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Big Dipper v Hybrid K1 v Nittaku H3 Turbo Orange

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    Posted: 06/09/2019 at 12:17am
I am giving up on my  Tenergy 25 experiment after ripping a 2 month old sheet on the table edge.  It was faster and had more spin than the Big Dipper and did flat hit better.  But I just can not justify the price especially considering how often I do tear rubbers.  Big Dipper is fine, but there are consistency issues sheet to sheet so I thought I might consider other hybrid rubbers.  So how does Big Dipper (38 degree) compare to Tibhar Hybrid K1 (Europe) and Nittaku H3 turbo orange?  Feel free to compare any other hybrid rubber I should consider.  This is for use on my Fh only.

Mark
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Egghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/09/2019 at 12:39am
wow, I thought big dipper was a grippy rubber. Did you try yinhe jupiter 2 already?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mjamja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/09/2019 at 1:03am
Originally posted by Egghead Egghead wrote:

wow, I thought big dipper was a grippy rubber. Did you try yinhe jupiter 2 already?

My Big Dipper will pick up a ball and hold it a couple of seconds when it is clean.

I have not even heard of Jupiter 2.  I will look into it.

Mark
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/09/2019 at 1:47am
Originally posted by mjamja mjamja wrote:

I am giving up on my  Tenergy 25 experiment after ripping a 2 month old sheet on the table edge.  It was faster and had more spin than the Big Dipper and did flat hit better.  But I just can not justify the price especially considering how often I do tear rubbers.  Big Dipper is fine, but there are consistency issues sheet to sheet so I thought I might consider other hybrid rubbers.  So how does Big Dipper (38 degree) compare to Tibhar Hybrid K1 (Europe) and Nittaku H3 turbo orange?  Feel free to compare any other hybrid rubber I should consider.  This is for use on my Fh only.

Mark
Well, you did hit with my Turbo Orange today, so that should give you some direct experience.  And at my last tournament, a 2200+ I played was using Donic BlueGrip on the FH, which is a new rubber.  I wonder if anyone has tried that.

I'd also mention Bty SpinArt, but that's just as expensive as the T25 you gave up on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Egghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/09/2019 at 8:22pm
Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

Well, you did hit with my Turbo Orange today, so that should give you some direct experience.  And at my last tournament, a 2200+ I played was using Donic BlueGrip on the FH, which is a new rubber.  I wonder if anyone has tried that.

I'd also mention Bty SpinArt, but that's just as expensive as the T25 you gave up on.
If you have $, you must try the Bty SpinArt. When it is new (<4 month), the spin of your loop is so unbelievable high that the path of the ball is stable and it has an obtuse angle bounce.


Edited by Egghead - 06/09/2019 at 10:14pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mjamja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/09/2019 at 10:09pm
Why don't we hear more about Spin Art and players who use it?  Anyone know of any higher level players (not necessarily pros) using it?

Mark
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Egghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/09/2019 at 10:14pm
.

Edited by Egghead - 06/09/2019 at 10:14pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ericd937 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/09/2019 at 10:18pm
Originally posted by mjamja mjamja wrote:

Why don't we hear more about Spin Art and players who use it?  Anyone know of any higher level players (not necessarily pros) using it?

Mark

Wondering the same thing as well. I've never even seen a sheet of SpinArt outside of a table tennis shop. I'm always looking at peoples bats and try to get get a quick hit with equipment I've never tried before. Of course, I always offer to let people try my equipment as well. 


Edited by ericd937 - 06/09/2019 at 10:18pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Egghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/10/2019 at 12:49am
Originally posted by ericd937 ericd937 wrote:

Originally posted by mjamja mjamja wrote:

Why don't we hear more about Spin Art and players who use it?  Anyone know of any higher level players (not necessarily pros) using it?

