Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET Homepage
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Barefoot shoes
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login
tabletennis11.com

Barefoot shoes

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123>
Author
blahness View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/18/2009
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 2638
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/24/2019 at 6:13pm
Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

I don't really want to read through the whole thread, but if you want to know something specific, feel free to ask.

Tbh, since I already ordered those shoes and am going to try them for a while performance probably doesn't matter already. What I'm more interested in is the effects of barefoot running on foot health and injuries...
-------
Tacky rubber lover :)

Stiga Clipper CR

FH: Hurricane 8
BH: Hurricane 3 Neo
Back to Top
Ieyasu View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 07/18/2015
Location: DPR Kalifornia
Status: Offline
Points: 134
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ieyasu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/24/2019 at 6:32pm
Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

volleyball shoes often comes back as the best kind for the tt player wanting better support for the heel, a classic!
That's what I use... no choice... as far as I know there are no tt shoes my size.
Back to Top
Ieyasu View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 07/18/2015
Location: DPR Kalifornia
Status: Offline
Points: 134
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ieyasu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/24/2019 at 6:54pm
Originally posted by Kolev Kolev wrote:

..but since the plantar hit me (thank you Mizuno Wave Medal 5) I am very confused what to wear. It stays too long, almost an year. During that year i play only with very cushioned badminton shoes+insoles

I don't know whether the following will help you since PF and its causes are several and everybody is different of course, but in the unlikely chance this helps you I'll post this info.

I had PF for 4-5 months in my right foot. Due to a different condition in my left foot, I did not play tt for 3 months.Ouch   Even though I performed calf stretches, religiously (at least once a day), and rested the foot, there was no change in my PF. (The calf muscles got pretty loose.)

However, one day I tried Exercise #1 in this video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7W4s5TbUpQ . Unbelievably after doing a set of that exercise, for the first time, the PF pain was reduced by at least 85%. 

Shortly thereafter I received custom orthotics  for the other condition and that reduced my PF by at least a further 10%. So what I'm left with is extremely minor PF discomfort after playing tt.

Also, you mentioned you're confused about what to wear. Usually PF afflicted heels needs VERY firm/rigid support with a thin layer of cushioning on top.

I would see a foot doctor if I were you. For me custom orthotics are way superior to the store bought stuff, if for no other reason than my arch is in a different position than the store bought ones, plus the quality is way better. It's not cheap, but for me it was definitely worth it.

Regardless.... good luck with your PF!

After reading your post again... it appears your PF is  gone. But I'll leave this post here in case it helps somebody else.


Edited by Ieyasu - 03/24/2019 at 6:57pm
Back to Top
Tt Gold View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/22/2014
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 1091
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tt Gold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/24/2019 at 7:05pm
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

I don't really want to read through the whole thread, but if you want to know something specific, feel free to ask.

Tbh, since I already ordered those shoes and am going to try them for a while performance probably doesn't matter already. What I'm more interested in is the effects of barefoot running on foot health and injuries...
There is still a debate going on whether barefoot running is better compared to shod running from a injury risk standpoint. Studies show no differences in injury rates between shod and barefoot running. They have the same rates, but different injury types. People running shod have more injuries in the legs, like knee injuries. Barefoot runners have higher risks of injury in the foot.

 So I dug in deeper to see where those differences come from. The most reasonable explanation is that barefoot runners are very likely to run on the forefoot rather than on the heels. The problem with this is that whilst a forefoot strike pattern is more healthy in shoes compared to running on heels in shoes, forefoot striking is different in barefoot running, thus it's not really possible to draw the conclusion that forefoot striking=less injuries and barefoot running=forefoot striking thus barefoot running=less injuries.

 But at the end of my research I came to the conclusion that barefoot running is more healthy. Reason for that is that the injuries that occur in barefoot running are foot injuries. These foot injuries most of the time happen because the foot isn't prepared to run barefoot yet. If there's enough time spend on the transition period, the injury rate of barefoot running would go down, making it the better option.

I'm not sure if this is really relevant to table tennis though. In table tennis you are, or at least you should, always be on the ball of your foot. And your also never really in this stiff leg position that you're in when you're running, so all the negatives of using shoes are eliminated. And I think having cushioning will definitely help to reduce injuries in table tennis. Your feet would really take a toll if you used minimalistic shoes when running across the table and suddenly have to stop because you're about to run into something. But I also think that playing "barefoot" might have positive effect on footwork, whether it is real or just placebo.


