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Topic ClosedVasile Buzatu ~2300 pushblocker, frictionless lp

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/02/2019 at 3:10pm
Originally posted by bard romance bard romance wrote:

Originally posted by obesechopper obesechopper wrote:

Originally posted by bard romance bard romance wrote:

Why is it that every "push blocker" I see turns into an 1100 level player when they have to make a real shot such as a forehand smash? Do none of them even have any semblance of a traditional offensive game? I have literally seen basement players with better form on put away shots than some high level "push blockers". Given all the pop ups that they get, it would seem to make sense to have this shot in their arsenal.

It's almost like they are playing an entirely different game.

The answer is simple. They haven't needed to! If you can make it to 2000+ without forehand attacking... I think that says more about your opponents than the pushblockers!


Obviously. There are many different styles out there, and among none other can someone make it to a high level without being able to execute basic, fundamental table tennis shots except for the one that is so heavily predicated on equipment.


Give a 2000 shakehand attacker (hitter, looper, all around, whatever) a pips out paddle and maybe their level goes down to 1800. Make a 2000 shakehand all around player chop, maybe their level goes down to 17-1800. Give a 2000 modern chopper an inverted both sides offensive paddle and maybe their level goes to 1800.

Give a pushblocker anything besides that, and from what I see they become a 1000 level player.

I don't have an issue with people choosing to play this style, but let's stop acting like it isn't a huge gimmick that completely bypasses learning any fundamentals of how to play tt, which any other style of player would need to have. That is why players of this style are hard capped at 2300 level, unless they can actually win points through smashing or something offensive as well. You won't find one that ever goes higher because they completely rely on people to make mistakes and have no way of really earning their own points. That won't work against the vast majority of 2300+ players.

And what level does the average inverted user max out as? Lol... 

Talking about top end players doesnt mean much to any of us amateurs. And for amateurs, pips or junk rubber etc. Is as valid as any other with essentially zero ceiling based on who they play against
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/02/2019 at 3:49pm
Originally posted by bard romance bard romance wrote:


Give a 2000 shakehand attacker (hitter, looper, all around, whatever) a pips out paddle and maybe their level goes down to 1800. Make a 2000 shakehand all around player chop, maybe their level goes down to 17-1800. Give a 2000 modern chopper an inverted both sides offensive paddle and maybe their level goes to 1800.

I beg to differ on this.  I know 2000 players who chop occassionally for the fun of it.  Their level drops to 1300 or worse if they have to depend upon the chops. The only thing that saves them are higher quality serves.  Similarly, I've seen 1800 players pick up a hard bat and drop to 1400.

And none of your examples are really an apples-to-apples comparison.  Give a 2000 looper a pushblocker paddle (with slick LP) and they drop to 1500.

At the high levels (2300+), this breaks down because of the high level of understanding of how the mechanics of everything work, and because of generally increased athleticism and/or table "smarts."

Frankly, before I send too much time mocking the pushblocker style, I'd rather complain about the rise of "brainless" play (for loopers and hitters) since the switch from celluloid to plastic balls.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/02/2019 at 9:38pm
I don't know why you guys are even arguing. The point is that when you use a bizarre rubber like that, by virtue of using such a rubber you are automatically in an advantageous position in amateur levels. The reason is as simple as it gets. You play against players with inverted rubbers 95% of the time so more or less you are used to them, whereas players with inverted rubbers play with long pips only 5% of the time, so they simply aren't used to the odd spin you generate (whether intentionally or unintentionally) and the rhythm of the play. 

I will say that I have rarely come across an actual skilled LP player. Most use it because they are old or just less athletic in general. There are obviously exceptions and my coach is one of the very few skilled LP players in town with 3,000+ rating. I don't give a shit if you use LP or whatever the fking variant of it that are out there. But I can tell when playing against you whether you are skilled or just using it because you aren't physically capable of using inverted rubbers. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/02/2019 at 10:39pm
Originally posted by vik2000 vik2000 wrote:

I don't know why you guys are even arguing. The point is that when you use a bizarre rubber like that, by virtue of using such a rubber you are automatically in an advantageous position in amateur levels. The reason is as simple as it gets. You play against players with inverted rubbers 95% of the time so more or less you are used to them, whereas players with inverted rubbers play with long pips only 5% of the time, so they simply aren't used to the odd spin you generate (whether intentionally or unintentionally) and the rhythm of the play. 

