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Analysis of pro's backhands

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    Posted: 09/24/2014 at 5:41pm
Let's do it this way.

Purely theoretical: assume you're young & have lots of training time. You want to change & hone your BH stroke based on a pro player's. Which player's stroke would you target?
  1. Karakasevic: while I love watching his BH more than that of any other player, his stroke is too convex & timing sensitive
  2. Kreanga: just don't like his large stroke
  3. Henzell: he's had so much success with it - but I think a lot of it has to do with his general quick style / reflexes. I think using that much wrist also requires great timing that could be disrupted (& lead to errors) by a strong opponent.
  4. Ma Long: it has become so much more effective over the years (though his FH overshadows his BH) & has good power from mid-distance as well
  5. ZJK: probably the best from at the table
  6. Ovtcharov: probably the one I'd analyze for mid-distance strokes. Linear forward action
  7. Boll: while his FH-BH transitions are very quick and he can rally well at the table with his BH, I just don't like his stroke at all
  8. Tokic: I like his stroke (though a bit large as well)
Side observation: ompare the number of points Ovtcharov wins from 2 steps back with his BH to what ZJK wins. While part of the reason is that ZJK's footwork for step-around is so much better & quicker, the relative reduction in power of his BH from mid-distance seems to suggest that he's using softer rubber than Ovtcharov is.

I must have forgotten many. This is not a closed check-list - suggest your own players. I'd love to see some of you bring out clips of lesser known players with great BHs.




Edited by slevin - 09/24/2014 at 5:42pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Argothman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/24/2014 at 5:43pm
For shake hand players Zhang Jike and Fan Zhendong are the masters of over the table play. Ma long has an insane backhand counterloop, and Ovtcharov is great at mid distance.

For penholders I would say Wang Hao the undisputed king of backhands.

Edited by Argothman - 09/24/2014 at 5:43pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CraneStyle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/24/2014 at 6:16pm
Originally posted by Argothman Argothman wrote:

For shake hand players Zhang Jike and Fan Zhendong are the masters of over the table play. Ma long has an insane backhand counterloop, and Ovtcharov is great at mid distance.

For penholders I would say Wang Hao the undisputed king of backhands.


+1

Add Chuang Chih-yuan - Awesome BH skills with power on tap...

... And all these players have brilliant directional blocking technique ...
1. Mizutani Jun ZLC, FH T80, BH T05
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/24/2014 at 6:58pm
Damien Provost, Vladimir Samsonov, Adrien Mattenet. Will return to discuss who I think slevin is not giving his due.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/24/2014 at 7:06pm
And never forget Persson, Primorac and Rosskopf.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DreiZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/24/2014 at 7:23pm
Personal favorite backhands: Boll, Samsonov, Mattenet, Franziska.

T. Boll: His BH is most pure out of all 4 because mechanics are very fluid close and away from the table.

V. Samsonov: His BH is a blocking machine but he can surprise you with a very powerful BH loop.

A. Mattenet: Great opening BH with an amazing quality swing against heavy topspin and backspin.

P. Franziska: Similar to Boll but with more power due to his height.

***I do want to mention Ovtcharov's BH. Although it's the best BH in the world today with tremendous power and speed, the technique he uses is a bit "awkward-looking" from a viewing angle. Still he has the most efficient BH in the world today and according to some Chinese coaches the most feel in it.

On the lower levels: Damien Provost and Eugene Wang both have really good backhand control, placement, and consistency.

Edited by DreiZ - 09/24/2014 at 7:44pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JacekGM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/24/2014 at 8:04pm
Why people keep giving Mattenet as an example? He is slow, lame, overrated, top 100 players beat him all the time. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DreiZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/24/2014 at 8:20pm
Originally posted by JacekGM JacekGM wrote:

Why people keep giving Mattenet as an example? He is slow, lame, overrated, top 100 players beat him all the time. 


"He has a good BH" does not equal to "he is a great player".

People use him as an example because he can open up with it and attack pretty well but the rest of his tt technique is not so good compared to other pros.

He is kinda lame in terms of attitude/professionalism. I agree on that...

but.. his BH drive/loop stroke is definitely one of the best in Europe, IMO.

