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difference: P700 vs BT777

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote beeray1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: difference: P700 vs BT777
    Posted: 06/05/2009 at 6:12pm
what's the difference between these two blades other than the BT777 being 'varnished'? Just in terms of speed, feel, etc etc...
 
thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote beeray1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/05/2009 at 6:16pm
the only information on the search was that the P700 was a bit stiffer and harder, but that was only one poster, so can anyone else back that up?
 
thanks again, sorry to double post.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote joris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/05/2009 at 8:11pm
They don't have any difference if both blades have same weight.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote beeray1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/06/2009 at 12:33am
then why do they make two different blades? lol.. ripoff artists!
 
I guess the cool blueish purple handle is a difference...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote runich Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/06/2009 at 2:40am
P700`s outer ply is limba, while BT777`s is koto. P700 is more a hitter`s blade and BT777 is better for a looper. These 2 blades are good quality and really worth the money. Both are 7-ply.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blip Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/06/2009 at 10:34am
runich has it backwards.
Galaxya Carbon (the OG Harimoto blade(Not that it matters))
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Please post my feedback here:
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71402&PN=1#874345
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote beeray1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/06/2009 at 2:33pm
about the wood, or about the hitter vs looper thing? I have heard 4 other statements of p700 being less flexible, and harder which means better for hitting, while the BT777 is easier to loop with.
 
Hell, I could get both of them for less than I could pay for 1 more HK. lol.
 
The P700 is just a sexy looking blade, btw. haha. simple, sleek, elegant. :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote beeray1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/06/2009 at 2:36pm
nvm, youre backwards about the wood, I was too lazy to answer the question myself. Limba on the BT777, and Koto on the P700. That makes sense
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote beeray1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/09/2009 at 1:14am
bumpety bump.
 
Is the BT777 too flexible for pips on the BH? I want to go for the P700, but I feel like the BT777 would be a nice transition from the HK to the P700 if the P700 is really that much harder. I can afford to get both just because they are around 50 bucks a peice. Especially if I can sell my Extra and my cheap penhold. That should cover the first blade already!
 
I'm gonna use BW2 with TSP Spectol special 2.0 version. (Thanks Alex Li!!!!) lol.
 
Im saving that for the new blade when I get it.
 
But any more info is definitely wanted and welcome regarding the differences of these two blades. If they are not really that different at all, then I don't have to waste money buying a BT777 when I only want it to ease the transition.
 
thanks guys.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote beeray1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/09/2009 at 1:20am
Where can I reliably get a P700? Paddle Palace sells the BT777 but not the P700.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rokphish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/09/2009 at 2:21am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote beeray1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/09/2009 at 3:09am
thanks rokphish.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote doraemon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/09/2009 at 5:39am
OK, since no one really answer Beeray regarding P700 vs. BT777, I will try to answer the best that I can.

First, it is P500 that has koto as outerply vs. BT555 that has limba as outerply.  Both P700 = BT777 = have limba as outerply !!!!  I hold both blades in my hand and the grains of BT777 = grains of P700 (outerply), and they are completely different compared to Koto on my Persson Powerplay.  Thickness is about the same, although I read somewhere that BT777 is a bit thinner than P700.

Regarding weight, P700 in general is heavier (>90 gram) although I once weighed P700 at 88 and 89 grams.  BT777 is around 82 - 87 grams (from samples that I weighed in the TT store).

Now, I was torn between choosing P700 vs. BT777, and after discussing some minor issues with a Malaysian guy (owner of Avalox?), he told me that he usually advised people to try P700 to taste the original characteristics of Avalox 7-ply (What Avalox is all about) but BT777 is designed to cope with modern TT with less weight yet more trampoline effect (springy effect), although keep in mind that both are stiffer blades compared to 5-ply.  Now, don't get me wrong, P700 can do everything well, including looping, but he told me that if I was more of a looper, I could just directly choose BT777.  So I did and I did  not regret it.  BT777 is like a stiffer BT555 (I owned this one as well) but still play like 5-ply in term of looping (dwell time is less but sufficient and speed is much more).  Mine is about 82 - 83 gram though, and it will certainly be different if I choose the 86 gr or 87 gram.  However, at OOAK I read that more people chose P700 and they still consider it as looping blade as well.  So, I guess it is just how you like the appearance of either one, as the performance is about the same, I guess.

Now, what makes P700 different than BT777 in construction?  This is my guess only by looking at the composition of both blades.  Remember that thickness of each ply is about the same, but composition is altered a bit.

Let say that P700 is as follows:
Limba - XXX -YYY - XXX - YYY - XXX - Limba

BT777 is as follows:
Limba - YYY - XXX - YYY - XXX - YYY - Limba

I say that the YYY as 2nd (and 6th) ply makes BT777 is a bit softer compared to  XXX as 2nd (and 6th) ply in P700, but overall I still consider them to be stiff (compared to my usual 5-ply allwood).

