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Butterfly Dignics 05 Reviews?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote taczkid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/10/2019 at 8:34am
Guess each player is different Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote notfound123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/10/2019 at 11:06am
Originally posted by ericd937 ericd937 wrote:

I rank them in exactly the opposite order. lol I honestly don't really like normal Tenergy 05 all that much and Tenergy 05 Hard was one of the worst rubbers I've played ever. I tried it for a month on both wings. I also tried the 05H boosted and unboosted on two different blades; Hinoki/ALC and Hinoki/T5000. 05H wasn't good for me in any case. 

(Best > worst)
Forehand: Dig05 > T80 > T05 > Any rubber on the planet > 05H
Backhand: Dig05 > T80 > T05 > 10 dollar rubber > 05H


We all should be adding YMMV at the end of our "reviews"..LOL

I just posted to the T05H thread. I played with T05H for a couple hours last night and it was awesome. This was on a 5ply All+/Off- blade. It didn't feel too hard or slow. If anything it felt very similar to the regular T05 but with more speed and power . i.e. T05 for the 40+ ball.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpenmaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/10/2019 at 12:00pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gromousse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/12/2019 at 7:35pm
well... I played another championship match with the dignics and and I am still in love with it. I played for years with tenergy in the BH, first T64 then 80 then 05fx looking for more control and grip with P ball. Even tried backhand H3 #20 Sponge, very good but hard to control opponent’s spin.
Dignics 05 in the BH has all I searched for years...
More spin, less bounce, more control but huge power if you hit hard... I was able to defeat opponents I couldn’t win since years... almost it’s high cost, I keep it on my BH.
In FH I definitely prefer H3neo.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gromousse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/12/2019 at 7:43pm
someone talked about oméga V asia... theorically you could think these rubbers have same caracteristics... but IRL they have not. OVA is faster , harder, powerful, lower throw and lower dwell time, and lower spin... so it gives  by far less control than D05. The touch feel is also totally different. No way to consider the rubbers are similar.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scdit46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/14/2019 at 5:11pm
D05 is suitable for modern defense?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jackcerry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/18/2019 at 6:46am
Do the Dignics last really so long? Anyone using it since release date can give a feedback of the rubber condition now?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/18/2019 at 9:10am
Originally posted by Jackcerry Jackcerry wrote:

Do the Dignics last really so long? Anyone using it since release date can give a feedback of the rubber condition now?

About 16 hours on this one now.  Still very good, but some marks appearing from my finger position when serving.  Just visual at this point, doesn't make any real difference and it still plays fine.




Edited by AndySmith - 05/18/2019 at 9:15am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/18/2019 at 3:31pm
It is supposed to last longer than T05.  Mine is not showing any signs if wear yet, but it is too early to be sure.

I ordered a couple more for my backup blade, so I'll have a reasonable idea of longevity as I go through these first three.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/18/2019 at 11:48pm
OK, my turn.  I had my first real extended experience with Dignics today and this is my early report.

Quick background: I have a solid BH loop.  I've been mostly using T05 on the BH of a Timo Boll ALC paddle over recent years.  However, a couple of moths I pulled an old paddle out of storage that was Viscara with T80 on the BH.  I was surprised at how well T80 played, at least on Viscara.  Maybe not quite as spiny as T05 but close, and faster.  For me, at least, it seemed to make quality BH loops easier than my usual T05.

Now today: I put D05 on the BH of a Nittaku Tornado King Speed.  A different brand of blade (new for me), but very similar in play to the Butterfly ALC class of blades.  Certainly an easy adaption.

For my experience as the player, Dignics 05 played a lot like either T80 or T05.  A very easy adaption.  I made the same strokes, felt about the same, played about the same.  What I did find was the D05 showed the spin of the T05 (superior to T80), but also showed more speed than T05 (more like T80).  Loops (including BH loops against a chopper), flips, and bananas, were also very effective.  

One day of experience is too little for me to really judge the rubber.  But if I had to go on today's experience, I would consider D05 superior to ether T05 or T80 for my BH.  That says nothing about it's value for an extra $25 in cost, just saying it did more for my BH today than the Tenergies.

