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Hurricane Long 5X

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mark20 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 03/29/2019 at 12:06am
DHS made a newer version of HL5, HL5X. Thicker than the original version.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unstopabl3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/28/2019 at 8:28am
Has anyone used this new version?

Would love to read a gameplay comparison between the HL5 and HL5x.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote DarkerMyLove Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/30/2019 at 12:50am
I just bought the HL5x but only played with it three 1 hr training sessions.  I have only hit with the original HL5 a few times but with slowish chinese rubbers (not H3) so I cannot really give a comparison. 

Below are some thoughts with small comparison to the Viscaria.  FH vega pro  BH T05 on both blades.

The center ply is thicker (than original) and they made the outer two wood plies thinner.  Mine is slightly over 6mm.  It's still technically "inner carbon" but now that carbon layer is much closer to the surface.  

My Viscaria is 87g --> the HL5x is 90g and has the sound and hitting feeling of wood on normal warm up drives or just bounce test.  Definitely stiffer than the VIS and in most ways feels harder too.  VIS still has that muted feel but the vibrations/feedback are more pronounced than HL5x .  The HL5x is not very 'flexy'.

This is marketed as the update for the 40+ ball...which is probably mumbo jumbo marketing, but with gameplay changing to more close to the table, and counter looping off the bounce, it seems like going to slightly stiffer blades or harder sponged rubbers is the trend.

A passive bounce test (vs VIS) does not make it seem this is very bouncy, however once you put in any type of 'power' you start to see the catapult affect.  This blade wants to launch the ball.  So it is quite a fast blade.  Also with bounce test the 'sweet spot' of the HL5x appears a bit larger.  Even in play, there are times when i know i hit it towards to top but is it confusing because it still feels like i hit the ball clean.

Regular FH drives it is still controllable, but less control than the Viscaria.  That bounciness you can feel so you have to be very confident and direct with your drives. You can feel that the blade just wants to "spin".   Or maybe it can be described as a higher launch angle than the VIS.  So I think it's not something you would want to flat hit consistently.  

As you open up on loops, you are rewarded with lots of spin and pace on the ball.  That bounciness could be considered as dwell time...because with a normal full swing brush loop (engaging the sponge) you get enough dwell and then you get a bit of a catapult with a huge amount of pace and spin.  It never feels uncontrollable, unless you actually try to slow down your speed.  You really need to take full strokes every time.

The overall positive for this blade is it has "put-away" power.  I'm not sure if it has to do with the 90g weight (compared to 87g  VIS) but it is the first time I felt consistent winners and consistent 'forcing' errors with the same strokes.  (but i have never used super fast rubbers or boosted before so perhaps boosting would give you a similar effect)

Counter looping close to the table is great probably due to the stiffness and away from the table also extremely fast and you can put lots of spin.  Hitting thinly or brush looping with sponge are quite easy.

Short game is very nice, easy to push.  BH flicks needed an adjustment since it is stiffer but no problem to get lots of spin.  The adjustment is going from very spinny arcing flicks vs low trajectory fast flicks.  Part of this is also adjusting to the extra 3 grams of weight.

Active blocking on both sides is good but you really have to be more active with the blocks or the ball could launch.  But the stiffness/weight of the blade make it easy to 'kill' spin if you are blocking actively or even doing chops / chop blocks

All of the positives turn negative if you are too passive or like to play a simple 'control' game.  You really need to loop everything, but you are rewarded for doing so. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote polbotinka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/06/2019 at 4:14am
Originally posted by DarkerMyLove DarkerMyLove wrote:

I
just bought the HL5x but only played with it three 1 hr training sessions.  I have only hit with the original HL5 a few times but with
slowish chinese rubbers (not H3) so I cannot really give a
comparison. <font size="2" face="Verdana"><div style="font-size: 12px; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">

<div style="font-size: 12px; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Below
are some thoughts with small comparison to the Viscaria.  FH vega pro  BH T05 on both blades.


The center ply is thicker (than original) and they made the outer two wood plies thinner.  Mine is slightly over 6mm.  It's still technically "inner
carbon" but now that carbon layer is much closer to the surface.  



My Viscaria is 87g --> the HL5x is 90g and has the sound
and hitting feeling of wood on normal warm up drives or just bounce test. 
Definitely stiffer than the VIS and in most ways feels harder too.  VIS still
has that muted feel but the vibrations/feedback are more pronounced than HL5x .  The HL5x is not very 'flexy'.

