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    Posted: 04/04/2019 at 11:26am
Not sure if it's a good idea but I'm adapting TT strokes into my weight training. Note that using a racket is optional in these cable exercises and only recommended for those who don't mind being stared at by the entire gym.

We need to build a ball to keep the illegal servers from entering our tournaments.
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I have done a similar exercise except I used a small dumbbell and also tried to stay on my toes and "bounce" between strokes. I also have used side to side movements after each "stroke" with the BH and done 10 with a final FH loopkill like stroke. I use light weights-5-8 lbs. Never more than 10.
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heavyspin, I know you're a powerlifter, but if you are doing this exercise for your Pong game, you would likely gain more benefit from dropping down a couple of plates and focusing on form at a little faster pace in order to activate the fast twitch fibers more fully.
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Originally posted by vanjr vanjr wrote:

I have done a similar exercise except I used a small dumbbell and also tried to stay on my toes and "bounce" between strokes. I also have used side to side movements after each "stroke" with the BH and done 10 with a final FH loopkill like stroke. I use light weights-5-8 lbs. Never more than 10.
that's not really effective. Using Dumbbells means that your working against gravity rather than using resistance from the side.
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Originally posted by LOG1C1AN LOG1C1AN wrote:

heavyspin, I know you're a powerlifter, but if you are doing this exercise for your Pong game, you would likely gain more benefit from dropping down a couple of plates and focusing on form at a little faster pace in order to activate the fast twitch fibers more fully.

Is that accurate? 

I've never heard of heavy weights being lifted, whether slowly or quickly, not activating fast twitch fibers better than light weights. Doing the lighter weight, even at a faster pace would not target the maximal fast twitch muscles as well -- which one of those is better for TT, idk, depends on what the player needs more of 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/05/2019 at 1:53am
You can do this at home with cheapass resistance bands too if you don't feel like going to the gym...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vanjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/05/2019 at 9:19am
Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

Originally posted by vanjr vanjr wrote:

I have done a similar exercise except I used a small dumbbell and also tried to stay on my toes and "bounce" between strokes. I also have used side to side movements after each "stroke" with the BH and done 10 with a final FH loopkill like stroke. I use light weights-5-8 lbs. Never more than 10.
that's not really effective. Using Dumbbells means that your working against gravity rather than using resistance from the side.

You may be right, my BH is nothing to brag about. But I am not sure I understand your point. Using what heavyspin is using causes resistance. My technigue really mimics my BH (such as it is). I need to get a short phone video to demonstrate. I think my way is superior, but I am usually wrong (ask my wife). If I could just get some dumbells with smaller grips like my blade...
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Originally posted by vanjr vanjr wrote:

But I am not sure I understand your point. Using what heavyspin is using causes resistance. My technigue really mimics my BH (such as it is). 
I think this is what's meant. With the cable/pulley system, I'm moving my arm against a sideways force. With a dumbbell, you're moving against a downward force.
We need to build a ball to keep the illegal servers from entering our tournaments.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vanjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/05/2019 at 11:27am
Originally posted by heavyspin heavyspin wrote:

Originally posted by vanjr vanjr wrote:

But I am not sure I understand your point. Using what heavyspin is using causes resistance. My technigue really mimics my BH (such as it is). 
I think this is what's meant. With the cable/pulley system, I'm moving my arm against a sideways force. With a dumbbell, you're moving against a downward force.

A downward force? You mean like doing a table tennis stroke?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote heavyspin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/05/2019 at 12:50pm
Originally posted by vanjr vanjr wrote:

Originally posted by heavyspin heavyspin wrote:

Originally posted by vanjr vanjr wrote:

But I am not sure I understand your point. Using what heavyspin is using causes resistance. My technigue really mimics my BH (such as it is). 
I think this is what's meant. With the cable/pulley system, I'm moving my arm against a sideways force. With a dumbbell, you're moving against a downward force.

