Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET Homepage
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Speed Glue and Rating Boost
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Speed Glue and Rating Boost

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Dream1700 View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 12/02/2017
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 268
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dream1700 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Speed Glue and Rating Boost
    Posted: 02/08/2019 at 6:24pm
Here is a hypothetical setup:
5-ply wood blade (Waldner Dicon) + Mark V (max) with OR without speed glue using the old celluloid ball.  Assume that the setup is what the player is normally using (without speed glue) but gets one month to adjust to the speed glue effect.

What is the expected rating boost for players of different strength (e.g. 1,500, 2,000 and 2,500+)?
Back to Top
patrickhrdlicka View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/17/2014
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1084
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote patrickhrdlicka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/09/2019 at 2:30am
0, 200, 50 
Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=69419&title=feedback-patrickhrdlicka

USATT rating: 2k+
Back to Top
ericd937 View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member


Joined: 06/01/2012
Location: Saigon, Vietnam
Status: Offline
Points: 1110
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ericd937 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/09/2019 at 9:54am
Question is irrelevant. You can't gain any rating points using the old celluloid ball. Rated tournaments don't use those anymore. 

Edited by ericd937 - 02/09/2019 at 9:54am
Current Setup: Trying to learn H3
Official USATT Rating 1815
Current estimated level:
Playing absolutely terrible
Back to Top
ericd937 View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member


Joined: 06/01/2012
Location: Saigon, Vietnam
Status: Offline
Points: 1110
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ericd937 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/09/2019 at 9:57am
Also, even with speed glue Mark V isn't that good . Last month, I just tried that. Baracuda or even Rozena unboosted is better than Mark V boosted. 

Edited by ericd937 - 02/09/2019 at 9:58am
Current Setup: Trying to learn H3
Official USATT Rating 1815
Current estimated level:
Playing absolutely terrible
Back to Top
Dream1700 View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 12/02/2017
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 268
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dream1700 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/09/2019 at 10:41am
To clarify, the goal of this exercise is not to gain rating points. I am seeking understanding of speed glue effect during ~80s-90s using the equipment available at that time. Re-gluing rubbers every other day - crazy times!

A separate question is how well present-day rubbers capture the speed glue effect. Eric did some interesting research.

Back to Top
ericd937 View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member


Joined: 06/01/2012
Location: Saigon, Vietnam
Status: Offline
Points: 1110
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ericd937 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/09/2019 at 11:01am
I don't think the stuff I use to tune my rubbers is a good comparison to the stuff they used back in the 80s and 90s. I'm using Reviver Phoenix. Its more of a long term booster. I've been experimenting with it for the last three or four months. You can use it on new rubber and it surely makes new rubber faster and spinnier, but I don't even use it on new rubber. I mostly just use it to bring rubbers back to life after the sponge starts to lose its oomph. The effects last three to four weeks at minimum. On some rubbers, the effect is 2 months or longer. I only started playing table tennis at the end of 2012. I don't have any experience with those short term boosters that require daily reboosting. 

Edited by ericd937 - 02/09/2019 at 11:04am
Current Setup: Trying to learn H3
Official USATT Rating 1815
Current estimated level:
Playing absolutely terrible
Back to Top
Tinykin View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/30/2003
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 2198
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tinykin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/09/2019 at 12:29pm
OP, it depends.
Speed gluing was a great hassle. Many players tried it, but generally, few players overall (below high level)
stuck with it.
In my view, SG made very little difference to the average hobby player's game unless he was training very regularly.
Think about it. If a hobby player boosts his Euro/Jap rubber, is his game immediately transformed  so that he starts beating players above his level?


Edited by Tinykin - 02/09/2019 at 12:34pm
>65yo, presently overweight rather than obese.

Currently testing; Darker Speed90 with T05H/Dignics05. Update; T05 on BH is impressive when all is right,but D05 wins more points

Delusion is an asset
Back to Top
icontek View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar
This is FPS Doug

Joined: 10/31/2006
Location: Maine, US
Status: Offline
Points: 5096
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote icontek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/10/2019 at 12:01pm
I was curious about speed glue and the new ball. 

However, some of the speed glue that is readily available like this one: 
LAB275
doesn't seem any better than mixing Best Test Paper Cement and Best Test Rubber Cement Thinner (Heptane). 

