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Selling rubber that has been boosted

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Baal View Drop Down
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    Posted: 01/15/2020 at 9:29am
New rule.

If you are selling rubber on a blade (or used rubber) and that rubber has ever been boosted, you are required to disclose that to the buyer or your trading partner in your original ad post here.

Failure to do this going forward will be dealt with harshly.


Edited by Baal - 01/15/2020 at 6:42pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote patrickhrdlicka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/15/2020 at 2:49pm
IMO, it should be mentioned directly in the sales ad, not just disclosed to the buyer (the current rule could allow a seller not to mention boosting in the ad, but only later to the buyer in a PM)  

Edited by patrickhrdlicka - 01/15/2020 at 5:02pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piligrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/15/2020 at 2:59pm
Originally posted by patrickhrdlicka patrickhrdlicka wrote:

IMO, it should be mentioned directly in the sales ad, not just disclosed to the seller (the current rule could allow a seller not to mention boosting in the ad, but only later to the seller in a PM)  



agree
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Antuan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/15/2020 at 3:06pm
I agree of course. But it should be a normal and “ethical” behaviour of the seller.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/15/2020 at 6:41pm
Originally posted by patrickhrdlicka patrickhrdlicka wrote:

IMO, it should be mentioned directly in the sales ad, not just disclosed to the buyer (the current rule could allow a seller not to mention boosting in the ad, but only later to the buyer in a PM)  

OK.

See new wording.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/15/2020 at 7:17pm
I got an email from a relatively new member asking why I put in this rule.  Is a boosted rubber somehow "bad"?  He wasn't protesting this new policy, but he wanted to know the reasoning behind it.  I wrote a somewhat wordy response.  For anyone else who is curious about this here it is:

Whether you think it's good or bad, most rubbers are different after boosting.  They may be stretched, the sponge may be softer, and if the buyer wants to use his own booster am already boosted rubber may react differently than expected.  Some people think certain rubbers are pretty much unplayable unless they are boosted. Some people do it because they want to be "cool".   Some people won't care and some will but in any case it needs to be disclosed.

Some boosters put you right on the edge of VOC or thickness limits for tournaments.  That will depend on how many layers were applied, how much, which booster, which rubber, etc. etc..  So what if someone buys a blade with a heavily boosted rubber, doesn't know about it, and then his racket doesn't pass the check at a tournament or in a league event? People have a right to know if their rubber has been used in accordance with rules. 

I know there is a thread here about whether or not boosting is "legal" but IMHO it is a dumb thread, even though I contributed to its dumbness.  I personally disagree with the rule because it was unneeded, justified at the start by "alternative facts", extremely difficult to enforce and incredibly badly written.  However there is no question at all about what ITTF intended. And what they intended is that people shouldn't boost their rubbers.  Some people feel that it is therefore an ethical imperative and would never knowingly use a boosted rubber.  If they buy a blade with rubber, they have a right to assurance that it was not boosted.   

Based on a few transactions I learned about, it became clear to me that we need to protect our members here in transactions.

As someone else noted above, it really should have been obvious that you OUGHT to disclose this.  But it apparently wasn't.


Edited by Baal - 01/15/2020 at 7:19pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skynet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/16/2020 at 2:20am
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

I got an email from a relatively new member asking why I put in this rule.  Is a boosted rubber somehow "bad"?  He wasn't protesting this new policy, but he wanted to know the reasoning behind it.  I wrote a somewhat wordy response.  For anyone else who is curious about this here it is:

Whether you think it's good or bad, most rubbers are different after boosting.  They may be stretched, the sponge may be softer, and if the buyer wants to use his own booster am already boosted rubber may react differently than expected.  Some people think certain rubbers are pretty much unplayable unless they are boosted. Some people do it because they want to be "cool".   Some people won't care and some will but in any case it needs to be disclosed.

Some boosters put you right on the edge of VOC or thickness limits for tournaments.  That will depend on how many layers were applied, how much, which booster, which rubber, etc. etc..  So what if someone buys a blade with a heavily boosted rubber, doesn't know about it, and then his racket doesn't pass the check at a tournament or in a league event? People have a right to know if their rubber has been used in accordance with rules. 

I know there is a thread here about whether or not boosting is "legal" but IMHO it is a dumb thread, even though I contributed to its dumbness.  I personally disagree with the rule because it was unneeded, justified at the start by "alternative facts", extremely difficult to enforce and incredibly badly written.  However there is no question at all about what ITTF intended. And what they intended is that people shouldn't boost their rubbers.  Some people feel that it is therefore an ethical imperative and would never knowingly use a boosted rubber.  If they buy a blade with rubber, they have a right to assurance that it was not boosted.   

