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Mizuno Q3/Q4/Q5/QQ/Q1 |
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pongfugrasshopper ![]() Premier Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 03/22/2015 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 3369 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 05/16/2023 at 10:47am |
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Thanks for the review. I have about a month or so left on my Tibhar MX-D, but the price and your review have convinced me to try Mizuno Q Quality.
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Zwill ![]() Super Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 11/10/2017 Location: Hungary Status: Offline Points: 165 |
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I recently bought 2 sheets from TT-Japan, and I have read on Japanese sites that maybe Mizuno/Sumitomo has changed the formula a little due to covid availability etc etc... So maybe 2022 rubbers are a bit different compared to 2023... I used Q5 before and loved it until it bubbled up after about 2 months. (in less than 150hours) 3 things I didn't fancy about Q5 were smell (like ash), weight (heavy, 53g cut), and price (TT11 60EUR). Now Q Quality elevates 4 of the 3 problems hopefully. It smells OK, it is below 50g on a slightly larger than Viscaria head, cheap as fruck (4200JPY that's 28-29EUR) and so far I have put in like 40-50 hours of play in them and they don't even have visible marks of use. (granted to me it seems the Revolution No 3 Rejuvenator does wonders on these rubbers of course this has nothing to do with bubbling up but no visible wear) I will compare attributes to Tenergy 05. Hardness: Let's get it out of the way. The black Q Quality is a bit harder, and the red is a bit softer. If I measure thier mass the black is ~49g, the red is ~47g. I have seen this with other rubbers too so it's fine. For me it means Q Quality black is FH and red is BH. I think Mizuno does this on purpose, however Tenergies are more consistent. Even the black is softer than a T05 and the red Q Quality is even softer. Top sheet strength: T05 and Q Quality topsheets feel very similar. Very stretchy, snappy, "bouncy", but T05 is more. T05 is more bouncy, more snappy, but I think Q Quality has a bit better grip. Both rubbers make a clicky or cracking sound if you hit the ball well, Q Quality makes it more consistantly and even on lighter strokes, so I would say Q Quality is easier to handle. Sponge: T05 feels a bit harder. Q Quality is softer but like Tenergy is more bouncy on low power shots and Q Quality is more bouncy if you hit very hard. I would say Q Quality is more like G-1 and is more linear while Tenergy is a bit on the opposite side. Saying the opposite is a bit of a stretch but their focus is different. Speed: T05 is faster on low impact and slower if you hit hard. Q Quality is the opposite. Arc: Q Quality can achieve T05 levels of high arc. No question about it. If you like T64 then you might not enjoy this one so much. Bite: Q Quality has better bite. It's better than G-1 and quite similar to Glayzer. Spin sensitivity: This is where T05 is a bit problematic. T05 is spin sensitive if you can't overwhelm your opponent spin. If you can overwhelm it then it's a very sharp tool. Q Quality is easier to use, for sure it's not as a sharp tool as T05 if you get your angles right, but you will get your angles right with Q Quality while with T05 less so often. 2nd and 3rd ball kill: I like the Q Quality for that, if you hit very hard it doesn't drop the ball so you can kind of play with it like with a H3 blue sponge. For sure you need adjustments but it can do it very consistently which you cannot say about many German made ESN rubbers. Serve receive, flicking: Q Quality owns T05. I think Tenergy works better on slower, soft blades and Q Quality works better on faster blades. If one has a fast and soft feeling blade Q Quality will be god tier. For me Q Quality topsheet is shinier than Q5, and seems more wear resistant but if it looks more used doesn't mean it performs more used. So I cannot judge Q5 was more worn, just looked more worn. From my memory, Q5 was a higher performing rubber but harder to utilize. Q Quality is a gentleman, it serves you the best champagne on a golden platter. It really is a slave rubber and the best kind. I miss Q5 in some regards, since it bubbled up on me I used many rubbers from D09c, Glayzers, Victas V20, V15, Nittaku G1, but I always remember Q5. And Q Quality kinda fills up my void. I have used Q Quality on a very hard and stiff blade, it's called Joola Zhou Qihao S-Alc 90 and it works very well, however I think the rubbers would be even better on an outer ZLC blade with koto top ply like Lin Yun Ju Super ZLC etc. If one is looking for the good old speed glue effect then look no further, Q Qualtiy is the best as it gets for now. It's availability is limited, but it's cheap and very high quality as the naming suggests. Edited by Zwill - 05/11/2023 at 7:01pm |
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Joola Zhou Qihao S-ALC 90
Mizuno Q Quality max Mizuno Q Quality max |
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Sedis ![]() Super Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 01/31/2015 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 210 |
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It's been a while since I used it, but from memory it was more like other Japanese rubbers such as Stiga Mantra. I wouldn't be surprised if the new Mantra Pro Medium is very close to it, but I haven't tried it yet to confirm. The top sheet is a little more 'matt' in appearance than Q5, but still very grippy. It actually seems to show marks a little more than Q5, however these do not seem to affect performance at all. I didn't use it for long enough to test the 'twice as durable as Q5' claim.
