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Original Butterfly Borzsey?

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edizg View Drop Down
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    Posted: 06/15/2014 at 3:47pm
I traded my Butterfly Borzsey for one Stiga blade before a few weeks. Forum memeber thinks it is a fake Borszey, so he asked me to open this thread, because he wants to be sure it is original. I think it is a newer version of Borzsey which is made in Hungary and that is the reason why this blade hasn't "J.T.T.A" on the bottom of the handle. I saw the same version of Borzsey on thread of forum member pepemol. (http://forum.tt-news.de/showthread.php?t=160792) So, if somebody knows something more about this version of Borzsey please write it. If it is fake I have promised that I will accept it back.


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Timo1978 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Timo1978 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/15/2014 at 5:20pm
To me this Looks like a legit Butterfly Börzsey.

The older Butterfly Models of the 1970ies often do not have a J.T.T.A.A. stamp like this model, Stipancic-H, Swedish Style, Jonyer-H or Firehand Style. If you take a look at Kenny Style we have ones with golden sticker, yellow sticker some have old metal tags. American Style even has different prints on their handles. Missing J.T.T.A.A. stamp is no hint that the blade is faked.

I checked my Börzsey at home, shape and handle is 100% the same.
When i received my one it arrived with original box and attached Rubbers, with old Butterfly Inlay and was also protected with Butterfly wrap. Plus, i do not think that the Butterfly EU Production in Hungary was already established in these early years....


Edited by Timo1978 - 06/15/2014 at 5:21pm
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jonyer1980 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonyer1980 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/15/2014 at 5:29pm
I also think this one is 100% original.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kolevtt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/15/2014 at 6:30pm
This blade is looking nice, but I have never heard for Borzsey made in Hungary?
Any mistake here?
I thought all the blades in 70's with this metal tag are Japan made and never in Hungary.
Beautiful blade, indeed Smile

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote frogger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/15/2014 at 8:00pm

That was one of the old basswood series. Allround class and slow by todays standards. Nice for a collector. :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tt-panopticum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/16/2014 at 5:25am
Hi,
sorry to be of less positive opinion.....I've bought one like this from ebay some time ago - and to my opinion it seems to be more like a fake. Reportedly there are some series of fake "made in hungary" by some home-factory.
If you could post a close up of the metal tag - this could help.
Mine has a slightly pixeled print (never seen with originals) and the metal tag with roughly filed edges.....the original ones are stamped. with slightly rounded burr but very evenly.

Best regards

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Timo1978 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/16/2014 at 6:18am
Here a Picture of the one i have in my colection. I think we Need better Pictures of the other one to be able to compare both.   



Edited by Timo1978 - 06/16/2014 at 6:21am
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edizg View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote edizg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/16/2014 at 6:27am
Thanks to all for comments. I think it is original version of Borzsey, but I have been the owner, so I shouldn't comment :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jabemu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/16/2014 at 9:23am


 






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Timo1978 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Timo1978 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/17/2014 at 7:40am
Nice ones! Jabemu, what is your opinion? Is the left one a "fake" or not?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jabemu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/17/2014 at 9:39am
Yes, I have the both models. The one that is under suspect (A) is slower and feel different in play to the other one (B). I have seen some (A) models in new conditions (like made recently!!) but any of (B) in similar conditions.

I cannot say if (A) is fake or not. Somebody said me that it is not fake and even (A) is older than (B) but I dont remember if he was a collector or not. 

Perhaps an expert collector can say something about this.

I know some from Sweden that could give us here his opinionBig smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jabemu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/19/2014 at 5:43am
By the last information that I have, the rare model of Borszei is not fake. An expert contacted to me and said that Janos Borszei received several similar Borszei blades ((A) models) from Butterly representative Dr. Bela Simon when he ended his professional career. Even the expert has one signed by J. Borszei and it is obvious that he didn't sing a fake blade with his name surely.

I have a high confidence with the opinion of this expert. Hence I think that this (A) model is nearly 100% genuine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Timo1978 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/19/2014 at 2:12pm
Jabemu, thanks for the Information and your Research.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote edizg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/19/2014 at 2:41pm
Thanks for informations Jabemu!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote emihet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/19/2014 at 2:46pm
Yes this is a borzsey custom made from the 90s only 4 layers are hinoki, the core is not hinoki like the original slower thinner 5 ply hinoki from the 70s.  This blade is faster, thicker and is likely hungarian made.  I had 3 of them and played with one of them for a few months.
Stiga Intensity, Viscaria, Clipper Wood
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jabemu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/19/2014 at 2:57pm
Thanks for the information emihet, but the mine is slower than the other model I have Confused
The other model has top plies of different thickness on BH and FH (?)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kolevtt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/13/2020 at 1:52am
From what I see here - the one blade in left is with wenge handle (very heavy material compared to others) and the other one is with mahogany handle. Only Imperial / Joola + Cor Du Buy had these wenge handles on their blades in the past. So I think the blade in left from jabemu's picture is probably some aftermarket version, but the blade with mahogany handle is the real one. There's no basswood in the blade's outer plies in the topic owner's pictures.
I have Original Butterfly Borszey blade, if someone is interested I could send pictures by e-mail.

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