<div style="font-size: 12px; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">

<div style="font-size: 12px; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">This
is marketed as the update for the 40+ ball...which is probably mumbo jumbo
marketing, but with gameplay changing to more close to the table, and counter looping off the bounce, it seems like going to
slightly stiffer blades or harder sponged rubbers is the trend.
<div style="font-size: 12px; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">

<div style="font-size: 12px; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">A
passive bounce test (vs VIS) does not make it seem this is very bouncy, however
once you put in any type of 'power' you start to see the catapult affect.  This
blade wants to launch the ball.  So it is quite a fast blade.  Also with bounce test the 'sweet spot' of the HL5x appears a bit larger.  Even in play, there are times when i know i hit it towards to top but is it confusing because it still feels like i hit the ball clean.
<div style="font-size: 12px; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">
<div style="font-size: 12px; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Regular FH drives it is still controllable, but less control than the Viscaria.  That bounciness you can feel so you have to be very confident and direct with your drives. You can feel that the blade just wants to "spin".   Or maybe it can be described as a higher launch angle than the VIS.  So I think it's not something you would want to flat hit consistently.  <div style="font-size: 12px; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">
<div style="font-size: 12px; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">As
you open up on loops, you are rewarded with lots of spin and pace on the ball.  That bounciness could be considered as dwell time...because with a normal full swing brush loop (engaging the sponge) you get enough dwell and then you get a bit of a catapult with a huge amount of pace and spin.  It never feels uncontrollable, unless you actually try to slow down your speed.  You really need to take full strokes every time.<div style="font-size: 12px; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">
<div style="font-size: 12px; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">The overall positive for this blade is it has "put-away" power.  I'm not sure if it has to do with the 90g weight (compared to 87g  VIS) but it is the first time I felt consistent winners and consistent 'forcing' errors with the same strokes.  (but i have never used super fast rubbers or boosted before so perhaps boosting would give you a similar effect)<div style="font-size: 12px; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">
<div style="font-size: 12px; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Counter looping close to the table is great probably due to the stiffness and away from the table also extremely fast and you can put lots of spin.  Hitting thinly or brush looping with sponge are quite easy.<div style="font-size: 12px; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">
<div style="font-size: 12px; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Short game is very nice, easy to push.  BH flicks needed an adjustment since it is stiffer but no problem to get lots of spin.  The adjustment is going from very spinny arcing flicks vs low trajectory fast flicks.  Part of this is also adjusting to the extra 3 grams of weight.<div style="font-size: 12px; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">
<div style="font-size: 12px; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Active blocking on both sides is good but you really have to be more active with the blocks or the ball could launch.  But the stiffness/weight of the blade make it easy to 'kill' spin if you are blocking actively or even doing chops / chop blocks<div style="font-size: 12px; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">
<div style="font-size: 12px; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">All of the positives turn negative if you are too passive or like to play a simple 'control' game.  You really need to loop everything, but you are rewarded for doing so. 


Funny I had the very same experience with DHS PG-5X (Ma Long 5X clone) which is 5 times cheaper
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DarkerMyLove View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DarkerMyLove Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/06/2019 at 10:30am
Thanks, wish I had known.   Local store here doesn't have a lot of DHS blades unfortunately.

For that price I might try to look online to see if a store has a 92-93g version to see if it has the same or better feeling.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndiHL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2019 at 1:59am
Can you tell me how much thicker the core is? And is the overall thickness also increased? Or are the outerplies thinner than on standard HL5?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DarkerMyLove Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2019 at 3:31am
My DHS Long 5x is 6.03mm  (90g)   

official stats:
DHS Long 5x is 6.0mm  +/- 0.1mm  
DHS Long 5   is 5.9mm  +/- 0.1mm

Each blade comes with a card that has the 'exact' thickness so DHS is quite clear there are variations.  So you could have a DHS Long 5 and 5x that are the exact thickness due to the tolerances of the production process.

Looking at a coworker's Long 5 it does seem my Long 5x center ply is almost 0.8-1mm thicker.  And the outer plies seems only slightly thinner...perhaps less than 0.4mm.  These are eyeball guesses Smile

But every blade really is totally different--->  the photos on that Prott.vip seem like both Long 5x blades they picture are 5.95mm.   Now go to the photo of normal Long 5...and it shows 5.94mm...so you are only talking about 0.01mm difference.  

But for sure all Long 5x types will have a thicker core...by how much depends on the two blades you are comparing.