Edited by DreiZ - 09/24/2014 at 8:31pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lestat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/24/2014 at 10:06pm
I would say half the players on that list - Henzell, Ovtcharov, Boll, Tokic - have built in quirks unique to them. I wouldn't make text book models out of them. My idea is find the cleanest, most effective bh (for you) in the modern game and have that as a role model. As you're progressing, yours will also become more or less unique to you. Let that happen naturally/organically, don't copy one with quirks already in it.

For me, it was Kreanga at first but after a while it became obvious it's a very difficult style to hone in. It's the most powerful and spiniest, but it takes an inordinate amount of practice hours to make it reliable, and even then the super fast wrist whip makes it quite risky compared to more conventional styles. I suspect that's why we haven't seen the likes of it with any of the upcoming juniors.

Then, I started to emulate Ma Long. To me it is the perfect bh for a number of reasons: just enough whip to get nice spin and arc but not too much that it requires super precision, stroke away from the table very similar to stroke over the table, nice counterbalance with the left arm, natural and fluid, very reliable overall.

So Ma Long gets my vote.


Edited by Lestat - 09/24/2014 at 10:11pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DreiZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/24/2014 at 11:27pm
Originally posted by Lestat Lestat wrote:


I would say half the players on that list - Henzell, Ovtcharov, Boll, Tokic - have built in quirks unique to them. I wouldn't make text book models out of them. My idea is find the cleanest, most effective bh (for you) in the modern game and have that as a role model. As you're progressing, yours will also become more or less unique to you. Let that happen naturally/organically, don't copy one with quirks already in it.

For me, it was Kreanga at first but after a while it became obvious it's a very difficult style to hone in. It's the most powerful and spiniest, but it takes an inordinate amount of practice hours to make it reliable, and even then the super fast wrist whip makes it quite risky compared to more conventional styles. I suspect that's why we haven't seen the likes of it with any of the upcoming juniors.

Then, I started to emulate Ma Long. To me it is the perfect bh for a number of reasons: just enough whip to get nice spin and arc but not too much that it requires super precision, stroke away from the table very similar to stroke over the table, nice counterbalance with the left arm, natural and fluid, very reliable overall.

So Ma Long gets my vote.


do like Ma Long as well. His stroke is very compact and energy transfer is so efficient.... and not to mention his consistency is superb. Probably my favorite BH out of all CNT, along with Chen Qi although Qi's fh is his main weapon.

Edited by DreiZ - 09/24/2014 at 11:28pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonathanVN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/24/2014 at 11:53pm
If I could have any backhand of the players mentioned, I would have to choose ZJK. His on the table flick and even mid-range flicks have so much power and spin that I desperately need. I also like Boll's mid to long range game. He makes it look so effortless, yet can impart an insane amount of spin on the ball. Though his stroke looks a tiny bit unorthodox, it is still very smooth and fluid. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/24/2014 at 11:59pm
Originally posted by slevin slevin wrote:

Let's do it this way.

Purely theoretical: assume you're young & have lots of training time. You want to change & hone your BH stroke based on a pro player's. Which player's stroke would you target?
  1. Karakasevic: while I love watching his BH more than that of any other player, his stroke is too convex & timing sensitive
  2. Kreanga: just don't like his large stroke
  3. Henzell: he's had so much success with it - but I think a lot of it has to do with his general quick style / reflexes. I think using that much wrist also requires great timing that could be disrupted (& lead to errors) by a strong opponent.
  4. Ma Long: it has become so much more effective over the years (though his FH overshadows his BH) & has good power from mid-distance as well
  5. ZJK: probably the best from at the table
  6. Ovtcharov: probably the one I'd analyze for mid-distance strokes. Linear forward action
  7. Boll: while his FH-BH transitions are very quick and he can rally well at the table with his BH, I just don't like his stroke at all
  8. Tokic: I like his stroke (though a bit large as well)
Side observation: ompare the number of points Ovtcharov wins from 2 steps back with his BH to what ZJK wins. While part of the reason is that ZJK's footwork for step-around is so much better & quicker, the relative reduction in power of his BH from mid-distance seems to suggest that he's using softer rubber than Ovtcharov is.

I must have forgotten many. This is not a closed check-list - suggest your own players. I'd love to see some of you bring out clips of lesser known players with great BHs.



