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2018 German Open. 3-20 to 3-25.

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    Posted: 01/25/2018 at 11:38am
China submitted its list of players for the German Open.
8 men, Ma Long will play this one.
12 women, no Ding Ning no Liu Shiwen. (Hard for these two players to get back to the top.)


Edited by skip3119 - 01/25/2018 at 11:40am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skip3119 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/25/2018 at 11:53am
Sun Yingsha is in both Qatar and German Open.
She played 4 events already.  After these two, she will have played 6.

Two more events to play to make it 8, she will get back to her proper ranking.


Edited by skip3119 - 01/25/2018 at 11:54am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VladCeller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/25/2018 at 12:01pm
And will ITTF allow participation of so many declared Chinese players?
There will not be a limit like in Hungary?
The rating after all it is necessary to lift not only Manyu, Yingsha, Xintong, but also Ding Ning, Liu Shiven ....

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skip3119 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/25/2018 at 12:12pm
ITTF started enforcing the limit of 6 players per gender per Association.
Higher ranked player gets the priority, lower ranked player gets on to the WL (waiting list.)

When a player is on the WL, the player has little chance to play.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VladCeller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/25/2018 at 12:18pm
Oh yes....Disapprove
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stef Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/25/2018 at 12:40pm
CNT selected players:

Men's Singles (8): Fan Zhendong, Fang Bo, Ma Long, Wang Chuqin, Xu Xin, Xue Fei, Yu Ziyang and Zhou Kai.

U21 Men (2): Xue Fei and Yu Ziyang.

Men's Doubles (3): Ma Long/Xu Xin, Fan Zhendong/Yu Ziyang and Wang Chuqin/Xue Fei.


Women's Singles (12): Chen Xingtong, Fan Siqi, Feng Yalan, Guo Yuhan, Li Jiayi, Mu Zi, Sun Mingyang, Sun Yingsha, Wang Manyu, Wen Jia, Wu Yang and Zhang Qiang.

U21 Women (2): Guo Yuhan and Sun Mingyang.

Women's Doubles (3): Feng Yalan/Mu Zi, Li Jiayi/Wen Jia and Sun Mingyang/Zhang Qiang.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VladCeller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/25/2018 at 12:50pm
I wonder ... Will 12 Chinese women in WS ?
Japan in Qatar said only 8 women ..... of them two in the U-21

Edited by VladCeller - 01/25/2018 at 12:54pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/25/2018 at 1:13pm
Originally posted by skip3119 skip3119 wrote:

ITTF started enforcing the limit of 6 players per gender per Association.
Higher ranked player gets the priority, lower ranked player gets on to the WL (waiting list.)

When a player is on the WL, the player has little chance to play.

They have always enforced that rule. It's just that no one played the less coveted stops of the World Tour that led to tons of extra spots left.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/25/2018 at 1:17pm
Originally posted by VladCeller VladCeller wrote:

I wonder ... Will 12 Chinese women in WS ?
<span id="result_" ="" lang="en"><span ="">Japan in Qatar said only 8 women ..... of them two in the U-21</span></span>

Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skip3119 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/25/2018 at 1:39pm
zeio:

If you will take a look of 2017 German Open, Japan had far more than 6 players played in women singles.  It was held Nov 7 - Nov 12, 2017. (Information is still available.)

Same happened in 2017 Australian Open, but ITTF made that information unavailable now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VladCeller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/25/2018 at 1:39pm
Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skip3119 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/25/2018 at 1:45pm
Originally posted by VladCeller VladCeller wrote:

Smile
=============
zeio knows everything under the sun about TT.  But he got that wrong, and I proved it.



Edited by skip3119 - 01/25/2018 at 1:48pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/25/2018 at 2:29pm


The quota of 6 per association other than the host was in effect as stated in the prospectus.

They had only 265 players(157 M, 108 F) entered with a limit of 230. Do me a favor and count how many associations sent players in the single digit only.

Thank god the girls on Hupu made a copy of the entry list:

13 out of 19 of them were on the waiting list, until the deadline on 10/8.


