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Kato Miyu strawberry

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    Posted: 07/28/2019 at 6:23am
Interesting stroke... see this!



I'm starting to use a variation as part of a combo. So the idea is to serve really heavy underspin to the BH short to invite the short push, then use the strawberry flip to the deep FH....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnnyChop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/28/2019 at 9:04am
why is it called the 🍓 flip? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfolsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/28/2019 at 9:36am
You can blame Stefan Feth. The other flip is called chiquita or banana.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vik2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/28/2019 at 10:55am
Saw CM struggling to return her strawberry shots at T2. It's always nice to have a variety of shots to throw off the opponent's rhythm. Unlikely to win against the CNT if you are a zealous looping machine because it is more likely that they are too and will overpower you. 

Strawberry sounds really stupid though. At least the video uses the term "reverse Chiquita". 


Edited by vik2000 - 07/28/2019 at 10:56am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acpoulos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/28/2019 at 12:39pm
This shot will become less effective over time as players see it more and more. (Just as players are now teeing off on those chiquita banana slow openers). Familiarity breeds contempt as the saying goes. But there is no getting used to fast, strong opening shots as we are seeing from that young Taiwan star and some China players.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tinykin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/28/2019 at 2:09pm
Originally posted by acpoulos acpoulos wrote:

This shot will become less effective over time as players see it more and more. (Just as players are now teeing off on those chiquita banana slow openers). Familiarity breeds contempt as the saying goes. But there is no getting used to fast, strong opening shots as we are seeing from that young Taiwan star and some China players.


You make a good point. This shot has been around since table tennis began. Even I used to use it now and then back in the 60's. It was mostly used by backhand oriented players. It has come and gone over time mostly because most modern coaches train their players to use the FH flick instead.
However, every little advantage is worth something, and a well placed (and practised) surprise shot is good for any player's arsenal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/28/2019 at 2:34pm
I never liked that shot, it has the "trick" label written all over it. The window of opportunity is rather small for a lethal shot (if well executed); outside that window, the shot is still possible but produces a ball that arches up more and becomes attackable candy for the opponent.
That strawberry makes sense on balls that comes to a player's short fh to hit diagonally: overall, the time to develop the shot will be invested more efficiently in a chiquita that can also aim at the same corner, in the same diagonal, from the same ball.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote purpletiesto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/28/2019 at 3:47pm
Originally posted by stiltt stiltt wrote:

I never liked that shot, it has the "trick" label written all over it. The window of opportunity is rather small for a lethal shot (if well executed); outside that window, the shot is still possible but produces a ball that arches up more and becomes attackable candy for the opponent.
That strawberry makes sense on balls that comes to a player's short fh to hit diagonally: overall, the time to develop the shot will be invested more efficiently in a chiquita that can also aim at the same corner, in the same diagonal, from the same ball.

I'm sure you'd beat Kato Miyu's trickery lame game.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote alexuganski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/28/2019 at 5:08pm
It's an interesting shot, but it's not for me. I play SP FH, so that exact ball is a bread-and-butter opening drive with my SP. I do employ the regular banana flick when needed though.

Not sure why, but her strokes makes me think it'd be an effective shot with LP. It might be effective for someone with a weak forehand flick.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/28/2019 at 6:09pm
Originally posted by stiltt stiltt wrote:

I never liked that shot, it has the "trick" label written all over it. The window of opportunity is rather small for a lethal shot (if well executed); outside that window, the shot is still possible but produces a ball that arches up more and becomes attackable candy for the opponent.
That strawberry makes sense on balls that comes to a player's short fh to hit diagonally: overall, the time to develop the shot will be invested more efficiently in a chiquita that can also aim at the same corner, in the same diagonal, from the same ball.



There's advantages to the strawberry or reverse chiquita, you can do it against heavy underspin easily which is not something you can say with chiquita. Useful to avoid getting stuck in a nasty underspin pushing game. For all other balls the chiquita is simply superior as what you said.

It can also have the same preparation movement as a push, which makes it a lot more sudden and effective than the chiquita against certain balls as the chiquita is always very well telegraphed ie your opponent knows that it's coming. 


Edited by blahness - 07/28/2019 at 6:11pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/28/2019 at 6:13pm
Originally posted by purpletiesto purpletiesto wrote:

Originally posted by stiltt stiltt wrote:

I never liked that shot, it has the "trick" label written all over it. The window of opportunity is rather small for a lethal shot (if well executed); outside that window, the shot is still possible but produces a ball that arches up more and becomes attackable candy for the opponent.
That strawberry makes sense on balls that comes to a player's short fh to hit diagonally: overall, the time to develop the shot will be invested more efficiently in a chiquita that can also aim at the same corner, in the same diagonal, from the same ball.

I'm sure you'd beat Kato Miyu's trickery lame game.
I did not mean disrespect for the great Kato, I am sorry if I reached that way.

The strawberry might be useless complexity, that a good chiquita may encompass all of what the strawberry can bring to a game so the time spent learning the strawberry might  not be used the wisest way. 