A downward force? You mean like doing a table tennis stroke?
If your tt stroke takes a near vertical path, then yes. I hope that's not the case.
We need to build a ball to keep the illegal servers from entering our tournaments.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tt Gold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/05/2019 at 2:13pm
Originally posted by heavyspin heavyspin wrote:

Originally posted by vanjr vanjr wrote:

But I am not sure I understand your point. Using what heavyspin is using causes resistance. My technigue really mimics my BH (such as it is). 
I think this is what's meant. With the cable/pulley system, I'm moving my arm against a sideways force. With a dumbbell, you're moving against a downward force.
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When I did bh shadow practice once with a light dumbbell (I think it was 1 lbs), the muscle pain was way too intense the day after and it scared me. I had pulled a deltoid a few years earlier (2 months not playing because the week after it would come back with the 1st smash even though it felt healed) and I thought it happened again. I never did it since.
I fail to see how the sideways pull is useful for the fh loop. Weight transfer and hips thrust deserve more attention and that would come from the legs and core on top of which the arm would have to be super quick: the sideways pull will not make the arm faster, just stronger and heavier however the sideways pull is surely great for the obliques so maybe it's a moot point.
Resistance bands is the way, there are plenty of tutorials out there to take care of the whole body. Gym machines and weight training are evil: without an expensive coach, it is so easy to do things wrong and hurt ourselves.


Edited by fatt - 04/05/2019 at 4:06pm
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Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

When I did bh shadow practice once with a light dumbbell (I think it was 1 lbs), the muscle pain was way too intense the day after and it scared me. I had pulled a deltoid a few years earlier (2 months not playing because the week after it would come back with the 1st smash even though it felt healed) and I thought it happened again. I never did it since.
I fail to see how the sideways pull is useful for the fh loop. Weight transfer and hips thrust deserve more attention and that would come from the legs and core on top of which the arm would have to be super quick: the sideways pull will not make the arm faster, just stronger and heavier however the sideways pull is surely great for the obliques so maybe it's a moot point.
Resistance bands is the way, there are plenty of tutorials out there to take care of the whole body. Gym machines and weight training are evil: without an expensive coach, it is so easy to do things wrong and hurt ourselves.
I disagree with a few things here. First thing is that working against resistance will help your shot. After doing something with added weight, switching back to the real thing will feel much easier. You can actually move faster as you it will feel lighter to move the racket for example. Overall it also helps to keep your body in shape, which will increase the quality of the shot. Gym training isn't evil at all. Yes in our society it can be evil in a lot of cases, but that's because it's our societies fault. You don't need an expensive coach. A lot of coaches don't even know what their talking about. With some research on the internet you can get everything you need to know. BUT same with the coaches, and that's also what I meant with societies fault, there is a lot of bs on the Internet. There are so many exercises that hurt the body, but they are still commonly portrait as good exercises. Especially the fitness industry is full of misinformation. There are only a few guys out there that actually put out good informative content. My best recommendation for looking up good information on training would be to check out "Athlean X" on YouTube. He's covered so many things, from exercises to injury prevention and so on. There's a good chance he's covered what one's looking for. But for us table tennis players it's of course more important to focus on exercises that prevent injuries and increase our flexibility. That should be number one priority.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/05/2019 at 10:30pm
I wouldn't recommend shadow practice with a dumbbell, that seems like a recipe for injury imo...there's certain positions (especially when the elbow is raised) where the shoulder joint is very vulnerable to impingement. 

It's a bit different with resistance bands or cable machines...the loading is completely different but still you need to know what you're doing...



Edited by blahness - 04/05/2019 at 10:31pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/05/2019 at 10:41pm
Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

When I did bh shadow practice once with a light dumbbell (I think it was 1 lbs), the muscle pain was way too intense the day after and it scared me. I had pulled a deltoid a few years earlier (2 months not playing because the week after it would come back with the 1st smash even though it felt healed) and I thought it happened again. I never did it since.
I fail to see how the sideways pull is useful for the fh loop. Weight transfer and hips thrust deserve more attention and that would come from the legs and core on top of which the arm would have to be super quick: the sideways pull will not make the arm faster, just stronger and heavier however the sideways pull is surely great for the obliques so maybe it's a moot point.
Resistance bands is the way, there are plenty of tutorials out there to take care of the whole body. Gym machines and weight training are evil: without an expensive coach, it is so easy to do things wrong and hurt ourselves.
I disagree with a few things here. First thing is that working against resistance will help your shot. After doing something with added weight, switching back to the real thing will feel much easier. You can actually move faster as you it will feel lighter to move the racket for example. Overall it also helps to keep your body in shape, which will increase the quality of the shot. Gym training isn't evil at all. Yes in our society it can be evil in a lot of cases, but that's because it's our societies fault. You don't need an expensive coach. A lot of coaches don't even know what their talking about. With some research on the internet you can get everything you need to know. BUT same with the coaches, and that's also what I meant with societies fault, there is a lot of bs on the Internet. There are so many exercises that hurt the body, but they are still commonly portrait as good exercises. Especially the fitness industry is full of misinformation. There are only a few guys out there that actually put out good informative content. My best recommendation for looking up good information on training would be to check out "Athlean X" on YouTube. He's covered so many things, from exercises to injury prevention and so on. There's a good chance he's covered what one's looking for. But for us table tennis players it's of course more important to focus on exercises that prevent injuries and increase our flexibility. That should be number one priority.

