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RPB power and positioning. |
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Imago
Premier Member Joined: 07/19/2009 Location: Sofia Status: Offline Points: 5897 |
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Posted: 05/30/2012 at 3:32am |
For SH, it is really not necessary or at least not essential. For RPB, however, opening the body angle is a great accessory to success.
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decoi
Gold Member Joined: 09/25/2011 Location: Dublin, Ireland Status: Offline Points: 1375 |
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for power do what simon does.. forget about trying to generate spin. just have the needed angle and drive the ball the rest should be taken care of.. using a slow rubber and something soft'ish helps. i found it a lot easier to control the ball with 729 focus 3 Snipe than Haifu shark or stiga calibra lt.
and what loop40 said practicing against heavy loopers helps. which is when you can start learning how to punch through the spin( like ma lin would do with TPB) and use that knowledge to moove your opponent around the table first loop send it to his bh then next one deep to Fh or deep into Fh on the first one if he stepped around for the first loop also helps when the ball is center of your body and you must play from the body or else its going to be weak and chance of missing the ball Edited by decoi - 05/21/2012 at 6:21pm |
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Blade: DHS Hurricane Hao
FH: TG3 BS BH: Xiom Omega 4 Aisa Blade: Hurricane Hao 2 (656) Fh: Dhs Gold Arc 3 Bh: Stiga Tour H http://www.youtube.com/user/decoyla?feature=mhee |
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Loop40mm
Super Member Joined: 11/17/2011 Location: Los Angeles Status: Offline Points: 416 |
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If you are having problem with positioning, it is a matter of how you do your RPB strokes. I have noticed many traditional penholders try to hit RPB from the left side. In the beginning, try learning to lower your stance, with the paddle in front of you. I actually suggest closer to your eye level in the beginning to block the ball back. I typically do this in warmups. Though I am only blocking, because of the angle of the paddle, top spins are generated. I have a tendency to keep my left foot back when I use RPB to loop. My coach told me that was not necessary in every situation. Having the left foot back is a bigger loop situation. I imagine you are trying a bigger loop so that’s why you need to lean slightly to the right. In many situations, I needed to keep my left foot slightly in front to hit with RPB, including looping. I have seen my coach doing the RPB off the bounce of the ball with the ball in front on the right center(My coach is left handed). Leaning is not needed. For us right handers, that should be left center. Practising blocking against loopers has greatly improved my RPB stroke. There is no time to lean but to put the paddle in front to block the ball with RPB. I then realized I could use the wrist to control the spin and the direction of the ball. The technique is such that the elbow is tight to the body, the paddle is horizontal with wrist at close to 90 degrees and the arm is moved forward to hit the ball. Gradually I learned to bend the wrist backward, while maintaining paddle in horizontal position, before hitting. I think this technique can be carried over to the similar stroke my coach used to loop the ball off the bounce. My coach has the quick arm snap to create the spin. Obviously the angle of the wrist is no longer 90 degrees. The stance is higher to allow space to snap the arm forward. |
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Stiga Ebenholz NCT V
FH Tenergy 05 BH DHS Tin Arc 3 |
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cherC
Super Member Joined: 12/08/2011 Location: St. paul Mn Status: Offline Points: 128 |
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the positioning is the most important thing in TT, because if you are positioning the wrong way its more then likely to miss the shot. depending on where you are in and on the table. If your in the middleof your left table then you just have to stand towards your right more...... Because ping pong is a fast game you dont have time to turn your body for your RPB. and by the way sense RPB is slower you`ll just have to train. Or you can try blocking the ball for you to improve on your forehand. CHER |
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Name:Cher Lee
Started playing Table tennis: Apirl 13-2011 Blade: Ma Lin Extra OFF Black Rubber: Hurricane 2 Red Rubber: Moon |
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V-Griper
Silver Member Joined: 09/19/2011 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 879 |
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Hit the nail on the head the first time. I have noticed this a lot in his play.
Here is an example of the more attacking rpb of Wang hao. Points 3 and 4 and bunch after that. |
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raphyelrosby
Super Member Joined: 03/22/2010 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 384 |
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**Look at the first point** It is a very good strategy. Edited by raphyelrosby - 04/20/2012 at 12:26pm |
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Xiom Hayabusa ZX, Sigma II pro on FH, Vega Elite BH.