That's all I want to say.  Please note that I might be wrong but  I hope I don't mislead you.

EDIT:  I forgot to mention that the Malaysian guy told me that P700 is a bit stiffer compared to BT777.  However, when bouncing ball on both blades I had mixed feelings that sometimes I felt that P700 is a bit stiffer, sometimes the other way around.  But overall feeling is BT777 is a bit softer with a bit more speed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote culvch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/09/2009 at 5:49am
What doremon said is correct. For pip out players, they will usually use P700 as it's stiffer and for loopers it's BT777 which has slightly more feel. Both are fast blades
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote beeray1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/10/2009 at 1:46am
I appreciate it a lot! thank you.. that's what i was looking for.
 
I'm still kind of torn, but what will settle it is if the BT handles pips well even though the p700 does it better. If its something that doesnt handle them well, then I'll go p700. If it does handle them well, I'll go BT because of the increased flex, feel, and pre varnished surface.
 
thanks for your help again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonasnymose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/22/2020 at 7:11pm
Originally posted by doraemon doraemon wrote:

OK, since no one really answer Beeray regarding P700 vs. BT777, I will try to answer the best that I can.

First, it is P500 that has koto as outerply vs. BT555 that has limba as outerply.  Both P700 = BT777 = have limba as outerply !!!!  I hold both blades in my hand and the grains of BT777 = grains of P700 (outerply), and they are completely different compared to Koto on my Persson Powerplay.  Thickness is about the same, although I read somewhere that BT777 is a bit thinner than P700.

Regarding weight, P700 in general is heavier (>90 gram) although I once weighed P700 at 88 and 89 grams.  BT777 is around 82 - 87 grams (from samples that I weighed in the TT store).

Now, I was torn between choosing P700 vs. BT777, and after discussing some minor issues with a Malaysian guy (owner of Avalox?), he told me that he usually advised people to try P700 to taste the original characteristics of Avalox 7-ply (What Avalox is all about) but BT777 is designed to cope with modern TT with less weight yet more trampoline effect (springy effect), although keep in mind that both are stiffer blades compared to 5-ply.  Now, don't get me wrong, P700 can do everything well, including looping, but he told me that if I was more of a looper, I could just directly choose BT777.  So I did and I did  not regret it.  BT777 is like a stiffer BT555 (I owned this one as well) but still play like 5-ply in term of looping (dwell time is less but sufficient and speed is much more).  Mine is about 82 - 83 gram though, and it will certainly be different if I choose the 86 gr or 87 gram.  However, at OOAK I read that more people chose P700 and they still consider it as looping blade as well.  So, I guess it is just how you like the appearance of either one, as the performance is about the same, I guess.

Now, what makes P700 different than BT777 in construction?  This is my guess only by looking at the composition of both blades.  Remember that thickness of each ply is about the same, but composition is altered a bit.

Let say that P700 is as follows:
Limba - XXX -YYY - XXX - YYY - XXX - Limba

BT777 is as follows:
Limba - YYY - XXX - YYY - XXX - YYY - Limba

I say that the YYY as 2nd (and 6th) ply makes BT777 is a bit softer compared to  XXX as 2nd (and 6th) ply in P700, but overall I still consider them to be stiff (compared to my usual 5-ply allwood).

That's all I want to say.  Please note that I might be wrong but  I hope I don't mislead you.

EDIT:  I forgot to mention that the Malaysian guy told me that P700 is a bit stiffer compared to BT777.  However, when bouncing ball on both blades I had mixed feelings that sometimes I felt that P700 is a bit stiffer, sometimes the other way around.  But overall feeling is BT777 is a bit softer with a bit more speed.

Okay, I Know that this is old, but that information actually helps me a lot. I just wrote the guys from Avallo Avx for recommendations of an upgrade from BT555. And they did recommend me the P700 haha. 
They wrote:

"Dear sir,

You may consider trying with our P700 - 7 ply blade for "faster" effect. We have full confidence in P700 as many top players have had used it with proven results shown. 

In term of Speed and Tension, P700 is next to Blue Thunder 555. We would recommend our "speedier" products if you feel necessary: Our P900 (9 ply) and RUIBA (2 ply carbon). 

Thanks 
Avalox/ AvalloAVX"

So to me it sounds like they say that it's not really faster than BT555, but it can seem that way because of the stiffness? Though they do write that in terms of speed and tension they're next to eachother. 'tension' to me sounds like stiffness or flexibility. Hmm. Or Maybe By Next To Eachother they Mean One comes right after the other in terms of speed. 
But naturally I did ask about BT777 compared to P700 and Bt555. waiting for the answer though :)  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonasnymose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/23/2020 at 4:33am
Just got my answer 😂

"Dear sir,

We would strongly recommend that you try BT 777. 
We believe that you will not be disappointed. 