Back to Top
fatt View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 07/15/2007
Location: Northwest USA
Status: Offline
Points: 15750
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/24/2019 at 7:34pm
A while ago, a university teacher in Boston was nicknamed the barefoot doctor because he jogs barefoot. He says there is no way our ancestors were landing on the heel when running, they would have destroyed their feet in no time, they were hunting and running landing of the ball of the feet. The Boston barefoot doctor runs that way in the city. I tried, with shoes only, the shins hurt badly at first but it's on par with what we want to do in tt so it makes strong sense to me. The technique with gliding effect is fun to use, I should write less about it and do it more. The volleyball like shoes are good to prevent inevitable accidents landing on the heel but running and landing on the ball of the feet always seemed logical once I read that hunting explanation.

Edited by fatt - 03/24/2019 at 7:34pm
Back to Top
blahness View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/18/2009
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 2638
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/24/2019 at 7:42pm
Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

I don't really want to read through the whole thread, but if you want to know something specific, feel free to ask.

Tbh, since I already ordered those shoes and am going to try them for a while performance probably doesn't matter already. What I'm more interested in is the effects of barefoot running on foot health and injuries...
There is still a debate going on whether barefoot running is better compared to shod running from a injury risk standpoint. Studies show no differences in injury rates between shod and barefoot running. They have the same rates, but different injury types. People running shod have more injuries in the legs, like knee injuries. Barefoot runners have higher risks of injury in the foot.

 So I dug in deeper to see where those differences come from. The most reasonable explanation is that barefoot runners are very likely to run on the forefoot rather than on the heels. The problem with this is that whilst a forefoot strike pattern is more healthy in shoes compared to running on heels in shoes, forefoot striking is different in barefoot running, thus it's not really possible to draw the conclusion that forefoot striking=less injuries and barefoot running=forefoot striking thus barefoot running=less injuries.

 But at the end of my research I came to the conclusion that barefoot running is more healthy. Reason for that is that the injuries that occur in barefoot running are foot injuries. These foot injuries most of the time happen because the foot isn't prepared to run barefoot yet. If there's enough time spend on the transition period, the injury rate of barefoot running would go down, making it the better option.

I'm not sure if this is really relevant to table tennis though. In table tennis you are, or at least you should, always be on the ball of your foot. And your also never really in this stiff leg position that you're in when you're running, so all the negatives of using shoes are eliminated. And I think having cushioning will definitely help to reduce injuries in table tennis. Your feet would really take a toll if you used minimalistic shoes when running across the table and suddenly have to stop because you're about to run into something. But I also think that playing "barefoot" might have positive effect on footwork, whether it is real or just placebo.

Thanks Ttgold for the detailed reply and I think I basically agree with all your points. That said, there's very few people who actually use it for table tennis (I might be one of the pioneers lol)...so I don't think the effects are very much understood because table tennis is very different from running. I can definitely see your point especially like situations such as moving to the deep FH to loop, then recovering back to the middle; this requires a lot of stop start, reversing direction. I suspect that similar to barefoot running it's going to be harder on the feet initially (albeit different mechanisms because TT is a lot more lateral movement), but if you ease into it gradually you can train your feet to be strong enough to do that naturally rather than relying on a shoe.

I guess I can be one of the first guinea pigs haha, fingers crossed! 
-------
Tacky rubber lover :)

Stiga Clipper CR

FH: Hurricane 8
BH: Hurricane 3 Neo
Back to Top
ericd937 View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member


Joined: 06/01/2012
Location: Saigon, Vietnam
Status: Offline
Points: 920
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ericd937 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/24/2019 at 7:51pm
Has anyone tried the Donic - Sprint model of shoes? 


You might as well be playing in barefoot shoes. They virtually have zero padding. You could try those before going to actual barefoot shoes. 