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raphyelrosby
Super Member Joined: 03/22/2010 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 384 |
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Yep!!!! I have that problem of missing my opening loops where the trajectory is very low. By lifting the ball athe backnahd is a little I am confident of getting it over the net. Also a lot of the top guys are tending to loop a little higher as well. I think the 40 mm ball and all rule changes have changed the way you have to approach the game. Back in the days of KTS and those guys, Waldner had a higher arc at that time. The big thing for me right now is not get too anxious to finish the point. We all wish we could finish the point with one hit, but the ball just doesn't go as fast as it used to. I think that's why RSM isn't winning like he used to, because he often ends up defending because he may not have the opportunity to step around, and his opponents force him to to do a weaker shot that can be manipulated easier. Anyways I have found Xu Xin's strategy to be very useful. I specifically cross the backhand loop with outturning spin, to force a return to my center-backhand, and step around and wait to attack. I can catch it right off the bounce down the line with ease, and many times its not contested. I have adopted this tactic and it works great.
Another reason I use a higher arc is because it gives me an extra second to get in position, at which time I can attack the ball earlier on the bounce and use a less powerful safe shot that is difficult to block. That's what Ma Lin did so well, he would attack so quickly that he often hit the ball at medium speed and was not taking the risk of missing. |
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Xiom Hayabusa ZX, Sigma II pro on FH, Vega Elite BH.
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V-Griper
Silver Member Joined: 09/19/2011 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 879 |
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You are right. We can have different solutions to the same problem. In general I like to use drive shots to overcome spins which usually involves more torso/shoulder rotation. I don't use a lifting motion, Which puts more spin on the ball, because I don't like the high arc and subsequent high bounce. It is also slower. The downside to this is that I have a smaller margin of error and thus miss a slightly higher percentage of my shots. The upside is that I either win the point outright or get a defensive return. It also has a "shock and awe" effect whereby opponents won't take the risk of hitting it to my backhand for fear of losing the point outright, even if my conversion rate is low. Xu Xin seems to entice people to hit his flip return so he can set up his attack so it definitely works this way as well. I use an unconventional grip but my bh is much more similar to a ph rpb than a sh bh.
Edited by V-Griper - 04/20/2012 at 1:38pm |
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Loop40mm
Super Member Joined: 11/17/2011 Location: Los Angeles Status: Offline Points: 416 |
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I have played shakehand for eleven years and played RPB for 6 months. My RPB has gotten better than my shakehand backhand. Shakehand backhand has more power. To me, there is more finesse in RPB. Given the opportunity, when I use my left leg, rotate the body and snap the arm, I can still generate power. There seems to be more opportunities for finesse for me. I have two RPB top spins. 1. Bend low, paddle horizontal, elbow close to body so wrist is at 90 degrees. This is not powerful but it is a finesse stroke. 2. Similar to shakehand backhand. Wrist is used when I return serves to my middle. I consider this a finesse stroke. I have not gotten to the stage to generate enough power, but the spin of the ball generates enough velocity. |
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Stiga Ebenholz NCT V
FH Tenergy 05 BH DHS Tin Arc 3 |
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raphyelrosby
Super Member Joined: 03/22/2010 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 384 |
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I think instead of arguing over differences, everyone should try to figure out what is best for their game. I use a lot of wrist for my RPB and it allows me to move around to initiate a forehand attack easier than a large arm movement. Also if you watch Xu Xin, he uses a lot of wrist action whereas Ma Long used more arm as he is one of those who helped develop the shot. I would bet that Xu Xin has a good shakehand backhand (as I do) because that's how I learned my backhand. I played shakehand for about 6 months, and hated the forehand, but it helped develop my backhand. There is good and bad to both techniques. Why not make it a real discussion instead of an argument. I swing more upwards when opening a rally on my forehand, but I can recover, so its not a hindrance, but most would say go forward. Its all about your comfort and your style. I have videos posted in the video section of my technique for RPB and honestly I think it is going to be a bigger challenge to loop backspin without the wrist snap.