My take:

1.  Karakasevic's backhand (like a few others) has a lefty advantage built in.  His stroke is not time sensitive at all - it relies on a grip like Persson's that allows for extra torque from the hand and extremely powerful swats.  Probably the best underspin third ball backhand out there.  The grip makes it harder to model though for people with regular shakehands grips.

2. Both Tokic and Kreanga take advantage of their size and reach, especially Kreanga.  I wouldn't emulate them not because they aren't role models - I wouldn't emulate them because measuring that stroke with my size is extremely difficult but for a smaller person who wants backhand power, I see nothing wrong with those guys.

3.  Henzell's backhand is the standard modern over the table backhand - if it's quirky, then every modern backhand is quirky.  Nothing quirky about it in the least and the timing is easy for anyone who actually practices it.  I teach it to people in 10 minutes all the time at tournaments and they feel comfortable enough to execute it during matches, especially on service return and third ball.  The key for Henzell is that because he plays close to the table, he doesn't often do wristless backhand strokes a la Ma Long.  He also rarely flat blocks - most of his blocks are counterspins or kicks.  But close to the table, you could compare his backhand to just about any top backhand.  He just doesn't have the footwork or form of ZJK and Ovtcharov nor their blocking stability, but over the table, I would not feel his backhand loop is inferior to theirs.

4.  Ma Long - I get jealous of his away from the table backhand very often, though I get less jealous when I compare it to Wang Hao.  Still a beautiful stroke.

5. ZJK - Nuff said - the versatility is amazing.

6. Dima - again, a special talent.  Probably the most complete backhand out there.  Takes advantage of his height and arm length to use very short strokes. Versatile from all distances.

7.  Timo Boll - fantastic backhand that unfortunately was given to the wrong player.  Probably the spinninest backhand opening with his reverse sidespin then backhand opening loop combo.  Primary weakness is an inability to create pressure or change directions close to the table when facing incoming topspin from fellow top players.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mickael Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/25/2014 at 6:22am
1st ovtcharov has the best backhand.
Now if you want to emulate and practice,choose a Japanese or European player. The Chinese are very difficult to emulate it relies too much on timing and practice than no one in the world could achieve even Chinese below 20 nor the top players in the world.
Now a good practice is to emulate Adrian crisan or Person whose backhand strokes would be possible during a match and also during lifetime not like ma lin or any other Chinese that simply vanish at 30.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/25/2014 at 8:14am
Mickael,

That is pointless and racist. There is nothing inherently athletic or age constrained about how the CNT backhands are used other than their footwork.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vvk1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/25/2014 at 8:20am
The bh of any non-defender pro from  top 100 that uses the same grip as you is insanely great, and worthy of emulation. Heh, I'll take the BH of any top 100-200 player without a moment's hesitation, and blast off the table anyone who thinks my technique is not beauitiful.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/25/2014 at 8:26am
Originally posted by vvk1 vvk1 wrote:

The bh of any non-defender pro <span style="line-height: 16.7999992370605px;">from  top 100 </span>that uses the same grip as you is insanely great, and worthy of emulation. Heh, I'll take the BH of any top 100-200 player without a moment's hesitation, and blast off the table anyone who thinks my technique is not beauitiful.


I was going to make a similar point but some are better and more versatile than others and some are relative weaknesses and mostly block consistently.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/25/2014 at 8:29am
Let me put it another way - not all top 200 players open with the backhand.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote beeray1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/25/2014 at 8:42am
I always thought Oh Sang Eun's backhand was tops. That's my opinion, but it seemed so versatile and the changes in direction were so subtle. Not to mention his smoothness, his insane feeling, and power when it's wanted. He can play that bad boy off the table, too. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tommy16 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/25/2014 at 8:49am
Answer to OP. I would defenitely try to copy Samsonovs bh. It is a bh from textbook. Technicaly very stable and powerful enough. No unnecessary movements which makes his bh very realible in all situations.
What is the point of playing safe shots when you can miss with style

My feedback: http://www.mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=67171&KW=&PID=811763&title=tommy16-feedback#811763
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/25/2014 at 8:52am
Originally posted by beeray1 beeray1 wrote:

I always thought Oh Sang Eun's backhand was tops. That's my opinion, but it seemed so versatile and the changes in direction were so subtle. Not to mention his smoothness, his insane feeling, and power when it's wanted. He can play that bad boy off the table, too. 