Edited by ericd937 - 03/24/2019 at 7:53pm
Current Setup:
Sittiho Hinoki ALC, T80(max), Baracuda(max)
Official USATT Rating 1815
Current estimated level: Bad Day ~ 1900 Good Day ~ 2100 (In Asia since 2015, no USATT events here)
Back to Top
Tt Gold View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/22/2014
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 1091
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tt Gold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/24/2019 at 8:55pm
@blahness
The key will probably be the same as in running. Ease into it. If you do too much too soon then you'll get injured. The transition period should at take a few months. I'd suggest starting to do some jogging barefoot. But also only for a few minutes. Maybe 5, then ten minutes. Then 15. It's probably the easiest if you do it after the practice. Once your feet get used to running for short period of time, then I would start playing with those barefoot shoes. But also only for a few minutes. Maybe at the end of the session do some warm up forehand counter hits with the shoes on. That way you can slowly replace shoe time with barefoot shoe time.
Back to Top
fatt View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 07/15/2007
Location: Northwest USA
Status: Offline
Points: 15750
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/24/2019 at 9:20pm
question: since the only way to use those barefoot shoes in sports without heel injury as outcome is to land on the ball of the feet, why not just doing so with regular shoes to test? it's hard but rewarding, focusing on it adds explosiveness and enhances grit. NINJA!!!
Back to Top
blahness View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/18/2009
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 2638
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/24/2019 at 9:20pm
Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

@blahness
The key will probably be the same as in running. Ease into it. If you do too much too soon then you'll get injured. The transition period should at take a few months. I'd suggest starting to do some jogging barefoot. But also only for a few minutes. Maybe 5, then ten minutes. Then 15. It's probably the easiest if you do it after the practice. Once your feet get used to running for short period of time, then I would start playing with those barefoot shoes. But also only for a few minutes. Maybe at the end of the session do some warm up forehand counter hits with the shoes on. That way you can slowly replace shoe time with barefoot shoe time.

Good reminder Ttgold, I will follow this advice, I definitely don't wanna get injured!
-------
Tacky rubber lover :)

Stiga Clipper CR

FH: Hurricane 8
BH: Hurricane 3 Neo
Back to Top
blahness View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/18/2009
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 2638
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/24/2019 at 9:31pm
There's people in parkour and martial arts starting to adopt toe shoes for training and many of them have had very positive comments about the experience... I would think that the footwork requirements are also quite intense in both activities and comparable to TT, so this experiment could have some similar results too!
-------
Tacky rubber lover :)

Stiga Clipper CR

FH: Hurricane 8
BH: Hurricane 3 Neo
Back to Top
blahness View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/18/2009
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 2638
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/03/2019 at 5:07pm
I just got my Vibram shoes, they work as advertised lol...it's really like going barefoot except with a second layer of skin!

Now to testing it....
-------
Tacky rubber lover :)

Stiga Clipper CR

FH: Hurricane 8
BH: Hurricane 3 Neo
Back to Top
blahness View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/18/2009
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 2638
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/05/2019 at 8:11pm
First day using it in general....

First impressions was that yikes my current walking technique is definitely placing way too much pressure on the heels, every time I landed it was like a needle going through my leg to my knees and hips! 

I quickly learnt not to land on the heels within the first few mins hahahahah.... I automatically adjusted my technique to not place pressure on the heel, instead placing my weight in the forefoot/midfoot, with soft landings all the time. It was actually really fun because you're walking exactly like a cat or a ninja all the time! It actually kinda makes sense because we evolved to be the apex predators and we needed to be able to sneak onto prey unnoticed. 

The other fun part was that you become intimately aware of the ground, you feel every texture, grass, rock, sandy and bumps in the ground, it was a whole new world of sensations that I've never known before. Due to the second skin on the barefoot shoes I never felt that these could ever cut into my skin. 

I tried running a bit with the forefoot landing technique and it was actually really effortless, my feeling was that by landing on the forefoot there's some kind of springy mechanism in the foot which allows you to recover a lot of the energy. Also the landing somehow is a lot softer and you don't get the jolt in the knees and hips when you're running with shoes. I don't think you can engage this springy mechanism in shoes because the shoes restrict the movement of the toes and the feet which I believe is very crucial to activating the mechanism.

The other thing is that it engaged my calves a lot more than being in shoes, but luckily I've been doing ankle raises for the last two weeks religiously, so the transition wasn't so bad. It does seem like there's a whole lot of musculature that I'm activating for the first time in my life. 

In general it was really fun and I suspect it is actually a healthier way to walk and run! Will definitely be continuing this experiment...
-------
Tacky rubber lover :)

Stiga Clipper CR

FH: Hurricane 8
BH: Hurricane 3 Neo
Back to Top
Tassie52 View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/09/2010
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 1302
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tassie52 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/05/2019 at 11:06pm
Welcome to the barefoot world!