Mark

Wondering the same thing as well. I've never even seen a sheet of SpinArt outside of a table tennis shop. I'm always looking at peoples bats and try to get get a quick hit with equipment I've never tried before. Of course, I always offer to let people try my equipment as well. 
me too. The rubber's spin is at least two folds of T05's spin. It is a beast if player has sound technique . I understand that the rubber is only good for few months, but it shall not bother the pro Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/10/2019 at 1:05am
I actually have a used sheet of SpinArt in storage at home.  I put it on my TB ALC several years ago, tried it for a week or so, and then took it off.  That was before my current transition to Turbo Orange on the FH. I imagine I would feel more comfortable with it now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/10/2019 at 8:55am
Originally posted by ericd937 ericd937 wrote:

Originally posted by mjamja mjamja wrote:

Why don't we hear more about Spin Art and players who use it?  Anyone know of any higher level players (not necessarily pros) using it?

Mark

Wondering the same thing as well. I've never even seen a sheet of SpinArt outside of a table tennis shop. I'm always looking at peoples bats and try to get get a quick hit with equipment I've never tried before. Of course, I always offer to let people try my equipment as well. 
t

Matsumoto from brazil plays with spinart
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ericd937 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/10/2019 at 8:55am
I live in Vietnam. I don't often get to Brazil. lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liXiao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/10/2019 at 5:29pm
Originally posted by mjamja mjamja wrote:

Why don't we hear more about Spin Art and players who use it?  Anyone know of any higher level players (not necessarily pros) using it?

Mark

Cheng I-Ching and Sora Matsushima are two names that come to mind. Sayaka Hirano used it for a brief time when it first came out back in 2010, and Liu Shiwen used it on her backhand recently, though eventually stopping.

But it's a very niche rubber, and an expensive one at that. Plus with Tenergy 05 Hard and Dignics now I'm not sure what advantages it has. If I could test it without having to buy it I'd really like to, but that's clearly not happening.

On another note, ProTT just received Jupiter Pro III Blue Sponge, which I'm also very interested in. Hurricane 3 is great, especially on the Viscaria, but sometimes it just takes a big too much effort to get the best from it, so I'd like something that has similar characteristics but extra power behind it.
Butterfly Viscaria
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Egghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/10/2019 at 10:35pm
Originally posted by liXiao liXiao wrote:


Cheng I-Ching and Sora Matsushima are two names that come to mind. Sayaka Hirano used it for a brief time when it first came out back in 2010, and Liu Shiwen used it on her backhand recently, though eventually stopping.

But it's a very niche rubber, and an expensive one at that. Plus with Tenergy 05 Hard and Dignics now I'm not sure what advantages it has. If I could test it without having to buy it I'd really like to, but that's clearly not happening.

On another note, ProTT just received Jupiter Pro III Blue Sponge, which I'm also very interested in. Hurricane 3 is great, especially on the Viscaria, but sometimes it just takes a big too much effort to get the best from it, so I'd like something that has similar characteristics but extra power behind it.
I believe the Jupiter Pro III Blue Sponge is the Jupiter 2's gold package national blue sponge verion  



Edited by Egghead - 06/11/2019 at 10:59am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/11/2019 at 1:44am
Yinhe Jupiter 3 Tour Blue Sponge:


Life is too short for defensive play.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liXiao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/11/2019 at 8:44am
Just bought a sheet last night from ProTT. Super excited to see how it plays. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/11/2019 at 12:22pm
Originally posted by liXiao liXiao wrote:

Just bought a sheet last night from ProTT. Super excited to see how it plays. 
I am looking for some modern Chinese rubbers for a friend. Palio HK 1997 Gold (according to the TTDD.de: "Version of Palio Thor's produced in China"), AK47 and Yinhe Jupiter II are among the short listed.

Life is too short for defensive play.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kunglao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/11/2019 at 12:58pm
I’m around 2150-2250, and recently made spinart a permanent rubber on one side of my blade. It’s very spinny, a bit slow out the package but with 1-2 layers of falco becomes very dynamic rubber!   The spin on short game and loops is better than any rubber I’ve tried ( t05, bluefire or   mxs). It blocks reasonably well too because the incoming ball doesn’t catapult off the rubber as much as traditional rubbers. Overall a very special rubber from butterfly that is overlooked imho. Negative with it is the hardness, and it’s not a feeling oriented rubber but it definitely produces very effective shots.   Recommend for someone with good technique but even without technique it can be used successfully but u have to learn the rubber a bit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mjamja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/11/2019 at 3:31pm
Found a sealed package of Yinhe Apollo that has been sitting around for a couple of years.  Last 1yr it has been in plastic box in back of truck so not sure if it is anywhere close to original.

