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Relative speed of Timo Boll Spirit

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BriDav12 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 08/18/2023 at 9:03pm
Is anyone willing to share their experience with the speed of the TBS relative to other (especially Butterfly and DHS) blades? Everything I read only compares TBS to Viscaria and TB ALC

On the forums, folks report everything from the blade being appropriate for beginners to it being a rocket (rubbers are relevant of course). The butterfly website reports it being a reactive (11.7 on their scale I believe) OFF blade but rev spin and multiple retailers list the speed as being more OFF- (Low to mid 8.x on a scale of 10).

I am moving away from DHS 301 with 09C (FH) and Vega Europe. It is my favorite setup all time (of course I've had many lovers LOL), but it is just a a shade fast for my intermediate level (only just though). Would a TBS with the same 09C/ VE setup get me where I want to go? How is it's pace relative to the inner ZLC blades (IF, Apolonia, Harimoto, etc). I ask because I'm also considering going back to Apolonia, which is a bit slower to H301; however, I'd prefer a more crisp KOTO blade

Cheers and thanks in advance 

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YoAss View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote YoAss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/19/2023 at 3:21am
To my humble understanding, "faster than" is a relation that is asymmetric, nonreflexive, and transitive. It induces a Scott domain (an algebraic bounded-complete consistent partial order), I would conjure, and probably even a complete lattice.

Given that the TBS is placed in that (conceptually) complete domain with a relative ordering putting it *very close* to Vis and TB ALC, that comparison to TBALC/Vis gives you a pretty good grasp on where things stand wrt to the "faster" relation in that domain, therefore. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/19/2023 at 11:16pm
Originally posted by BriDav12 BriDav12 wrote:

Is anyone willing to share their experience with the speed of the TBS relative to other (especially Butterfly and DHS) blades? Everything I read only compares TBS to Viscaria and TB ALC

On the forums, folks report everything from the blade being appropriate for beginners to it being a rocket (rubbers are relevant of course). The butterfly website reports it being a reactive (11.7 on their scale I believe) OFF blade but rev spin and multiple retailers list the speed as being more OFF- (Low to mid 8.x on a scale of 10).

I am moving away from DHS 301 with 09C (FH) and Vega Europe. It is my favorite setup all time (of course I've had many lovers LOL), but it is just a a shade fast for my intermediate level (only just though). Would a TBS with the same 09C/ VE setup get me where I want to go? How is it's pace relative to the inner ZLC blades (IF, Apolonia, Harimoto, etc). I ask because I'm also considering going back to Apolonia, which is a bit slower to H301; however, I'd prefer a more crisp KOTO blade

Cheers and thanks in advance 

What made you quit 301? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fulanodetal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/20/2023 at 2:20am
I have both Viscaria and Timo Boll Spirit. I use Hurricane 3  National BS on both sides.the answer in terms of speed is that it's just a little faster than Viscaria. Marginally faster. I put Hurricane 3 bc I wanted the control it brings. I can play with either Viscaria, if I want more control or TBS, if I want a tad faster. But theres little time required to adapt. Frankly idk which setup I like better. They are both so similar. I tend to prefer heavier Viscarias. I have a 83 grams one and I don't like it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GeneralSpecific Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/20/2023 at 1:41pm
Even in the modern era, the TBS/TBALC/VIS (and the others with identical structure) are upper half OFF blades. This is especially the case when you consider that the all wood Korbel is rated as OFF, even though I consider the Korbel as OFF- since the switch to the plastic ball.
Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL
Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm
Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vanjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/20/2023 at 2:48pm
Originally posted by YoAss YoAss wrote:

To my humble understanding, "faster than" is a relation that is asymmetric, nonreflexive, and transitive. It induces a Scott domain (an algebraic bounded-complete consistent partial order), I would conjure, and probably even a complete lattice.

Given that the TBS is placed in that (conceptually) complete domain with a relative ordering putting it *very close* to Vis and TB ALC, that comparison to TBALC/Vis gives you a pretty good grasp on where things stand wrt to the "faster" relation in that domain, therefore. 

I nominate this for post of the decade! Or I would if heavyspin would translate it for me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightspin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/20/2023 at 6:59pm
I found the Timo Boll spirit to be linear in power but slower in all aspects than the Viscaria which is also linear in power.  The Timo Boll Alc is close to the Viscaria at slower and medium speeds but has much more kick when you try to hit the ball hard. 

If you can try a bunch of rackets and see which one you like.  Of the three I mentioned I found the Viscaria the one best for me. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TwiddleDee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/21/2023 at 2:39pm
During my many years of inverted play, I went from a Keyshot, to a Spirit, and finally to a 91 gram Viscaria, using Tenergy 64 on the Spirit and the Viscaria. I enjoyed the Viscaria the most, as I thought that it had the best balance of speed and control. I keep that blade in my bag to serve to players who am coaching to return a variety of serves.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stavros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/24/2023 at 2:07am
I think TBS is slightly slower than TB-ALC and Viscaria. It depends on the weight of the blades also.
These 3 blades are extremely popular. All three are fast enough ,they demand a well trained athlete . 


Edited by Stavros - 08/24/2023 at 2:11am
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FH: Dignics 80
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doraemon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/25/2023 at 2:54am
In an authorized dealer store of Butterfly, I once was offered the last remaining stock of TBS (not the black butterfly tag but newer silver tag version) since majority of customers prefer Viscaria and TB-ALC (so the store owner wanted to get rid of that last stock of TBS).   I used to own TBS and MMaze long time ago (the black tag version) so I think I know the feeling of those blades.

