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Dangers of waist rotation

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stiltt View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/22/2020 at 11:47pm
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

@stilltt, 

+1
Basically there needs to be weight transfer from right to left, and the feet and knees need to be free to allow the hip to rotate, which then transfers the rotational momentum to the upper body. I don't think the legs straightens that much (only by a bit for that upwards momentum against underspin but that's about it). 

I think there's also a lot to be talked about hip mobility. A lot of times with strength training we are way too quad dominant and neglect the glutes and the hip adductors. I've recently been trying to correct these imbalances as well with lunges, split squats, single leg reverse planks, resistance band side shuffles....I feel like my knees are a lot more stable since I've started training these neglected muscles. 

Now that I have a better understanding of the musculature, I'm finding that balance is so so important. Some injuries are caused by muscular imbalances, where you're too strong in one set of muscles and too weak in the opposing set of muscles. The muscles are attached to the joints so it makes sense that you preferably want the opposing muscles to be balanced so that the joints don't get pulled out of position by the stronger muscle. 
Of course. Earlier in the thread we talked about the "hip jerk" that is in my opinion (and everybody else's I think), the little guy yet the most important factor in the stroke; keeping in mind the topic title and wanting best efficiency, we see that jumping from both feet make the hips axis follow the waist rotation. The angle between the love handles axis and the hips axis Big smile is always under the dangerous zone, the feet axis is more parallel to the table when the swing is achieved, there is no need for the waist to rotate further because the ball is already gone and the playing "hip jerk" happened safely. The recovery from there contains a formidable potential power for a devastating bh while an imaginary super jump to fh backswing setup is necessary if the ball goes there instead (the whole circle moves  towards the fh corner while jumping), even great players do it in 2 small circles steps, 8-2 / 3-3 / 10-4 kinda, it's harder, unless the block comes in the actual power zone, then one jump is enough.
I like to think about what to do now with the recovery from that secure and efficient fh. I hope people will promote what I think is the right way to teach the fh loop: jump from both feet and there is a road to success that is at least as good as any other school.
The memory of Fan Yiyong training hard for the US Nationals inspired me to understand a safe and strong fh, and his bh was so devastating!


Edited by stiltt - 12/23/2020 at 12:29am
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zeio View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/23/2020 at 10:19am
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Tbh, zeio was the first one in this forum to explain it, but all of us ignored him including me...Confused Guess if the truth was too hard to take, us human  beings will tend to just close our ears and ignore it. Credit to zeio for bringing up the issue. 

I'll be the second believer, and I'm gonna take a week or two hiatus to focus on shadow practice to unlearn the waist rotation from my techniques. Thanks zeio and sorry for ignoring your posts the first time around!

Zeio's posts are here:


Harimoto has had lower back pain during his 14-day quarantine after returning from China in late November. Been waiting for more in-depth reports but no luck. Not sure if it's related to his FH as I pointed out but posting this for future reference.

https://www.daily.co.jp/general/2020/12/06/0013917433.shtml
https://www.daily.co.jp/general/2020/12/24/0013960879.shtml
https://article.auone.jp/detail/1/6/12/17_12_r_20201224_1608762901916662

Edited by zeio - 12/24/2020 at 6:35am
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/23/2020 at 10:43am
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Tbh, zeio was the first one in this forum to explain it, but all of us ignored him including me...Confused Guess if the truth was too hard to take, us human  beings will tend to just close our ears and ignore it. Credit to zeio for bringing up the issue. 

I'll be the second believer, and I'm gonna take a week or two hiatus to focus on shadow practice to unlearn the waist rotation from my techniques. Thanks zeio and sorry for ignoring your posts the first time around!

Zeio's posts are here:


Harimoto has had lower back pain during his 14-day quarantine after returning from China in late November. Been waiting for more in-depth reports but no luck. Not sure if it's related to his FH as I pointed out but posting this for future reference.

https://www.daily.co.jp/general/2020/12/06/0013917433.shtml

Last time I ve seen him warming up,his body mechanics were so akward not fluent ,no weight transfer.


Edited by stiltt - 12/24/2020 at 5:48am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/23/2020 at 11:00am
Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Tbh, zeio was the first one in this forum to explain it, but all of us ignored him including me...Confused Guess if the truth was too hard to take, us human  beings will tend to just close our ears and ignore it. Credit to zeio for bringing up the issue. 

I'll be the second believer, and I'm gonna take a week or two hiatus to focus on shadow practice to unlearn the waist rotation from my techniques. Thanks zeio and sorry for ignoring your posts the first time around!

Zeio's posts are here:


Harimoto has had lower back pain during his 14-day quarantine after returning from China in late November. Been waiting for more in-depth reports but no luck. Not sure if it's related to his FH as I pointed out but posting this for future reference.

https://www.daily.co.jp/general/2020/12/06/0013917433.shtml

Last time I ve seen him warming up,his body mechanics were so akward not fluent ,no weight transfer.

There is no pro in the top 100 that doesn't use weight transfer, you simply do not get to that level without those basics


Edited by stiltt - 12/24/2020 at 5:49am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/23/2020 at 11:02am
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Tbh, zeio was the first one in this forum to explain it, but all of us ignored him including me...Confused Guess if the truth was too hard to take, us human  beings will tend to just close our ears and ignore it. Credit to zeio for bringing up the issue. 

I'll be the second believer, and I'm gonna take a week or two hiatus to focus on shadow practice to unlearn the waist rotation from my techniques. Thanks zeio and sorry for ignoring your posts the first time around!

Zeio's posts are here:


Harimoto has had lower back pain during his 14-day quarantine after returning from China in late November. Been waiting for more in-depth reports but no luck. Not sure if it's related to his FH as I pointed out but posting this for future reference.

https://www.daily.co.jp/general/2020/12/06/0013917433.shtml

I think it had something to do with his new FH movement, he cut down a lot of the movement that was in his previous FH, including the very helpful feet rotation. I was watching his recent matches and more often than not his right foot is no longer perpendicular to the hitting direction during the backswing.


Edited by stiltt - 12/24/2020 at 5:49am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tt Gold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/23/2020 at 1:18pm
It’s impossible to say for certain what the cause for his back pain is. There are so many things that he does, which we don’t get to see.
Yes, it could be his new technique.

Could also be his old technique, which in my opinion looks more unhealthy then his current one, that has caught up after all those years. 

Or a lack in physical fitness (lack of stability and muscle development) for what his body needs to endure during his sessions.

Maybe something off table strength exercises that he did incorrectly or were just generally harmful.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/23/2020 at 5:01pm
Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

It’s impossible to say for certain what the cause for his back pain is. There are so many things that he does, which we don’t get to see.
Yes, it could be his new technique.

Could also be his old technique, which in my opinion looks more unhealthy then his current one, that has caught up after all those years. 

Or a lack in physical fitness (lack of stability and muscle development) for what his body needs to endure during his sessions.

Maybe something off table strength exercises that he did incorrectly or were just generally harmful.


Yeah hard to say for sure, there's 101 reasons why one can have lower back pain. It's just pure speculation...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/24/2020 at 5:56am
A wrong link was being pushed again and again so I went back and edited. If you see "Edited by stiltt" at the end of your post, it was only to replace

per post 


Edited by stiltt - 12/24/2020 at 5:56am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/24/2020 at 6:33am
Updated the previous post with the latest news on Harimoto's first win in T.League 2020-2021 while recovering from his lower back pain.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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stiltt View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/24/2020 at 7:58am
This is so scary, I hope the news are only the result of over cautious coaches and that what happens to him is just the normal stuff that all athletes can experience, they deal with it and it does not threaten their career and goals.
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