For versatility and consistency, definitely. Takes advantage of his height too.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vvk1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/25/2014 at 8:54am
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by vvk1 vvk1 wrote:

The bh of any non-defender pro <span style="line-height: 16.7999992370605px;">from  top 100 </span>that uses the same grip as you is insanely great, and worthy of emulation. Heh, I'll take the BH of any top 100-200 player without a moment's hesitation, and blast off the table anyone who thinks my technique is not beauitiful.


I was going to make a similar point but some are better and more versatile than others and some are relative weaknesses and mostly block consistently.

Absolutely, it is all relative. If I were, let's put my "dream on" hat on, ranked in the middle of top 100 (like Liam Pitchford or Adrian Mattenet), I'd need to closely study anything the top 20 players to in order to get to top third. 

Also, I'd kill for the "mostly consistently blocking" BH of any of the top 200 pros as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote takethat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/25/2014 at 9:07am
Peter Korbel,simple,perfect control,able to go from blocking to counter with absolute ease.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote V-Griper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/25/2014 at 11:33am
Originally posted by slevin slevin wrote:

Let's do it this way.

Purely theoretical: assume you're young & have lots of training time. You want to change & hone your BH stroke based on a pro player's. Which player's stroke would you target.

For shake hands players ZJK/FZD without question for me. 

The main reason I would go with those is because of the relatively uncomplicated wrist motion (SH) afforded by their use of a BH biased grip. I think this allows for more versatility, stability and balance between pushing, looping, driving and blocking(active and passive).  The trade off of course is the grip change necessary to execute a good FH, but they seem to have resolved most of those issues in training.

 Wang Hao's BH has relatively closed blade angle and thus is inherently biased to spin/drive, and in my opinion is slightly better than SH BH in attack. However it's more difficult to block well and and BB SH BH has more reach with a less complicated wrist position. 

Ma Long- This would be second on my list. Basically the same as ZJK/FZD but less bias in the grip, which allows for quicker transition to his FH. 

Boll- I really really like his BH. So smooth and compact. Clean, efficient stroke mechanics as well with no undue wrist contortions. I would take the time to learn his as well. 

Dima- I think his wrist motion would be difficult to replicate easily, but no question about the power.  I think in terms of overall efficiency and relative ease of training FZD's BH is better. Just look at the German open final. No question that Dima's BH was faster but Fan controlled more of the points with his BH than Dima did. He had more directional control with his active block , as well as more spin and directional control on his flip and loop

So if I was starting from scratch I would go with ZJK/FZD as the model for my stroke given the time to train it thoroughly. Obviously there is only Wang Hao for PH players. 





Edited by V-Griper - 09/25/2014 at 12:57pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Argothman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/25/2014 at 12:04pm
I think what people often forget, and what makes ZJK/FZD so good, is that they're not actually looping every single ball. They block/counter hit/counter topspin most fast balls, and generally loop slightly farther from the table. This happens especially when they play other chinese players, the balls are coming too fast to consistently loop, so they opt for a smaller stroke that allows them to borrow power from the opponent and place the ball easily, making for a very effective shot. To see this watch FZD in the german open, he does that a lot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote geardaddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/25/2014 at 2:34pm
Originally posted by beeray1 beeray1 wrote:

I always thought Oh Sang Eun's backhand was tops. That's my opinion, but it seemed so versatile and the changes in direction were so subtle. Not to mention his smoothness, his insane feeling, and power when it's wanted. He can play that bad boy off the table, too. 

I was thinking the same about Oh San Eun.  His ability to be deceptive and move that ball to each corner on a block or counterdrive is exceptional.  I actually think that Vlad Samsonov has a lot of similiarities to Oh Sang Eun in this regard as well.  But Oh is not quite as consistent in initiating an attack with great power on the backhand as some of the best.

In general you've got to give credit to ML, ZJK, and FZD for their consistency and power on their backhand.  IMO, what really makes the CNT top guys the best in the world is their superior power.  It really shows against how they play choppers, and how they can just overpower other guys in BH to BH exchanges.  I would put Otcharov up there as one of the few non-CNT guys that can match their power on the BH.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote *_strataras_* Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/25/2014 at 3:43pm
Kreanga rules in this specific move in my opinion.He can hit the ball with backhand wherever the ball is!!!As i see your answers, I didn't expect to forget a really great player whose backhand is not "obvious" in his game, but it is one of the best in the world, his name...Werner Schlager!!!

