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Is my elbow too high?

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hunkeelin View Drop Down
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    Posted: 06/02/2019 at 2:57am
For this video I have my elbow a little higher: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7qRj8pvH6k&feature=youtu.be

Is my elbow too high? does it feel unnatural? I could do a similar backhand with my elbow a little lower, it's faster but it's harder to lift the ball up. 


I prefer someone with at least holding an official usatt 1900+ within the last year commenting on this post. (Post your rating in the reply will greatly be appreciated.)



Edited by hunkeelin - 06/02/2019 at 3:01am
USATT: 2047 as of 2019
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Baal View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/02/2019 at 7:50am
I think it looks ok. Is this something new for you?  How does it feel? There have been some pro players who hit it like that.  In general you see a lot more stroke variability on the backhand side comparing different good players..  Also, if this is something you are experimenting with and you start to get pain in wrist or elbow, stop. 

One last suggestion: when drilling like that don't try to hit quite so hard all the time.  You are spraying the ball all over the place and that reinforces some bad game habits.  
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NextLevel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/02/2019 at 8:18am
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

I think it looks ok. Is this something new for you?  How does it feel? There have been some pro players who hit it like that.  In general you see a lot more stroke variability on the backhand side comparing different good players..  Also, if this is something you are experimenting with and you start to get pain in wrist or elbow, stop. 

One last suggestion: when drilling like that don't try to hit quite so hard all the time.  You are spraying the ball all over the place and that reinforces some bad game habits.  

The principle of hitting only as hard as you can control and as hard as your opponent can block is lost on many people.

That said, I find that for players who compete (as opposed to coaching), it can be sometimes better to have a stroke they can't truly control because it makes it harder for the opponent to read in a match.  Drilled strokes can sometimes become too predictable.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ericd937 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/02/2019 at 12:22pm
"One last suggestion: when drilling like that don't try to hit quite so hard all the time.  You are spraying the ball all over the place and that reinforces some bad game habits."

I was thinking the same thing while watching the video. It didn't look like he was getting that much effective practice in, but I could also agree with what NextLevel was saying about those unpredictable balls being more difficult during match play. I honestly just don't it fun when we hit only two or three balls and then have to go chase the balls down. Hitting hard like that is better when you are doing straight multiball and just going through the bucket of balls in my opinion.
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hunkeelin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hunkeelin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/02/2019 at 1:57pm
It wasn't me that's missing but my training partner if you watch closely. 


USATT: 2047 as of 2019
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mjamja View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mjamja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/02/2019 at 2:06pm
There are several different ways to look at that question.

1. Elbow - Hand  relationship:   Change is made by having a different forearm/upper arm angle at elbow. More angle means elbow is higher in relation to hand.  There is both a relation at end of backswing and one at ball contact.

2. Elbow -  Shoulder relationship:  More forward the elbow and more forward waist bend the higher the elbow in relation to the shoulder.  Mostly the same for end of backswing and ball contact, but different at end of follow through

3. Elbow -  Ball Contact Point:  Less knee bend and less forward lean the higher the elbow relative to ball contact.  This is dynamic since every ball bounce can have a different height.  A more static relationship is Elbow-table in the ready position.  Getting it right in ready position means less change needed to get correct elbow-ball relationship for the median ball.

Related but not just an elbow issue is the hand-ball contact relation at end of backswing.  This determines the swing path going forward and is critical to the path of the ball leaving the racket.

Since I am less than 1900 (1835) rating I will not comment on whether you are correct in any of these relationships.  If you are interested I can give you my thoughts on the effects of changes in each of these relationships.  

Edit:  Should not have made the above rating comment.  I really do not feel qualified to make a statement about what is correct.  I do feel qualified to make some suggestions for you to try and see if that makes real improvement if you want them.

Mark


Edited by mjamja - 06/02/2019 at 2:57pm
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stiltt View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/02/2019 at 2:52pm
I do not fit the rating requirements but I want to help. Can I bring some coffee maybe? anybody want a foot massage?

If my rating is not above the requirement but the perception I have of my own level is much higher than that, does it count? can I get a pass that way? oooh come ooooon...Big smile

May I point at ttgold's backhand? it seems you are trying to achieve the same early bh contact with [more wood / less sponge] and less spin so you flatter stroke gives a ball that arches less and is more difficult to control. Involving more sponge might help you. 