In fact, it both smells and plays suspiciously similarly to Heptane thinned rubber cement. 
It's not that impressive, with either classic Chinese rubber, or some modern Chinese rubber. It's decent for regluing ESN rubbers if they wind up peeling and then shrink.
US1260.RC992 . OSP Ultimate II : FastArc G1 + Rasant
Back to Top
icontek View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar
This is FPS Doug

Joined: 10/31/2006
Location: Maine, US
Status: Offline
Points: 5096
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote icontek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/10/2019 at 12:22pm
Originally posted by Dream1700 Dream1700 wrote:

A separate question is how well present-day rubbers capture the speed glue effect. Eric did some interesting research.


Rubber manufacturers have been claiming to reach the Holy Grail of "speed glue effect" for > 20 years (Donic Desto Series, anyone?)

But it seems to me that many modern rubbers approach the effects of what a light or moderate speedglue job could do, (in terms of increasing spin and control to allow you to play faster) but the interaction is more complex than you might expect. Especially since speed glue allowed people to take a sheet of rubber that they liked and amplify it a little, a moderate amount, or a lot.

1) Many rubbers match the speed of speed glue, but that was never really the point.

2) Lots of the rubbers capture some the sound of speed glue (especially softer sponges).

3) Fewer rubbers capture the control of speed glue (the feeling of catching the ball and releasing it at will).

4) And some rubbers capture the spin of speed glue (to be fair, no rubber can spin a plastic ball spin as much as speedglue+old rubbers would spin celluloid).


Good rubber might do 2 of those 4 things really well, or 3 of those 4 things reasonably well:

-Tenergy has long been considered a benchmark for rubber because it provided both the spin and much of the speed of VOC glues.

-Rubbers like Xiom Vega Europe provide much of the sound, control and speed of a light glue job.

-Rubbers like Nittaku Fastarc G1 give much of the spin, speed and control of a light-medium glue job.

Sorry to ramble.
US1260.RC992 . OSP Ultimate II : FastArc G1 + Rasant
Back to Top
stiltt View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 07/15/2007
Location: Northwest USA
Status: Offline
Points: 16152
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/10/2019 at 12:43pm
Originally posted by icontek icontek wrote:

...

-Rubbers like Nittaku Fastarc G1 give much of the spin, speed and control of a light-medium glue job.
...
I second that, I switched to G-1 following advice from rocketman222 and I do not regret it. I did not try to boost it but I got a used one that was boosted with FTL 3 days before and frankly it felt like less bouncy, more controllable and as much powerful as T05.
Back to Top
smackman View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 07/20/2009
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 3168
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smackman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/10/2019 at 6:19pm
The thing is any advantage in those days was negoated  by the opposition doing the same thing
Ulmo Duality,tibhar Aurus Prime Dr N Pistal Black
NZ table tennis selector, third in the World (plate Doubles)I'm Listed on the ITTF website,
Back to Top
1dennistt View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 03/03/2010
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 457
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1dennistt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/12/2019 at 2:27pm
Originally posted by smackman smackman wrote:

The thing is any advantage in those days was negoated  by the opposition doing the same thing


That is so true, but there were so many variables.  Some rubber glued better than others.  How much to use?  How often to glue up?  What if I run out of my favorite glue?

What was difficult for me was getting the same glue effect each time.  I was using either Butterfly Tackifire Drive, which got a medium glue job (about 38 degree on Butterfly's scale); or later Butterfly Catapult (32 degree), which got a very light glue job.  Catapult was one of Butterfly's early glue effect rubbers, so didn't need as much help.  I used to brush mine on the rubber, had some friends that would just tip the can over and pour out the glue.  Confused  I never understood how they got any consistency in the effect with that method. 

I remember seeing some players re-glueing at lunch at tournaments, others mid afternoon.  It was crazy, not to mention the smell!  Stronger than any booster in use now.

That's what I liked about Catapult, the effect was already built in, and a slight glue job was sufficient to make the rubber play like a Bryce FX, without paying for Bryce FX.  And fortunately for me, the throw angle was high with this rubber, so when Tenergy came out it wasn't a big change in racket angle to go to Tenergy.  I was already playing with a closed angle.


Edited by 1dennistt - 02/12/2019 at 2:27pm
Xiom Hayabusa Z+, Victas V>15 Stiff (Black) Max, Spinlord Keiler (Red) 1.8 mm,
Wt. 167 gm total weight
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.133 seconds.

Become a Fan on Facebook Follow us on Twitter Web Wiz News
About MyTableTennis.NET | Forum Help | Disclaimer

MyTableTennis.NET is the trading name of Alex Table Tennis Ltd.

Copyright ©2003-2019 Alex Table Tennis Ltd. All rights reserved.