To my surprise, that old stock of TBS felt very mushy and rather flexible.   Not the crisp and rather stiff composite blade that I used to know.  I don't know if it's an exception, but if it is like that, then it is definitely slower in all aspects compared to Viscaria and TB-ALC.

Edited by doraemon - 08/25/2023 at 2:56am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AMonteiro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/25/2023 at 6:41am
Originally posted by BriDav12 BriDav12 wrote:


I am moving away from DHS 301 with 09C (FH) and Vega Europe. It is my favorite setup all time (of course I've had many lovers LOL), but it is just a a shade fast for my intermediate level (only just though). Would a TBS with the same 09C/ VE setup get me where I want to go? How is it's pace relative to the inner ZLC blades (IF, Apolonia, Harimoto, etc). I ask because I'm also considering going back to Apolonia, which is a bit slower to H301; however, I'd prefer a more crisp KOTO blade

Cheers and thanks in advance 


If you are moving away from 301 because is a shade fast so TBS would be a bad move because It is faster than 301.

If you like koto crisper feeling you should consider Donic True Carbon Inner, so you keep that feeling and add a bit more control compared to DHS 301. 
Dynaryz AGR /Yasaka Goiabao 5 / Dynaryz AGR
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/27/2023 at 11:12pm
Originally posted by AMonteiro AMonteiro wrote:

Originally posted by BriDav12 BriDav12 wrote:


I am moving away from DHS 301 with 09C (FH) and Vega Europe. It is my favorite setup all time (of course I've had many lovers LOL), but it is just a a shade fast for my intermediate level (only just though). Would a TBS with the same 09C/ VE setup get me where I want to go? How is it's pace relative to the inner ZLC blades (IF, Apolonia, Harimoto, etc). I ask because I'm also considering going back to Apolonia, which is a bit slower to H301; however, I'd prefer a more crisp KOTO blade

Cheers and thanks in advance 


If you are moving away from 301 because is a shade fast so TBS would be a bad move because It is faster than 301.

If you like koto crisper feeling you should consider Donic True Carbon Inner, so you keep that feeling and add a bit more control compared to DHS 301. 
Alexander so how is 301 vs TBS?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AMonteiro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/29/2023 at 5:37am
Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by AMonteiro AMonteiro wrote:

Originally posted by BriDav12 BriDav12 wrote:


I am moving away from DHS 301 with 09C (FH) and Vega Europe. It is my favorite setup all time (of course I've had many lovers LOL), but it is just a a shade fast for my intermediate level (only just though). Would a TBS with the same 09C/ VE setup get me where I want to go? How is it's pace relative to the inner ZLC blades (IF, Apolonia, Harimoto, etc). I ask because I'm also considering going back to Apolonia, which is a bit slower to H301; however, I'd prefer a more crisp KOTO blade

Cheers and thanks in advance 


If you are moving away from 301 because is a shade fast so TBS would be a bad move because It is faster than 301.

If you like koto crisper feeling you should consider Donic True Carbon Inner, so you keep that feeling and add a bit more control compared to DHS 301. 
Alexander so how is 301 vs TBS?

TBS is faster, harder and stiffer compared to 301. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BriDav12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/29/2023 at 9:46pm
i I apologize. I am old and didn't realize that people replied (thank you you BTW). I quit the 301 but only temporarily. It's just a shade quick for me on tough, reactive shots; however, the 301 is bear the top of my all time list. 

To me, 301 has the crispness of the spirit with added feel and speed. For my $$, h301 and pg-5/5x are incredible value 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BriDav12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/29/2023 at 9:47pm
i I was just thinking that LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BriDav12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/29/2023 at 9:54pm
thank you for your feedback. I'm really wondering if the theory about differences with TBS/Visc/TB ALC are more about weight than particular "species" is true. 

I always assumed that Timo moved from TBS to TB ALC to gain more pace, (as he recently did with a tamca 5000 blade) and it seems counterintuitive to be that butterfly would build the same blade twice for the same player.  However, perhaps I'm wrong. It's therfore so dumb that I obsessed over and then bought the Spirit in part because Revspin (I should know better) rates it slower than Visc/TB ALC

Yup, I'm a junkie, but it brings me so much joy:)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BriDav12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/29/2023 at 10:06pm
thank you for sharing your experiences. This is fascinating to me because I moved away from 301 to TBS because to my eye, the TBS is a bit slower. I'm sad because I actually prefer the feel of the 301, but my TBS is so linear and I fly less balls long on reactive shots where I'm being pressured.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BriDav12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/29/2023 at 10:08pm
thank you for taking the time. This is exactly what I'm hoping for 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BriDav12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/29/2023 at 10:16pm
i appreciate the intriguing recommendation. I was actually looking at the true carbon Inner, CS-Z, and the Appelgren WC 89. Never played with Spruce though. Is it correct that spruce is closer to limba in terms of crispness (or lack thereof)? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BriDav12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/29/2023 at 10:51pm
any thoughts on the Xiom Feel AX?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kindof99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/29/2023 at 11:44pm
Originally posted by BriDav12 BriDav12 wrote:

any thoughts on the Xiom Feel AX?

I still remember buying that huge lots of tt stuff from you several years ago. Men, your EJ came back and seemed to get stronger
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BriDav12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/30/2023 at 3:25am
fair feedback
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BriDav12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/30/2023 at 6:27pm
i want to genuinely thank you for the feedback, as your reflection actually got me to realize that I've been out of control with the EJ stuff again. Relapse is hard LOL. Will stick with what I have. 

BTW I now agree with other posters that h301 is slightly slower than TBS, as, having received another TBS, I was able to just test them on the robot.
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