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Why use an inverted rubber with very thin sponge?

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    Posted: 05/09/2015 at 10:44pm
What are the benefits of using a very thin sponge thickness on an inverted rubber, such as 1.0 - 1.5mm? What style of play is this best suited for, and which blade stiffness, hardness, and speed match best for very thin sponges?

I hadn't even noticed until recently that excellent rubbers such as Yasaka Mark V and Nittaku Hammond Pro Beta come in very thin sponges from 1.0-1.5mm. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asifgunz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/09/2015 at 11:13pm
Chopping. On the table play. To tame an uncontrollable blade. Perhaps slowly transitioning into hardbat.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote popperlocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/09/2015 at 11:13pm
Tons of control. Tremendous feeling, good for new players that lack feeling(help players with stiff/awkward/short strokes). Flat kills are so freaking easy. Learning to loop is very easy. Chopping is sooooo freaking easy.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/10/2015 at 4:23am
Some pips players who play with thin sponge on the BH want something that feels similar on the FH.  Inverted cannot be used in OX.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smackman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/10/2015 at 5:32am
It was normal to start learners with say 1.3 backhand and 1.5 forehand rubber (and 1.5-1.7) etc type combos
 I would even now prefer a much thinner backhand rubber if I used inverted
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APW46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/10/2015 at 2:03pm
Control ! Tenergy 05 is great if you use the 1.9 instead of 2.2.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tinykin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/11/2015 at 4:20am
Someone on here pointed out to me that the bats of the seventies generally did not exceed 1.5mm. I never noticed at the time.
When did the 2mm to max stuff became popular? Was there a rule change or something?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zhan2133 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/11/2015 at 2:49pm
Originally posted by APW46 APW46 wrote:

Control ! Tenergy 05 is great if you use the 1.9 instead of 2.2.


I don't think Tenergies have sponges thicker than 2.1, which is the max, at least for the commercial version.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clarence247 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/11/2015 at 7:29pm
Better control, better hitting (less spin sensitivity), better short game and chopping,  --- and one that most people do not mention - a thinner rubber brings out the feel of the blade more... for example with a Blade like the YEO which has a pronounced feel - you can get a very nice crisp feeling. 

Thinner rubber for BH is often a good idea. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanMcg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/11/2015 at 8:42pm
Thinner sponge is better for passive strokes, thicker sponge is better for active.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/12/2015 at 9:48am
Originally posted by Tinykin Tinykin wrote:

Someone on here pointed out to me that the bats of the seventies generally did not exceed 1.5mm. I never noticed at the time.
When did the 2mm to max stuff became popular? Was there a rule change or something?


I played then and always used 2.0 as did most people at least in the US but 1.5 was certainly more common than it is now and was the standard on ready made bats.  No rule change, but EJing did not exist at least where I lived.  People bought something and just played with it and didn't give a lot of thought to it.  I changed my Mark V once every 6 months.  I once tried Sriver, about the only other choice, and didn''t like it very much. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tinykin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/12/2015 at 3:53pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Originally posted by Tinykin Tinykin wrote:

Someone on here pointed out to me that the bats of the seventies generally did not exceed 1.5mm. I never noticed at the time.
When did the 2mm to max stuff became popular? Was there a rule change or something?


I played then and always used 2.0 as did most people at least in the US but 1.5 was certainly more common than it is now and was the standard on ready made bats.  No rule change, but EJing did not exist at least where I lived.  People bought something and just played with it and didn't give a lot of thought to it.  I changed my Mark V once every 6 months.  I once tried Sriver, about the only other choice, and didn''t like it very much. 

You actually changed your rubber???
Seriously, I kept my rubbers so long that I simply bought a new bat when the old one was too bad. I think I  only had 2 bats in the seventies, a Dunlop Barna sponge then was given a MarkV bat. It probably was a Stiga blade but we simply called them Yasaka bats.
I didn't play in the eighties/early nineties.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote frogger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/12/2015 at 7:27pm
Originally posted by Tinykin Tinykin wrote:

Someone on here pointed out to me that the bats of the seventies generally did not exceed 1.5mm. I never noticed at the time.
When did the 2mm to max stuff became popular? Was there a rule change or something?


Actually 2.5mm was max back then but with speed glue 2.0mm was plenty fast. Nowadays many manufacturers offer 2.1mm-2.3mm as max thickness due to new sponge technology. I used 2.5 Sriver (speed glued on old Power Drive). Fricken cannon lol.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote diedona Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/12/2015 at 10:17pm
I really am not sure about thickness versus control.

Sometimes i feel my vega europe 2mm is faster and less controlled because my forehand ends up being too strong in the contact and i feel the ball getting into the wood (would this be "bottoming out"?). Soft rubber, 2mm, easy to go through?

Maybe it's my fault on the technique.

But here's a video discussing differences between 2.2mm and 2.0mm in a chinese rubber, might be interesting...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote interact215 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/10/2015 at 12:08pm
Am I correct given an identical brand of rubber, pushing spinny serves should be easier/more forgiving with a thinner sponge thickness compared to a thicker sponge?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wilkinru Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/10/2015 at 3:53pm
most serves you need to push will only interact with the topsheet and not the sponge. in this case I don't think the sponge will matter any.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TT newbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/10/2015 at 4:29pm
I  knew a Jpen player who used to use a very thin Bryce on a Cypress S 9mm.
The guy simply didn´t miss a loop. His strokes were not very fast, ok, but to make a point on him you had to force him to mistake because he wouldn´t make unforced errors.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wturber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/10/2015 at 4:48pm
Originally posted by Tinykin Tinykin wrote:

Someone on here pointed out to me that the bats of the seventies generally did not exceed 1.5mm. I never noticed at the time.
When did the 2mm to max stuff became popular? Was there a rule change or something?

The oldest copy that I have of an ITTF T4 Technical Leaflet (Racket and Racket Covering) is from 1998 (I'd love to have older copies of the Technical Leaflets if anyone has them.).  The basics for covering thickness were the same then as now.  

For inverted the min pips height is .5mm.  The max sandwich thickness is 4.0mm.  So you can easily see how you could have 3.0mm sponge if the pips height is .5mm and the non-pips smooth inverted portion was also .5mm.  Whether that would play well or be durable is another thing.  But mechanically you could have 3.0mm or more sponge thickness and still meet ITTF spec.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/23/2022 at 11:14pm
Originally posted by IanMcg IanMcg wrote:

Thinner sponge is better for passive strokes, thicker sponge is better for active.

Agree with this the most.  

Control depends on what you are controlling.  If you are trying to control an extremely spinny loop coming at you, the best control to get it back is having a very spinny (usually thickest sponge) rubber to tame it into counter spin with the correct acute angle.  That's just one example of millions possible.

In less active (than aggresively looping the hell out of a low ball), medium drive sort of play a thin sponge is for sure great for controlling a rally.  A more open bat angle helps get the ball on the bat more often than swinging for a loop with a much more horizontal blade angle.  

I think noboy mentioned a lighter weight too.  

---

Reason I was searching on this older topic is I was considering what the benefits of a thin super soft sponge inverted rubber (for the reason of lightness) would be over using LP or SP (thicker sponge) with a thin sponge.  I know all of them fall into the low spin category but the inverted would be the most perplexing for your opponent.  Don't know many people who check your sponge thickness, but everyone wants to know if you got pips or not. 

 




Edited by bozbrisvegas - 07/23/2022 at 11:15pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/23/2022 at 11:51pm
FISTCUFF IN THE FACE.
Swift, FORCEFULL and no-spin attacks. One has a feel much similat to those in pugilistic fight.   Nice feel like delivering fistcuff in the face.
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