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The power of criss-cross blocking.

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LUCKYLOOP View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/16/2013 at 12:01am
Originally posted by tt4me tt4me wrote:

Originally posted by LUCKYLOOP LUCKYLOOP wrote:

The one thing that all PB's have in common. They play a specific basic simple strategy tailored to their limited skills and do not vary from it much, very methodical.

You are implying that all punch blockers have limited skills and are stuck at a particular level.
People, even old dogs, can learn new tricks.
I am sure the punch blocker in the video will evolve and get better IF he is forced to by playing better opponents than those in the video.  He is doing well for playing only 3 years.
Quote
Most of the opponents they play do not adapt a rigid strategy against the PB and usually take some losses against them before they beat them.

So if other players can adapt and get better then why can't a punch blocker adapt and get better?
 
I stand corrected.
 
What I actually meant was that the Push Blocker plays using mostly a limited number of skill techniques with their simple strategy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/16/2013 at 3:41pm



some update on Alex Saidychakov's anti rubber.
He has now RITC 804 in red, affixed on the playing side.
He is a real "death machine". I like seeing him making a plain mockery of the loopers.
Qurious enough, he's developed the style alone, by some blessed intuition.
He played with a bare wood on one side till quite recently.
   http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=18889057642


Edited by igorponger - 07/16/2013 at 3:47pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tt4me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/16/2013 at 4:05pm
The player in blue hit WAY too many balls back short in the middle of the table.  He didn't even have a plan.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Imago Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/16/2013 at 4:06pm
Slava bogu, Vlassenko is not a looper.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/16/2013 at 7:32pm
From the latest video, I can see what he is doing better.
 
Some of those blocks, technically, are loops off the bounce, which makes him even more effective. He improves his regular blocking a little more and he is going to elevate his game to the next level !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tt4me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/16/2013 at 7:40pm
Originally posted by LUCKYLOOP LUCKYLOOP wrote:

From the latest video, I can see what he is doing better.
This must be from an earlier match since the punch blocker doesn't have rubber on the back of his paddle.
 
Quote
Some of those blocks, technically, are loops off the bounce, which makes him even more effective. He improves his regular blocking a little more and he is going to elevate his game to the next level !
How does one loop with 804 anti rubber?   A loop should have significant top spin.  Given that the punch blocker is just punching through the ball I bet there is little spin on the ball.

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/16/2013 at 7:49pm
Quote LUCKYLOOP
Some of those blocks, technically, are loops off the bounce, which makes him even more effective. He improves his regular blocking a little more and he is going to elevate his game to the next level !

tt4me

How does one loop with 804 anti rubber?   A loop should have significant top spin.  Given that the punch blocker is just punching through the ball I bet there is little spin on the ball. 
Well, to me, it sure looks like he is adding to or at a minimum redirecting the original TS on the ball, on some shots. His regular blocks have different spin going back.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chu_bun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/16/2013 at 7:54pm
Originally posted by LUCKYLOOP LUCKYLOOP wrote:

 
I stand corrected.
 
What I actually meant was that the Push Blocker plays using mostly a limited number of skill techniques with their simple strategy.


This reminds me of a comment I heard from a guy who lost a tennis match to me.  "Y'all serve-volleyers are so predictable.  You just serve and volley.  You're lucky that I had problem returning your serves ...".  I told him a baseliner servers and hits from the baseline.  A S-V serves and hits from the net.   I don't see how your game is more or less predictable compared to mine.

PB blocks, chopper chops, looper loops etc ... They all are equally "simple" as the other. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/16/2013 at 11:30pm
Originally posted by chu_bun chu_bun wrote:

Originally posted by LUCKYLOOP LUCKYLOOP wrote:

 I stand corrected.
 What I actually meant was that the Push Blocker plays using mostly a limited number of skill techniques with their simple strategy.
This reminds me of a comment I heard from a guy who lost a tennis match to me.  "Y'all serve-volleyers are so predictable.  You just serve and volley.  You're lucky that I had problem returning your serves ...".  I told him a baseliner servers and hits from the baseline.  A S-V serves and hits from the net.   I don't see how your game is more or less predictable compared to mine.

PB blocks, chopper chops, looper loops etc ... They all are equally "simple" as the other. 
 
PB only uses a 4H side.
 
He doesn't push, hit, loop, chop, block, and drive like most shake hand players who do this from their BH and 4H. Their footwork is more complicated too. These players also serve a variety of spins.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/17/2013 at 4:56pm
Quote LUCKYLOOP
Some of those blocks, technically, are loops off the bounce, which makes him even more effective. He improves his regular blocking a little more and he is going to elevate his game to the next level !

tt4me

How does one loop with 804 anti rubber?   A loop should have significant top spin.  Given that the punch blocker is just punching through the ball I bet there is little spin on the ball. 
Originally posted by LUCKYLOOP LUCKYLOOP wrote:

Well, to me, it sure looks like he is adding to or at a minimum redirecting the original TS on the ball, on some shots. His regular blocks have different spin going back.
 