This review only concerns BH use.  While I did twiddle the paddle a few times, I really wasn't testing it for FH use.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SmackDAT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2019 at 6:50am
Just an extra $25, in total $105 LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tajny1989 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2019 at 10:49am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2019 at 11:18am
I still think it's misleading to focus on the price here.  When you go shopping for a new car, the average American might expect to spend $25,000.  Yet there are clearly cars that cost $100,000 or more that people do buy.  People buy based on both what they can afford and also on how important something is to them.  

For some people, Dignics isn't going to be the right rubber for them, in which case the price is irrelevant. For others, it's a good rubber, but out of their price range.  Or it's just not enough better to justify the cost.  Or they don't believe that table tennis is important enough to invest that much money.  All of those are good reasons for not buying Dignics.  But if you like the rubber, it works well for you, you can afford it, and you can live with the idea of paying that much, then you should buy it.

I understand that for many people, this is an emotional reaction, because the history of rubbers are reasonably low prices.  But the world changes.  Who in the year 2000 thought that a popular cell phone model would cost $1,000?  So now we have $100 sheets of rubber.  And over time, I guarantee you'll see more rubbers with high prices ($80+) from other manufacturers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AgReZz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2019 at 11:31am
I would gladly buy the rubber if it wasnt shit. Its just not good at all. Pure marketing scam. Maybe the pros receive something completely else? I dont know.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2019 at 11:34am
'And over time, I guarantee you'll see more rubbers with high prices ($80+) from other manufacturers.'
that is the problem, while what you said about bty fanboys paying exorbitant prices is ok (for them), but they facilitating this trend of higher prices for other mfgrs is not ok since the ones not wiling to pay for bty prices end up getting hurt anyways
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2019 at 11:56am
Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

'And over time, I guarantee you'll see more rubbers with high prices ($80+) from other manufacturers.'
that is the problem, while what you said about bty fanboys paying exorbitant prices is ok (for them), but they facilitating this trend of higher prices for other mfgrs is not ok since the ones not wiling to pay for bty prices end up getting hurt anyways
This is called economics.  If you think this doesn't happen with *everything else* you buy (clothes, food, phone, etc.), that you don't really understand the real world.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2019 at 11:58am
Originally posted by AgReZz AgReZz wrote:

I would gladly buy the rubber if it wasnt shit. Its just not good at all. Pure marketing scam. Maybe the pros receive something completely else? I dont know.
With all do respect, maybe you played with completely something else?  D05 plays a lot like T05, only improved.  I haven't decided if it's the right rubber for me, or if I would want to spend that much on rubber, but it's certainly an excellent rubber.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2019 at 12:39pm
Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

'And over time, I guarantee you'll see more rubbers with high prices ($80+) from other manufacturers.'
that is the problem, while what you said about bty fanboys paying exorbitant prices is ok (for them), but they facilitating this trend of higher prices for other mfgrs is not ok since the ones not wiling to pay for bty prices end up getting hurt anyways
This is called economics.  If you think this doesn't happen with *everything else* you buy (clothes, food, phone, etc.), that you don't really understand the real world.
yes, but there are always activists trying slow this trend down - just because this is how the corps like to operate - it doesn't mean you have to submit to their schemes without a fight
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mickael Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2019 at 1:54pm
i would have paid for it 2 x more if it was a better tenergy. i bought 3 sheets and tried on different blades. it does not play like any rubber out there. i was hoping for a tenergy feel speed spin celluloid era with the poly ball. nothing like that completely unexpected behaviour nothing i have learned or mastered. completely unplayable. it is for timo, liu shiwen....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2019 at 1:54pm
Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

I still think it's misleading to focus on the price here. 

Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

This is called economics.  If you think this doesn't happen with *everything else* you buy (clothes, food, phone, etc.), that you don't really understand the real world.

Good grief, passive aggressive much?

One type of person dislikes a trend and, through discussion, tries to show how that trend is bad.  They actively try to push back, even if the likelihood of making a difference at scale is remote.

Another type of person dislikes a trend but has given up, and just accepts that this is the way things are and there's nothing they can do.  And then even attempts to paint others as not understanding this "truth" when they don't share the same position.

I suppose there's another type too - the ones who like rampant price inflation because it prices those who are less well-off out of a market.  And what's the point of being successful if it's means you can't take advantage over those less successful than yourself?  I say "take advantage" because that would have to also mean a person has to accept that Butterfly stuff is inherently better than other equipment in some definitive way too.  A combination of two positions I think should be pushed back against.

