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    Posted: 02/12/2013 at 12:14pm
This tournament has just finished (Feb 8-10). Here are some videos (Eugene Wang from Canada beat Adrien Mattenet in quarters!)

Eugene Wang vs Adrien Mattenet (QF)

Vladimir Samsonov vs Marcos Madrid (QF)

Vladimir Samsonov vs Dimitrij Ovtcharov (F)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jrscatman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/12/2013 at 12:26pm
Thanks for the vid - fantastic match between Wang Zhen and Mattenet
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Anton Chigurh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/12/2013 at 12:45pm
That match between Eugene Wang and Adrien Mattenet was excellent

Thanks for posting, JimT.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AcudaDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/12/2013 at 12:51pm
How the heck did Wang beat Mattenet? Adrian was in charge, but looked like he forced it a little too much. I've never been a fan of Eugene's but he can keep the ball on the table. His blocks are very good and he just plays very consistently. That was a great win for Eugene.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mhnh007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/12/2013 at 1:27pm
In the beginning Mattenet was able to attack close to the table and surprice Eugene, and won a lot of point there.  From game 3 on Eugene kept serving to the FH, and challenged Mattenet to attack, and since Eugene can sustain the attack, it pushed Mattenet back, and once he was pushed back, he did not have anything on Eugene to win.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ghostzen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/12/2013 at 1:36pm
very good control and strangley the slower ball caused a lot of problems for Mattenet. Losing to a lower ranked player is never going to make anyone happy but then credit where credit is due.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sandiway Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/12/2013 at 1:37pm
The final was also an upset. I expected Otcharov's power and aggression to dominate against Samsonov, who can be pretty passive. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AcudaDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/12/2013 at 2:26pm
hey Sandiway...good to see you on the forum. Would love to have a re-match with you sometime.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/12/2013 at 2:31pm
Too bad they don't have videos of semifinals... or maybe someone will post them soon.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote right2niru Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/12/2013 at 2:33pm
Originally posted by AcudaDave AcudaDave wrote:

How the heck did Wang beat Mattenet? Adrian was in charge, but looked like he forced it a little too much. I've never been a fan of Eugene's but he can keep the ball on the table. His blocks are very good and he just plays very consistently. That was a great win for Eugene.

Eugene started changing the pace on the ball and not letting Mattenet dominate from far back of the table starting the 3rd game. Even though the strokes Mattenet played looks pretty and consistent the strategy Eugene adopted worked but it was also a mental 7th game where a higher ranked player sometimes choke.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote beeray1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/12/2013 at 4:00pm
Yeah Eugene played smart, safe, and when a lot of players would have tried to keep pounding the ball he simply spun it up. Adrien Mattenet is one of the best at turning defense to offense, and Eugene was not only good enough to force the mistakes, he was good enough to force mattenet into the defensive, and where he played smartest was not letting him come out of the defense (even though he still managed to a few times). And when Mattenet did get his strong shots in, Eugene just said "so what?" 

Awesome match, and very smart play on Eugene's part. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/12/2013 at 4:58pm
Originally posted by sandiway sandiway wrote:

The final was also an upset. I expected Otcharov's power and aggression to dominate against Samsonov, who can be pretty passive. 
 
They are teammates - sometimes, knowing someone's game from practice upsets the apple cart - see what Ovtcharov did to Boll last year.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mickael Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/12/2013 at 5:00pm
The table is not new, the ball is sliding all the time, he is a fat player standing in the middle the ball is coming to him without any side spin or kick . He could never won on an approved new table in a pro tour. It is like a table we have all in a club used with no friction. Too bad for a reputable player like matinett to play in such poor conditions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vutiendat1337 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/12/2013 at 5:07pm
Originally posted by Mickael Mickael wrote:

The table is not new, the ball is sliding all the time, he is a fat player standing in the middle the ball is coming to him without any side spin or kick . He could never won on an approved new table in a pro tour. It is like a table we have all in a club used with no friction. Too bad for a reputable player like matinett to play in such poor conditions.


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Edited by vutiendat1337 - 02/12/2013 at 5:08pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mickael Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/13/2013 at 1:44am
Originally posted by vutiendat1337 vutiendat1337 wrote:



Originally posted by Mickael Mickael wrote:

The table is not new, the ball is sliding all the time, he is a fat player standing in the middle the ball is coming to him without any side spin or kick . He could never won on an approved new table in a pro tour. It is like a table we have all in a club used with no friction. Too bad for a reputable player like matinett to play in such poor conditions.

LOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOL


Finally we found a spammer who is ruining all the discussions, who is not writing table tennis arguments just emoticons and photos.May I remind you that this is a table tennis forum not Facebook.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sandiway Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/13/2013 at 2:04am
Originally posted by AcudaDave AcudaDave wrote:

hey Sandiway...good to see you on the forum. Would love to have a re-match with you sometime.

Hey Dave. Sure. A rematch is on. In terms of the scores, you got a lot of catching up to do... :)

Cheers,

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AcudaDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/13/2013 at 10:41am
woa...it's definitely on now Sandiway. You never played me with SPs. I'm much tougher to play against since I switched to SP on the FH. Maybe you have an RPB now too, so I'm looking forward to the rematch.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote beeray1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/13/2013 at 1:23pm
Originally posted by Mickael Mickael wrote:

Originally posted by vutiendat1337 vutiendat1337 wrote:



Originally posted by Mickael Mickael wrote:

The table is not new, the ball is sliding all the time, he is a fat player standing in the middle the ball is coming to him without any side spin or kick . He could never won on an approved new table in a pro tour. It is like a table we have all in a club used with no friction. Too bad for a reputable player like matinett to play in such poor conditions.

LOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOL


Finally we found a spammer who is ruining all the discussions, who is not writing table tennis arguments just emoticons and photos.May I remind you that this is a table tennis forum not Facebook.

Sometimes they are appropriate and funny. A good example of that would be immediately after the ridiculous comment that you made, Mickael. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sandiway Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/13/2013 at 4:05pm
Originally posted by AcudaDave AcudaDave wrote:

woa...it's definitely on now Sandiway. You never played me with SPs. I'm much tougher to play against since I switched to SP on the FH. Maybe you have an RPB now too, so I'm looking forward to the rematch.

Actually Dave, I think you'll probably win now. You never stopped playing. I stopped for quite a few years before picking it up again. But I think it'll be a good match.

Sandiway 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mickael Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/13/2013 at 4:22pm
Originally posted by beeray1 beeray1 wrote:


Originally posted by Mickael Mickael wrote:

Originally posted by vutiendat1337 vutiendat1337 wrote:



Originally posted by Mickael Mickael wrote:

The table is not new, the ball is sliding all the time, he is a fat player standing in the middle the ball is coming to him without any side spin or kick . He could never won on an approved new table in a pro tour. It is like a table we have all in a club used with no friction. Too bad for a reputable player like matinett to play in such poor conditions.

LOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOL


Finally we found a spammer who is ruining all the discussions, who is not writing table tennis arguments just emoticons and photos.May I remind you that this is a table tennis forum not Facebook.

Sometimes they are appropriate and funny. A good example of that would be immediately after the ridiculous comment that you made, Mickael. 

When I say the ball is skidding on the table and you answer hahaha, when I say matinett lost in a poor conditions you answer hahaha, who is the ridiculous I might ask ?!?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sugengz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/13/2013 at 11:07pm
Originally posted by Mickael Mickael wrote:

The table is not new, the ball is sliding all the time, he is a fat player standing in the middle the ball is coming to him without any side spin or kick . He could never won on an approved new table in a pro tour. It is like a table we have all in a club used with no friction. Too bad for a reputable player like matinett to play in such poor conditions.


Both use the same table right? Why blame on the table?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/13/2013 at 11:18pm
Originally posted by sugengz sugengz wrote:

Originally posted by Mickael Mickael wrote:

The table is not new, the ball is sliding all the time, he is a fat player standing in the middle the ball is coming to him without any side spin or kick . He could never won on an approved new table in a pro tour. It is like a table we have all in a club used with no friction. Too bad for a reputable player like matinett to play in such poor conditions.


Both use the same table right? Why blame on the table?

This is a strange argument.
 
First, most high level tables have a lower coefficient of friction.  When I've talked to pros in the past, they complain about the stickiness/slowness of club tables.  And typically, tables getting slower (more sticky) over time due to the buildup of dirt and sweat.
 
Second, the fact that something is the same for both players (such as the same table condition) doesn't mean that it's equally fair to both players.  I've seen many people make that claim and there is no logic to it.  Players develop their styles and tactics based on certain playing conditions.  When you give them different conditions (like a different table), then some players will adapter more easily than others because their style is better suited.  Any time you make the playing conditions non-standard, it will usually favor one player over the other. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sugengz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/14/2013 at 12:05am
Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

Originally posted by sugengz sugengz wrote:

Originally posted by Mickael Mickael wrote:

The table is not new, the ball is sliding all the time, he is a fat player standing in the middle the ball is coming to him without any side spin or kick . He could never won on an approved new table in a pro tour. It is like a table we have all in a club used with no friction. Too bad for a reputable player like matinett to play in such poor conditions.