I will say that I have rarely come across an actual skilled LP player. Most use it because they are old or just less athletic in general. There are obviously exceptions and my coach is one of the very few skilled LP players in town with 3,000+ rating. I don't give a shit if you use LP or whatever the fking variant of it that are out there. But I can tell when playing against you whether you are skilled or just using it because you aren't physically capable of using inverted rubbers. 

True. Just the same as people use inverted because their brains are incapable of using strategy, skill, or finesse and so they must attempt to power loop or smash everything in a Crog the Caveman style. Which, coincidentally, is the ideal opponent for a pushblocker LOL


Edited by obesechopper - 08/02/2019 at 11:26pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/02/2019 at 11:20pm
Watched op's 1st video and I know it's hard to tell what a push blocker rating should be so I'm wondering what makes him a 2300 level player? Did he play in USATT tournaments or is 2300+ just a wild guess?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/03/2019 at 3:21pm
Originally posted by obesechopper obesechopper wrote:

Originally posted by vik2000 vik2000 wrote:

I don't know why you guys are even arguing. The point is that when you use a bizarre rubber like that, by virtue of using such a rubber you are automatically in an advantageous position in amateur levels. The reason is as simple as it gets. You play against players with inverted rubbers 95% of the time so more or less you are used to them, whereas players with inverted rubbers play with long pips only 5% of the time, so they simply aren't used to the odd spin you generate (whether intentionally or unintentionally) and the rhythm of the play. 

I will say that I have rarely come across an actual skilled LP player. Most use it because they are old or just less athletic in general. There are obviously exceptions and my coach is one of the very few skilled LP players in town with 3,000+ rating. I don't give a shit if you use LP or whatever the fking variant of it that are out there. But I can tell when playing against you whether you are skilled or just using it because you aren't physically capable of using inverted rubbers. 

True. Just the same as people use inverted because their brains are incapable of using strategy, skill, or finesse and so they must attempt to power loop or smash everything in a Crog the Caveman style. Which, coincidentally, is the ideal opponent for a pushblocker LOL

No, I actually think your brain is incapable of understanding a simple logic. Most LP players don't have a fking strategy lol. It looks as if they have a strategy but they look confused as f**k when playing against players who have experience dealing with LP players. 

People don't use inverted because they aren't strategic. It simply requires much more effort and years of practice to be better at inverted. You actually need much higher level of skills to actually EXECUTE your strategy when playing inverted rubbers. I'm starting to think we are just getting a bunch of sensitive LP users defending their style of play as if they are the "smart" players. 

Btw, username checks out. "obesechopper" lol. 


Edited by vik2000 - 08/03/2019 at 3:23pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/03/2019 at 5:20pm
Originally posted by vik2000 vik2000 wrote:

Originally posted by obesechopper obesechopper wrote:

Originally posted by vik2000 vik2000 wrote:

I don't know why you guys are even arguing. The point is that when you use a bizarre rubber like that, by virtue of using such a rubber you are automatically in an advantageous position in amateur levels. The reason is as simple as it gets. You play against players with inverted rubbers 95% of the time so more or less you are used to them, whereas players with inverted rubbers play with long pips only 5% of the time, so they simply aren't used to the odd spin you generate (whether intentionally or unintentionally) and the rhythm of the play. 

I will say that I have rarely come across an actual skilled LP player. Most use it because they are old or just less athletic in general. There are obviously exceptions and my coach is one of the very few skilled LP players in town with 3,000+ rating. I don't give a shit if you use LP or whatever the fking variant of it that are out there. But I can tell when playing against you whether you are skilled or just using it because you aren't physically capable of using inverted rubbers. 

True. Just the same as people use inverted because their brains are incapable of using strategy, skill, or finesse and so they must attempt to power loop or smash everything in a Crog the Caveman style. Which, coincidentally, is the ideal opponent for a pushblocker LOL

No, I actually think your brain is incapable of understanding a simple logic. Most LP players don't have a fking strategy lol. It looks as if they have a strategy but they look confused as f**k when playing against players who have experience dealing with LP players. 

