Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET Homepage
  Help Desk Help Desk  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - The End of the Harimoto Dream
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

The End of the Harimoto Dream

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 234
Author
Baal View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator


Joined: 01/21/2010
Location: unknown
Status: Offline
Points: 14304
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2022 at 6:39pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by LongLips LongLips wrote:

I can't read japanese. Could you say what the 3 weaknesses are Mizutani identified?
Google Chrome can translate.

One the whole, he said that Harimoto was living in a comfortable training environment with family and parents etc.  He said Harimoto didn't play under enough adverse conditions and in enough competitive situations to learn how to adapt to opponents under pressure.  Also, the competitive situation in the T-League wasn't good enough.  I might have missed something here or there but that is the bulk of it - basically Mizutani was encouraging the up and coming Japanese to leave the country and play under more competitive and uncomfortable situations in foreign countries.  Too often if things didn't go well for Harimoto, Harimoto focused too often on what was wrong with himself, rather than figuring out what to do to make his opponent more uncomfortable, and that was in Mizutani's view largely a result of not having dealt with competitive pressure in uncomfortable circumstances on a regular basis.

Interesting.  This is an issue at all levels, even at the levels a lot of us are at here at MyTT.  If I try to look back objectively, Mizutani's description of Harimoto's problem is how I would have described my own fundamental weakness and why it persisted (obviously, at a vastly lower level of play).  The same psychology and the same constantly comfortable training environment.  If you really want to get better you have to seek out environments and players you hate to play.
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
DonnOlsen View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/15/2008
Location: Maryland, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1662
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2022 at 10:00pm
Hi,

One intriguing question is who will come with him?  Is it Dad? Is it Mom?  Is it neither?  

Also, who will be his primary developmental coach?

Also, his parents brought over Chinese training partners to Japan for him.  Will these training partners now accompany him to Europe?  A many-year prevalent thought is that the Asian systems have superior training environments than are typically found in Europe.  Without passing judgment on the accuracy of the prior statement, we have proof of the opinion that Japan as Japan was insufficient for his development, thus the Chinese training partners.  From this I'm betting on the European augmentation of the Chinese training partners for him.

Thanks.
Muhammad Ali reacted to light in 150 milliseconds, near the theoretical limit of human visual reaction time.
Back to Top
BeaverMD View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/09/2007
Location: Maryland, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1862
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeaverMD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/01/2022 at 6:39pm
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:



This honestly didn't come as a surprise, as Mizutani has spoken on Harimoto's 3 weaknesses and that the Japanese players are "wasting time" in the T.League.

https://zhuanlan.zhihu.com/p/150450628
https://zhuanlan.zhihu.com/p/152178940

The Miz spewing out some TRUTH!

I understand the first two disadvantages: environment is too good, and focus on self (not adjusting to opponent).  But what is the third one "he will be out of order as soon as he arrives at the competition" where he also talks about "negative shell".  Of course, I'm using Google Translate.

Also, did Miz really say for the Japanese players it was a "waste of time" to play in the T2? The folks at T2 can't be pleased with those comments.  Again, maybe something is lost in translation.
Back to Top
zeio View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 03/25/2010
Status: Offline
Points: 7655
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/02/2022 at 1:50am
The third one is about how he plays below par in the majors, that he plays safe. This negative tendency is common for everyone, the bigger the tournament, but he has to break that "negative shell". He has a great potential but he has yet to break that shell.

He said local players playing in the T.League is a waste of time.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
Back to Top
zeio View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 03/25/2010
Status: Offline
Points: 7655
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/11/2022 at 6:15am
https://zh.cn.nikkei.com/politicsaeconomy/politicsasociety/48452-2022-05-05-03-38-48.html
Quote       記者:是什麼讓你做出這£的決定?

      張本智和:東京奧運會和後來的世界乒乓球錦標賽相繼輸給了(在單打早期的比賽中排名靠後的)歐洲選手。當我開始考慮是去參加國外聯賽還是去長期訓練的時候,收到了邀請。(日本乒乓球)T聯賽從下個賽£開始計入巴黎奧運會的(有關單打選拔的)積分。我想針對奧運會進行強化,參加(能與T聯賽兼顧的)歐洲冠軍聯賽是最好的選擇。

      記者:你覺得歐洲選手的特點是什麼?哪些地方£對付?

      張本智和:歐洲選手比亞洲選手更多採用粗曠的打法,但爆發力強。銜接少,即使很£打的球也要去打。感覺他們在比賽中沉著冷靜,即使在落後的狀況下也會全力以赴。我在大舞臺上稍微緊張變得慎重時,總會給對手可乘之機,現在仍感覺有點不好對付。

     (由於新冠疫情,國際比賽比以前少了,)在間隔2~3個月的對戰中,也出現過不能£常發揮的情況。希望通過與高手多比賽,多少掌握大賽的思維方式。我覺得能跟隊友奧恰洛夫和圖爾斯·莫雷高德進行訓練也有好處。
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
Back to Top
ZApenholder View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 03/04/2012
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 4469
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZApenholder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/11/2022 at 11:18am
Originally posted by zhuangcorp7 zhuangcorp7 wrote:

Actually why doesn't Harimoto play in the China Super League? He should find the best competition over there. 


