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    Posted: 08/06/2013 at 5:24am
I need some help regarding the step around technique. I am referring to playing FH from the BH corner after rallying BH to BH (or pushing BH to BH). Often times I find that after I step around and prepare to play the FH from the BH corner, the ball goes to my extreme BH and I kind of get jammed or end up playing a weak forehand. Can any of you guys give me some advice regarding this issue? Thanks in advance!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZApenholder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/06/2013 at 5:35am
If you have good footwork, and can recover to your wide FH, then you don't need to worry and can follow this:

To solve your problem, while you notice the ball coming into your body (extreme bh) when pivoting, you will need to use your left feet and step again into your far left (in to BH corner if you are right handed).

You will be hitting the ball while in the air (moving towards the left), and kind of a inside out shot and will land about another metre from your orginal pivot position towards the left side.

To do this, you have to be on your toes during the pivot, so you can do this extra step quick enough. For the flat footed players, this is impossible.

Found this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z6AyEm8G0s
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote V-Griper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/08/2013 at 7:51pm
From the technical side what ZAP said is right on.

Imo you need to look at it from a tactical perspective as well and think more carefully about the BH you hit before the pivot as that is what sets up your FH. It's your BH that is giving your opponent the opportunity to go wide on you. 

At a basic level you need to do at least two things with the BH in order to set up your pivot. 

One option is to place the ball more towards your opponents elbow/body. This is more likely to cause your opponent to return the ball more towards the middle line.

The other option is to drive it with more spin/speed to the deep corner, this will make it more difficult to go wide on you due to time pressure. 

Basically if you give your opponent a weak BH that is wide of their BH corner you will be setting them up to go wide to your BH. 

Also I would suggest that your BH corner be the decision line, for now, with regard to whether or not you pivot and hit a FH. So if the ball will go off the table between the corner and the middle line then pivot, if it well go off the table wide of the corner than use your BH. As you develop better judgment and capability you can go after more difficult balls.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/08/2013 at 8:58pm
Hello ZApenholder and V-Griper,
Thanks for the advice! Really helpful! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/08/2013 at 10:08pm
I find that a slow, extreme heavy BH loop DEEP to the opponent's BH or crossover is a great way to setup the power FH on the next ball. You have a lot of time to move and see what opponent is about to do. Opponents do not cope very well with that ball and you get a slower block if your loop was heavy and deep. Also, as mentioned already, a very fast heavy topspin to their crossover can also set you up if you are fast and decisive with your pivot. Trying to fast slap it at them in the wrong spot is going to catch you late and give them way too much speed and angles to use against you.
 
The opener I describe is optimal after you get an underspin, such as you get from a short cut serve, or a fast deep cut serve they choose not to attack. if you are in a BH to BH flat or topspin exchange you will likely not make this heavy slow shot deep. An effective choice is go fast BH to BH 2-3 times and make a quick change of direction on that 2nd or 3rd ball coming back and shoot it down FH line to get a weak return or better, hit it suddenly to their crossover.
 
When you are in those fast BH to BH exchanges from the corner, it is too easy for opponent to see you step around and knock a little more to your BH and make life rough for you. In this case, you have very little time and your step around must be very fast, stable, a complete step around to get you in position to hit it anywhere. You have to stepping around as part of your recovery/rebound from your stroke. Often, there just isn't enough time to step around like that if you haven't practiced it a lot and often the result is you are caught in a half turned position that gives you few effective lanes to hit and makes you prone to errors trying to be too aggressive or exposes you to a ball going to your body or BH side. You try to attack that and you are losing the point more than not.
 
