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Germany in Decline? Rosskopf: Working to Revert It

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    Posted: 05/17/2019 at 12:19pm
http://sports.sina.com.cn/others/pingpang/2019-05-15/doc-ihvhiqax8779048.shtml

Playing career: Atlanta Olympics and WTTC Dortmund the most memorable

TTW: How was the daily routine of the German team back in your time as a player? Did European associations organize joint training camp before the competition?

Rosskopf: Back then, the German national team rarely invited players from other associations to train together, but most of my time in the club was spent with players from many countries, such as Primorac, Saive, Liang Geliang, and He Zhiwen et al. By training with players of different styles, we could improve our abilities to deal with various tactics.

TTW: When did coach Li Xianjue start coaching you? How'd you rate this him?

Rosskopf: In 1986, I enrolled at the German Table Tennis Association's sports school in Duisburg. At that time, Li Xianjue was there as a technical and multi-ball coach. We all called him Mr. Li. But as early as 1983, I had contact with him when I participated in the training of the German national team. He was a member of the coaching team of the German national team at that time. Then in 1988, I left the sports school to join the Düsseldorf club. We were together almost every day during that time. His multi-ball training was a brand new method, which is very important to improve my technical level, especially in correcting our strokes. Coach Li was very kind. His German was not very fluent at first, but it posed no problem with the communication in table tennis, which surprised me.

TTW: In 1998, you won the Men's World Cup in China. What kind of feeling was that?

Rosskopf: The level between the European players and the Chinese players who participated in that edition was very close. I had a good draw, meeting Primorac and Kim Taeksoo early on, and I was more comfortable with their style of play. As the tournament progressed, I found that everyone was very nervous. Everyone had a chance to win. I was just more lucky, getting the only World Cup title in my life. I didn't have a coach([don't know his German name] was away because of JOOLA's job), didn't have a masseur, and had to take an interview with a German reporter back home over the phone before the semi-final and final. It's incredible to think about it now. Ever since the Chinese team regained the WTTC titles in 1995, the atmosphere of table tennis in China has improved greatly. The spectators were very enthusiastic and the stadium was filled almost every match.

TTW: What is the most memorable match in your career?

Rosskopf: The most memorable singles match was the quarter-final of the Atlanta Olympics 1996. I played against Kim Taeksoo. Because that was a medal match, it was very intense and ecstatic, and fortunately I defeated him. Another unforgettable doubles match was the men's doubles final at the WTTC Dortmund 1989. Playing on home soil, the audience gave me and Fetzner the courage to win.

Coaching career: Hard at work to change the generation gap of the team

TTW: Is it a natural process when transitioning from player to coach? Or is it a well thought-out decision?

Rosskopf: This was decided after careful considerations. During my player career, I had met many excellent coaches. I got a lot of help and inspiration in working and speaking with them. So for a long time, I have always had the idea of taking up ​​coaching after retiring.

TTW: In China, many excellent players strive to become coaches of the national team after retiring. But in Europe, it's rare to take over the national team coach directly after retiring like you. Why do you think this is the case?

Rosskopf: This situation is indeed a very regrettable for European table tennis. Many excellent players have accumulated a lot of valuable experience in their careers, but they have not been able to continue to pass it on. This is a huge loss. I think there are many reasons for this. In Asia, for example, a team can consist of a bunch of experienced coaches working together, which is incomparable for European teams. In addition, European coaches are not well-paid. Players generally have relatively longer careers, normally playing well into their 30s. Once they retire, they want a different life, because coaching may be more tiring than playing.

TTW: The German team is still recognized as the most powerful team in Europe. What is the current status in terms of the echelon?

Rosskopf: We have Boll and Ovtcharov on the team for the time being, so we are still a strong team in Europe and in the world, but beyond them, the German team actually has a generation gap. Due to the reform of the educational system, the enlightenment period and growth period of German teenagers are now postponed, so the younger generation of players generally lack sufficient training time. Most people start their careers after graduating at 18 years old. Boll and I both joined the Bundesliga when we were 14 years old. The training of the reserve echelon is not only a problem for the German team, but also a problem for the entire European table tennis. Nowadays, young players have a lot of hobbies, and they all hope to get early results, but they have neglected hard training and techniques. We are actively working in hopes of changing this situation.