Additional Info: Giant Dragon Soft Anti Special is rated 4.5 for spin and says it "allows for offensive counter attack" !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tt4me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/17/2013 at 5:46pm
Originally posted by LUCKYLOOP LUCKYLOOP wrote:


Additional Info: Giant Dragon Soft Anti Special is rated 4.5 for spin and says it "allows for offensive counter attack" !
So?  You can counter attack with just about anything.  It is a function of the player not the rubber or blade.
"allows for offensive counter attack" are marketing weasel words.  That doesn't mean it is good for attacking and certainly not looping.  It just means you can counter attack high balls.  It doesn't mean you can counter attack ball like you can with T05 or even Flextra.  So what?

The punch blocker plays with 729-804 not Giant Dragon Soft Anti Special.
One can punch block with either but looping is a stretch.  

Does anybody really believe the marketing weasel words that describe rubbers?  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/17/2013 at 6:09pm
Originally posted by tt4me tt4me wrote:

Originally posted by LUCKYLOOP LUCKYLOOP wrote:


Additional Info: Giant Dragon Soft Anti Special is rated 4.5 for spin and says it "allows for offensive counter attack" !
So?  You can counter attack with just about anything.  It is a function of the player not the rubber or blade.
"allows for offensive counter attack" are marketing weasel words.  That doesn't mean it is good for attacking and certainly not looping.  It just means you can counter attack high balls.  It doesn't mean you can counter attack ball like you can with T05 or even Flextra.  So what?
 
The punch blocker plays with 729-804 not Giant Dragon Soft Anti Special.
One can punch block with either but looping is a stretch.  
 
Does anybody really believe the marketing weasel words that describe rubbers?  
 
729-804 "is not a super slick anti" per Zero Pong retailer.
 
So PB is counter looping off the bounce sometimes. Maybe you need to have a more experienced player friend of yours watch the latest video and explain it to you !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tt4me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/17/2013 at 7:52pm
Originally posted by LUCKYLOOP LUCKYLOOP wrote:


729-804 "is not a super slick anti" per Zero Pong retailer.
So you are reading the marketing hype again. In this case the marketing hype is true.    It is no substitute for playing with it.  I haven't played with 729-804 but I have played against a player that used it on the front side using a Seemiller grip.   

 
Quote
So PB is counter looping off the bounce sometimes.
Where?  I see no loops by the punch blocker.   A little top spin here and there is not a loop.  A loop should jump out out at the opponent after the bounce and tend to bounce high off the opponents paddle unless he closes it a lot.

Quote
 Maybe you need to have a more experienced player friend of yours watch the latest video and explain it to you !
I have played with four different anti rubbers. 
I want you to explain it to me and show me how you loop with anti rubber.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skip3119 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/17/2013 at 8:01pm
tt4me said: "I want you to explain it to me and show me how you loop with anti rubber."
================================
 
Agree with tt4me that anti rubber can not do loop.


Edited by skip3119 - 07/17/2013 at 8:02pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smackman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/17/2013 at 9:19pm
Originally posted by skip3119 skip3119 wrote:

tt4me said: "I want you to explain it to me and show me how you loop with anti rubber."
================================
 
Agree with tt4me that anti rubber can not do loop.
It's great the two of you worked that out lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smackman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/17/2013 at 9:24pm
Well , Ill tell you a story I was visiting a small TT club in small town NZ around 20 members last night

 and then there he was , a replica of this Russian player using a one side wooded bat and the other side dead, old non legal pimples, generic  premade, very old, faded to pink bat,
 but his tactics and strokes were the same, hardcase
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/17/2013 at 11:53pm
Anti rubber can loop...against backspin.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tt4me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/18/2013 at 12:13am
Originally posted by cole_ely cole_ely wrote:

Anti rubber can loop...against backspin.
True,  and one can loop with hard bats and LP too in the same way, but these cases rely on the back spin being used as your top spin.  These rubbers can't create their own loops like normal inverted rubbers.  There wasn't anybody chopping in the videos to provide back spin for the punch blocker to work with.  The punch blocker simply hit and punch blocked.

It would be interesting to see the punch blocker play a chopper.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/18/2013 at 12:24am
Latest video examples of loop quick off the bounce:
 
At :17  He is looping off TS block.
 
At :20  He is looping off BS/SS serve.
 
At 1:10  He looping off TS shot.
 
There lies the problem with his opponents. They don't understand what he is doing !