Totally agree, especially people using the trunk rotation machine and using lumbar rotation instead of thoracic rotation, and the worst is sit ups where people just bend at their waist for every single rep. Deadlifting with a hunched back is worse, that and presses with the arm in a pronated position from start to end.... There's also a lot that can go wrong in barbell squats if you don't know the correct technique...knee shear, lower back bending, etc... 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lula Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/06/2019 at 5:46am
Beware of the risk of injuries. Think rubber band with less resistance is better. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FruitLoop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/06/2019 at 9:28am
I'd stick to basics with weight training and allow your TT training to be your sport specific development. Trying to recreate sports movements is of very dubious benefit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FruitLoop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/06/2019 at 9:29am
Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

When I did bh shadow practice once with a light dumbbell (I think it was 1 lbs), the muscle pain was way too intense the day after and it scared me. I had pulled a deltoid a few years earlier (2 months not playing because the week after it would come back with the 1st smash even though it felt healed) and I thought it happened again. I never did it since.
I fail to see how the sideways pull is useful for the fh loop. Weight transfer and hips thrust deserve more attention and that would come from the legs and core on top of which the arm would have to be super quick: the sideways pull will not make the arm faster, just stronger and heavier however the sideways pull is surely great for the obliques so maybe it's a moot point.
Resistance bands is the way, there are plenty of tutorials out there to take care of the whole body. Gym machines and weight training are evil: without an expensive coach, it is so easy to do things wrong and hurt ourselves.
I disagree with a few things here. First thing is that working against resistance will help your shot. After doing something with added weight, switching back to the real thing will feel much easier. You can actually move faster as you it will feel lighter to move the racket for example. Overall it also helps to keep your body in shape, which will increase the quality of the shot. Gym training isn't evil at all. Yes in our society it can be evil in a lot of cases, but that's because it's our societies fault. You don't need an expensive coach. A lot of coaches don't even know what their talking about. With some research on the internet you can get everything you need to know. BUT same with the coaches, and that's also what I meant with societies fault, there is a lot of bs on the Internet. There are so many exercises that hurt the body, but they are still commonly portrait as good exercises. Especially the fitness industry is full of misinformation. There are only a few guys out there that actually put out good informative content. My best recommendation for looking up good information on training would be to check out "Athlean X" on YouTube. He's covered so many things, from exercises to injury prevention and so on. There's a good chance he's covered what one's looking for. But for us table tennis players it's of course more important to focus on exercises that prevent injuries and increase our flexibility. That should be number one priority.

There's a lot of research that suggests you are wrong. If you train slower you will hurt your technique not help it even if it feels lighter. For example baseball players don't swing weighted bats anymore. It doesn't matter that it feels lighter, you wont actually be swinging faster, yoully actually be swinging slower due to fatigue. It's all in your head.

Do basic strengthening exercises like squats, deadlifts etc and use your TT training for the specifics. Trying to recreate technique with added resistance is a no no.


Edited by FruitLoop - 04/06/2019 at 9:31am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tt Gold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/06/2019 at 10:15am
Originally posted by FruitLoop FruitLoop wrote:

Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

When I did bh shadow practice once with a light dumbbell (I think it was 1 lbs), the muscle pain was way too intense the day after and it scared me. I had pulled a deltoid a few years earlier (2 months not playing because the week after it would come back with the 1st smash even though it felt healed) and I thought it happened again. I never did it since.
I fail to see how the sideways pull is useful for the fh loop. Weight transfer and hips thrust deserve more attention and that would come from the legs and core on top of which the arm would have to be super quick: the sideways pull will not make the arm faster, just stronger and heavier however the sideways pull is surely great for the obliques so maybe it's a moot point.
Resistance bands is the way, there are plenty of tutorials out there to take care of the whole body. Gym machines and weight training are evil: without an expensive coach, it is so easy to do things wrong and hurt ourselves.
I disagree with a few things here. First thing is that working against resistance will help your shot. After doing something with added weight, switching back to the real thing will feel much easier. You can actually move faster as you it will feel lighter to move the racket for example. Overall it also helps to keep your body in shape, which will increase the quality of the shot. Gym training isn't evil at all. Yes in our society it can be evil in a lot of cases, but that's because it's our societies fault. You don't need an expensive coach. A lot of coaches don't even know what their talking about. With some research on the internet you can get everything you need to know. BUT same with the coaches, and that's also what I meant with societies fault, there is a lot of bs on the Internet. There are so many exercises that hurt the body, but they are still commonly portrait as good exercises. Especially the fitness industry is full of misinformation. There are only a few guys out there that actually put out good informative content. My best recommendation for looking up good information on training would be to check out "Athlean X" on YouTube. He's covered so many things, from exercises to injury prevention and so on. There's a good chance he's covered what one's looking for. But for us table tennis players it's of course more important to focus on exercises that prevent injuries and increase our flexibility. That should be number one priority.

There's a lot of research that suggests you are wrong. If you train slower you will hurt your technique not help it even if it feels lighter. For example baseball players don't swing weighted bats anymore. It doesn't matter that it feels lighter, you wont actually be swinging faster, yoully actually be swinging slower due to fatigue. It's all in your head.

Do basic strengthening exercises like squats, deadlifts etc and use your TT training for the specifics. Trying to recreate technique with added resistance is a no no.
"You can actually move faster as you it will feel lighter to move the racket for example. Overall it also helps to keep your body in shape, which will increase the quality of the shot." I never said that you should train slower. So if you don't have anything against my other claims then you shouldn't say it's wrong. Again, if you train with resistance you'll strengthen your body in that area and thus you'll be able to increase your consistency and shot quality.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FruitLoop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/06/2019 at 8:53pm
Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

Originally posted by FruitLoop FruitLoop wrote:

Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

When I did bh shadow practice once with a light dumbbell (I think it was 1 lbs), the muscle pain was way too intense the day after and it scared me. I had pulled a deltoid a few years earlier (2 months not playing because the week after it would come back with the 1st smash even though it felt healed) and I thought it happened again. I never did it since.
I fail to see how the sideways pull is useful for the fh loop. Weight transfer and hips thrust deserve more attention and that would come from the legs and core on top of which the arm would have to be super quick: the sideways pull will not make the arm faster, just stronger and heavier however the sideways pull is surely great for the obliques so maybe it's a moot point.
Resistance bands is the way, there are plenty of tutorials out there to take care of the whole body. Gym machines and weight training are evil: without an expensive coach, it is so easy to do things wrong and hurt ourselves.
I disagree with a few things here. First thing is that working against resistance will help your shot. After doing something with added weight, switching back to the real thing will feel much easier. You can actually move faster as you it will feel lighter to move the racket for example. Overall it also helps to keep your body in shape, which will increase the quality of the shot. Gym training isn't evil at all. Yes in our society it can be evil in a lot of cases, but that's because it's our societies fault. You don't need an expensive coach. A lot of coaches don't even know what their talking about. With some research on the internet you can get everything you need to know. BUT same with the coaches, and that's also what I meant with societies fault, there is a lot of bs on the Internet. There are so many exercises that hurt the body, but they are still commonly portrait as good exercises. Especially the fitness industry is full of misinformation. There are only a few guys out there that actually put out good informative content. My best recommendation for looking up good information on training would be to check out "Athlean X" on YouTube. He's covered so many things, from exercises to injury prevention and so on. There's a good chance he's covered what one's looking for. But for us table tennis players it's of course more important to focus on exercises that prevent injuries and increase our flexibility. That should be number one priority.

There's a lot of research that suggests you are wrong. If you train slower you will hurt your technique not help it even if it feels lighter. For example baseball players don't swing weighted bats anymore. It doesn't matter that it feels lighter, you wont actually be swinging faster, yoully actually be swinging slower due to fatigue. It's all in your head.

Do basic strengthening exercises like squats, deadlifts etc and use your TT training for the specifics. Trying to recreate technique with added resistance is a no no.
"You can actually move faster as you it will feel lighter to move the racket for example. Overall it also helps to keep your body in shape, which will increase the quality of the shot." I never said that you should train slower. So if you don't have anything against my other claims then you shouldn't say it's wrong. Again, if you train with resistance you'll strengthen your body in that area and thus you'll be able to increase your consistency and shot quality.
 