What l like in that bh is the commitment and self confidence in the early contact. It seems that you are decided to build just that and that you are ready to go through frustration to reach our goal, that's the right attitude given your personality and fast "getting-it-done" mindset (thinking of how little time it took you to break 2k).

I hope this helps:

ttgold commented there about that bh and just like you now, he was developing it at the time so I thought you would find his insight useful.




Edited by stiltt - 06/02/2019 at 2:53pm
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Lula View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lula Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/03/2019 at 2:53am
Do not know What rating have anything to Do with anything. I only train so i basically Do not have a rating But still feel that i can answer. You Will loose many advice by writing a rating. Alot of good coaches that can not play well or Do not have a raring. 

I think the stroke looks okay. But i think you drop down the racket to much and go to much upward. You Will not have the time to drop down the racket when you Will play better faster players in the future. When you drop the racket down you also need to hit upwards to be able to hit the ball. You want speed and power against topspin, a big arc is not needed. Now you get the arc But not so But can get more power if you hit more forward. 

It is also important to Do the same stroke all the time if you want ro be safe. Now it seems like you Do not Do that. One of the reason is because of that the tempo is to high. To difficult to learn a new stroke and to be good at any stroke if the tempo is to high. That the tempo is to high you notice because the balls are very short. You Will not become better training like this because you Do not get to practice the strokes enough. Lower the tempo alot and you Will become much better sooner. It really Do not matter if it is you or your opponent that misses. IG you miss as much as you guys Do in the video both of hou have to lower the tempo. If i play guys that are not at my level i lower my tempo so We both get training otherwise it is waste of our time. Your training is almost that. You guys Will become much better by playing slower. 

I also notice that you sometimes stop to late in your forehand loop. Stop by the nose and so not go further. You stop very good with your backhand. I also think Maybe you can have a lower gravity playing forehand so you get more power from the ground ans body. Looks a little like you loose your feet. 

Good luck. Looking forward to another video. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ghostzen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/03/2019 at 6:17am

As with a lot of the other guys comments and I don't mean any disrespect by this.. But you need to slow down a fair bit drilling if you can to groove the correct shot and also make it so people watching the video can see a regular standard stroke. Especially if the guy who is your  training partner is not as good as you and struggles to make the ball back when a little power is added. Also so you can really get the shot the same all the time and get a good feel which is a good stroke and also when you come across the ball slightly or make a poor contact and why.

I’d try for 10 on the table at a slower pace the same then go a little harder with the next 10 and video the differences and where things go a bit awry. Ideally work with your partner to get those 10 down and dusted.

There are loads of video training techniques that players use to improve but taking your foot off the power pedal a bit to start will give you loads of benefit later on.

Ratings are cool and everything but making 2000 is just the start really with a fair bit of work and the sky’s the limit. Looking forward to seeing another video. Cheers.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote heavyspin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/05/2019 at 9:13pm
I (USATT >1900) wouldn't call your elbow too high. I think it's out a little too far to the side of your body. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/05/2019 at 9:50pm
Originally posted by heavyspin heavyspin wrote:

I (USATT >1900) wouldn't call your elbow too high. I think it's out a little too far to the side of your body. 
"> 1900" That's what I call major humility.  If your rating isn't what it was 20 years ago, that's due to weight; I'm quite sure your knowledge of technique is as good as it ever was.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smackman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/05/2019 at 11:26pm
If I was standing there as a coach, I would suggest you spin and he blocks or he spins and you block
there was hardly any decent rallies, you are trying to counter his backhand (slightly sidespin shot) so you are seldom getting the chance of dropping the bat down and bouncing forward and up

 or he hits two places so you can plan the sidestep and then he has a turn at moving
if two are attacking and countering fast, then that is ok, if that is the objective, but that makes viewing and comments on what they see
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stancuzi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/08/2019 at 1:24am
Hi, what I see in your video is that  your stroke uses too much wrist and not enough forearm motion. To me your elbow is a bit too low. Also it seems to me rather inconsistent as placement most of the time. That's where your partner starts "missing"...:-)
What I normally do is starting slow counter hits, then increase speed and spin adding more wrist so your partner can adjust his strokes with you smoothly. My 2 cents.
Cheers, Stan


Edited by stancuzi - 06/08/2019 at 1:28am
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