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shinshiro ![]() Super Member ![]() Joined: 09/21/2016 Location: Brazil Status: Offline Points: 243 |
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Hi Sedis Could you please compare Q Quality with others famous rubbers? Just to get a better idea how it plays. And what about durability, was it noticeably more than avarage? Thank you very much
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Sedis ![]() Super Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 01/31/2015 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 210 |
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Good spot
It's a shame about Q5, hopefully they come up with a replacement once the supply chain issues return to normal
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zeio ![]() Premier Member ![]() Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 9952 |
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Just noticed Mizuno has posted a notice regarding the availability of the Q series. Due to constant supply chain issues caused by Covid-19, they have to stop the sale of Q Quality temporarily and Q5 permanently. From the Internet Archive, the notice was already out in late 10/2022.
Q Quality - sale on hold until Spring 2023. Further delay possible. Q5 - to be discontinued after stock depletes. https://jpn.mizuno.com/tabletennis/information?pid=dics_tt_top ![]() Edited by zeio - 03/06/2023 at 2:05am |
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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Sedis ![]() Super Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 01/31/2015 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 210 |
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In a word - Yes I think it suits faster blades very well, as it a little slower than Q5. Very easy to use, good potential for spin, not too bouncy. I intend to try it on my main set up over the summer, assuming the availability improves
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Dream1700 ![]() Super Member ![]() Joined: 12/02/2017 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 410 |
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did you like Q Quality?
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Sedis ![]() Super Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 01/31/2015 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 210 |
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I've just put a sheet of Q Quality on a spare blade and had a quick go with it last night.
The sheet I have actually weighed roughly the same as the sheets of Q5 I have had (67g vs ≈68g) and measured the same hardness with my durometer (47° Shore O), however it does feel slightly softer in use. Initial impressions are positive, it is along similar lines to Q5, but a bit more linear and predictable. I found Q5 pretty durable, so if this genuinely twice as durable, it should last a very long time.
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Dream1700 ![]() Super Member ![]() Joined: 12/02/2017 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 410 |
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Yuya Oshima plays Q5 on both sides: purple sponge is visible during a recent game
Edited by Dream1700 - 01/24/2022 at 11:02pm |
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zeio ![]() Premier Member ![]() Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 9952 |
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Updated thread title to include Q Quality and Q1.
Q Quality is said to be lightweight, highly powerful, and highly durable(2 times more durable than Q5). Sponge hardness: 46 degrees. Q1 is marketed as the first step of high-tensioned rubber in the Q series, with high-dimension of speed and spin. Sponge hardness: 44 degrees. https://www.mizuno.jp/tabletennis/Q_series |
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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Dream1700 ![]() Super Member ![]() Joined: 12/02/2017 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 410 |
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To me Q5 is an upgrade to G-1. Identical feeling at ball contact probably because of hard top sheets. Q5 is slightly faster and produces lower curve. Q5 is less sensitive to the incoming spin. With Q5 it is easier to lift the ball from under the table.
I would say that those who like G-1 will like Q5 and may prefer Q5. But Q5 did not strike me as something out of this world - only a slight upgrade to G-1.
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Force Pro Special 7ply
FH: Fastarc C-1 1.4 BH: Tenergy 80 1.7 |
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Zwill ![]() Super Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 11/10/2017 Location: Hungary Status: Offline Points: 165 |
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So after another ~40 hours of play I have some sad news. The rubber developed a bubble. The rubber grip and sponge and everything is still fantastic, but Q5 just couldn't handle my chinese rubber "tuned" strokes. It could handle it in actual play but couldn't handle it with durability.
This is really sad, because in 2 months the rubber became kind of useless and it did during a league match actually. It's ok I managed to just ignore it and play well but occasionally the ball hit the bubbled spot. And it's a bit weird too since there is no visible bubble like on chinese rubbers, it's just the sound and feeling that changes when you hit that spot. (softer, clickier) I have to say I did give the rubber absolute hell but I did not expect it to bubble. If you don't use extreme force in your strokes I think it should be fine, but I am accustomed to H3 and similar chinese rubbers so I can't help it. Since my Rozena is getting about 350-400 hours of play already I have ordered D64 for BH and since now I have to use a H3N as backup on FH I've ordered D09c for FH. I really whish D09c can take my power on long term. I think for normal players Q5 will be fine for maybe even a year. The rubber has great mechanical grip, just like Rozena, and the sponge has no factory boosting and it kept the same performance in the tested 2 months. It is really a shame it can't handle my power.