TTW: There are a lot of newcomers in Asia now. Is there anyone who has left you an impression?

Rosskopf: Other than the Chinese players, Harimoto is outstanding. He is very talented and hardworking; Jang Woojin is also a fantastic player. Asian players in general start out very early, and the financial investment is also very large. European players cannot compare with them in this respect.

Excerpt from Table Tennis World, Volume 5, 2019

Edited by zeio - 05/17/2019 at 12:32pm
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
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= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aerial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/18/2019 at 3:31pm
the CNT definitely seem to be the most consistent in terms of retention of their old world class players into coaches. 

surprising germany doesn't have more retention, but i guess it makes sense after reading the interview excerpt, combination of evergreen players and then said players wanting to do other things instead of coaching as coaching can be even more tiring than being a player
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Simon_plays Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2019 at 2:59am
I reckon Boll and Steger will go into coaching and both could probably be very successful in that field but can't see Dima go down that route somehow. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2019 at 12:22pm
Maybe for Boll. Steger, I'm not so sure.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2019 at 12:44pm
Originally posted by Simon_plays Simon_plays wrote:

I reckon Boll and Steger will go into coaching and both could probably be very successful in that field but can't see Dima go down that route somehow. 

Germany is be behind in junior events many countries like sweden and romania have new players but beside boll and dima they dont have players
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Simon_plays Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2019 at 1:06pm
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Maybe for Boll. Steger, I'm not so sure.

Why not Steger? I'm basing my statement purely on my subjective impression of how he carries himself at matches and how he is one of those players who's played at the highest level for such a long time.

As for Boll, he has mentioned somewhere that he's considering coaching now (and his TB webcoach is arguably a small step in that direction). 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2019 at 1:28pm


Edited by zeio - 05/19/2019 at 1:29pm
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piligrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2019 at 1:47pm
Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by Simon_plays Simon_plays wrote:

I reckon Boll and Steger will go into coaching and both could probably be very successful in that field but can't see Dima go down that route somehow. 


Germany is be behind in junior events many countries like sweden and romania have new players but beside boll and dima they dont have players



what about Filus and Patrick?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tt Gold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2019 at 4:35pm
Originally posted by piligrim piligrim wrote:

Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by Simon_plays Simon_plays wrote:

I reckon Boll and Steger will go into coaching and both could probably be very successful in that field but can't see Dima go down that route somehow. 


Germany is be behind in junior events many countries like sweden and romania have new players but beside boll and dima they dont have players



what about Filus and Patrick?
there Are a few players coming up, but the are still nowhere near international male level. My bet is on Duda though, as he is probably in the top 5 in Europe when it comes to hard work. If he doesn’t burn out, he’ll slowly outwork the rest.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2019 at 12:47pm
Originally posted by piligrim piligrim wrote:

Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by Simon_plays Simon_plays wrote:

I reckon Boll and Steger will go into coaching and both could probably be very successful in that field but can't see Dima go down that route somehow. 


Germany is be behind in junior events many countries like sweden and romania have new players but beside boll and dima they dont have players



what about Filus and Patrick?

Well they re not as dangerous like truls pletea indians players..etc maybe only duda
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Pimple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2019 at 1:33pm
Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by piligrim piligrim wrote:

Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by Simon_plays Simon_plays wrote:

I reckon Boll and Steger will go into coaching and both could probably be very successful in that field but can't see Dima go down that route somehow. 


Germany is be behind in junior events many countries like sweden and romania have new players but beside boll and dima they dont have players



what about Filus and Patrick?

Well they re not as dangerous like truls pletea indians players..etc maybe only duda
Would you mind to explain this? Filus has been as high 18 and Patrick as high as 13 in the world! None of the guys you mentioned have been anywhere near as high and may never get there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Simon_plays Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2019 at 2:01pm
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:


Shocked

I take it this was an isolated incident. Sleepy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2019 at 2:25pm
Patrick has been doing well, but Ruwen not so much.  He's dropped down to WR# 87 and his results from the past 12 months show it.  He's also 31 years old so he's getting up there in years.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote balldance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2019 at 2:47pm
Originally posted by Matt Pimple Matt Pimple wrote:

Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by piligrim piligrim wrote:

Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by Simon_plays Simon_plays wrote:

I reckon Boll and Steger will go into coaching and both could probably be very successful in that field but can't see Dima go down that route somehow. 