Edited by LUCKYLOOP - 07/21/2013 at 4:57am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/25/2013 at 10:17pm
Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:

  Most peculiar and yet effectual playing style to beat the "skilled" youngsters.
Playing criss-cross blocking off the bounce over the table, =cici style, will make the "skilled" guys feel some panic and disturb their game outright.
Most young masters do have too little brain power to answer the "cc" style properly.
I'm a steady upholder and hot gospeller of the style.
Be you an olderman or a sapling, you can happily adopt this style to your better advantage.    

Good luck.
 
It would be interesting to see him travel to Irkutsk Siberia and play at the weekly Saturday tournament vs all those different styles including those aggressive LP BH females and that Pen holder who chops and loops on his RPB. They have a separate thread topic with videos on here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChichoFicho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/26/2013 at 4:23pm
A master does not need two rubbers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/26/2013 at 11:50pm
Originally posted by tt4me tt4me wrote:

Originally posted by cole_ely cole_ely wrote:

Anti rubber can loop...against backspin.
True,  and one can loop with hard bats and LP too in the same way, but these cases rely on the back spin being used as your top spin.  These rubbers can't create their own loops like normal inverted rubbers.  There wasn't anybody chopping in the videos to provide back spin for the punch blocker to work with.  The punch blocker simply hit and punch blocked.

It would be interesting to see the punch blocker play a chopper.



 
Check out any of the Bogeyhunter vs Pushblocker vids...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tt4me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/27/2013 at 3:14am
Originally posted by BH-Man BH-Man wrote:

[
Check out any of the Bogeyhunter vs Pushblocker vids...
I have seen the Bogeyhunter vs PushBlocker videob but I was specifically referring to the punch blocker in the video.  It is easy for PushBlocker to get back chopped balls with LP 0X.  I am not so sure about the punch blocker in the video because his anti isn't that frictionless.  If you look at his 'swing' his elbow seems to flow his hand more like a boxer.  The fore arm doesn't really swing.  He is truly a punch blocker.  I don't think the punch blocker would have an easy time against a chopper of the same skill level.

@Luckyloop, I don't consider those shot you mentioned to be loops. The punch blocker may of got some top spin on them but he was still mostly hitting line of sight or relying on gravity.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/27/2013 at 3:52am
Originally posted by tt4me tt4me wrote:

Originally posted by BH-Man BH-Man wrote:

[
Check out any of the Bogeyhunter vs Pushblocker vids...
I have seen the Bogeyhunter vs PushBlocker videob but I was specifically referring to the punch blocker in the video.  It is easy for PushBlocker to get back chopped balls with LP 0X.  I am not so sure about the punch blocker in the video because his anti isn't that frictionless.  If you look at his 'swing' his elbow seems to flow his hand more like a boxer.  The fore arm doesn't really swing.  He is truly a punch blocker.  I don't think the punch blocker would have an easy time against a chopper of the same skill level.
@Luckyloop, I don't consider those shot you mentioned to be loops. The punch blocker may of got some top spin on them but he was still mostly hitting line of sight or relying on gravity.
 
The punch blocker uses a modified Seemiller type grip. Against BS pushes or chops, he will just bump the ball or reloop quick off the bounce doing his location thing. It will slow his game down but he probably will be able to get better angles on the first slower ball and he will force the opponent to be very fundamentally sound pushing and chopping on both sides. The opponent probably won't be able to out push him all over the table from side to side and/or won't have the patience or ego to play that style for a whole match.
 
I think Bogey Hunter (with his pick hitting) could beat the punch blocker until I see a video of him beating a comparable style player.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChichoFicho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/31/2013 at 7:06am
Originally posted by skip3119 skip3119 wrote:

You showed a player who beat Huang Jian Jiang (黄建疆) and said "Just push until you get a loose ball, then loop-kill it..........).
 
Well Huang Jian Jiang was not a very good LP Pushblocker, even though he was teaching on how to play LP in China.  Video below is the proof.
======================================================================
 
The following very old post was posted by:  ZingyDNA
 
Of course they're no where close to pro level. Anyway, skip wanted me to post the vid of Huang Jian Jiang (the older guy in his vid) vs. Li Zhi Ming, so here's the link:

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMjQ0ODg4NTA0.html

I thought the vid was undated but it's actually dated in 2011, when Li's rating dropped below 2300 most of the time. So I'd say Huang would be in the 2200s, tops.
===================================================================




 Huang is well over 2400.  He has many wins over players that would be close to 2600. Zhi Ming Li plays apparently extremely well against long pips and in that particular game Huang played well below his usual level.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote takethat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/31/2013 at 1:55pm
That tendency to return the ball to the  opposing player's racket is very common. I think it comes from that extra long BH/BH and F/H to F/H practise. I have found this out whenever I block against good  loopers Rest assured, they will return the ball to me. My biggest problem only comes when some players master the slow high spinny loop four to six inches from the table's edge..
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