I just can't understand why people don't want to rail against higher prices.  I'm amazed that anyone would want to shut that discussion down, especially at a time when Butterfly are testing the market to see what it will bear.  It's one thing to not want to get involved in that discussion - fine.  But wanting to shut it down entirely?  I just can't fathom it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mickael Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2019 at 1:57pm
Originally posted by Tajny1989 Tajny1989 wrote:



it is very unprofessional to make a video in a language no one understands. good reviews are often watched if they have an English subtitle.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slowhand Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2019 at 3:14pm
Originally posted by AndySmith AndySmith wrote:

I just can't understand why people don't want to rail against higher prices.
I get your point and agree that it's not fair that everyone doesn't have equal access to the best equipment. On the other hand, the existence of cutting edge technology in any field depends on research and development. That's often expensive, always risky, and anyone who does it expects to get paid for bearing the cost and taking the risk.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2019 at 4:17pm
Originally posted by Mickael Mickael wrote:

i would have paid for it 2 x more if it was a better tenergy. i bought 3 sheets and tried on different blades. it does not play like any rubber out there. i was hoping for a tenergy feel speed spin celluloid era with the poly ball. nothing like that completely unexpected behaviour nothing i have learned or mastered. completely unplayable. it is for timo, liu shiwen....

What blade did you try it on?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bard romance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2019 at 4:26pm
Originally posted by AndySmith AndySmith wrote:

Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

I still think it's misleading to focus on the price here. 

Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

This is called economics.  If you think this doesn't happen with *everything else* you buy (clothes, food, phone, etc.), that you don't really understand the real world.

Good grief, passive aggressive much?

One type of person dislikes a trend and, through discussion, tries to show how that trend is bad.  They actively try to push back, even if the likelihood of making a difference at scale is remote.

Another type of person dislikes a trend but has given up, and just accepts that this is the way things are and there's nothing they can do.  And then even attempts to paint others as not understanding this "truth" when they don't share the same position.

I suppose there's another type too - the ones who like rampant price inflation because it prices those who are less well-off out of a market.  And what's the point of being successful if it's means you can't take advantage over those less successful than yourself?  I say "take advantage" because that would have to also mean a person has to accept that Butterfly stuff is inherently better than other equipment in some definitive way too.  A combination of two positions I think should be pushed back against.

I just can't understand why people don't want to rail against higher prices.  I'm amazed that anyone would want to shut that discussion down, especially at a time when Butterfly are testing the market to see what it will bear.  It's one thing to not want to get involved in that discussion - fine.  But wanting to shut it down entirely?  I just can't fathom it.


A few separate thoughts:

1) I get the impression that benfb was slightly triggered at tom's, in my opinion unnecessary, use of the phrase "Butterfly fanboy". This would imply that there aren't people out there who actually prefer Dignics independent of it being a Butterfly rubber, which is demonstrably false. The same way that some people would prefer not to spend X amount of money on a rubber, those who do choose to buy it don't want to feel ridiculed for their choice. I do sympathize with not wanting price inflation across the board, but no need to be condescending to the people who do choose to purchase the top-end stuff - comes across as sour grapes.

2) It seems pretty commonly accepted that Tenergy will perform at a high level for much longer than many of those 40-60 range rubbers out there, so the cost over time for Tenergy/Dignics really may not be more. Why do we not hear more complaint threads about how recent ESN rubbers invariably perform like sh*t after the factory boosting quickly wears off, and the price for using rubbers for a year will be comparable to using Tenergy/Dignics? I guess the price tag is easier to look at than a more long term outlook.

3) If Dignics does indeed provide some advantages over Tenergy, which I think many might agree is a fairly priced rubber given its durability, stability both in play and over time, etc - then what price increase is acceptable? Should Butterfly not deserve to charge an increase for a perceived positive development? Clearly in the initial month or two of release, a lot of people have felt compelled to try it - if over time, sales show that the market has embraced the product as an improvement from what existed, why shouldn't a higher price point exist? Conversely, if people rapidly switch back to Tenergy rubbers, the price of Dignics will for sure come down.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2019 at 5:37pm
Originally posted by Mickael Mickael wrote:

Originally posted by Tajny1989 Tajny1989 wrote:



it is very unprofessional to make a video in a language no one understands. good reviews are often watched if they have an English subtitle.