Based on a few transactions I learned about, it became clear to me that we need to protect our members here in transactions.

As someone else noted above, it really should have been obvious that you OUGHT to disclose this.  But it apparently wasn't.


I was also going to ask what the reasoning behind this new rule is. Was there actually a specific case where problems arised that led to this rule, and if so, could you disclose some more details?
I'd like to point out that I also do not object this new rule. Personally I do not care much for boosting...but as we (almost) all know, many "contemporary" rubbers come factory boosted, or are we exclusively talking about rubbers which were boosted at home?
For example, if someone bought a set-up from TT11 (say a Tibhar Force Pro with Evolution rubbers), tested it for 7-8 hours and then decides that this set-up is not his cup of tea and wants to sell it here on the forum, would this person be required to mention that the rubbers were factory boosted and would likely shrink by a few mm if taken off of the blade?
As I said, most of us already know that the Evo rubbers are factory boosted, so what would be the point of specifically mentioning it in this case? If I go to a restaurant or cafe and order a coffee I expect the coffee to be hot (or a least warm); no need to mention to the waiter / the waitress that I'd like my coffee hot...



Edited by Skynet - 01/16/2020 at 2:21am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Antuan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/16/2020 at 3:00am
Originally posted by Skynet Skynet wrote:

Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

I got an email from a relatively new member asking why I put in this rule.  Is a boosted rubber somehow "bad"?  He wasn't protesting this new policy, but he wanted to know the reasoning behind it.  I wrote a somewhat wordy response.  For anyone else who is curious about this here it is:

Whether you think it's good or bad, most rubbers are different after boosting.  They may be stretched, the sponge may be softer, and if the buyer wants to use his own booster am already boosted rubber may react differently than expected.  Some people think certain rubbers are pretty much unplayable unless they are boosted. Some people do it because they want to be "cool".   Some people won't care and some will but in any case it needs to be disclosed.

Some boosters put you right on the edge of VOC or thickness limits for tournaments.  That will depend on how many layers were applied, how much, which booster, which rubber, etc. etc..  So what if someone buys a blade with a heavily boosted rubber, doesn't know about it, and then his racket doesn't pass the check at a tournament or in a league event? People have a right to know if their rubber has been used in accordance with rules. 

I know there is a thread here about whether or not boosting is "legal" but IMHO it is a dumb thread, even though I contributed to its dumbness.  I personally disagree with the rule because it was unneeded, justified at the start by "alternative facts", extremely difficult to enforce and incredibly badly written.  However there is no question at all about what ITTF intended. And what they intended is that people shouldn't boost their rubbers.  Some people feel that it is therefore an ethical imperative and would never knowingly use a boosted rubber.  If they buy a blade with rubber, they have a right to assurance that it was not boosted.   

Based on a few transactions I learned about, it became clear to me that we need to protect our members here in transactions.

As someone else noted above, it really should have been obvious that you OUGHT to disclose this.  But it apparently wasn't.


I was also going to ask what the reasoning behind this new rule is. Was there actually a specific case where problems arised that led to this rule, and if so, could you disclose some more details?
I'd like to point out that I also do not object this new rule. Personally I do not care much for boosting...but as we (almost) all know, many "contemporary" rubbers come factory boosted, or are we exclusively talking about rubbers which were boosted at home?
For example, if someone bought a set-up from TT11 (say a Tibhar Force Pro with Evolution rubbers), tested it for 7-8 hours and then decides that this set-up is not his cup of tea and wants to sell it here on the forum, would this person be required to mention that the rubbers were factory boosted and would likely shrink by a few mm if taken off of the blade?
As I said, most of us already know that the Evo rubbers are factory boosted, so what would be the point of specifically mentioning it in this case? If I go to a restaurant or cafe and order a coffee I expect the coffee to be hot (or a least warm); no need to mention to the waiter / the waitress that I'd like my coffee hot...


We all know Baal is refering to the rubbers that WE boost personally, not factory boosted (which are practically all of tensor rubbers).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/16/2020 at 4:40am
To make things absolutely clear, I am talking about home boosted, not factory boosted.  

If you added booster after you received rubber from the vendor, then and only then you must disclose, also if you ever applied speed glue (extremely unlikely these days but I add it for thoroughness).9

Yes, it has come up, no I will not share details in this case.


Edited by Baal - 01/16/2020 at 4:46am
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