Edited by zeio - 01/25/2018 at 2:35pm
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/25/2018 at 9:24pm
Although the prospectus for the 2017 German Open does state a max. of 6 players per association per gender, if you look at the results you can see that more than that actually played.  The results page for the Japanese women's singles:



In short:

Main Draw

ISHIKAWA Kasumi
HIRANO Miu
NAGASAKI Miyu (via Qualification)
HAYATA Hina
ITO Mima
HASHIMOTO Honoka
SATO Hitomi


Qualification

NAGASAKI Miyu (advanced to Main Draw)
KATO Miyu
KIHARA Miyuu
MORI Sakura
HAMAMOTO Yui
SUZUKI Rika
SHIBATA Saki
MORIZONO Mizuki
SHIOMI Maki
MORIZONO Misaki
ANDO Minami
MAEDA Miyu
KATO Kyoka

All 19 Japanese women
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skip3119 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/25/2018 at 10:50pm

Pongfugrassshopper:
Thank you very much for helping to prove that zeio is wrong.
===================================

zeio:

Don't keep saying that prospectus says, "limiting 6 players" - everybody knows that.
The prospectus of ALL world tours, all of them say the max is 6 players/gender/association.
No one argues with you about that.
When you are wrong, just admit it like a man. (No big deal anyway.)
Don't try to wiggle your way out.

This is what you are wrong"You did not know that ITTF has never enforced that."
The 2017 German Open, the records happen to be still available - that proved you were wrong.

Lots of World Tours (previously known as Pro Tours) Japan sent far more than 6 female players, and all of them got to play.  Unfortunately, those records are no longer available.

Japan is well known for sending "a plane load of players" to many world tours/Pro Tours.



Edited by skip3119 - 01/25/2018 at 11:54pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/26/2018 at 1:14am
Yes, I got it all wrong. I'm a dumbass. I'm retarded. What am I smoking?
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skip3119 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/26/2018 at 2:14am
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Yes, I got it all wrong. I'm a dumbass. I'm retarded. What am I smoking?
==================

zeio:

Man, your are my hero. Frankly, you know about TT 10 times more than I do.
Should you visit the US and pass through North Carolina, please shoot me an email.
You can stay in my house, I'll take you out for dinner, 3 days in a row.
We can also play some TT in our club too.

Skip.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/26/2018 at 7:18am
I will pass. I fear my humanity will be lost.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/26/2018 at 8:36am
Zeio's point, which is being repeatedly missed, is that the max per association has always been in effect.  It is only ENFORCED when the tournament entries are maxed out.  There is practically no difference in how this rule was enforced in the past and how it is enforced today.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZingyDNA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/26/2018 at 9:38am
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Zeio's point, which is being repeatedly missed, is that the max per association has always been in effect.  It is only ENFORCED when the tournament entries are maxed out.  There is practically no difference in how this rule was enforced in the past and how it is enforced today.


So both are right. It was almost never enforced (skip's point) due to the limited number of entries but always in effect (zeio's point). I think skip's point is more important here as that's the practical usage of the rule. Just like a speed limit of 100 mph would be pointless 100 years ago as no car was that fast, even though it could be in effect.

ITTF is pretty clever to make new ranking rules that use existing rules to make the most effects. I wish they could use their smarts to develop the sport from the bottom up, like investing in school programs, building TT facilities, developing more coaches etc., instead of keeping changing things at the pro level.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/26/2018 at 10:01am
They were always enforced until the entry deadline. Any extra players beyond your given quota go on the waiting list, until the deadline when there are spots left will those players be accepted, which was almost always the case.

This has always been how they handle it. It's just that people never paid attention. It's not like they have decided to enforce it out of the blue.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZingyDNA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/26/2018 at 10:20am
You can go on and on about the technicality of deadlines and waiting lists, but the fact is extra players were almost always accepted. The 6-max rule didn't come into full force until the new ranking system.

Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

They were always enforced until the entry deadline. Any extra players beyond your given quota go on the waiting list, until the deadline when there are spots left will those players be accepted, which was almost always the case.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VladCeller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/26/2018 at 10:59am
Originally posted by ZingyDNA ZingyDNA wrote:

You can go on and on about the technicality of deadlines and waiting lists, but the fact is extra players were almost always accepted. The 6-max rule didn't come into full force until the new ranking system.

Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

They were always enforced until the entry deadline. Any extra players beyond your given quota go on the waiting list, until the deadline when there are spots left will those players be accepted, which was almost always the case.



