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Alternative way to loop underspin

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ghostzen View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ghostzen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/11/2019 at 7:13am
looks like it. Need to see a bit of video I would guess to see 100%.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/11/2019 at 7:44am
Originally posted by ghostzen ghostzen wrote:

looks like it. Need to see a bit of video I would guess to see 100%.

Ok it's probably a trap but I'll bite regardless for the sake of discussion. Just try to be intellectually honest. Even in this thread I already see the ever changing goalposts which I won't call out. Watch carefully the lumbar, shoulders, feet. Of course I can't help if some people already closed their mind and are unable to accept new ideas. 




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/12/2019 at 12:32am
Okay, none of this is video of the original shot.  So we are moving the goalposts here.  Harimoto does not look like the original photo on many of the shots here.

If the argument is that Harimoto's forehand is different from Ma Long's or Timo Boll's, nothing to argue with though in terms of standard body usage, I would argue it is a matter of degree and that they are all textbook forehands.  Whether Harimoto should or will continue to loop like this as he gets older will be interesting.

If the idea is that Harimoto loops underspin differently, without getting into it, I would like to introduce one more player to show what your loop looks like when you are low to the table without squatting to get some perspective since all the comparables are going to be much older, taller and physically stronger than Harimoto at 14.  Then you can decide whether the technique is new or related to specific things about Harimoto's forehand.  As LGL said, he has the forehand of a boy at his age. 

Since the T2 videos are the most comparable.i may look for Boll vs Joo there as well (no point comparing old balls to newer ones).



Edited by NextLevel - 07/12/2019 at 12:44am
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/12/2019 at 1:15am
Obviously NextLevel loves this thread secretly given how much he posted.  LOL I'm seriously confused by his position. He claims that this is a standard stroke but earlier also said maybe this alternative should be more widely taught. He also can't make up his mind whether or not dropping the shoulder to get low to loop underspin is acceptable or not (earlier on he wanted to say that lower back usage is perfectly fine, but later on he said it is not). He also admitted to having lower back soreness when getting low to loop in  earlier threads but is now denying it because it no longer suits his position. Lol! He will probably delete his own video next....

If you can't see the differences between the 3 players in terms of the use of the lumbar, seriously try it yourself. Tip: In terms of the degree of lumbar flexion the list goes this way with Timo having the most extreme position, Ma Long uses it but to a lesser degree, and Harimoto just doesn't use it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/12/2019 at 3:12am
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Obviously NextLevel loves this thread secretly given how much he posted.  LOL I'm seriously confused by his position. He claims that this is a standard stroke but earlier also said maybe this alternative should be more widely taught. He also can't make up his mind whether or not dropping the shoulder to get low to loop underspin is acceptable or not (earlier on he wanted to say that lower back usage is perfectly fine, but later on he said it is not). He also admitted to having lower back soreness when getting low to loop in  earlier threads but is now denying it because it no longer suits his position. Lol! He will probably delete his own video next....

If you can't see the differences between the 3 players in terms of the use of the lumbar, seriously try it yourself. Tip: In terms of the degree of lumbar flexion the list goes this way with Timo having the most extreme position, Ma Long uses it but to a lesser degree, and Harimoto just doesn't use it. 

I can see the differences and to make it crystal clear:

1.  These differences are built into how they loop any ball, including their basic loop vs block.
2. Their modifications for underspin are similar when their basic loop is understood.

If you look at Harimoto, Boll or Ma, all these things you are pointing out are in their basic loops.

I will leave the issues with your inability to understand my sarcasm and issues with arthritis for another time.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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BH: Fastarc C-1 2.0 R
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/12/2019 at 3:25am
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Obviously NextLevel loves this thread secretly given how much he posted.  LOL I'm seriously confused by his position. He claims that this is a standard stroke but earlier also said maybe this alternative should be more widely taught. He also can't make up his mind whether or not dropping the shoulder to get low to loop underspin is acceptable or not (earlier on he wanted to say that lower back usage is perfectly fine, but later on he said it is not). He also admitted to having lower back soreness when getting low to loop in  earlier threads but is now denying it because it no longer suits his position. Lol! He will probably delete his own video next....

If you can't see the differences between the 3 players in terms of the use of the lumbar, seriously try it yourself. Tip: In terms of the degree of lumbar flexion the list goes this way with Timo having the most extreme position, Ma Long uses it but to a lesser degree, and Harimoto just doesn't use it. 

I can see the differences and to make it crystal clear:

1.  These differences are built into how they loop any ball, including their basic loop vs block.
2. Their modifications for underspin are similar when their basic loop is understood.

If you look at Harimoto, Boll or Ma, all these things you are pointing out are in their basic loops.

I will leave the issues with your inability to understand my sarcasm and issues with arthritis for another time.

Of course these features are all in their basic loops! You definitely can't have completely different stroke structures to loop different balls. The point of this thread was to point out an alternative way of getting low  to loop underspin, but you have to get low for many other types of balls too and of course you would be using similar technique for those.

So you agree with me that it is an alternative way of approaching the problem of looping underspin without using potentially injurious lumbar flexion and knee shear. Great! Case closed.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/12/2019 at 8:45am
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Obviously NextLevel loves this thread secretly given how much he posted.  LOL I'm seriously confused by his position. He claims that this is a standard stroke but earlier also said maybe this alternative should be more widely taught. He also can't make up his mind whether or not dropping the shoulder to get low to loop underspin is acceptable or not (earlier on he wanted to say that lower back usage is perfectly fine, but later on he said it is not). He also admitted to having lower back soreness when getting low to loop in  earlier threads but is now denying it because it no longer suits his position. Lol! He will probably delete his own video next....

If you can't see the differences between the 3 players in terms of the use of the lumbar, seriously try it yourself. Tip: In terms of the degree of lumbar flexion the list goes this way with Timo having the most extreme position, Ma Long uses it but to a lesser degree, and Harimoto just doesn't use it. 

I can see the differences and to make it crystal clear:

1.  These differences are built into how they loop any ball, including their basic loop vs block.
2. Their modifications for underspin are similar when their basic loop is understood.

If you look at Harimoto, Boll or Ma, all these things you are pointing out are in their basic loops.

I will leave the issues with your inability to understand my sarcasm and issues with arthritis for another time.

Of course these features are all in their basic loops! You definitely can't have completely different stroke structures to loop different balls. The point of this thread was to point out an alternative way of getting low  to loop underspin, but you have to get low for many other types of balls too and of course you would be using similar technique for those.

So you agree with me that it is an alternative way of approaching the problem of looping underspin without using potentially injurious lumbar flexion and knee shear. Great! Case closed.....

Sure. You can loop in many ways, and like I said, making it just about underspin is the issue. 
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Korbel ST
FH: Fastarc C-1 2.0 B
BH: Fastarc C-1 2.0 R
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote racquetsforsale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/15/2019 at 3:42pm
Some see a big difference while others see only nuances.
That's been the argument.
It's a "safer" or at least an "alternative" way to get low to the ball, that's it. No more. No less.
Agreed?
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