Germany is be behind in junior events many countries like sweden and romania have new players but beside boll and dima they dont have players



what about Filus and Patrick?

Well they re not as dangerous like truls pletea indians players..etc maybe only duda
Would you mind to explain this? Filus has been as high 18 and Patrick as high as 13 in the world! None of the guys you mentioned have been anywhere near as high and may never get there.


I think he is talking about junior players (under 20-21), Filus and Franziska are not really "junior" anymore. Filus is already 31 (1988), I doubt he can improve much more. Franziska is 26 (1992), he is still young enough for a European player but he's not the same level of Boll or Ovtcharov at the same age.
I can't think of any good U20 or even U23 German players, so there is definitely a gap.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/21/2019 at 2:13am
Originally posted by Matt Pimple Matt Pimple wrote:

Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by piligrim piligrim wrote:

Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by Simon_plays Simon_plays wrote:

I reckon Boll and Steger will go into coaching and both could probably be very successful in that field but can't see Dima go down that route somehow. 


Germany is be behind in junior events many countries like sweden and romania have new players but beside boll and dima they dont have players



what about Filus and Patrick?

Well they re not as dangerous like truls pletea indians players..etc maybe only duda
Would you mind to explain this? Filus has been as high 18 and Patrick as high as 13 in the world! None of the guys you mentioned have been anywhere near as high and may never get there.

Sweden romania taipei have juniors that can replace their senior players germany is one of the countries who dont have players at the juniors players. Pletea downed a chinese last junior worlds   a junior from india 
Pulled a 7th game to the best chinese cadet and truls.downed several chinese stars in 2017 junior worlds
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tt Gold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/21/2019 at 7:29am
it's hard to compare Germany to something like Sweden or Japan. Of course they can replace old players with new ones. But the level of the old players is not as high as the one of Boll or Dima. Franziska and Duda are good players. They just seem worse because they need to replace top world class players. If Franziska was from Sweden, he'd be "the" replacement for older guys. I think people forget that Franziska is already a top player. He won Germany the game in 2018 against Korea, winning against top Koreans.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FruitLoop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/21/2019 at 1:25pm
He's also runner up in last Euros... he'd be the Swedish number 2 not far behind the number 1 right now!

Germany also had the finalist in the last European u 21 championship. They have plenty of young players but no new Bolls. Same thing with France. They have many many more potential young players than Sweden do I have no idea what gave anyone the opposite impression. Take Truls out and who? He is a possibly generational European talent, already Swedish national champion. We will see.


Edited by FruitLoop - 05/21/2019 at 1:26pm
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Put it this way, if you had top 5 juniors and cadets Sweden vs Germany all play all, Germany would be massive favourites. They just don't have a Truls. But they have guys who can beat him sometimes. Same would apply to France. Same vs Romania.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote balldance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/21/2019 at 2:28pm
Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

it's hard to compare Germany to something like Sweden or Japan. Of course they can replace old players with new ones. But the level of the old players is not as high as the one of Boll or Dima. Franziska and Duda are good players. They just seem worse because they need to replace top world class players. If Franziska was from Sweden, he'd be "the" replacement for older guys. I think people forget that Franziska is already a top player. He won Germany the game in 2018 against Korea, winning against top Koreans.


ok, let's assume Germany have good junior players, but if they don't have potential to be new Boll or Dima, Germany table tennis will drop to Sweden or France current level, or worse. That's not what people expect from Germany because they are the top of Europe for a good while now. I expect them to match Japan and Korea. Japan, Korea and even Taiwan are producing many young talents and at this rate it'd be hard for Germany to match them just 5 years from now. It's like Sweden decline after Waldner's generation. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FruitLoop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/22/2019 at 6:14am
Originally posted by balldance balldance wrote:

Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

it's hard to compare Germany to something like Sweden or Japan. Of course they can replace old players with new ones. But the level of the old players is not as high as the one of Boll or Dima. Franziska and Duda are good players. They just seem worse because they need to replace top world class players. If Franziska was from Sweden, he'd be "the" replacement for older guys. I think people forget that Franziska is already a top player. He won Germany the game in 2018 against Korea, winning against top Koreans.


ok, let's assume Germany have good junior players, but if they don't have potential to be new Boll or Dima, Germany table tennis will drop to Sweden or France current level, or worse. That's not what people expect from Germany because they are the top of Europe for a good while now. I expect them to match Japan and Korea. Japan, Korea and even Taiwan are producing many young talents and at this rate it'd be hard for Germany to match them just 5 years from now. It's like Sweden decline after Waldner's generation. 