Stepping around ALL the way or better yet, setting up an easier, more predictable next ball for your FH step-around shot is a more practical solution. Setting up the next ball usually involves establishing some kind of rhythm with the opponent and suddenly breaking that rhythm and pouncing on the resultant ball. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/09/2013 at 2:59am
Very useful information. Thanks!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tinykin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/09/2013 at 3:37am
This shot takes courage.
In my experience, players simply don't step back enough to give themselves the room necessary to make the shot. Usually it's because they don't have the space as another table is nearby and when they do have the space, their subconscious tells them that there isn't.
I say that it takes courage as the shot can be a gamble as sometimes you get in a good shot but the opponent blocks down the line which looks spectacular and encourages much loud choing etc.
There are several videos showing MaLin and Schlager having this shot blocked. The title usually crows something about them being owned or some such nonsense.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote beeray1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/09/2013 at 3:58am
Originally posted by Vdog Vdog wrote:

I need some help regarding the step around technique. I am referring to playing FH from the BH corner after rallying BH to BH (or pushing BH to BH). Often times I find that after I step around and prepare to play the FH from the BH corner, the ball goes to my extreme BH and I kind of get jammed or end up playing a weak forehand. Can any of you guys give me some advice regarding this issue? Thanks in advance!!!

There are two very crucial and important things to keep in mind when getting good at playing FH from the BH side of the table. Those are Commitment to the shot, and practice. 

We aren't worrying about some hypothetical situation of blocking down the line or the technique of your stroke. You don't even need a racket to practice this, although it's preferred. Good footwork comes from  the practice part. To play this kind of shot, you have to practice it and practice it a lot. Again, you will not be good at this without putting the time in.  

The best ways of practice are multi-ball (of course), and shadow training. Shadow training is especially helpful because you aren't thinking about the ball, you are focusing on your feel primarily. Shadow training is best done with a table. If you don't have one, a mat on the floor representing the table works. If you have questions about shadow training, I'll try to link a really great video that Brian Pace did on the subject. 

Committing to the shot is important because it's potentially risky depending on your style of play along with your footwork skill. One slight hesitation will drop the quality of your shot dramatically and you will lose control of the point. You have to commit- that means getting out there further than you think you'll need to. You get jammed because you're hesitating to play the shot. You don't need to move back if its the open as the ball will hang in the air a bit. You do need to move back if it's mid rally and the ball will come out. 

There are two methods of playing this shot on the open. The more 'european' style is to play the FH from BH side, and grove your footwork into coming back in to play backhand after the shot. The more 'Chinese' way is to play your first topspin and then stay so that you are going to cover the whole table with your forehand on the next shot. That's where the cross step comes from. This is a very professional footwork though. At most levels, it's very practical to rely more on a backhand opening and making the decision from there. Opening FH from the BH side and the playing on is a little more advanced and definitely more demanding. 

Practice is all that matters. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APW46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/09/2013 at 7:23am
Originally posted by Vdog Vdog wrote:

I need some help regarding the step around technique. I am referring to playing FH from the BH corner after rallying BH to BH (or pushing BH to BH). Often times I find that after I step around and prepare to play the FH from the BH corner, the ball goes to my extreme BH and I kind of get jammed or end up playing a weak forehand. Can any of you guys give me some advice regarding this issue? Thanks in advance!!!
 
you need to change the angle of play, or vary the pace and spin with your preceding b/hand shot, otherwise you are just stepping around blind, you need to make your opponent think about having to control the pace/direction of your preceding b/hand, otherwise a good player will just switch you after you have committed and you are dead in the rally because your weight is on the wrong foot. that is why many players, as previously mentioned half commit and produce a poor stroke. The easiest way to get a f/hand in from a b/hand to b/hand exchange is to switch either wide to opponents f/hand or play quickly into his crossover point, either way he can't get you tucked in with an extreme b/hand angle. Then there are left handers.....LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote takethat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/09/2013 at 9:52am
my friends and I(experts in our own mind discuss this often)there is a mental block with 99% of the club players,with crossing that imaginary line extending from the table edge, they cannot cross it.We actually placed the table in line with the floor markers, and fed the ball to the players,they always remained frozen. The few that actually master it find the this can be a devastating shot during a rally,but a point sealer as a serve return. I think it is a drill worth trying.(we only had  right handers)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote V-Griper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/09/2013 at 2:13pm
Here is an example with players who are pushing each others limits on the pivot.