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Xiom Hayabusa ZX, Sigma II pro on FH, Vega Elite BH.
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zikmir
Member Joined: 04/19/2012 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1 |
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Hi, i mean no offence, but its hard to watch people with good equipment not playing or having the wrong technique ! Please if you must, bend lower, the whole point is to be at a level like a 10 year old kid, plus your foot work is just not there, u can watch some video of how to hop side ways or do cross work for reaching the corners of the table ! and may i suggest not using your wrist and keeping it locked. Im just saying all this to see people improve, i my self am a beginner, using Ma lin Extra off /DHs 3 hurricane neo 2.15/ and friendship all rounder 1.8 on back.
Edited by zikmir - 04/19/2012 at 7:37pm |
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sweetstrike
Silver Member Joined: 11/30/2010 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 689 |
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Blit'z is very grippy and it has a higher throw than Macro Era. The throw and spin generation is pretty close to T05. The sponge feels slightly softer and bouncier than T05 and the topsheet is more fragile. Never had a chance to use Thors so can't compare to that.
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simon_xuan
Gold Member Joined: 08/02/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1305 |
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I tried Thor on the fh to replace my TG2 and H3 and really liked it. I do have to hit into the sponge more to generate the loop, but that's a good habit to build up anyway. I never tried Blitz at BH for RPB. Is it grippy only and half sticky/tacky?
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RPB Rocks!
BTY Innerforce ZLC Cpen | DHS H3N Blue Sponge | Victas V>15 Extra Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=36695 |
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Penhold_Boy
Super Member Joined: 11/27/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 113 |
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Wow, there was some amazing RPB shots.
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Current Setup: Grip - Penhold Blade: Ma Lin Extra Offensive FH: Adidas P7 BH: Nittaku Hammond Pro Beta Old Setup: FH: DHS Skyline 3 NEO BH: Butterfly Sriver G3 FX |
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sweetstrike
Silver Member Joined: 11/30/2010 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 689 |
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Sallom89
Gold Member Joined: 05/19/2009 Location: Kuwait Status: Offline Points: 1925 |
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Today I was Ripping some crazy RPB topspins, If I keep that form then I'll record it!
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Member of Wang Hao fan club.
Hurricane Hao III FH: Thors RPB: Omega Pro |
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simon_xuan
Gold Member Joined: 08/02/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1305 |
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Trust me, the equipment makes the different. You need to mix and match until you found your gear is "tuned up" properly. Then you probably don't want change the setup, or you will break the balancing dynamics.
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RPB Rocks!
BTY Innerforce ZLC Cpen | DHS H3N Blue Sponge | Victas V>15 Extra Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=36695 |
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Rogson
Beginner Joined: 12/15/2009 Location: Panama Status: Offline Points: 58 |
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According to reviews, H2 has a low-throw angle so this MAY be the reason I am scared of using RPB and resorting to block/lob. Will try twiddling my paddle to see how it works, I didn't really think equipment affected one's technique in a noticeable level.... and if it doesn't work, time to switch techniques (ugh)
Thanks for that, will try it as soon as I am able to. Edited by Rogson - 04/05/2011 at 12:20pm |
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Yasaka Ma Lin Extra Offensive
Forehand DHS Hurricane 3 Backhand DHS Hurricane 2 |
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chris.b40
Platinum Member Joined: 03/12/2009 Status: Offline Points: 2505 |
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+1 |
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AVALOX BLUE THUNDER
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simon_xuan
Gold Member Joined: 08/02/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1305 |
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H2 may not be the best rubber for you on the BH. You might have to hit it real hard to "hit through" the DHS sponge in order to generate enough spin. Plus the arc is low, and you may have difficulty to clear the net. It might be the reason you ended up resorting to lobbing and defense. Understanding the RPB weakness, I used more spinny and bouncy rubber on the BH. Please note, I am only talking about TT lover and amateur level. How professional do their trick is beyond the discussion. Have fun.
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RPB Rocks!