People don't use inverted because they aren't strategic. It simply requires much more effort and years of practice to be better at inverted. You actually need much higher level of skills to actually EXECUTE your strategy when playing inverted rubbers. I'm starting to think we are just getting a bunch of sensitive LP users defending their style of play as if they are the "smart" players. 

Btw, username checks out. "obesechopper" lol. 

So do you actually believe what you're saying, or do you just make these posts as a way of trolling this thread?  I'm not a pips player and I hope never to become one, and yet even I'm insulted by your remarks.

I was talking over the pushblocker style with another looper (2000 level) and he made the observation that long pips and smooth have different learning curves.  At the start (lower level), it's easier to find success with long pips than with smooth.  Beyond a certain point, it's harder to find success with the pips than smooth.  So being a pips player at 1300 or even 1500 might take less skill than a smooth player at that level.  However, once you get to 1900+, it takes a lot of work (just as much work or maybe more) to keep improving with pips versus smooth.  I can see my friend's point.  The 1900 local pushblocker that I know works very hard on his technique, including regular coaching (from a non-pips coach!) and drilling. 

And then there are your remarks about the popularity of long pips among older players.  It's almost as if you think they shouldn't even be allowed to play the sport.  Of course, when you're older you have physical limitations -- it will happen to you, too, eventually.  But because table tennis was always about skills and tactics, being physically limited doesn't mean you can't compete, it just means adjusting styles, such as playing with LP.

You seem to have a very narrow view of what constitutes "real" table tennis, and i'm very glad that the real world doesn't actually work like that. It would be a very boring sport, indeed.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/03/2019 at 6:46pm
Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

Originally posted by vik2000 vik2000 wrote:

Originally posted by obesechopper obesechopper wrote:

Originally posted by vik2000 vik2000 wrote:

I don't know why you guys are even arguing. The point is that when you use a bizarre rubber like that, by virtue of using such a rubber you are automatically in an advantageous position in amateur levels. The reason is as simple as it gets. You play against players with inverted rubbers 95% of the time so more or less you are used to them, whereas players with inverted rubbers play with long pips only 5% of the time, so they simply aren't used to the odd spin you generate (whether intentionally or unintentionally) and the rhythm of the play. 

I will say that I have rarely come across an actual skilled LP player. Most use it because they are old or just less athletic in general. There are obviously exceptions and my coach is one of the very few skilled LP players in town with 3,000+ rating. I don't give a shit if you use LP or whatever the fking variant of it that are out there. But I can tell when playing against you whether you are skilled or just using it because you aren't physically capable of using inverted rubbers. 

True. Just the same as people use inverted because their brains are incapable of using strategy, skill, or finesse and so they must attempt to power loop or smash everything in a Crog the Caveman style. Which, coincidentally, is the ideal opponent for a pushblocker LOL

No, I actually think your brain is incapable of understanding a simple logic. Most LP players don't have a fking strategy lol. It looks as if they have a strategy but they look confused as f**k when playing against players who have experience dealing with LP players. 

People don't use inverted because they aren't strategic. It simply requires much more effort and years of practice to be better at inverted. You actually need much higher level of skills to actually EXECUTE your strategy when playing inverted rubbers. I'm starting to think we are just getting a bunch of sensitive LP users defending their style of play as if they are the "smart" players. 

Btw, username checks out. "obesechopper" lol. 

So do you actually believe what you're saying, or do you just make these posts as a way of trolling this thread?  I'm not a pips player and I hope never to become one, and yet even I'm insulted by your remarks.

I was talking over the pushblocker style with another looper (2000 level) and he made the observation that long pips and smooth have different learning curves.  At the start (lower level), it's easier to find success with long pips than with smooth.  Beyond a certain point, it's harder to find success with the pips than smooth.  So being a pips player at 1300 or even 1500 might take less skill than a smooth player at that level.  However, once you get to 1900+, it takes a lot of work (just as much work or maybe more) to keep improving with pips versus smooth.  I can see my friend's point.  The 1900 local pushblocker that I know works very hard on his technique, including regular coaching (from a non-pips coach!) and drilling. 