In general ML is more likely to pivot than ZJK as his FH is better. However ZJK's BH is so good that he can go up against ML's FH with it until he gets his own chance to pivot. The main takeaway is that most of the BH's are hit at the body not out wide and almost all of shots they pivot on are within 2 feet to the left of the center line. 

Don't pivot just to pivot. I'ts more about picking the right ball than just automatically doing it to try and finish the point.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smackman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/09/2013 at 5:15pm
Just practice the falkenberg drill, that's what it was designed for

the other thing to think about is you can't pivot on every shot, you have to wait for a return coming more center table rather than wide to backhand (not talking about pro level here)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/13/2013 at 12:01pm
Hello:
I got a chance to implement the suggestions provided in this post and my FH after my pivot is so much better now. The advice that helped me the most was the playing the shot to the elbow area before pivoting. Life is so much better now!!!

Thanks to all you guys.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/13/2013 at 12:11pm
Originally posted by APW46 APW46 wrote:

you need to change the angle of play, or vary the pace and spin with your preceding b/hand shot, otherwise you are just stepping around blind, you need to make your opponent think about having to control the pace/direction of your preceding b/hand, otherwise a good player will just switch you after you have committed and you are dead in the rally because your weight is on the wrong foot. that is why many players, as previously mentioned half commit and produce a poor stroke. The easiest way to get a f/hand in from a b/hand to b/hand exchange is to switch either wide to opponents f/hand or play quickly into his crossover point, either way he can't get you tucked in with an extreme b/hand angle. Then there are left handers.....LOL


A great explanation for the half-commit problem.  You can't have your cake and eat it too! But in the back of your mind you are aware that your previous shot was not that strong, it is almost impossible to force yourself to move far enough to actually succeed with the rip.  APW46 as usual pinpoints the most common problem.

Another problem besides hesitation is the lack of athleticism, which can screw you up---even if you do have a sneaky backhand that can go down the line too (the simple threat of which makes stepping effective).  A coach here, when she has good young players sometimes, shoves two tables together and gives them multiball drills to force them to step around really hard when they do step.  I tried it once not long ago.  I learned that some things are left to the young.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote decoi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/13/2013 at 2:01pm
after the steparound. try to include some sidespin  in the shot that way the ball is more likely to be blocked near the middle 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BMonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/13/2013 at 2:37pm
I learned alot from this little video.



Edited by BMonkey - 08/13/2013 at 2:40pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wturber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/13/2013 at 5:21pm
Originally posted by Tinykin Tinykin wrote:

This shot takes courage.
In my experience, players simply don't step back enough to give themselves the room necessary to make the shot. Usually it's because they don't have the space as another table is nearby and when they do have the space, their subconscious tells them that there isn't.
I say that it takes courage as the shot can be a gamble as sometimes you get in a good shot but the opponent blocks down the line which looks spectacular and encourages much loud choing etc.
There are several videos showing MaLin and Schlager having this shot blocked. The title usually crows something about them being owned or some such nonsense.


At our club we typically say, "Nobody home."  :^)


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/13/2013 at 6:22pm
Agree with Andy 47. You have to change something and give them something different and difficult to ace you if you commit. That is why I recommended changing to crossover of sudden down the line FH (If you think they will barely get there and give you a weak ball. Changing the spin and pace and direction suddenly on your setup shot is great advice, prolly better than trying for pure speed alone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/14/2013 at 4:52pm
the falkenberg is the best routine ever for cardio and pivot around the bh with recovery to allow "somebody at home" when the block goes along the line.

the best clip ever to learn it from a video is imo this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nD04UQiZsyw&t=1m54s

there is a lot of table tennis technique to learn in that unique drill; recovery bh to fh, fh to fh, side step and pivot...

We talked about it a while ago.





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