Harimoto is familiar with the Chinese system and styles, but not with European culture and styles.
It is common for many Asians (not so much Chinese), to spend some time in Europe and to further learn the game of table tennis in a "European manner".

It isn't just a playing style, but rather the entire system, and how they have a lot more fun than the East.
Then playing style wise, you also playing against, bigger and more stronger players that play away from the table. It is quite a cultural shock and require time to adapt and I think this will allow Harimoto to mature more.

Well, at least that is why Lin is there.


Edited by ZApenholder - 05/12/2022 at 2:07am
Back to Top
stiltt View Drop Down
Assistant Admin
Assistant Admin
Avatar

Joined: 07/15/2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Status: Offline
Points: 209
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/11/2022 at 9:32pm
Welcome back ZApenholder, we missed you! (I used to be fatt)
Back to Top
ZApenholder View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 03/04/2012
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 4469
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZApenholder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/12/2022 at 2:08am
Originally posted by stiltt stiltt wrote:

Welcome back ZApenholder, we missed you! (I used to be fatt)


Thank you stiltt/fatt.
why the name change, when did you change haha.
Yeah, been quite a few years.....
Back to Top
zeio View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 03/25/2010
Status: Offline
Points: 7655
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/11/2022 at 5:17pm
The (Miwa) Harimoto Dream lives on.

Latest in-depth 2-part interview with Miwa's brother on the pandemic, the Champion's League, his respect for LYJ and WCQ, the rise of Togami and Yokotani, his losses to Jorgic, Dyjas and Jha, the balance between his FH and BH(and the constant struggle with his dad over that), and more. Even Miwa's brother thought last year Miwa had to wait for Los Angeles 2028 but now thinks she has a legit shot at Paris 2024 after seeing she took a game from Ito.

張本智和インタビュー(前編)
https://www.butterfly.co.jp/takurepo/interview/detail/020952.html
張本智和インタビュー(後編)
https://www.butterfly.co.jp/takurepo/interview/detail/020956.html

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=91465&PID=1124874&title=wtt-singapore-smash-2022-03-0703-20#1124874
https://mao.5ch.net/test/read.cgi/pingpong/1647220093/813-
Quote 870名無しQ(・∀・)ノ゜サァン!!2022/03/19(土) 22:47:00.16ID:AJBrbi0E
パリはマジでこれもあるかもな

男子
宇田、戸上、�£体張本兄

女子
早田、木原、�£体張本妹

ミックス
戸上、早田


Edited by zeio - 06/11/2022 at 5:22pm
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
Back to Top
DonnOlsen View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/15/2008
Location: Maryland, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1662
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2022 at 2:55pm
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

The (Miwa) Harimoto Dream lives on.

Latest in-depth 2-part interview with Miwa's brother on the pandemic, the Champion's League, his respect for LYJ and WCQ, the rise of Togami and Yokotani, his losses to Jorgic, Dyjas and Jha, the balance between his FH and BH(and the constant struggle with his dad over that), and more. Even Miwa's brother thought last year Miwa had to wait for Los Angeles 2028 but now thinks she has a legit shot at Paris 2024 after seeing she took a game from Ito.

張本智和インタビュー(前編)
https://www.butterfly.co.jp/takurepo/interview/detail/020952.html
張本智和インタビュー(後編)
https://www.butterfly.co.jp/takurepo/interview/detail/020956.html

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=91465&PID=1124874&title=wtt-singapore-smash-2022-03-0703-20#1124874
https://mao.5ch.net/test/read.cgi/pingpong/1647220093/813-
Quote 870名無しQ(・∀・)ノ゜サァン!!2022/03/19(土) 22:47:00.16ID:AJBrbi0E
パリはマジでこれもあるかもな

男子
宇田、戸上、�£体張本兄

女子
早田、木原、�£体張本妹

ミックス
戸上、早田

Thank you so much!
Muhammad Ali reacted to light in 150 milliseconds, near the theoretical limit of human visual reaction time.
Back to Top
Colin Ksh View Drop Down
Beginner
Beginner
Avatar

Joined: 06/13/2022
Location: Myanmar
Status: Offline
Points: 19
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Colin Ksh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/13/2022 at 11:30am
Originally posted by balldance balldance wrote:

It’s unbelievable that Harimoto doesn’t feel good with his grip and can’t find a good racket after trying dozens of them. Nope, the problem is his technique and footwork, or more precise, his personal coach(es). They don’t find the right path to develop him. He might be stuck at this level until he has a new coach with new ideas. Meanwhile, other players are improving all the time.