And then there are your remarks about the popularity of long pips among older players.  It's almost as if you think they shouldn't even be allowed to play the sport.  Of course, when you're older you have physical limitations -- it will happen to you, too, eventually.  But because table tennis was always about skills and tactics, being physically limited doesn't mean you can't compete, it just means adjusting styles, such as playing with LP.

You seem to have a very narrow view of what constitutes "real" table tennis, and i'm very glad that the real world doesn't actually work like that. It would be a very boring sport, indeed.

Mate, you literally repeated what I said. Grow a thicker skin and stop crying like a snowflake. I clearly stated I don't give a shit what rubber you use. I also clearly stated I don't deny there are skilled LP players, but it's much rarer. 

How in the f**k do some ppl get triggered so easily? 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/03/2019 at 7:07pm
Originally posted by vik2000 vik2000 wrote:

Originally posted by obesechopper obesechopper wrote:

Originally posted by vik2000 vik2000 wrote:

I don't know why you guys are even arguing. The point is that when you use a bizarre rubber like that, by virtue of using such a rubber you are automatically in an advantageous position in amateur levels. The reason is as simple as it gets. You play against players with inverted rubbers 95% of the time so more or less you are used to them, whereas players with inverted rubbers play with long pips only 5% of the time, so they simply aren't used to the odd spin you generate (whether intentionally or unintentionally) and the rhythm of the play. 

I will say that I have rarely come across an actual skilled LP player. Most use it because they are old or just less athletic in general. There are obviously exceptions and my coach is one of the very few skilled LP players in town with 3,000+ rating. I don't give a shit if you use LP or whatever the fking variant of it that are out there. But I can tell when playing against you whether you are skilled or just using it because you aren't physically capable of using inverted rubbers. 

True. Just the same as people use inverted because their brains are incapable of using strategy, skill, or finesse and so they must attempt to power loop or smash everything in a Crog the Caveman style. Which, coincidentally, is the ideal opponent for a pushblocker LOL

No, I actually think your brain is incapable of understanding a simple logic. Most LP players don't have a fking strategy lol. It looks as if they have a strategy but they look confused as f**k when playing against players who have experience dealing with LP players. 

People don't use inverted because they aren't strategic. It simply requires much more effort and years of practice to be better at inverted. You actually need much higher level of skills to actually EXECUTE your strategy when playing inverted rubbers. I'm starting to think we are just getting a bunch of sensitive LP users defending their style of play as if they are the "smart" players. 

Btw, username checks out. "obesechopper" lol. 

Me smash hard! How pip man return!?!? Ahh... he no win without goofy rubber! 

I can sense your hatred at losing to people who literally never learned to use the other side of the paddle, lol...

At least we can all agree it is YOUR lack of skill hehe
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/03/2019 at 8:18pm
I could recommend admins to lock that topic, as nothing useful can be found inside.
Lack of time only.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/03/2019 at 9:25pm
Originally posted by obesechopper obesechopper wrote:

Originally posted by vik2000 vik2000 wrote:

Originally posted by obesechopper obesechopper wrote:

Originally posted by vik2000 vik2000 wrote:

I don't know why you guys are even arguing. The point is that when you use a bizarre rubber like that, by virtue of using such a rubber you are automatically in an advantageous position in amateur levels. The reason is as simple as it gets. You play against players with inverted rubbers 95% of the time so more or less you are used to them, whereas players with inverted rubbers play with long pips only 5% of the time, so they simply aren't used to the odd spin you generate (whether intentionally or unintentionally) and the rhythm of the play. 

I will say that I have rarely come across an actual skilled LP player. Most use it because they are old or just less athletic in general. There are obviously exceptions and my coach is one of the very few skilled LP players in town with 3,000+ rating. I don't give a shit if you use LP or whatever the fking variant of it that are out there. But I can tell when playing against you whether you are skilled or just using it because you aren't physically capable of using inverted rubbers. 

True. Just the same as people use inverted because their brains are incapable of using strategy, skill, or finesse and so they must attempt to power loop or smash everything in a Crog the Caveman style. Which, coincidentally, is the ideal opponent for a pushblocker LOL

No, I actually think your brain is incapable of understanding a simple logic. Most LP players don't have a fking strategy lol. It looks as if they have a strategy but they look confused as f**k when playing against players who have experience dealing with LP players. 