BTY Innerforce ZLC Cpen | DHS H3N Blue Sponge | Victas V>15 Extra Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=36695 |
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Rogson
Beginner Joined: 12/15/2009 Location: Panama Status: Offline Points: 58 |
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Thanks for the videos, you got a nice form simon, I wonder whether I can use it as a guideline
After digging and thinking fora bit, it looks like my lack of power comes from only using the wrist and a small part of the forehand or only using the wrist(most of the times).... Placement is very important as well but when my opponent extends the game into a rally I end up only lobbing or blocking if meh opponent goes BH happymode. |
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Yasaka Ma Lin Extra Offensive
Forehand DHS Hurricane 3 Backhand DHS Hurricane 2 |
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simon_xuan
Gold Member Joined: 08/02/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1305 |
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Thanks Zheyi. I am still working on it. But from EJ perspective, I did stick with Yasaka blades a lot. My recent favorite bh rubber is Donic Barracuda.
Oh, back to RPB power. I think it pays to notice the position you rip the ball back. Usually I feel more at control when returning loops at top of the bounce or a little bit earlier than the top, if that make sense. At this point, I can borrow whatever is coming toward me and double it with my forward stroke. At the point, I still use RPB to push the opponents to return weak balls and finish the point with my forehand. But that's more tactics than strokes. But I have to agree RPB for penhold, at least to me, if not as powerful as shakehander at the same level. Like ShaolinTT said, the placement is a art. Edited by simon_xuan - 04/04/2011 at 11:14pm |
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RPB Rocks!
BTY Innerforce ZLC Cpen | DHS H3N Blue Sponge | Victas V>15 Extra Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=36695 |
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zheyi
Silver Member Joined: 06/28/2009 Status: Offline Points: 940 |
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very nice strokes u have!
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simon_xuan
Gold Member Joined: 08/02/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1305 |
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Thanks ShaolinTT. I like the Wang, Jian Jun's new RPB stroke since he moved away from simulating Ryu's Jpen. He seems to be playing YEO as well, not a big swing for his newly developed RPB.
I put up a clip of mine during my practicing with my club mates. I recently practiced more on my strokes against top spin, and now working on more attacking agaist backspin. Of course, you know it's different when you are trying to do RPB during tournament. Anyhow, for your laugh, but also open for suggestions. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isIxJV9r0oM Edited by simon_xuan - 04/03/2011 at 3:36pm |
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RPB Rocks!
BTY Innerforce ZLC Cpen | DHS H3N Blue Sponge | Victas V>15 Extra Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=36695 |
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Sallom89
Gold Member Joined: 05/19/2009 Location: Kuwait Status: Offline Points: 1925 |
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hope that we will do :p
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Member of Wang Hao fan club.
Hurricane Hao III FH: Thors RPB: Omega Pro |
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zheyi
Silver Member Joined: 06/28/2009 Status: Offline Points: 940 |
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yeah.. i be having a double competition soon. will post it here.. so keep bumping this trend :p
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Sallom89
Gold Member Joined: 05/19/2009 Location: Kuwait Status: Offline Points: 1925 |
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I've posted mine and would like to see your technique guys, would be intiresting to see Zheyi's!
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Member of Wang Hao fan club.
Hurricane Hao III FH: Thors RPB: Omega Pro |
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zheyi
Silver Member Joined: 06/28/2009 Status: Offline Points: 940 |
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interesting debates there! why not post both your videos side by side to show your differe nces?
challenge??? maybe i will post mine after yours :P
I know many uses shakehand techniques on rpb, but there's more in rpbs.. e.g. the backspin loops...
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shaolinTT
Silver Member Joined: 03/14/2010 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 939 |
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Nice instruction video, simon. Thanks.
Here is Wang JJ demonstrating his RPB. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_fpbkzp-7o Rogson, you mention "RPB power", but the well "placement" of a RPB shot is important too, probably most important. |
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simon_xuan
Gold Member Joined: 08/02/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1305 |
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+1 to non-tacky jap or euro rubber on BH. Sriver is a good one to start with your YE. There are two BH loop variations: side loop like European players, or the underneath center style like Chinese players. See this coaching clip below: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTo8YO4Ckhc. It talked about both Shakehand and RPB styles in Chinese. I personally think you can borrow from both variations, with more or less wrist movement of your liking.
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RPB Rocks!
BTY Innerforce ZLC Cpen | DHS H3N Blue Sponge | Victas V>15 Extra Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=36695 |
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