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Joola Zhou Qihao S-ALC 90
Mizuno Q Quality max Mizuno Q Quality max |
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igorponger ![]() Premier Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 07/29/2006 Location: Everywhere Status: Offline Points: 3212 |
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Just from memory, Mizuno validity expire data is 31 September.
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Zwill ![]() Super Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 11/10/2017 Location: Hungary Status: Offline Points: 165 |
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So I have about good 40+ hours of play in my Q5. I still consider it fantastic. Very minor sings of wear and I've been giving it absolute punishment on my forehand. I'm coming off chinese style rubbers so my arm swing and everything is probably higher than if I was coming off of a springy rubber. I do apply revolution cleaner after every training and I put on a foil as well so not sure if these contribute to anything or not.
I honestly don't remember what I wrote previously and I don't even wanna read back to get bias, but here are some of the things I noticed during the past 40+ hours of play. It is really spin insensitive, blocking with it is really good. It has awesome bit though, so over the table countering is excellent, but racket angle needs to be closed or the ball will go long. It doesn't slip at all. The hardness is in between T05 and T05 hard. The spin capability is higher than T05 hard, so it is higher by T05 by a pretty significant margin. It has excellent bite too. D05 feels harder by a lot but the spin capability is only marginally better. In fact D05 feels kinda similar hardness as D09c, or is it my imagination? Spin capability is D05 is really good, D09c doesn't give that huge advantage... I digress, since I tried both D05 and D09c on others racket so take it with some salt. Actually I feel that with Q5 you can incorporate some chinese style loop kills fairly well but you can do under the table open ups with really good quality. But the serve handling with Q5 is such a joy. It's really easy to use and play with. Another interesting topic is that it doesn't get dusty. Like H3 or tacky rubbers get dusty just by looking at them. But Q5 is really good in this regard. You don't need to wipe it off like every point. I literally don't even care about it in a set. So the bad things are... It's heavy, still around 51-2g. Well it's a good thing too since it means it's not boosted. If it was boosted it would get lighter over time like ESN rubbers. The very edges of the rubber got some splits where there is no wood supporting it. So I guess the rubber sheet is a bit fragile but really only at the parts were there is no wood under it. On the actual play surface there are no such splits, in fact it looks very new. I may have been a bit harsh on T19 before. I think it is a good upgrade over Rozena. It has similar hardness and more speed, spin is similarish. The touch is very very close. Q5 is different ballpark tho and I will defend this. Q5 is between the Tenergy series and the Dignics series, and for lower than Tenergy prices it is really fantastic. So in case you are wondering about buying ESN (andro, Joola, Donic, Xiom, Gewo), Tenergy or Dignics or Mizuno Q series: you should forget about ESN, discard Tenergy, maybe consider Dignics. I am absolutely torn if I should get Q3 for my backhand as a Rozena upgrade or go with D80 or D64. I haven't tried Q3 nor D64 but it is a really hard choice to make and I really couldn't give a rats ass about the price of each. Nice little easter egg is that I use the Mizuno logo on the FH side to place my thumb on and during serve it gives me extra pressure on my thumb. That extra grip enables me to make better serves with better spin. |
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Joola Zhou Qihao S-ALC 90
Mizuno Q Quality max Mizuno Q Quality max |
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DonnOlsen ![]() Gold Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 11/15/2008 Location: Maryland, USA Status: Offline Points: 1751 |
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Thanks! |
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Tenergy: Two weeks of heaven, followed by three months of excellence, then, a nice rubber.
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ashishsharmaait ![]() Silver Member ![]() Joined: 02/27/2013 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 913 |
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Q5 is softer than both. The topsheet is grippy, and not tacky.
Throw angle is medium high, like Tenergy 80, lower the D09C. Its a good rubber when you compare the price to ESN latest gen like R53, etc. The quality however is not as good as Dignics series.
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DonnOlsen ![]() Gold Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 11/15/2008 Location: Maryland, USA Status: Offline Points: 1751 |
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Hi,
Much excellent information on Q5 here. Anyone have thoughts on its comparison to Dignics 09C and Yasaka RazkaZ Extra Hard? Thanks.