In all seriousness, take it slowly.  That engagement in the calves can very quickly become incredibly sore muscles and set you back.  I've transitioned fairly painlessly to forefoot running but using zero drop shoes (Brooks Pureflow) - where I run is almost all gravel, so it does require a degree of protection beyond running in bare feet.

I'm interested to hear what happens when you play tt in the Vibrams.

Back to Top
blahness View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/18/2009
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 2638
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/06/2019 at 6:50am
Originally posted by Tassie52 Tassie52 wrote:

Welcome to the barefoot world!

In all seriousness, take it slowly.  That engagement in the calves can very quickly become incredibly sore muscles and set you back.  I've transitioned fairly painlessly to forefoot running but using zero drop shoes (Brooks Pureflow) - where I run is almost all gravel, so it does require a degree of protection beyond running in bare feet.

I'm interested to hear what happens when you play tt in the Vibrams.



Thanks! I'm already getting some serious DOMS in the calves haha... Probably gonna give it a rest for a few days and try again....I have a feeling that it's not gonna work that well for TT, because I got the general purpose Vibram KSO evo, there's one called the KomodoSports which has a lot of lateral support which I think will be much better for TT....

Edit: Actually there's a model called V train with the gum color rubber that looks really interesting, might actually order that too!

Edit: Might wanna order some "toe socks" to go with the Vibrams, some people report that they stink even if you wash it lol...not gonna take that risk!


Edited by blahness - 04/07/2019 at 7:11pm
-------
Tacky rubber lover :)

Stiga Clipper CR

FH: Hurricane 8
BH: Hurricane 3 Neo
Back to Top
blahness View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/18/2009
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 2638
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/12/2019 at 7:55am
Did my first TT session with the Vibrams... It does feel really weird, and very punishing! I pretty much learnt very quickly never to land on the heels again lol...so after some experimenting I started to get used to it. You can't just load the forefoot during weight transfer either especially on the FH,  the only way is to place weight on your midfoot, when pushing off you then push off the forefoot. It became quite intuitive after a while. Place your weight on the midfoot and push off the forefoot, rinse and repeat.

Pros: 
I felt like I could move extremely securely, fast and precise using the toe shoes, the feedback that it gave to me gave me a whole new dimension of control over my footwork. It probably is also better against plantar fasciitis because you are simply conditioned to never land on the heels! Also it keeps you honest on your toes all the time. Also I'm not sure if it's just me, but I felt that my shots became more powerful because I could push off the ground better. I believe I play a lot better in these compared to my usual court shoes.

Cons:
It's still hard on the calves, but after a week of occasional walking and running with it it's not so bad. And my big toe skin seems to be irritated probably because I rotate a lot at the toes without shoes leaving the ground, perhaps that is wrong and I actually need to leave the ground completely! Food for thought there...)

I'll be ordering a V-train model soon as this model I have is more of a starter model (KSO Evo) and I believe it is a bit too minimalist. With TT there's a lot of stop start and the V train with the gum rubber and specialised lateral movement support seems a lot more ideal than the KSO Evo. The KSO Evo probably gives a more barefoot feel which I think might be better for daily use to train up the feet, not so much for TT...

-------
Tacky rubber lover :)

Stiga Clipper CR

FH: Hurricane 8
BH: Hurricane 3 Neo
Back to Top
blahness View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/18/2009
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 2638
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/17/2019 at 10:22am
Just finished my third session with the Vibrams. 

Just recovered from a really bad case of stomach flu. I was pretty low on both physical and mental strength but wanted to play. 

I was helping to train someone, so I was pretty much countering from both FH and BH with various drills. I made it a point to never reach but to always hit it in a good position and to move towards the ball, so it was quite testing on the footwork. My partner today was not that consistent so it was pretty much all table footwork for me haha... As I wasn't feeling that great I didn't think much about my feet but here's where the magic happens.(previously I was thinking consciously about not landing on the heel lol which may have led to me overstressing the big toe)

I noticed that I was moving really smoothly and effortlessly across the table (something I never experienced before). You know how in TT sometimes you hear squeaky sounds and loud noises from pushing off the ground and landing hard? It never happened with the Vibrams. All the landings were soft and quiet, and I felt like I was recovering a lot of energy from the incoming landing for the pushoff. It felt exactly like bouncing on springs all the time (effortless!). The pushoff effect is definitely quite a bit stronger than in normal shoes....