When first hitting with it the rubber seemed quite dead.  And it was just barely tacky.  After about 5 hrs of hitting on robot and giving lessons it seemed more lively and tacky (would lift ball off table and hold for 1 sec.).  Tonight is a playing night (no coaching) so I will report back tomorrow on how it seems in real play.

Mark
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hozuki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/11/2019 at 3:53pm
Originally posted by Ray Ray wrote:

Originally posted by liXiao liXiao wrote:

Just bought a sheet last night from ProTT. Super excited to see how it plays. 
I am looking for some modern Chinese rubbers for a friend. Palio HK 1997 Gold (according to the TTDD.de: "Version of Palio Thor's produced in China"), AK47 and Yinhe Jupiter II are among the short listed.



Palio HK 1997 Gold is pretty good. even without booster, elasticity is sufficient. It's also much faster than traditional chinese rubbers. counter loop is nice and easy. Only serve and short game are not so good.
IMO better than the ESN hybrids like golden tango or rising dragon.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fmarek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/15/2019 at 8:48am
Originally posted by mjamja mjamja wrote:

Found a sealed package of Yinhe Apollo that has been sitting around for a couple of years.  Last 1yr it has been in plastic box in back of truck so not sure if it is anywhere close to original.

When first hitting with it the rubber seemed quite dead.  And it was just barely tacky.  After about 5 hrs of hitting on robot and giving lessons it seemed more lively and tacky (would lift ball off table and hold for 1 sec.).  Tonight is a playing night (no coaching) so I will report back tomorrow on how it seems in real play.

Mark

Apparently he did not survive the night :)
Yinhe Kiso-Hinoki V 5ply, FH: Hurricane 3, H39, BH: Sanwei Target National
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote mjamja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/15/2019 at 2:38pm
Sorry for delay.  I obviously have no touch or feel.  I hardly notice any difference between the Tenergy 25, the Big Dipper, and the Apollo when playing.  I am not aware of adjusting my strokes for the different rubbers.  T25 does seem to hit shots past opponents more than the others so it must be faster.  But I did not adjust how I played with it compared to the other two.  Bouncing the ball on the racket there is a definite difference with the Apollo seeming very dead compared to the T25 and Big Dipper.  One player who it had try the Apollo said it was really dead, but another player said it was normal but not as fast as his setup probably because of the blade difference.  

My serve return short game is just as bad with any of the three rubbers.

Guess I can save a lot of money and just buy whatever is cheapest.  Sorry that I can not give a real comparative review.  Hitting with the different rubbers is just like hitting with different players.  I must be making some changes to account for different speed and spin but I just can not feel what the differences are.

Mark 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vanjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/16/2019 at 6:56am
Your FH was a LOT better w T25. I think your game us better with it. I suspect it would also be better with an ESN product that is about half the price of tenergy. The GOOD thing is that you have no perception of rubber feel. I would say pick the latest generation of xiom omega asian or my new favorite andro rasanter R47 and play with it. You can get one of the buy 3 get 4 sheets deals to get it at 40 dollars a sheet price and you are set for 2 rackets for a year. I have "tried" to tear my rasanter a few times and so far it has been fine.

Patrick at one time had spinart. If course he had a sheet of almost everything.
Gambler Hinoki Vector blade; Double inverted. Or some LPs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GabrielTopspin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/16/2019 at 12:36pm
how does the jupiter 3 blue sponge play, i ordered this rubber too (39 hardness and will boost it with two layers, i hope it will not be too fast :O), i have now a normal jupiter in 38 degree hardness and will boost it with two layers haifu seamoon--- hope it will not be too soft, and i will try it on the backhand too
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liXiao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/16/2019 at 3:47pm
Originally posted by GabrielTopspin GabrielTopspin wrote:

how does the jupiter 3 blue sponge play, i ordered this rubber too (39 hardness and will boost it with two layers, i hope it will not be too fast :O), i have now a normal jupiter in 38 degree hardness and will boost it with two layers haifu seamoon--- hope it will not be too soft, and i will try it on the backhand too

I'll receive the rubber Tuesday and play on Thursday. For right now I'll see how it plays without booster,
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