People don't use inverted because they aren't strategic. It simply requires much more effort and years of practice to be better at inverted. You actually need much higher level of skills to actually EXECUTE your strategy when playing inverted rubbers. I'm starting to think we are just getting a bunch of sensitive LP users defending their style of play as if they are the "smart" players. 

Btw, username checks out. "obesechopper" lol. 

Me smash hard! How pip man return!?!? Ahh... he no win without goofy rubber! 

I can sense your hatred at losing to people who literally never learned to use the other side of the paddle, lol...

At least we can all agree it is YOUR lack of skill hehe

Stay obese my friend, stay obese and keep LPing. 

I eat newbie LP players for breakfast. I generally struggle with 2,000+ LP players but no complaints because they are skilled. Too bad they are so rare and are nowhere near being representative of the typical unskilled ones. LOL

You know what I sense from you? An obese LP player who sweat profusely after a few games. A person who decided to play TT because he's not athletic for any other sports only to find out he doesn't even have the stamina for inverted rubbers. He does comfort himself by contiously repeating in his head "at least I'm playing smart...". 


Edited by vik2000 - 08/03/2019 at 9:27pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/03/2019 at 10:51pm
it's interesting to see the hate of the LP players on mytt.  LP players still have to put in a lot of time  to become good.  The only advantage  a LP player has is that they constantly play Loopers since it's a common style.  Let's also not forget the great LP players like Joo, Matsushita and Shiono. Each style is unique and should be respected.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/03/2019 at 10:56pm
Originally posted by jpenmaster jpenmaster wrote:

it's interesting to see the hate of the LP players on mytt.  LP players still have to put in a lot of time  to become good.  The only advantage  a LP player has is that they constantly play Loopers since it's a common style.  Let's also not forget the great LP players like Joo, Matsushita and Shiono. Each style is unique and should be respected.


Yeah but nobody here is confusing players like Joo, Matsushita, and Shiono who are great choppers with versatile games, with "push blockers" whos only move seems to be to stick their body in front of the ball and let the racket do whatever it does to get back.

I am not seeing the so called strategy i.e. placement, change of pace, variation in "push blockers" that was mentioned earlier but maybe someone can fill me in.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/03/2019 at 11:14pm
Originally posted by bard romance bard romance wrote:

I am not seeing the so called strategy i.e. placement, change of pace, variation in "push blockers" that was mentioned earlier but maybe someone can fill me in. 


It isn't that you aren't seeing it, it just isn't there.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/03/2019 at 11:20pm
Originally posted by JediJesseS JediJesseS wrote:

Originally posted by bard romance bard romance wrote:

I am not seeing the so called strategy i.e. placement, change of pace, variation in "push blockers" that was mentioned earlier but maybe someone can fill me in. 


It isn't that you aren't seeing it, it just isn't there.

If so, what separates 1200 level pushblocker from 2200 one? 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/03/2019 at 11:29pm
Originally posted by pgpg pgpg wrote:

Originally posted by JediJesseS JediJesseS wrote:

Originally posted by bard romance bard romance wrote:

I am not seeing the so called strategy i.e. placement, change of pace, variation in "push blockers" that was mentioned earlier but maybe someone can fill me in. 


It isn't that you aren't seeing it, it just isn't there.

If so, what separates 1200 level pushblocker from 2200 one? 


Being better at sticking your body and racket in front of the ball and letting it do whatever happens and hoping for a mistake.


Edited by bard romance - 08/03/2019 at 11:30pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/04/2019 at 12:03am
Originally posted by bard romance bard romance wrote:

Originally posted by pgpg pgpg wrote:

Originally posted by JediJesseS JediJesseS wrote:

Originally posted by bard romance bard romance wrote:

I am not seeing the so called strategy i.e. placement, change of pace, variation in "push blockers" that was mentioned earlier but maybe someone can fill me in. 


It isn't that you aren't seeing it, it just isn't there.

If so, what separates 1200 level pushblocker from 2200 one? 


Being better at sticking your body and racket in front of the ball and letting it do whatever happens and hoping for a mistake.
You guys are just too funny. I assume this means none of you have ever played a PB style player over 1300? Otherwise, you would know better.
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