Sorry to interrupt guys. I've been reading this whole thread from the very beginning but I don't understand the above statement. (during Tokyo Olympics )
1. why don't harimoto feel good with his grip &
2. why can't he find a good racket?
He's been using his hm innerforce alc since 2018 and got along pretty well with it isn't.
Back to Top
zeio View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 03/25/2010
Status: Offline
Points: 7655
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/13/2022 at 12:13pm
As he explained in the 9/2021 and 6/2022 interviews, it was the struggle with his dad over the balance between his FH and BH, which led to anxiety from the pressure to perform at the Olympics.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
Back to Top
Colin Ksh View Drop Down
Beginner
Beginner
Avatar

Joined: 06/13/2022
Location: Myanmar
Status: Offline
Points: 19
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Colin Ksh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/13/2022 at 8:47pm
I see.That means it doesn't have to do anything with his current equipment isn't. Harimoto is growing physically like alot. Gets slower compare to the previous years. I still remember in 2019 world your grand finals against xu xin though hm lost, he plays very aggressive and insane. But i believe once his puberty stops and he's stable, he will be able to adjust his playing style again and adapt it well.
Back to Top
idk View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 07/11/2011
Location: Bay Area
Status: Offline
Points: 739
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote idk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/13/2022 at 9:19pm
Originally posted by Colin Ksh Colin Ksh wrote:

I see.That means it doesn't have to do anything with his current equipment isn't. Harimoto is growing physically like alot. Gets slower compare to the previous years. I still remember in 2019 world your grand finals against xu xin though hm lost, he plays very aggressive and insane. But i believe once his puberty stops and he's stable, he will be able to adjust his playing style again and adapt it well.

He is 19 now, and his physique doesn't look vastly different than it did in 2020, at which point he seemed to be tailing off his rapid growth spurt.

I believe there is much more at play than simply the "body is changing" explanation - internal disagreements within his camp as Zeio reported seems like a much bigger factor.
Back to Top
Colin Ksh View Drop Down
Beginner
Beginner
Avatar

Joined: 06/13/2022
Location: Myanmar
Status: Offline
Points: 19
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Colin Ksh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/13/2022 at 9:39pm
I notice his grip when he serve is quite strange too i sometimes think if that could lead to less spin potential but not really just my guessing.
Back to Top
balldance View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 01/28/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 229
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote balldance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/15/2022 at 2:49pm
Originally posted by Colin Ksh Colin Ksh wrote:

Originally posted by balldance balldance wrote:

It’s unbelievable that Harimoto doesn’t feel good with his grip and can’t find a good racket after trying dozens of them. Nope, the problem is his technique and footwork, or more precise, his personal coach(es). They don’t find the right path to develop him. He might be stuck at this level until he has a new coach with new ideas. Meanwhile, other players are improving all the time.


Sorry to interrupt guys. I've been reading this whole thread from the very beginning but I don't understand the above statement. (during Tokyo Olympics )
1. why don't harimoto feel good with his grip &
2. why can't he find a good racket?
He's been using his hm innerforce alc since 2018 and got along pretty well with it isn't.

In an interview, Harimoto used those reasons to explain his bad form at Tokyo Olympics. I didn’t agree with his explanation. I think he’s no difference from us amateur players, when we have bad form and low confidence, we may find problems with our grip, our equipments, 0.01 difference in rubber hardness, etc. but the real problem is likely our strategy or practice. 

With Harimoto, his development has stalled for a long time while the opponents have adapted to his style and found ways to beat him. He’s no better than himself 2-3 years ago, if not worse, and that’s why he was so low in confidence.
Back to Top
LongLips View Drop Down
Beginner
Beginner


Joined: 09/25/2021
Location: Austria
Status: Offline
Points: 16
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LongLips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/16/2022 at 6:16am
It will be interesting to see how he fares today against Lin Shidong. Not an easy first round draw
Back to Top
DonnOlsen View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/15/2008
Location: Maryland, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1662
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/16/2022 at 9:53am
Originally posted by LongLips LongLips wrote:

It will be interesting to see how he fares today against Lin Shidong. Not an easy first round draw

The answer is Miwa's brother: 3 - 2.
Muhammad Ali reacted to light in 150 milliseconds, near the theoretical limit of human visual reaction time.
Back to Top
mykonos96 View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 07/19/2018
Location: Southam
Status: Offline
Points: 1673
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/16/2022 at 3:23pm
Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

Originally posted by LongLips LongLips wrote:

It will be interesting to see how he fares today against Lin Shidong. Not an easy first round draw

The answer is Miwa's brother: 3 - 2.

Lin is 17
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 234
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.078 seconds.

Become a Fan on Facebook Follow us on Twitter Web Wiz News
Forum Home | Go to the Forums | Forum Help | Disclaimer

MyTableTennis.NET is the trading name of Alex Table Tennis Ltd.

Copyright ©2003-2020 Alex Table Tennis Ltd. All rights reserved.