I also noticed i was actually landing on the heels but it was with a very soft landing. I can't describe it fully but it seems the heels have a lot of nerve endings, and the brain is capable of processing a lot of this information to enable it to adjust your subsequent landing perfectly to minimise the impact. I never knew my brain could do that....

I had pretty much zero discomfort after playing for almost 1.5hrs of all table countering....after today's experience I'm never gonna go back to court shoes for TT ever again! 
-------
Tacky rubber lover :)

Stiga Clipper CR

FH: Hurricane 8
BH: Hurricane 3 Neo
Back to Top
Tt Gold View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/22/2014
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 1091
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tt Gold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/17/2019 at 7:18pm
of course your brain has the ability to do such things. If you touch something that is extremely hot, for the first time as a child, then you won't do that ever again. Or let's say something is not right with your body and you are injured, limping for example is also a thing where your brain responds to the pain of something like a foot injury. When wearing shoes the impact of bad strokes stay unnoticed until you screw up your knee or back. Without the cushioning you feel the pain with every step, making you switch to FFS within a short period of time.
Back to Top
blahness View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/18/2009
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 2638
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/17/2019 at 9:04pm
Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

of course your brain has the ability to do such things. If you touch something that is extremely hot, for the first time as a child, then you won't do that ever again. Or let's say something is not right with your body and you are injured, limping for example is also a thing where your brain responds to the pain of something like a foot injury. When wearing shoes the impact of bad strokes stay unnoticed until you screw up your knee or back. Without the cushioning you feel the pain with every step, making you switch to FFS within a short period of time.

Yeah the brain automatically adjusts your landing to minimise the impact...it all happens subconsciously! The other advantage I feel that the barefoot shoes is because of these soft landings and springy actions, the stress on the knees and hips and back are very much reduced... I definitely felt like it'll be actually easier on the body in the long run! 
-------
Tacky rubber lover :)

Stiga Clipper CR

FH: Hurricane 8
BH: Hurricane 3 Neo
Back to Top
Tt Gold View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/22/2014
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 1091
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tt Gold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2019 at 10:30am
the force is absorbed differently. Instead of your back and knee/ hips, the force goes into the feet. That's why I told you to transition slowly, because barefoot running injuries are almost always on the feet. A slow transition gives you a very high chance to stay injury free.
Back to Top
fatt View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 07/15/2007
Location: Northwest USA
Status: Offline
Points: 15750
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2019 at 10:59am
Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

A while ago, a university teacher in Boston was nicknamed the barefoot doctor because he jogs barefoot. He says there is no way our ancestors were landing on the heel when running, they would have destroyed their feet in no time, they were hunting and running landing of the ball of the feet. The Boston barefoot doctor runs that way in the city. I tried, with shoes only, the shins hurt badly at first but it's on par with what we want to do in tt so it makes strong sense to me. The technique with gliding effect is fun to use, I should write less about it and do it more. The volleyball like shoes are good to prevent inevitable accidents landing on the heel but running and landing on the ball of the feet always seemed logical once I read that hunting explanation.

Hi all, related to the barefoot doctor, I wanted to share that article:
Back to Top
blahness View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/18/2009
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 2638
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2019 at 9:15pm
Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

A while ago, a university teacher in Boston was nicknamed the barefoot doctor because he jogs barefoot. He says there is no way our ancestors were landing on the heel when running, they would have destroyed their feet in no time, they were hunting and running landing of the ball of the feet. The Boston barefoot doctor runs that way in the city. I tried, with shoes only, the shins hurt badly at first but it's on par with what we want to do in tt so it makes strong sense to me. The technique with gliding effect is fun to use, I should write less about it and do it more. The volleyball like shoes are good to prevent inevitable accidents landing on the heel but running and landing on the ball of the feet always seemed logical once I read that hunting explanation.

Hi all, related to the barefoot doctor, I wanted to share that article:
Thanks fatt!
Very interesting article and it confirms what I felt after trying the barefoot shoes!
-------
Tacky rubber lover :)

Stiga Clipper CR

FH: Hurricane 8
BH: Hurricane 3 Neo
Back to Top
pingpungpeng View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 12/14/2017
Location: chaila
Status: Offline
Points: 464
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pingpungpeng Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2019 at 10:00pm
I remember when doing demanding physical activities my legs would always start hurting sooner when using really basic shoes (like futsal type) than using the latest tech super mushy stuff.
Back to Top
blahness View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/18/2009
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 2638
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2019 at 10:28pm
Originally posted by pingpungpeng pingpungpeng wrote:

I remember when doing demanding physical activities my legs would always start hurting sooner when using really basic shoes (like futsal type) than using the latest tech super mushy stuff.