Thanks.
Avalox"

Well, that's the one I'm gonna try then 😆  


Edited by jonasnymose - 08/23/2020 at 4:34am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/24/2020 at 10:37pm
Originally posted by culvch culvch wrote:

What doremon said is correct. For pip out players, they will usually use P700 as it's stiffer and for loopers it's BT777 which has slightly more feel. Both are fast blades

Anybody with a recent p700? I got disaapointed when I bought at ttnpp and the p700 was dull..dont know if it was fake
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonasnymose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/25/2020 at 4:43am
Hmm, on the pictures they look authentic. Maybe you got one of the light ones? What did you use before? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorigor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/25/2020 at 6:25am
Ttnpp is not official distributor for Avalox. The list of official distributors are here:

http://www.avalloavx.com/distributors.htm

It is generally known that there are many fakes, especially in China. You can get genuine Avalox blade certainly only with official distributor.
But you may have been lucky.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonasnymose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/25/2020 at 7:45am
Yeah but tabletennis11 is not either. My first Avalox blades were from them and they were identical to the one from Spinfactory that I just got, size, color, shape, writing and finish. Only the weight differs, which is  normal. Spinfactory is listed as the only distrubutor in EU. Maybe some of the other stores in EU buy it through them as re-sellers? OR Avallo Avx website is not updated in years maybe? You Don't See p900  or Ruiba on there either, so who knows 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote puyol Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/25/2020 at 9:54am
Let me chip in here as I've a long stint with these.

First off, everything I type here refers to the Nittaku versions of Avalox blades. Some say the new (not Nittaku) versions are not as good as the oldies, I cannot say as I haven't tried the not-Nittaku ones. Anyway, I've tried 2-3 of each, here's my take.

Nittaku Avalox P700 is a large-head heavy blade with an exceptional feeling. It was consistently 6.7~6.8mm thick, always 151x159 size, between 94-97g yet you don't feel the weight as it's superbly balanced. Very comfortable thick handle, both ST and FL. I used it with H2N and it felt very stable yet fast WLQ style. Despite their girth, the N-A P700 had amazing feeling and control.

Nittaku Avalox P777 was thinner and smaller: ~6.3, with 149.5x158mm head. This one was much less consistent between cases, sometimes slightly thicker, sometimes even smaller head, feeling was also hugely different between particular units. In any case, much softer feeling blade than the P700, and very much slower. One P777 in particular felt so slow and dead as to render it a piecd of cheesecake more than a proper piece of equipment. Another one though, with an AN handle, feels amazing - fast enough with heaps of control.

Try a Nittaku version of P700 if you have a chance, P777 is a hit/miss or was for me at least.

Hope this helps, best~
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonasnymose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/25/2020 at 1:51pm
I guess that the weight and speed is connected maybe. Usually you can ask the seller to weigh and choose the one with the weight you prefer. But odd that there's so much incosistency. 

Hmm, but if you say that p700 is significantly faster than bt777 then it would be to big of jump from bt555 maybe? Though Avallo Avx did say that p700 and bt555 is next to each other though though the p700 Should have more percieved speed, due to the stiffness. But I don't know, seems confusing to me, if the bt777 Should be just a bit faster than bt555. Though according to what you say, it sounds like those 2 could be about the speed depending on their weight. Or what?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/25/2020 at 2:33pm
Originally posted by jonasnymose jonasnymose wrote:

Hmm, on the pictures they look authentic. Maybe you got one of the light ones? What did you use before? 


well I need to know if anybody is using a recent P700 and having the same feel and Bounce
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doraemon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/25/2020 at 10:43pm
Ha ha ha.... old thread actually, but I just realized that I contributed to it.

I have "matured" (well, it's been 11 years since I wrote those comments).   Now, I have more inputs as well, as I have owned BT 550, BT 555, P500, P700 and BT777.

Regarding P700 and BT777, they both have limba as outer-ply.   Now, regarding composition:  Clipper is limba - ayous - ayous - ayous- ayous - ayous - limba, and P700 is limba - meranti - ayous - ayous -ayous - meranti - limba.  Not sure about BT777.

Regarding characteristics of blades:

Clipper is thicker (6,9-7,0 mm), has softer feel and stiffer.   P700 is thinner and thus "felt" a bit flexy compared to that of Clipper.  But for sure, P700 has more trampoline effect.  BT777 has even more trampoline effect compared to that of P700.  I would say that P700 is still good for pips rubbers as well as inverted rubbers with 40+ ball and a better looping blade than Clipper (because it is a bit thinner).  BT777 is similar to P700 but with more pronounced trampoline effect, thus a bit better for looping.

