to know that there is a conspiracy behind their national rubbers, it makes it all much more fun. TT is developing because of enormous contribution of Chinese coaching team. They push progress forward by doing their routine analysis (I assume) of every good player out there and finding cure.

When ERT provide some "80% made up fact" by trolling Eu coaches he is giving arguments of "why". He explained the importance of correct grip, the reason why certain grip is better considering the anatomy of human hand and many other basics. Otherwise people like me would have to fish that all out from loose sources.

Grip explained.
Racket weight explained.
Types of setup explained.
Hard vs soft rubber explained with diagram.
ImPai explained.
Contact points are explained.

I don't care who is the original author of all that information. The way it is collected into single resource makes resource very valuable.


729 Green Goblin 5, FH: 729 Battle II National H39, BH: Palio HK1997 Gold.
DHS Long 5, FH: 729 Battle II Gold H40, BH: Nittaku C1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/21/2020 at 2:57pm
To each their own.  I will just say that several things he's said were contradicted by various Chinese coaches who've helped me over the years. I certainly don't regard him as an expert on Chinese table tennis or coaching methods.  If that upsets anyone, too bad.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote idk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/21/2020 at 3:19pm
Originally posted by fmarek fmarek wrote:

Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Originally posted by jpenman jpenman wrote:

And some helpful links:

In other words, Em Rat Thic, a Vietnamese guy living in France, is about 80% full of crap. 


I thought you are a better person before this statement.

Whoever is behind pingsunday is doing a perfect job popularising TT and providing heaps of useful practical advises. I like that author is clearly biased towards CNT. Watching matches of Chinese players is so much more entertaining comparing to other players (for many different reasons). It is also good  to know that there is a conspiracy behind their national rubbers, it makes it all much more fun. TT is developing because of enormous contribution of Chinese coaching team. They push progress forward by doing their routine analysis (I assume) of every good player out there and finding cure.

When ERT provide some "80% made up fact" by trolling Eu coaches he is giving arguments of "why". He explained the importance of correct grip, the reason why certain grip is better considering the anatomy of human hand and many other basics. Otherwise people like me would have to fish that all out from loose sources.

Grip explained.
Racket weight explained.
Types of setup explained.
Hard vs soft rubber explained with diagram.
ImPai explained.
Contact points are explained.

I don't care who is the original author of all that information. The way it is collected into single resource makes resource very valuable.



> Watching matches of Chinese players is so much more entertaining comparing to other players

In your opinion maybe.

It is also good  to know that there is a conspiracy behind their national rubbers, it makes it all much more fun.

There's really not much of a conspiracy to it.


When ERT provide some "80% made up fact" by trolling Eu coaches he is giving arguments of "why". He explained the importance of correct grip, the reason why certain grip is better considering the anatomy of human hand and many other basics. Otherwise people like me would have to fish that all out from loose sources.

Grip explained.
Racket weight explained.
Types of setup explained.
Hard vs soft rubber explained with diagram.
ImPai explained.
Contact points are explained.

This, among other examples from what I've seen, are what a lot of these types of videos do to people who don't know better. Get all caught up in small details over things that are mostly personal preference and actually have little effect on the improvement of an amateur at the end of the day.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/21/2020 at 5:20pm
I would worry about derailing the thread except it was started by sjan.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mischasln Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/24/2020 at 8:18pm
All this nonsense like "my rubber is better than xy" is more or less coming from (teenage) amateurs who have less skill than money. Yeah, sure, my BMW is better than your Mercedes. Buddy, there's only one factor to rule the game, it's called "skill". No matter how golden your blade or how provincial your rubber is; if your TTR is below 2000 just stop talking about quantum-table-tennis-youtube-research.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ABT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/03/2023 at 8:20pm
Load of bs. Tension rubbers produce terrible habits on the forehand. Chinese rubber supremacy all the way. Korean and Japanese players are starting to make the change. True, there are some decent players who have used tension rubbers and succeeded but they are no where near as powerful on the forehand side as the top Chinese players.

Right now, 6/10 top 10 mens players use Chinese rubber on the forehand.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fulanodetal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/08/2023 at 9:44pm
The difference is that after you bought the national version you're about $30 poorer than if you'd bought the provincial version. Ok, that's a bit of a joke, but there really isn't much difference. Or in other words, the difference isn't worth the $30/40 higher price.

As a club member, the difference was almost zero. The National version seem to last longer, and my shots felt more consistent. I love both versions. I tried a mountain of rubbers of all kinds for my fh and I confess I was skeptical of Hurricane 3. I thought it was just hype. But I tried one, sold to me by a friend. It took a while to get used to but it was worth the wait. Once you understand it it's hard to use anything else.

FdT


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