Edited by *_strataras_* - 09/25/2014 at 4:17pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote assiduous Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/25/2014 at 3:58pm
ZJK BH # 1 in overall value. Too difficult to emulate without his damm legs and body. Perhaps too much spin which sacrifices power.

ML BH # 1 for textbook lesson. Super fkn clean. 

Chuang's BH is amazing, and his BH-FH-BH links are in my opinion the most fluid in the world. But he really needs better penetrating power, he's to damn soft. 

Boll, Ovtcharov and Maze have UGLY BHs that nobody should emulate. DO is completely sacrificing his FH, leaning his whole body to the left for BH comfort. That's just wrong. 

Mattenet is a clown who does not deserve to be mentioned. 

WH has BH that is not only # 1 in PH world, but top 2-3 in all fkn world, and at some point of history used to be the best BH period. 

I love Kreanga and his BH and personality, but much like Ovtcharov, he is leaning his whole body to favor BH, and then when he gets a FH he is severely twisting his body and end up with no power anyway. 

That's why ZJK has the best BH from total value perspective. Its not the best in penetration (DO is best) or blocking (many are better than him). But its close to perfect in everything, and everybody else has some weakness in the BH.


Edited by assiduous - 09/25/2014 at 3:59pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/25/2014 at 4:13pm
Yes, Schlager has one of the best backhands on TT history.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote *_strataras_* Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/25/2014 at 4:19pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_K9emcWR5U
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DreiZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/25/2014 at 4:57pm
Originally posted by assiduous assiduous wrote:

ZJK BH # 1 in overall value. Too difficult to emulate without his damm legs and body. Perhaps too much spin which sacrifices power.

ML BH # 1 for textbook lesson. Super fkn clean. 

Chuang's BH is amazing, and his BH-FH-BH links are in my opinion the most fluid in the world. But he really needs better penetrating power, he's to damn soft. 

Boll, Ovtcharov and Maze have UGLY BHs that nobody should emulate. DO is completely sacrificing his FH, leaning his whole body to the left for BH comfort. That's just wrong. 

Mattenet is a clown who does not deserve to be mentioned. 

WH has BH that is not only # 1 in PH world, but top 2-3 in all fkn world, and at some point of history used to be the best BH period. 

I love Kreanga and his BH and personality, but much like Ovtcharov, he is leaning his whole body to favor BH, and then when he gets a FH he is severely twisting his body and end up with no power anyway. 

That's why ZJK has the best BH from total value perspective. Its not the best in penetration (DO is best) or blocking (many are better than him). But its close to perfect in everything, and everybody else has some weakness in the BH.



Your opinion seems a bit biased towards the euro players. Many European coaches teach based on the technique of the top players and yes some of them have kinks that may not look pretty but they certainly work. i.e. I really dislike Kreanga's bh but it got him to a pretty high status in pro table tennis if you ask me. I do agree Ma Long has a textbook attacking BH but saying that noone should emulate the players' bh you listed above is absolutely absurd. Ovtcharov does NOT completely sacrifice his FH, he just receives many fh placed serves with his BH, which actually many Chinese players do the same. (There is a paper about that using ZJK as the subject of study). Ovtcharov also plays his strengths which happens to be his BH; same with CNT members which most have strong FHs and thus setup shots for their FH winners. Anyways, IMO new upcoming players, or ones that are trying to fix their technique should still be emulate any player they desire as long as it somewhat similar to the "textbook backhand". If you can be consistent even in the ugliest form possible and still get the same amount of speed/spin and reach a high level of TT, that just proves that if something works why fix it.

I just wanted to give another example of a great BH. Wang Liqin. Some say he has no BH, but I for one can argue that. His bh is mostly blocks and topspin drives but he plays it to setup his strength which is his FH. Now he is utilizing it to the most efficient way possible and clearly it worked wonders for him.

Point is you can emulate any form of FH or BH you like, as long as you are using it in the way which it plays to your strengths.

I for one would love to have Boll's BH, it's fluid as it can be (IMO). But being 6'3, I find myself somewhere closer to Samsonov's BH in terms of using it for blocks and drives.

Edited by DreiZ - 09/25/2014 at 4:58pm
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