Do you think in Qatar, for example, players over the limit will not be allowed?
Or is there no way to give an exact answer before Qatar's discovery?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skip3119 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/26/2018 at 11:05am
Originally posted by ZingyDNA ZingyDNA wrote:

You can go on and on about the technicality of deadlines and waiting lists, but the fact is extra players were almost always accepted. The 6-max rule didn't come into full force until the new ranking system.
===================

Correct.

zeio lucked out because "all past tournaments' records are no longer accessible." Otherwise, he can be proven wrong beyond any doubt.  There were Pro Tours/World Tours with huge entries, every player on the WL got to play.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/26/2018 at 11:27am
Not getting into the technicality is the very reason people with preconceived mindsets blame the ITTF for the ranking reform, when it was the Athletes' Commission.

Not getting into the technicality is the very reason we are taking part in this fruitless argument.

How much technicality was there when those very people taking part in this argument questioned my assessment?
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VladCeller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/26/2018 at 11:44am
Curiously, the Japanese sent a team to Qatar within the assumed limit .....
Unfortunately, there is no information about the team that the Japanese will send to Bremen ....
If for men there will be a maximum of 6 + 2, and for women - the same, then the Japanese know something ...Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZingyDNA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/26/2018 at 11:53am
Who organizes the Athlete's Commission, approves and enforces the new system from the AC? Getting into too much technicality is why we're having this argument.

And what kind of technicality was in your link there? I was agreeing with you, man

Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Not getting into the technicality is the very reason people with preconceived mindsets blame the ITTF for the ranking reform, when it was the Athletes' Commission.

Not getting into the technicality is the very reason we are taking part in this fruitless argument.

How much technicality was there when those very people taking part in this argument questioned my assessment?
   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/26/2018 at 12:47pm
So here's what I'm somewhat at odds with.  Take, for example, the top 8 Chinese according to WR:

Country        Player (ITTF ID)        Position Previous position   Points

CHINA        CHEN Meng (112019)        1        2                   16845
CHINA        ZHU Yuling (117332)       2        1                   16185
CHINA        WANG Manyu (121411)       8        8                   11688
CHINA        CHEN Xingtong (121403)    10       10                  11472
CHINA        GU Yuting (115760)        15       17                  10596
CHINA        DING Ning (102265)        21       3                   9630
CHINA        LIU Shiwen (105482)       24       4                   9365
CHINA        SUN Yingsha (131163)      52       7                   6075

Results do not include 2018 Hungarian Open.  So let's say there's a platinum event that China wishes it's best players to attend.  According to current ranking, if they all entered and the 6 player limit were enforced, both Liu Shiwen and Sun Yingsha would have to stay home.  Liu Shiwen, who up until the new ranking system was in place, has been a perennial top 5 player.  Sun Yingsha last year made perhaps the most exciting rise to the top in women's table tennis.  Part of the change to the new system was to get the best players to actively participate. That's what sponsors want, and that makes sense.  However, the 6 player per association per gender limit is at odds with this.  The above players are 8 of the best players  in the world (though I think Gu Yuting is perhaps just a level below the others).  I don't know what the right answer is because China and Japan dominate women's table tennis, but it seems to me a shame for any of the above players to be cut off by the 6 player limit.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VladCeller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/26/2018 at 1:29pm
I realized that, in fact, we will find out whether there will be a limit, only in March, before   of Qatar OpenEmbarrassed ... ....

WANG Manyu nr.5 in 2/2018....But in March, it's likely that Ito will rise above her ..
Manyu has more deduction for February 2017 ...


Edited by VladCeller - 01/26/2018 at 1:35pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/26/2018 at 2:40pm
Originally posted by ZingyDNA ZingyDNA wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Zeio's point, which is being repeatedly missed, is that the max per association has always been in effect.  It is only ENFORCED when the tournament entries are maxed out.  There is practically no difference in how this rule was enforced in the past and how it is enforced today.


So both are right. It was almost never enforced (skip's point) due to the limited number of entries but always in effect (zeio's point). I think skip's point is more important here as that's the practical usage of the rule. Just like a speed limit of 100 mph would be pointless 100 years ago as no car was that fast, even though it could be in effect.

ITTF is pretty clever to make new ranking rules that use existing rules to make the most effects. I wish they could use their smarts to develop the sport from the bottom up, like investing in school programs, building TT facilities, developing more coaches etc., instead of keeping changing things at the pro level.

Huh?

Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

I will pass. I fear my humanity will be lost.

Ah did the best ah culd...


Edited by NextLevel - 01/26/2018 at 2:41pm
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