It has English subtitles 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vik2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2019 at 5:58pm
Originally posted by jpenmaster jpenmaster wrote:


ZJK: You are wrong Coach Liu. The best paddle is Zhang Jike ALC because my name is on it. 


Edited by vik2000 - 05/19/2019 at 5:58pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2019 at 11:45pm
I know this has been mentioned before, but just to re-iterate: if the price of Dignics is too high in your opinion, do not buy it.  If enough people do that, Butterfly will drop the price or drop the product depending on their cost of making and marketing it.

It is really as simple as that.  I do not understand why I have to "rail against" the price of Dignics 05.  

I did not rail against the price on National H3 when I played with that.  I did not rail against the effective price of H2 Neo when I had to buy ten sheets to get two that played the way I wanted (that worked out to be similar to Tenergy price if I recall correctly since I ended up throwing out 80% of the rubbers I bough).  I did not rail against the price of early tensors that would die after ten hours of practicing.  Back in the glue days, I distinctly recall not railing against the price of Sriver FX. It was awesome on my BH, but nicely glued up it bubbled after 3-4 hours of looping practice, so I always had a few.  That was basically a one tournament rubber.

Somehow, almost every rubber I play with turns out to cost more or less the same overall if averaged out over several months of play.

I went full circle, having tried everything under the sun, and came back to Tenergy and now Dignics, because it all costs about the same in the end, but at least I do not have to spend time on replacing rubbers every month.  All that takes time and time has value.  If Dignics lasts longer than Tenergy, it will end up costing me less.

It is simply a matter of spending more money in one shot, vs the same amount of money a little at a time.  If some other people out there can not afford to do the one shot thing, how is it my problem?  Why do I need to worry about other people's table tennis equipment spending preferences?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bard romance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2019 at 1:00am
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

If some other people out there can not afford to do the one shot thing, how is it my problem?  Why do I need to worry about other people's table tennis equipment spending preferences?

ILya

Was going to post this as well and didn’t - but yeah, if people want to protest, by all means go for it by not buying, but don’t go around calling others fanboys or foolish buyers when, more simply, they found a product that they liked. Dignics is a good rubber in many aspects. Some may find it beneficial to their game and worth whatever extra price there is. And how it may affect the potential future rubber pricing market doesn’t really enter the picture for most. 


Edited by bard romance - 05/20/2019 at 1:13am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2019 at 4:28am
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

I know this has been mentioned before, but just to re-iterate: if the price of Dignics is too high in your opinion, do not buy it.  If enough people do that, Butterfly will drop the price or drop the product depending on their cost of making and marketing it.

It is really as simple as that.  I do not understand why I have to "rail against" the price of Dignics 05.  


You don't have to rail against it.  No one is asking people to do anything they don't want to, and it's totally fine to not agree.

However, what's happening on this thread is that people are being asked to not talk about the pricing, or if they do talk about pricing their understanding of economics is being called into question.  It's one thing to have a position, but it's another to try to silence/shame/belittle others.  The posts above are pretty tame and subtle really, but on previous pages people have said that talking about price "causes confusion", and that people aren't interested in "financial status".  Staggering, IMO.

Personally, I find the price increase of mainline TT rubbers (I exclude stuff like H3 Nat here because it's never had the mass market availability of most) disturbing.  I think it's worth including Xiom in that for their retail price of Omega 7 too, but it's still possible to find deep discounts on that with a little effort.  Butterfly's eye-gouging pricing, combined with their territorial restrictions, is worrying.  I hope that they will change course, however unlikely that may seem (Rozena's discounts in Asian markets gives a sliver of hope).  I can tell you what won't help though - doing nothing, or telling people to stop talking about the price.  On a basic level, the market will bear it or it won't.  But the general impression that it's not OK, or at least worrying to some consumers, might shift opinion enough to make a difference.

Dignics is just one more rubber, some will like it, others won't.  The only way it justifies the price for me is if it really does have some magical durability increase, otherwise all I can see is another good rubber from Butterfly attached to a marketplace experiment which I hope people can remain suspicious of.  A sliver of skepticism is all I can hope for.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2019 at 4:56am
As I've written before, Europe and US get shafted hard here. Prices for ESN rubbers have lowered across the board in Hong Kong thanks to Rozena, even lower in mainland China.

Dignics is doing pretty well in terms of sales in Japan.
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= 184.8g
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