It is more demanding on the feet especially the calves...also I think without toe mobility it's different? (I definitely felt like my toes were doing quite a bit of work when I was in the Vibrams)
-------
Tacky rubber lover :)

Stiga Clipper CR

FH: Hurricane 8
BH: Hurricane 3 Neo
Back to Top
pingpungpeng View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 12/14/2017
Location: chaila
Status: Offline
Points: 464
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pingpungpeng Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2019 at 10:37pm
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by pingpungpeng pingpungpeng wrote:

I remember when doing demanding physical activities my legs would always start hurting sooner when using really basic shoes (like futsal type) than using the latest tech super mushy stuff.

It is more demanding on the feet especially the calves...also I think without toe mobility it's different? (I definitely felt like my toes were doing quite a bit of work when I was in the Vibrams)

calves is more muscular pain.

I meant after long periods of being standing, playing, maybe even walking back home.
I remember feeling more tired and pain in the legs with futsal shoes than other more mushy shoes.
but I probably would not have felt much difference between say a "vans old skool" and a volleyball shoe.
so I think the problem of the futsal was the super thin sole.


Edited by pingpungpeng - 04/18/2019 at 10:45pm
Back to Top
blahness View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/18/2009
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 2638
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2019 at 10:43pm
Originally posted by pingpungpeng pingpungpeng wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by pingpungpeng pingpungpeng wrote:

I remember when doing demanding physical activities my legs would always start hurting sooner when using really basic shoes (like futsal type) than using the latest tech super mushy stuff.

It is more demanding on the feet especially the calves...also I think without toe mobility it's different? (I definitely felt like my toes were doing quite a bit of work when I was in the Vibrams)

calves is more muscular pain.

I meant after long periods of being standing, playing, maybe even walking back home.
I remember feeling more tired and pain in the legs with futsal shoes than other more mushy shoes.
but I probably would not have felt much difference between say a "vans old skool" and a volleyball shoe.
so I think the problem of the futsal was the super thin sole.


If you're still landing on the heels, the lack of padding will worsen the pain...the point of the Vibrams is to condition yourself not to land hard on the heels!
-------
Tacky rubber lover :)

Stiga Clipper CR

FH: Hurricane 8
BH: Hurricane 3 Neo
Back to Top
pingpungpeng View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 12/14/2017
Location: chaila
Status: Offline
Points: 464
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pingpungpeng Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2019 at 10:54pm
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by pingpungpeng pingpungpeng wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by pingpungpeng pingpungpeng wrote:

I remember when doing demanding physical activities my legs would always start hurting sooner when using really basic shoes (like futsal type) than using the latest tech super mushy stuff.

It is more demanding on the feet especially the calves...also I think without toe mobility it's different? (I definitely felt like my toes were doing quite a bit of work when I was in the Vibrams)

calves is more muscular pain.

I meant after long periods of being standing, playing, maybe even walking back home.
I remember feeling more tired and pain in the legs with futsal shoes than other more mushy shoes.
but I probably would not have felt much difference between say a "vans old skool" and a volleyball shoe.
so I think the problem of the futsal was the super thin sole.


If you're still landing on the heels, the lack of padding will worsen the pain...the point of the Vibrams is to condition yourself not to land hard on the heels!

I'm not talking about a specific pain for doing something wrong (like landing in the heels).

I'm talking about the general pain and tiredness after playing, walking and being standing for 3 hours.
I think more advanced shoes might protect you better against this.
maybe you can try it.
spend one day 4 hours moving with vibram and one day 4 hours moving with nike air max.
then see with which one you feel more tired.

as for landing in the heels after jumping, I think normal people don't do this.
but it's not like they learned it somewhere, it's just the natural way living creatures move.
animals do the same thing.


Edited by pingpungpeng - 04/18/2019 at 11:12pm
Back to Top
blahness View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/18/2009
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 2638
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2019 at 11:32pm
Originally posted by pingpungpeng pingpungpeng wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by pingpungpeng pingpungpeng wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by pingpungpeng pingpungpeng wrote:

I remember when doing demanding physical activities my legs would always start hurting sooner when using really basic shoes (like futsal type) than using the latest tech super mushy stuff.