So you can see with mine being 6.03mm it could be my outer plies are slightly thicker than other 5x types OR  my coworkers Long 5 is slightly 'thinner'.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unstopabl3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/02/2020 at 8:51pm
Hi, I have used HL5 for over two years, it's the newer version with normal size of the blade face, but I recently gave HL5x a try because I wanted to get something a little bit faster than HL5.

However, when I did a pitch/sound frequency test on both blades and found both to be in this range: 1335-1378 Hertz.

This shows that both blades should be of same speed theoretically, although the blade specifications tell us that HL5x should be faster. Both blades I tested are 90-91 grams and these are my findings:

HL5x is slightly faster than HL5.
HL5x has a slightly bigger/chunkier handle.
HL5x has less grip/dwell and feels a little more stiffer than HL5 thus giving it less spin than HL5.
HL5x has a higher bounce, most evident when blocking heavy spiny loop.
HL5x has less control than HL5.

Do you guys agree or disagree with my findings?

Awaiting your feedback.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piligrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/05/2020 at 7:19am
Hard to believe HL5 can be not fast enough for somebody except Ma Long

Edited by piligrim - 09/05/2020 at 7:20am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Creek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/05/2020 at 9:31pm
since hl 5 is just a Medium fast blade it is not unusual to have a quicker blade. Viscaria e.g. is by far quicker than HL5 and is a quite common blade...
Ma Long has great technique and heavily boosted rubbers. He chose a quite slow blade to gain some control and with the fact in mind that he is still able to produce speed due to his superior technique. Those who do not have such a technique need faster gear to produce good speed, so making a faster hl5x (which is still slower than Viscaria) is not a bad idea
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piligrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/05/2020 at 9:50pm
No way hl5 slower then Viscaria. HL5 much faster
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Creek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/06/2020 at 4:21am
Originally posted by piligrim piligrim wrote:

No way hl5 slower then Viscaria. HL5 much faster
HL5 is an Innerforce blade with 3 ayous layers and Limba top layer and much much slower than a Viscaria with alc outer and harder Koto top veneer. If you want scientific proof, go here: www.ttgearlab.com: HL5 base speed/reaction is 1.64, HL5X has 1.83 and Boll ALC / Viscaria has 2.14
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bars Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/06/2020 at 5:47am
the speed between the paddles probably comes down to the particular shot or ball coming in.(etc)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piligrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/06/2020 at 7:16am
Originally posted by Creek Creek wrote:

Originally posted by piligrim piligrim wrote:

No way hl5 slower then Viscaria. HL5 much faster

HL5 is an Innerforce blade with 3 ayous layers and Limba top layer and much much slower than a Viscaria with alc outer and harder Koto top veneer. If you want scientific proof, go here: www.ttgearlab.com: HL5 base speed/reaction is 1.64, HL5X has 1.83 and Boll ALC / Viscaria has 2.14




I am talking from my own experience. This numbers means nothing. I had 2 HL5 (old and new), 4 Viscaria, 2 TB ALC, 2 ZJK ALC and Freitas. my 2 HL5 where much faster then all this blades.
Also it sound like joke HL5 too slow for amateur players while even in TOP 50 there is players who use much slower blades then HL5
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Creek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/06/2020 at 9:34am
sounds to me, that you are a little bit blinded by the thought that „Ma Long, one of the greatest players ever, needs to play with a damn fast blade“... 
Limba-ayous-alc-ayous-alc-ayous-Limba combination (like HL5) is impossible to be faster than Koto-alc-Limba-Kiri-Limba-alc-Koto (Viscaria) unless the first one is super thick. 
HL5 is an Off-minus blade, even slower than most Butterfly Innerforce blades, while Viscaria is a solid off blade. 
If you do not trust in ttgearlab, then try to measure the pitch frequency... HL5 is usually at 1200-1300Hz, while Viscarias sit between 1400 and 1500...
The higher the frequency, the faster the blade. 
HL5X ist between 1300 and 1350, so still slower than Viscaria 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/06/2020 at 12:00pm
Originally posted by Creek Creek wrote:

sounds to me, that you are a little bit blinded by the thought that „Ma Long, one of the greatest players ever, needs to play with a damn fast blade“... 
Limba-ayous-alc-ayous-alc-ayous-Limba combination (like HL5) is impossible to be faster than Koto-alc-Limba-Kiri-Limba-alc-Koto (Viscaria) unless the first one is super thick. 
HL5 is an Off-minus blade, even slower than most Butterfly Innerforce blades, while Viscaria is a solid off blade. 
If you do not trust in ttgearlab, then try to measure the pitch frequency... HL5 is usually at 1200-1300Hz, while Viscarias sit between 1400 and 1500...
The higher the frequency, the faster the blade. 
HL5X ist between 1300 and 1350, so still slower than Viscaria 


long 5 is  faster than viscaria not much but faster
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Creek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/06/2020 at 12:26pm
Alternative facts? All objective measurements say HL5 is much much slower. What makes you think it isn’t? QAnon? 😂
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GSOM_GSOM11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/06/2020 at 10:43pm
These numbers are measured with help of some installation which emulates A CERTAIN TYPE OF STROKE. For ex., you fix your blades by handles and drop a ball from 1m height and measure the vibration parameters. A softer blade always behaves as slower under these conditions.
But imagine some other conditions. You have a 'frying pan' and a 'wooden ruler' types of blade. If you drop balls onto them, the frying pan seems faster. But if you perform a POWERFUL loop which forces the 'wooden ruler' to bend and catapult, the resulting speed and power will be overwhelming.
The downside of this extra power is loss of some blocking reliability. The incoming power also makes the 'ruler' bend, and your blocks tend to go long. You lose this 'I can block everything I managed to put my racket in front of', 'concrete wall' feeling. There must be some balance. But Long5 is more loopy, Viscaria is more blocky. I can even add that my 5-ply Nittaku Tenor is no way slower than my friends TBALC and Harimoto ALC, but it's not so reliable at blocking.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DarkerMyLove Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/06/2020 at 10:59pm
Originally posted by Creek Creek wrote:

Alternative facts? All objective measurements say HL5 is much much slower. What makes you think it isn’t? QAnon? 😂

I think that alternative facts would be using the same rubbers on both Viscaria and a Long 5 or 5x and actually hit with them.
 
Just from my PERSONAL experience with Viscara 87g and Long 5X  6.03mm and 90g (using the exact same rubbers), is that the Long 5X feels slower and quite woody on softer shots (passive blocks, short game), but just a fast as you increase a bit and then becomes faster on very strong shots.  It could be due to weight and thickness.  For me there is a noticeable difference but nothing mind-blowingly different in terms of speed with 80% power during loops.  

Personally I would not dispute ttgearlab findings when you do objective tests with bare wood and a ball.  But we don't play hardbat.  Are they testing with rubbers? Are they brush looping with hardbat for testing?  I didn't really see the section where they are showing video of the tests or the rubbers they used for the test. 
 
I think the problem is that things change when you put stuff on a blade like glue layers, sponge and rubber.  Also what you are using on the other side of the blade affects weight, stiffness and eventually speed as well.  How a specific person hits their topspin with both blades (whatever the amount of brush or flat hit) can change how people feel about the speed. 
 
Also it should be noted that ttgearlab did a test with Harimoto ALC (innerforce limba outer alc) and they had the the Elasticity Index at Ep: 2.10 and Ec: 1.83 (higher value than boll alc).  Boll ALC  Ep: 2.14 and Ec: 1.77  and in the end they said the Harimoto is as fast as Boll ALC. 
 
One issue with ttgearlab on the Long 5 is they did not mention the weight of the blade but they did say it was 5.8mm.  Normally it should be 5.9mm.  Thickness and weight will affect findings.  Actually if we looked closely at their results we could find that certain SPECIFICATIONS of a blade could affect their 'speed values' more than what might be felt when actually hitting with the blade. 
 
Which is to say, nothing is actually objective in this sense.  Meaning every value that ttgearlab gives us is based ONLY on the actual blades they used.  They have not tested batches of 5, 10, 20 blades and averaged the speed values.  Those values are interesting to see and compare but 'in reality' (with rubber attached) things 'could be' the same...but also 'could be' different.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roger Stillabower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/07/2020 at 4:51pm
I have played with the HL5 and Viscaria with the same rubbers (H3-40 deg. forhand and Fastarc G1 or Rakza7 on back hand for several years , and I feel like the Viscaria is faster of the blade but the HL5 has a woody feel on soft shots but explodes with a catapult speed on hard fast strokes which makes it faster. this is just my subjective opinion.                                      I mean coming off the blade , Viscaria bounces faster.

Edited by Roger Stillabower - 09/07/2020 at 7:51pm
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