A new Boll or Dima might come along every 10 years. If they had a potential new Boll or Dima every year they would be competing with China not Japan or Korea.


Edited by FruitLoop - 05/22/2019 at 6:15am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote balldance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/22/2019 at 6:56am
Originally posted by FruitLoop FruitLoop wrote:

Originally posted by balldance balldance wrote:

Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

it's hard to compare Germany to something like Sweden or Japan. Of course they can replace old players with new ones. But the level of the old players is not as high as the one of Boll or Dima. Franziska and Duda are good players. They just seem worse because they need to replace top world class players. If Franziska was from Sweden, he'd be "the" replacement for older guys. I think people forget that Franziska is already a top player. He won Germany the game in 2018 against Korea, winning against top Koreans.


ok, let's assume Germany have good junior players, but if they don't have potential to be new Boll or Dima, Germany table tennis will drop to Sweden or France current level, or worse. That's not what people expect from Germany because they are the top of Europe for a good while now. I expect them to match Japan and Korea. Japan, Korea and even Taiwan are producing many young talents and at this rate it'd be hard for Germany to match them just 5 years from now. It's like Sweden decline after Waldner's generation. 

A new Boll or Dima might come along every 10 years. If they had a potential new Boll or Dima every year they would be competing with China not Japan or Korea.


I never said "every year". Boll is 38, Dima is 30, if Germany have a new top player in the making, he must be somewhere between 16-22, and who's that?

"We have Boll and Ovtcharov on the team for the time being, so we are still a strong team in Europe and in the world, but beyond them, the German team actually has a generation gap."
-> this is from Rosskopf himself. Even he admitted the generation gap. I'm pretty sure he know Germany table tennis better than you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/22/2019 at 7:15am
Originally posted by FruitLoop FruitLoop wrote:

He's also runner up in last Euros... he'd be the Swedish number 2 not far behind the number 1 right now!

Germany also had the finalist in the last European u 21 championship. They have plenty of young players but no new Bolls. Same thing with France. They have many many more potential young players than Sweden do I have no idea what gave anyone the opposite impression. Take Truls out and who? He is a possibly generational European talent, already Swedish national champion. We will see.
Kallberg is only 21.  I know his improvement has stalled but if he continues to get away with that serve, don't sleep on him. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tt Gold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/22/2019 at 8:02am
Originally posted by balldance balldance wrote:

Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

it's hard to compare Germany to something like Sweden or Japan. Of course they can replace old players with new ones. But the level of the old players is not as high as the one of Boll or Dima. Franziska and Duda are good players. They just seem worse because they need to replace top world class players. If Franziska was from Sweden, he'd be "the" replacement for older guys. I think people forget that Franziska is already a top player. He won Germany the game in 2018 against Korea, winning against top Koreans.


ok, let's assume Germany have good junior players, but if they don't have potential to be new Boll or Dima, Germany table tennis will drop to Sweden or France current level, or worse. That's not what people expect from Germany because they are the top of Europe for a good while now. I expect them to match Japan and Korea. Japan, Korea and even Taiwan are producing many young talents and at this rate it'd be hard for Germany to match them just 5 years from now. It's like Sweden decline after Waldner's generation. 
There's not much that can be done about it. The reason of this development is the education system. Compare Germany's education system to the ones of China or Taiwan. They can go into table tennis full time, while Germans are kind of forced into a non table tennis path.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FruitLoop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/22/2019 at 6:53pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by FruitLoop FruitLoop wrote:

He's also runner up in last Euros... he'd be the Swedish number 2 not far behind the number 1 right now!

Germany also had the finalist in the last European u 21 championship. They have plenty of young players but no new Bolls. Same thing with France. They have many many more potential young players than Sweden do I have no idea what gave anyone the opposite impression. Take Truls out and who? He is a possibly generational European talent, already Swedish national champion. We will see.
Kallberg is only 21.  I know his improvement has stalled but if he continues to get away with that serve, don't sleep on him. 

 
True but I think Franziska is his equal potential wise , being the slightly better player but slightly older imo.
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