Both use the same table right? Why blame on the table?

This is a strange argument.
 
First, most high level tables have a lower coefficient of friction.  When I've talked to pros in the past, they complain about the stickiness/slowness of club tables.  And typically, tables getting slower (more sticky) over time due to the buildup of dirt and sweat.
 
Second, the fact that something is the same for both players (such as the same table condition) doesn't mean that it's equally fair to both players.  I've seen many people make that claim and there is no logic to it.  Players develop their styles and tactics based on certain playing conditions.  When you give them different conditions (like a different table), then some players will adapter more easily than others because their style is better suited.  Any time you make the playing conditions non-standard, it will usually favor one player over the other. 


Both have to adjust their game and strategy; winner are those who could adjust the situations and opponent....

In the end... If table only gave such a great advantage... Why Wang didn't win the competition?
Matenet fail to adjust his game therefore he lose...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mrdoodzki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/14/2013 at 1:36am
bottomline: that was a very stupid and funny comment by mikael
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mickael Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/14/2013 at 2:14am
Originally posted by mrdoodzki mrdoodzki wrote:

bottomline: that was a very stupid and funny comment by mikael

Bottom line you don't have anything else to say, keep repeating it and maybe you will not look more stupid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roundrobin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/14/2013 at 2:17am
Originally posted by Mickael Mickael wrote:

Originally posted by mrdoodzki mrdoodzki wrote:

bottomline: that was a very stupid and funny comment by mikael

Bottom line you don't have anything else to say, keep repeating it and maybe you will not look more stupid.


If the "top" player decided to play then there's no excuses.  Sore loser comes to mind.





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mickael Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/14/2013 at 2:19am
Yes matinett didn't adapt to the sliding table top and he lost. But a Swiss open is not a tournament club they should supply a new table for the reputation of the tournament.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speedplay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/14/2013 at 2:20am
Originally posted by Mickael Mickael wrote:

Originally posted by mrdoodzki mrdoodzki wrote:

bottomline: that was a very stupid and funny comment by mikael

Bottom line you don't have anything else to say, keep repeating it and maybe you will not look more stupid.


tables does vary in quality, but unless I'm misinformed, players are informed well before the tournament begins, which tables are to be used. So all players should have plenty of time to adjust to the tables being used. To blame the table for one players loss seems rather stupid to me. I'm fairly confident that all major tournaments uses high quality tables with only small differences to them. Mattinet lost because Wang outsmarted him at the table, not because the table favoured Wang.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mickael Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/14/2013 at 2:28am
Yes but you can adjust to a new table, but you can't to an old one. Maybe wang practice a lot on old tables at his club and matinett maybe practice on new butterfly tables or something alike ( I do not know what the French league are using right now) and that is a very big difference I might say.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/14/2013 at 2:36am
Originally posted by sugengz sugengz wrote:

Both have to adjust their game and strategy; winner are those who could adjust the situations and opponent....

In the end... If table only gave such a great advantage... Why Wang didn't win the competition?
Matenet fail to adjust his game therefore he lose...
 
I'm not claiming that the table did give anyone an advantage or disadvantage.  Upsets happen all the time.  I was just watching a video of Skachkov beating Samsonov (one of my all time favorite players) in the semis of the Europe Top 12. A huge upset, but it happens.
 
What I am saying is that unusual playing conditions can favor one player over another.
 
Let's take an analogy from tennis.  We all know that different tennis courts (grass, clay, asphalt, etc.) favor different styles of play and that it's common for players to play better on one surface than another.  But suppose the players didn't know what kind of surface they were going to play on when they showed up for the match? Or suppose they were told to expect one surface and were actually given a different surface? They may or may not be able to adjust, depending upon their playing style and their background (what kind of surface they have at home).  There's a reason why people have "home court advantage" and it's more than just having the fans on your side. It's a matter of being accustomed to the playing circumstances.
 
Maybe Matenet didn't like the tables, or maybe he had an off day, or maybe there was some other factor at play. I don't know and don't care to guess.  But if you tell me the playing circumstances are non-standard, then that change will favor one player over another. People who say "it's the same change for both players so it should affect them the same" are not using logic.
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