You didn't say but you didn't have to say. Training with resistance=training slower this is a simple fact. You won't increase those things though. You would be wasting your time. No technical sports elite performers do this. Ma Long doesn't do it. There is no evidence to support it and plenty of evidence against.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tt Gold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/06/2019 at 9:00pm
funny how you talk about evidence so much, but don't feel the need to actually provide evidence. You know why using resistance is so great? Cause it helps your stability. No professional athlete does it? Alright sir.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote heavyspin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/07/2019 at 10:56am
Clearly from my recent play, my poor conditioning has hindered my play tremendously - I'm probably playing with a 400 rating point disadvantage. If I want to compete well at the Nationals, I need to step up my cardio fitness and agility with less emphasis on lifting heavy weights. I'll try this workout. Designed for wrestlers, but it looks good for table tennis.



We need to build a ball to keep the illegal servers from entering our tournaments.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/09/2019 at 6:10pm
Originally posted by heavyspin heavyspin wrote:

Clearly from my recent play, my poor conditioning has hindered my play tremendously - I'm probably playing with a 400 rating point disadvantage. If I want to compete well at the Nationals, I need to step up my cardio fitness and agility with less emphasis on lifting heavy weights. I'll try this workout. Designed for wrestlers, but it looks good for table tennis.




Have you tried boxing? Heard that many TT pros are taking it up too!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tt Gold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/10/2019 at 6:02pm
I'd recommend swimming. Burns a lot of calories and is also easy on the joints. Doing a lot of conditioning is good for [email protected] heavyspin, but I don't recommend sprints or plyometrics for you if I'm totally honest. I don't think you're gonna take this the wrong way, but at your weight those exercises are unhealthy for your joints and so on. Don't want you to get injuredSmile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/10/2019 at 7:26pm
Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

When I did bh shadow practice once with a light dumbbell (I think it was 1 lbs), the muscle pain was way too intense the day after and it scared me. I had pulled a deltoid a few years earlier (2 months not playing because the week after it would come back with the 1st smash even though it felt healed) and I thought it happened again. I never did it since.
I fail to see how the sideways pull is useful for the fh loop. Weight transfer and hips thrust deserve more attention and that would come from the legs and core on top of which the arm would have to be super quick: the sideways pull will not make the arm faster, just stronger and heavier however the sideways pull is surely great for the obliques so maybe it's a moot point.
Resistance bands is the way, there are plenty of tutorials out there to take care of the whole body. Gym machines and weight training are evil: without an expensive coach, it is so easy to do things wrong and hurt ourselves.
I disagree with a few things here. First thing is that working against resistance will help your shot. After doing something with added weight, switching back to the real thing will feel much easier. You can actually move faster as you it will feel lighter to move the racket for example. Overall it also helps to keep your body in shape, which will increase the quality of the shot. Gym training isn't evil at all. Yes in our society it can be evil in a lot of cases, but that's because it's our societies fault. You don't need an expensive coach. A lot of coaches don't even know what their talking about. With some research on the internet you can get everything you need to know. BUT same with the coaches, and that's also what I meant with societies fault, there is a lot of bs on the Internet. There are so many exercises that hurt the body, but they are still commonly portrait as good exercises. Especially the fitness industry is full of misinformation. There are only a few guys out there that actually put out good informative content. My best recommendation for looking up good information on training would be to check out "Athlean X" on YouTube. He's covered so many things, from exercises to injury prevention and so on. There's a good chance he's covered what one's looking for. But for us table tennis players it's of course more important to focus on exercises that prevent injuries and increase our flexibility. That should be number one priority.

Btw do you have any exercises you would recommend?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tt Gold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/11/2019 at 6:24am
number one priority should be on mobility. Having good mobility will decrease the risk of injury and also add quality to your shots. After that you can focus on strengthening. I'd say the most important things to train are you're core (abs, glutes, lower back). Training your legs is also important, but that doesn't have to be with weights. You can also do HIIT to increase your speed. Putting emphasis on stability is very important, at least for me. You can also train your hamstrings, while training your glutes (bridges). I think if you're stabile in the core area and have good hip mobility, then you're at low risk of injury.
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