This is maybe better than the strawberry:

Ovtcharov's bh attack is lethal and in fact, zjk's return could have been killed to his wide bh, Dima needed one more shot but he was successful setting himself up for a winner 2 shots before.


Edited by stiltt - 07/28/2019 at 6:24pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/28/2019 at 6:22pm
What will I choose:

this?


---

That was a good candidate for a earlier strawberry wasn't it?
Wait for the slomo at 2m29s, watching that at 0.25 speed shows the label on the ball really well.



Edited by stiltt - 07/28/2019 at 6:55pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pingpungpeng Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/28/2019 at 6:36pm
strawberry upsets timing.

people think you are getting ready to throw them a banana, but you hit the ball earlier and throw them a strawberry.


Edited by pingpungpeng - 07/28/2019 at 6:44pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/28/2019 at 7:51pm
I think theoretically you could also do it using the FH.... 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/28/2019 at 11:46pm
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

I think theoretically you could also do it using the FH.... 
XX does that all the time with his FH
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/29/2019 at 5:31am
Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

I think theoretically you could also do it using the FH.... 
XX does that all the time with his FH
I think for a shakehand version probably Waldner is the best proponent of this stroke....I personally love using it 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote purpletiesto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/29/2019 at 8:33am
Originally posted by stiltt stiltt wrote:

Originally posted by purpletiesto purpletiesto wrote:

Originally posted by stiltt stiltt wrote:

I never liked that shot, it has the "trick" label written all over it. The window of opportunity is rather small for a lethal shot (if well executed); outside that window, the shot is still possible but produces a ball that arches up more and becomes attackable candy for the opponent.
That strawberry makes sense on balls that comes to a player's short fh to hit diagonally: overall, the time to develop the shot will be invested more efficiently in a chiquita that can also aim at the same corner, in the same diagonal, from the same ball.

I'm sure you'd beat Kato Miyu's trickery lame game.
I did not mean disrespect for the great Kato, I am sorry if I reached that way.

The strawberry might be useless complexity, that a good chiquita may encompass all of what the strawberry can bring to a game so the time spent learning the strawberry might  not be used the wisest way. 

This is maybe better than the strawberry:

Ovtcharov's bh attack is lethal and in fact, zjk's return could have been killed to his wide bh, Dima needed one more shot but he was successful setting himself up for a winner 2 shots before.

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One of the advantages of a strawberry is the surprise factor, sure. Maybe it is only 80% of the speed, spin off a banana, but when you don't expect it or have little experience facing it, perhaps this increases its value.

Especially good in the girl's game where they stand closer, bananas are slower and the surprise effect probably has more value than in men's game.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/29/2019 at 9:10am
it's a nice tool to have. Like any other tool you don't want to use it all the time. Simon Gauzy uses it effectively on the men's side.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pingpungpeng Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/29/2019 at 10:06am
Originally posted by pingpungpeng pingpungpeng wrote:

strawberry upsets timing.

people think you are getting ready to throw them a banana, but you hit the ball earlier and throw them a strawberry.

only disadvantage of strawberry is that most times it goes to the opponent's forehand.
so if you see a strawberry you kind of start getting ready in the fh side.

with the banana it's more difficult to tell which side it will go to.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote purpletiesto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/29/2019 at 10:45am
Originally posted by pingpungpeng pingpungpeng wrote:

Originally posted by pingpungpeng pingpungpeng wrote:

strawberry upsets timing.

people think you are getting ready to throw them a banana, but you hit the ball earlier and throw them a strawberry.

only disadvantage of strawberry is that most times it goes to the opponent's forehand.
so if you see a strawberry you kind of start getting ready in the fh side.

with the banana it's more difficult to tell which side it will go to.

isn't the whole idea that you don't see it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gnopgnipster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/29/2019 at 11:30am
It looks to me like the old Barna backhand except she uses inverted.

Edited by gnopgnipster - 07/29/2019 at 11:30am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnnyChop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/04/2019 at 6:41pm
Originally posted by jfolsen jfolsen wrote:

You can blame Stefan Feth. The other flip is called chiquita or banana.

I thot the banana flick is so called because of the trajectory of the ball is in the shape of a banana... While nothing in the 🍓 flick resembles a strawberry
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote avova Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/05/2019 at 8:07am
Originally posted by pingpungpeng pingpungpeng wrote:

only disadvantage of strawberry is that most times it goes to the opponent's forehand.

Not if you are left-handed ;)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote purpletiesto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/06/2019 at 3:48am
Originally posted by avova avova wrote:

Originally posted by pingpungpeng pingpungpeng wrote:

only disadvantage of strawberry is that most times it goes to the opponent's forehand.

Not if you are left-handed ;)

Most of the time you're playing against right handers, so most of the time it goes to the opponent's forehand.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote purpletiesto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/06/2019 at 3:49am
Originally posted by JohnnyChop JohnnyChop wrote:

Originally posted by jfolsen jfolsen wrote:

You can blame Stefan Feth. The other flip is called chiquita or banana.

I thot the banana flick is so called because of the trajectory of the ball is in the shape of a banana... While nothing in the 🍓 flick resembles a strawberry

I always thought because it had side spin it kind of curves outwards like the shape of a strawberry.
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