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Tenergy: Two weeks of heaven, followed by three months of excellence, then, a nice rubber.
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ashishsharmaait ![]() Silver Member ![]() Joined: 02/27/2013 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 913 |
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Having gone through 6 sheets of Q5, I would disagree with this assessment. It also depends on the playing level.
I have switched from H3N 39 (5 years), to Q5 (1.5 years) to T19. Q5 does not have a very high gear like H3N and it does not have a comfortable mid gear like T19. It plays between MX-P and MX-P 50 with slightly better topsheet grip. Compared to T19 or D80 for BH: 1. Not enough forward momentum for BH 2. Heavy 50-51g cut to BTY head, compared to 46-47g for T19 3. Too hard feeling 4. Not good for counters, flat hits and passive blocking For FH: 1. Only complaint is lack of high gear compared to H3N, T05 and D09C 2. A bit too bouncy in short game, less compared to Tenergy but more compared to Dignics 05, 80, or 09C The durability of the topsheet is quite poor and it loses grip after 80-100 hours of play. Tebergy and Dignics topsheets last a very long time, probably twice as much for Dignics and 1.5 times for Tenergy.
Edited by ashishsharmaait - 08/12/2021 at 4:13am |
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Zwill ![]() Super Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 11/10/2017 Location: Hungary Status: Offline Points: 165 |
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So today I received a black sheet of Q5 from TT11. I've been super excited about it, as I've read through the development blog it sounded like an absolute great rubber. I tried to also watch and understand several japanese vloggers opinion on youtube, and all of them were extremely positively surprised by Q5.
So normally I play with chinese style rubber on my forehand and rozena or Mantra H on my backhand, I actually prefer Rozena due to being more lively. My blade is a Joola Vyzaryz Trinity which I love since it has good speed for slow chinese rubbers has an excellent handle and good control and spin too. So switching from 729 battle 2 gold and Tibhar K2 to Mizuno Q5 was a pretty big deal. Tibhar K2 is really fast, sticky and has a hard sponge (54deg). 729 Battle 2 has a 40 deg sponge (I would rate it around 50 deg, or maybe even a bit lower on Shore C), with sticky topsheet, but it is slow. I like chinese and hybrid rubbers because they don't drop the ball on loopkill and they are easy to use for over the table forehand flicks, and of course you can keep the ball low with them if you decide to just push a serve return. (and they are on the light side too) I am a power player, I loop kill if possible, and push if not possible, occasionally I do a semi-acceptable loop. I don't put too much faith in loops since they can be countered hard and then I have serious issues. Anyway hybrid rubbers like Tibhar K2 in my opinion are excellent for current game (FH), fast, aggressive, controllable etc etc. And I say this while I really despise ESN manufactured rubbers. Okay back to topic about the Q5... I glued it on with 2 generous layers of DHS No 15 glue on the sponge, and 1 layer on the blade. I will start with the detriment... It was 55g cut to the Joola Trinity blade with some edge remaining. That is heavy... Detriments end here unless we count the charcoal smell of the rubber. (not booster, just I guess the manufacturing process makes it like this) On positive note this rubber is absolutely polite. It is a gentleman, so easy to use. Super good grip and spin, the sponge is perfectly hardened and bounces really efficiently aka fast, it might be actually faster than MX-P, bit it is so polite, it gives you so much holding feeling that you can control everything. I never had the feeling where the rubber is taking over my shot when I didn't need it to, and when I needed the power it just gave it to me. Granted I only have like 150 minutes of playtime in it but I absolutely love it. Pushes are really low and consistent, I never once pushed up a high ball even after using chinese rubbers before. I can almost do the same loop kill as with chinese rubbers, maybe I need to pull up a big higher to clear the net. In this aspect I guess it's weaker than K2, but on other aspects it's so much more usable. Spinny opening loops are far superior to K3 or Battle 2. Counter loops are fantastic, the grip is great, the ball never slips. Speed is even better, control is fantastic. I tried one of my teammates T19 and in hindsight I would cry blood if I purchased T19 instead of Q5. The sponge has so much hold that it would be very suitable for backhand too. I think with fewer layers of glue, the weight could be reduced to 51-2g. And then it could be a serious contender for both FH and BH, and as far as I understand Q3 should be lighter and even faster. Honestly if I had 2 T19 on my racket I would burn them for 1 sheet of Q5... It's really so much better. Super kudos to Mizuno and Sumitomo for designing and manufacturing such an excellent rubber. If the durability is good (which I read is pretty darn excellent too) the 60 EUR price tag should not scare anyone away. ESN rubbers for 40-60EUR have absolutely no chance to compete. K2 is awesome, especially for 26USD from prott, but I wouldn't even take a glance at it in the shade of Q5 for 60EUR. Tenergy? Dignics? Nope. Rozena? For 33USD??? Difficult choice. For BH I think Rozena is good, but I'd take Q5 any day. I would actually try Q3 which has lower weight. Sorry for my usual long rant. Hope you found it educational. |
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Joola Zhou Qihao S-ALC 90
Mizuno Q Quality max Mizuno Q Quality max |
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Sedis ![]() Super Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 01/31/2015 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 210 |
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Sorry I can't do a direct comparison as I haven't tried R47. The nearest thing I have used (briefly) is Joola Rhyzer 48. I don't know about Q3 or Q4, but if you are coming from another ESN rubber, then I am pretty sure you would not find Q5 easier to use, at least initially. That said, once you have adjusted, I wouldn't say it is harder to use than any other high end, fast rubber, it is just a little different. I have tried Q5 on a Nittaku S-CZ and a DHS H301 and thought it was better suited to the H301.
