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Table Disinfectant

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    Posted: 08/06/2020 at 4:31am
Hello,

Our club will soon reopen for play. However, the club management has requested me to formulate & draft a set of new COVID specific rules and guidelines (For which, I am open to suggestions from fellow forum members) 

One of the Rules we'll be stipulating, is, defecting the Tables,regularly... I'm looking for a disinfectant thats TT Table friendly ..  
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Cleaners with dizinfecting effect highly recommended by ITTF

https://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/Sanitizer-for-approved-tables-25-June.pdf

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/06/2020 at 9:20pm
Hi,

draft a set of new COVID specific rules and guidelines (For which, I am open to suggestions from fellow forum members) 

As reported, there is broad range of regulations that are being incorporated by table tennis clubs' management.

Some of these rules are more eye-catching than others.  Such as:

o  One club is discouraging those of advanced ages from entering the club facilities, presuming they possess an especially disagreeable threat to those still in possession of youth.  You can't be too careful.

o  One club in the Netherlands has declared that the restrooms should only be used if the need is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY. (It is assumed a designated club official shall make the final determination.)  If the urgency is less so, such as only moderately necessary, then the individual is to hold it until the person departs the facility.  It may be the case that two sets of bushes were planted outside the building, one set for the men, one for the women, for those who prefer not to wait until they arrive at home. 

o  Another regulatory implementation at a club requires the ball to be sanitized after each point, as the ball, flying through the air as it does, may encounter the inflected aerosols floating about, with an inevitably diseased engagement.  This is science.

o  One club has a mandatory task for the players to sanitize the table after use.  Failure to do so will subject the guilty parties to a $50 fine, per infraction occurrence. 

o  America's leading epidemiologist is recommending the use of goggles to accompany the use of masks whenever a person is around people.  The appropriateness of this for table tennis people at a club is very obvious and compelling. 

o  At the club level, strongly it has been advised to hire both a doctor and a lawyer to handle club matters in their areas of expertise.

o  Another club has designated that each player use their own ball when serving, with the restriction that only the ball owner may touch their own ball.  Though this results in each owner often visiting the other side of the court to retrieve their ball, this no-ball-touchy regulation is worth it in safety terms, as long as they both are wearing masks, goggles, and are social distancing.

o  One club has mandated that a person may not touch another person at the club.  It is called the NO TOUCH rule.  Though it may seem an intrusion on personal freedom for consenting adults, this strict caution is necessary for the less mature and responsible among us.  And it blends well with an American recommendation long ago stated that, in the COVID era, one should not touch one's own face with their own hands.  (You should touch your face with other than your hands.)  If that is OK, then prohibiting touching others is too. 

o  A national organization has recommended each table tennis club have a "health station" within the club, an area attended full time during club hours by a qualified and appropriately trained person to handle all matters of medical need, including testing and treatment, as needed. 

As I learn more recommended COVID regulations for table tennis clubs, I will extend this list.

Thanks.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Veet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/07/2020 at 2:51am
Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

Hi,

draft a set of new COVID specific rules and guidelines (For which, I am open to suggestions from fellow forum members) 

As reported, there is broad range of regulations that are being incorporated by table tennis clubs' management.

Some of these rules are more eye-catching than others.  Such as:

o  One club is discouraging those of advanced ages from entering the club facilities, presuming they possess an especially disagreeable threat to those still in possession of youth.  You can't be too careful.

o  One club in the Netherlands has declared that the restrooms should only be used if the need is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY. (It is assumed a designated club official shall make the final determination.)  If the urgency is less so, such as only moderately necessary, then the individual is to hold it until the person departs the facility.  It may be the case that two sets of bushes were planted outside the building, one set for the men, one for the women, for those who prefer not to wait until they arrive at home. 

o  Another regulatory implementation at a club requires the ball to be sanitized after each point, as the ball, flying through the air as it does, may encounter the inflected aerosols floating about, with an inevitably diseased engagement.  This is science.

o  One club has a mandatory task for the players to sanitize the table after use.  Failure to do so will subject the guilty parties to a $50 fine, per infraction occurrence. 

o  America's leading epidemiologist is recommending the use of goggles to accompany the use of masks whenever a person is around people.  The appropriateness of this for table tennis people at a club is very obvious and compelling. 

o  At the club level, strongly it has been advised to hire both a doctor and a lawyer to handle club matters in their areas of expertise.

o  Another club has designated that each player use their own ball when serving, with the restriction that only the ball owner may touch their own ball.  Though this results in each owner often visiting the other side of the court to retrieve their ball, this no-ball-touchy regulation is worth it in safety terms, as long as they both are wearing masks, goggles, and are social distancing.

o  One club has mandated that a person may not touch another person at the club.  It is called the NO TOUCH rule.  Though it may seem an intrusion on personal freedom for consenting adults, this strict caution is necessary for the less mature and responsible among us.  And it blends well with an American recommendation long ago stated that, in the COVID era, one should not touch one's own face with their own hands.  (You should touch your face with other than your hands.)  If that is OK, then prohibiting touching others is too. 

o  A national organization has recommended each table tennis club have a "health station" within the club, an area attended full time during club hours by a qualified and appropriately trained person to handle all matters of medical need, including testing and treatment, as needed. 