I would say that if you want a more neutral blade, then choose P500 and P700.  I would not say that they are "fully linear" blade (what you give is what you get), but the trampoline effect is not that great compared to BT-versions.

If you like trampoline effect blade (non-linear blade, because of the slingshot effect) then you can choose BT550, BT555 and BT777.   They are good for looping, but to be precise in short game you need delicate techniques.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonasnymose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/26/2020 at 7:52am
So the p-series is slightly better for blocking, placements and precise play, but still great for looping? My forehand is not great, so I was considering if a flared handle p500 would be a bit better for me than a straight handle bt555. I mean if I have problems doing bigger chinese style swings when looping, I should probably try and develop a more euro style. Would probably be better for me. And then I would maybe not get as much out of the extra trampoline effect from the bt-series?

I currently use a bt555 and just started playing again after 6 years, so too fast a blade is not ideal. But too slow isn't either for me. My setup is fine right now. But was wondering if a slightly different one could support my style and improvement a bit better. 



Edited by jonasnymose - 08/26/2020 at 8:04am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doraemon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/27/2020 at 12:58am
If you are using BT555 now, then stick with it for awhile.   You just started playing again after 6 years, I think you need to worry about getting back in shape and technique.   BT555 is fine.   As a matter of fact, limba-spruce-ayous-spruce-limba blades are more common now:   Avalox BT555, Stiga Offensive Classic, Stiga Offensive Wood NCT, Stiga Infinity VPS, BTY Chuan Chih-Yuan, Donic Dicon, Donic Waldner Offensive Limited Edition, Robles Off-, Yinhe MC-2, etc.

While koto-spruce-ayous-spruce-koto blades are not that many (IIRC):  BTY Kong Ling Hui, Avalox P500, ITC Dynarc T5, etc.

Now, I don't say that P500 is better for this and BT555 is better for that, etc.   The reason is that it is a bit different to play with flexy 5-ply (huge trampoline effect) compared to play with stiff 5-ply wood blade.  In this case, P500 has less trampoline effect, but by no means it is a stiff blade, it is still considered flexy blade.

If you are used to play with flexy 5-ply wood blade, you can really whip the spin to greatest effect.  And in the process, you are learning to control short game and to block or to smash.   After you are used to the blade, changing to stiffer blade will give you more satisfaction in blocking / smashing but you "lose" some spin in looping.   Not that stiffer blade is worse for looping, but the technique is little different when you load up spin with flexy blade vs. stiff blade.

So I guess, you can stick to BT555 and play for a year or two, before consider switching.

To make you think that your blade is perfect for you:  Jan Ove Waldner used Banda Waldner and  Donic Dicon up to 1998.  Chuan Chih-Yuan also used Donic Dicon and BTY Chuan (before switching).  So if it's perfect for them (then) I think it is still OK for us mere mortals.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonasnymose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/27/2020 at 6:24am
hehe I'm not considering switching blade anytime soon ;) In at least a couple of years sounds about right. I'm just Looking around. There're so many choices, so I'm trying to narrowing it down to make it easier for me. I don't want to go too big a step up in speed and stiffness. 

I'm probably gonna change rubber before changing blade. I just find it Dificult to find one that is a step up in speed from cj8000 36-38 biotech, but with more spin. Should still have a medium high throw, having medium-hard sponge according to the eur/jap standards. Would ve nice to find one that is less sensitive to incoming spin, but still being able to create lots  of it. Tibhar Q5 and Joola Golden Tango PS looks interesting, but probably too fast for me. 
Years ago I tried a kids Q5 on a Stratus Powerwood. It wasn't as bouncy as I thought it would be. Good for close at the table. Great for offensive when I didn't shoot too long. Obviously Something I would have to adjust to. But it was so easy generating spin with. 
But that was back then :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote emihet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/05/2020 at 5:11pm
Originally posted by beeray1 beeray1 wrote:

what's the difference between these two blades other than the BT777 being 'varnished'? Just in terms of speed, feel, etc etc...
 
thanks.
Hi which rubbers are you planning  on using on the Avalox blades?
what is your playing style?
where do you play in Iowa?

Stiga Intensity, Viscaria, Clipper Wood
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jonasnymose View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonasnymose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/17/2020 at 9:12am
I just got a bt777 (85-86g) and to me it's almost the same as bt555, but a bit better for placements, smashes, openings and low serves. I expected to shoot in the net more, but it doesn't seem to have a lower throw than bt555. Looping feels very much the same. Speed is not much more.
So for me this actually a more balanced blade. Though I do prefer the lighter weight of my bt555,.
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