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Dream1700 ![]() Super Member ![]() Joined: 12/02/2017 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 410 |
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are any of these (Q3, Q4, Q5) easier to use than R47?
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GeneralSpecific ![]() Platinum Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 03/01/2010 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 2798 |
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I tried Q5 yesterday. It's a great rubber. It has a high throw angle and it can attack serves and backspin very well. It has good grip and this allows it to loop the ball late and low to the ground very well. The speed is good and can counterloop well at longer distances
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Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL
Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge |
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Sedis ![]() Super Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 01/31/2015 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 210 |
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A bit more information regarding durablity.
I would estimate I have used the rubbers for about 30 hours now, so far they are showing no signs of any wear from the ball at all. Normally by now, I would expect some marks where my finger/thumb makes contact with the rubber, but there are no marks on the black rubber, although the red one has discoloured slightly where my finger rests, which is not something I have had happen before. The rubber is also susceptible to chipping, as I have managed to take a couple of small chunks out of the edges, from what I thought were quite minor contacts with the table. Generally, it looks like the durability will be pretty good.
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Sedis ![]() Super Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 01/31/2015 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 210 |
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After a longer than normal adjustment period, I am now gettng on really well with the Q5. It works really well with fast compact strokes, producing a lot of spin, making it especially suited for my backhand.
I normally use something a bit softer, but this is not an issue, although I would be interested if they bring out slightly softer sponged versions. I am also getting on much better with it on my forehand, but I am keen to try the Q4 on this side as I think the pimple structure might be better suited to this. Since the Q5 apparently has an improved sponge, I wonder if they will bring out updated versions of Q3 and Q4 so the only difference is the pimple structure. |
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GeneralSpecific ![]() Platinum Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 03/01/2010 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 2798 |
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While I can't say it smells like any specific booster I'm aware of, Q5 has a very pungent odor for the first 48 hours outside of the package. I would describe it as a cross between beef jerky and burning tires. Overall, not a pleasant scent. The good news is that by now, I really need to put the rubber right up to my face to detect any smell.
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Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL
Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge |
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Kolev ![]() Gold Member ![]() Joined: 10/04/2004 Location: Belgium Status: Offline Points: 1523 |
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Thanks. Recently I find myself asking this question quite a bit more than usual. Not that I hate boosters, but more the fact that I definitely feel decrease of performance in heavily factory boosted rubbers like MX-P, Rhyzer 48, Z1, Vega Japan and few more. All those having a very strong odour. I can't say the same about Mantra , Omega 4, 7 Pro and Asia or a Tenergy
Edited by Kolev - 06/06/2019 at 3:09am |
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Hallmark Carbon Extreme (x4)
FH: H3NProv/H3Nat BS BH: D05/Ω7Pro |
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Sedis ![]() Super Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 01/31/2015 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 210 |
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Not that I noticed. Certainly not a strong smell.
Edited by Sedis - 06/06/2019 at 3:13am |
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Kolev ![]() Gold Member ![]() Joined: 10/04/2004 Location: Belgium Status: Offline Points: 1523 |
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Any smell of a booster?
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Hallmark Carbon Extreme (x4)
FH: H3NProv/H3Nat BS BH: D05/Ω7Pro |
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Thot ![]() Silver Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 10/07/2007 Location: faraway Status: Offline Points: 617 |
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Let us know how it is after a week or two of training and playing with it. I was tempted by the tt11 offer, but I don't want something faster, just spinier, maybe I'll try Q4. Thanks for the review.
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