As I learn more recommended COVID regulations for table tennis clubs, I will extend this list.

Thanks.

Okay, most of the above are downright ludicrous ..

I do favour the Sanitize table point, though... Where I am, the whether can get quite balmy, and a lot of players (me included) sweat excessively, spraying sweat all over the table.. There are some, who play with the mouth-open (me NOT included), and probably spray saliva too .. Even during the pre-COVIDian era (remember those good ol' days ...?), I would give the tables a thorough wipe-down with a Water solution, once in a way .. This, solution, unfortunately, does not make the cut, for the current COVIDian era. 

I've come-up with a few, not so ludicrous (IMHO) guidelines.. I'm sharing them, for the benefit of the community ..

  1. Only 4 players allowed to play, at any given point of time, across 2 tables... The tables would have to be pre-booked,in slots of 2 hrs.. No booking, no entry .. 

  2. Players will ensure that after they finishing playing, they'll sanitize the table they've played on.

  3. An air-out time of 1 hour, between each slot. This period would be used to sanitize the tables.

  4. Upon entry, and before play, each player must use the hand sanitizer available on-site before beginning play to ensure balls and hands are and remain clean

  5. The premises will be cleaned, wiped, and disinfected daily.

  6. There'll be a barrier between the tables to keep the balls on the same table throughout play..

  7. Anyone who is feeling sick or has a cough should not come.

  8. Players to avoid hand-shakes, fist-bumps, back-pats, etc ... Air high-fives, bumps, are encouraged... Tongue

  9. Although, not mandatory, we encourage players to maintain distance from each other..

  10. Each playing member would be required to contribute X-Amount towards table sanitizers, wipes etc.. Direct donations of the same, are most welcome..

  11. Please avoid sharing/swapping of racquets... Bring and use your own.. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Veet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/07/2020 at 2:52am
Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:

Cleaners with dizinfecting effect highly recommended by ITTF

https://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/Sanitizer-for-approved-tables-25-June.pdf


Thanks... I tried looking for the same, a couple of weeks back, but failed to find any such document... Sadly, where I am, none of these are available.. Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yogi_bear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/07/2020 at 1:33pm
wasn't there a lysol disinfectant made specifically for furniture? would that work?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vince64 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/07/2020 at 1:47pm
Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

wasn't there a lysol disinfectant made specifically for furniture? would that work?
Steramine tablets. About 12.00 for a bottle of 150 tablets. 1 tablet treats one gallon of water. It was recently approved as a Covid disinfect
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Veet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/07/2020 at 2:15pm
Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

wasn't there a lysol disinfectant made specifically for furniture? would that work?

Yep... I recollect one for Wooden flooring... Not seen one for furniture.. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Veet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/07/2020 at 2:17pm
Originally posted by Vince64 Vince64 wrote:

Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

wasn't there a lysol disinfectant made specifically for furniture? would that work?
Steramine tablets. About 12.00 for a bottle of 150 tablets. 1 tablet treats one gallon of water. It was recently approved as a Covid disinfect

Available, but bloody expensive over here .. The equivalent of 76USD for a bottle of 150 Tablets
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Would a 70% pure Isopropyl (Surgical Spirit) or 80% Pure Ethanol based sanitizer work, without damaging it (In the short-term or long) .. ?  I ask, cause both these would be quick-drying and, if pure, they won't leave any residue.  

I know for a fact that both these would damage regular wood polish and/or varnish... I'm not sure about how it'd affect a table tennis table top, which is typically made, either of some type of particle-board(??), plywood (??), wood(??); and has a quote of  paint (??)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AcudaDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/10/2020 at 11:08am
Hello,

My wife followed the CDC's site for recommended amount of bleach.  CDC guidelines:
  • Prepare a bleach solution by mixing:
    • 5 tablespoons (1/3rd cup) bleach per gallon of room temperature water or
    • 4 teaspoons bleach per quart of room temperature water
  • Bleach solutions will be effective for disinfection up to 24 hours.
She mixes the bleach with water in a quart-sized container for disinfectant.  We then bought several rolls of Bounty paper towels, cut them in half, and placed them in plastic containers we bought on Amazon.  We then take a cup of the water mixed with the bleach and pour it over the paper towels, and we keep the containers out by the tables for players to wipe down their side of the table when they are finished.  We also drilled small holes in the tops of the containers so you can pull out the wipes.  This works very well and really helps to keep the costs down.  Since the amount of bleach is not very high per container the wipes have not damaged the table tops.  
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Originally posted by AcudaDave AcudaDave wrote:

Hello,

My wife followed the CDC's site for recommended amount of bleach.  CDC guidelines:
  • Prepare a bleach solution by mixing:
    • 5 tablespoons (1/3rd cup) bleach per gallon of room temperature water or
    • 4 teaspoons bleach per quart of room temperature water
  • Bleach solutions will be effective for disinfection up to 24 hours.
She mixes the bleach with water in a quart-sized container for disinfectant.  We then bought several rolls of Bounty paper towels, cut them in half, and placed them in plastic containers we bought on Amazon.  We then take a cup of the water mixed with the bleach and pour it over the paper towels, and we keep the containers out by the tables for players to wipe down their side of the table when they are finished.  We also drilled small holes in the tops of the containers so you can pull out the wipes.  This works very well and really helps to keep the costs down.  Since the amount of bleach is not very high per container the wipes have not damaged the table tops.  

Hi... Thanks for the detailed suggestion ... I shall strongly consider this option... 

Btw.. What bleaching did you use ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tuco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/11/2020 at 4:53pm
wouldn't bleach have an effect on the paint?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/11/2020 at 6:44pm
70% ethanol or isopropyl alcohol won't hurt your table.  I don't think the diluted bleach will either.

Edited by Baal - 08/11/2020 at 6:51pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/11/2020 at 10:18pm
I wonder if there's something they can add to the paint in the future that would be antimicrobial
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/12/2020 at 8:53am
Probably not..  A virus is different from a microbe (bacterium).  Bacteria are sometimes easier  to kill because they are alive in the first place.   They have cell membranes,  metabolism etc.  Viruses don't.   They are replicating particles consisting of a few proteins and a nucleic acid .   They can only replicate by hijacking the apparatus of a host cell.  In some environments it makes viruses easier to "kill" and in some it makes it harder.  Generally, on a surface like a table it's not that hard to kill a virus by wiping it with an  alcohol or bleach, which destroys the proteins it needs to infect cells. Some bacteria can actually survive that (well bleach  still kills them but you may need a higher concentration).  Viruses are harder to "kill" inside your body. They have fewer "targets" that you can aim drugs at.   I'm not a microbiologist but I do know that some bacteria are super hard to kill, especially the ones that form spores (like anthrax).  There are bacteria that actually live inside rocks and near deep ocean thermal vents at nearly boiling temperatures.  But  those super tough bacteria usually have to attach to a surface to grow.

All that to say that there are lots of things you can use on tables now to kill SARS-COV-2 that won't damage the paint.   Use a spray bottle, make sure you leave it on for 2-3 minutes before wiping it off.  Antimicrobial paints work by preventing bacteria from adhering to the surface and forming so-called biofilm.  Won't help for a virus.


Edited by Baal - 08/12/2020 at 8:58am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/12/2020 at 9:00am
Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

wasn't there a lysol disinfectant made specifically for furniture? would that work?

Yes.  In the US there are also products from Formula 405 and Chlorox that are approved for this. 

I still would suggest that a mask is probably more imoortant.


Edited by Baal - 08/12/2020 at 9:03am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AcudaDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/12/2020 at 10:24am
We use Clorox bleach.  Another thing we do to disinfect all the practice balls the coaches use is a UV light.  My wife bought a UV light for under $50 and rigged it up to a small container box then added a 5-minute timer to expose the balls for 5 minutes.  We use it several times a night.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Egghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/12/2020 at 11:38am
Originally posted by AcudaDave AcudaDave wrote:

We use Clorox bleach.  Another thing we do to disinfect all the practice balls the coaches use is a UV light.  My wife bought a UV light for under $50 and rigged it up to a small container box then added a 5-minute timer to expose the balls for 5 minutes.  We use it several times a night.
Just wonder will it make the balls fragile?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfolsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/12/2020 at 11:50am
I have some yellow balls that are partially exposed to the sun through a window in my garage. They turned white over time
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AcudaDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/12/2020 at 3:09pm
The UV light hasn't bothered the balls at all.  We've been doing it for about 8 weeks now and haven't noticed any impact to the balls.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/12/2020 at 6:26pm
just put tanning lamps up everywhere and you can sell two for one tanning and ping pong and be covid free to boot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Veet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/13/2020 at 2:06am
Hi,

We've decided to use Chlorox wipes.. A fellow club-mate has a connection through, which we'll be getting a pretty sweet deal on bulk purchase. 

We're less worries about the balls.. We'll just chuck them in tub of a disinfectant solution, we've been getting from OfficeDepot or similar 
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