It is more demanding on the feet especially the calves...also I think without toe mobility it's different? (I definitely felt like my toes were doing quite a bit of work when I was in the Vibrams)

calves is more muscular pain.

I meant after long periods of being standing, playing, maybe even walking back home.
I remember feeling more tired and pain in the legs with futsal shoes than other more mushy shoes.
but I probably would not have felt much difference between say a "vans old skool" and a volleyball shoe.
so I think the problem of the futsal was the super thin sole.


If you're still landing on the heels, the lack of padding will worsen the pain...the point of the Vibrams is to condition yourself not to land hard on the heels!

I'm not talking about a specific pain for doing something wrong (like landing in the heels).

I'm talking about the general pain and tiredness after playing, walking and being standing for 3 hours.
I think more advanced shoes might protect you better against this.
maybe you can try it.
spend one day 4 hours moving with vibram and one day 4 hours moving with nike air max.
then see with which one you feel more tired.

as for landing in the heels after jumping, I think normal people don't do this.
but it's not like they learned it somewhere, it's just the natural way living creatures move.
animals do the same thing.

In fact I have a Nike Air Max. With the Vibrams initially it felt more tiring, but after a few weeks I can confidently say that moving in the Vibrams is much more energy efficient compared to the Air Max. The Air Max simply absorbs way too much of the landing energy and I have to push off again, whereas in the Vibrams it's like landing on springs, you recover quite a large proportion of the landing energy.

Also,  I would say 80-90% of ppl in shoes land on the heels. If you're not you're in the minority....
-------
Tacky rubber lover :)

Stiga Clipper CR

FH: Hurricane 8
BH: Hurricane 3 Neo
Back to Top
pingpungpeng View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 12/14/2017
Location: chaila
Status: Offline
Points: 464
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pingpungpeng Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2019 at 11:45pm
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by pingpungpeng pingpungpeng wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by pingpungpeng pingpungpeng wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by pingpungpeng pingpungpeng wrote:

I remember when doing demanding physical activities my legs would always start hurting sooner when using really basic shoes (like futsal type) than using the latest tech super mushy stuff.

It is more demanding on the feet especially the calves...also I think without toe mobility it's different? (I definitely felt like my toes were doing quite a bit of work when I was in the Vibrams)

calves is more muscular pain.

I meant after long periods of being standing, playing, maybe even walking back home.
I remember feeling more tired and pain in the legs with futsal shoes than other more mushy shoes.
but I probably would not have felt much difference between say a "vans old skool" and a volleyball shoe.
so I think the problem of the futsal was the super thin sole.


If you're still landing on the heels, the lack of padding will worsen the pain...the point of the Vibrams is to condition yourself not to land hard on the heels!

I'm not talking about a specific pain for doing something wrong (like landing in the heels).

I'm talking about the general pain and tiredness after playing, walking and being standing for 3 hours.
I think more advanced shoes might protect you better against this.
maybe you can try it.
spend one day 4 hours moving with vibram and one day 4 hours moving with nike air max.
then see with which one you feel more tired.

as for landing in the heels after jumping, I think normal people don't do this.
but it's not like they learned it somewhere, it's just the natural way living creatures move.
animals do the same thing.

In fact I have a Nike Air Max. With the Vibrams initially it felt more tiring, but after a few weeks I can confidently say that moving in the Vibrams is much more energy efficient compared to the Air Max. The Air Max simply absorbs way too much of the landing energy and I have to push off again, whereas in the Vibrams it's like landing on springs, you recover quite a large proportion of the landing energy.

Also,  I would say 80-90% of ppl in shoes land on the heels. If you're not you're in the minority....

depends on the movement.
walking heel.
running maybe heel.
jumping never heel.



look at 1:06


Edited by pingpungpeng - 04/18/2019 at 11:47pm
Back to Top
blahness View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/18/2009
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 2638
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2019 at 11:55pm
I'm talking about general table tennis, you generally don't jump upwards in TT unless you're smashing a high ball....
-------
Tacky rubber lover :)

Stiga Clipper CR

FH: Hurricane 8
BH: Hurricane 3 Neo
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.094 seconds.

Become a Fan on Facebook Follow us on Twitter Web Wiz News
About MyTableTennis.NET | Forum Help | Disclaimer

MyTableTennis.NET is the trading name of Alex Table Tennis Ltd.

Copyright ©2003-2019 Alex Table Tennis Ltd. All rights reserved.