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Hurricane 3 Advice please

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fmarek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/19/2019 at 8:50am
Quote I obviously don't expect to master H3 in one month, but I'm hoping to at least see some improvement.

2 months is reasonable milestone. 
H38 degrees (DHS scale) is easier to master https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1484382842.html
Red might be more sticky than black. This H38 is not the same as H39. 

H39 is more difficult to play but it produces astonishing shots when angle is right. 

Boosted will play differently. In my case 2 layers of falco on H39 sponge made it softer, faster. 
But also made dwell time shorter, so it became different rubber all together. 

Would I boost H3 again? No, no, no. 

Why?
It is not going to get more sticky and actually it does not need to. H3 out of package and during next 100 hours of play is insanely tacky = spinny.

Will you be able to produce more spin with boosted? Please note, that I am not saying "is it possible to produce more spin with boosted comparing to normal?" I am emphasising, "will you be able to produce more spin, given that dwell time is going to be shorter?"

If H3 is not fast enough for me, what would I do instead of boosting? I will get H3 NEO, which is factory boosted. What's the difference comparing to self boosted? 1) Boosting effect is consistent across the whole sheet when done properly at the factory. 2) It does not curl.

Consider this simple list of commercial H3 variations (below $20 USD):

1) H39 degrees 
2) H39 degrees boosted
3) Neo H39 degrees factory boosted
4) H38 degrees

Which one is better to learn TT skills with? Yes, answer is #4 - H38 degrees. It is slowest, softest. So dwell time is longest on brushes.

All variants will happily and annoyingly expose all imperfections in your skills. 

But why to bother if it's so painful? In my case, I wanted to develop powerful strokes, so I knew that I will need to engage muscles and was ready to sweat a lot :)) Lesson learned - there is a limit how much power I can put if I use my arm/chest muscles. Anything above that limit results in unpredictable shot, sometimes Ok, bust most often - a miss. 

Why? Arm muscles are not relaxed any more. Not relaxed muscles = no consistency and no power.

Okay, how does that supposed to work then? With the help of my coach I found out that H3 is not built for use with arm/chest muscles. Extensive use of wrist and elbow is good trick to add speed to the stroke, but it's optional. (I am taking about FH)

The basis for the stroke is abdominal muscle group combined with right side quads (for right handed player). Engaging these muscles into stroke as main source of force will let arm to stay relaxed and will lead to faster racket speed. That what H3 wants from you. Fast stroke preferably with acceleration.

Aha, easy to say. To execute such a shot during game one have to anticipate ball trajectory and know what steps to take to put legs in right place. Bloody difficult and no fun to learn. Not at all.

Someone in this thread warned that if one manages to tame H3 then it will be no going back. I agree, other rubbers, especially European tensors will feel quite funny after that :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hozuki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/19/2019 at 9:12am
He is correct. Use softer Hurricane.
Before the ABS balls, tensors used to be no harder than 47,5 degree. Now european pros use 50-53 degree rubbers, and heavily boosted.

If you buy 39 deg hurricane (the softest neo), it is already 50-52 degree with harder topsheet than most euro rubbers.
And even if you boost your 40 deg one, it will not become softer than that.
So are you pro?
Well, so don't expect wonders. Get a soft 38 hurricane. Try to fully engange the sponge.
Once you can do that consistently on your shots, you can consider getting 39 degrees.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ericd937 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/24/2019 at 7:56pm
A quick update. I'm starting to get the hang of H3 slightly, but I need to put in a lot more work. At least I'm no longer getting crushed by everyone I play. For now, I've settled on the Commercial H3 Neo on a custom Hinoki/T5000 blade. I've been playing that setup for about 2 weeks. I tried both the Commercial H3 Neo and H3 provincial 39 degrees orange sponge on a few different blades. The Neo is simply easier for me to use at this time. Maybe the other one needs more booster or break-in time, but it just didn't feel great on any of the blades I tried. I also tried both of the rubbers on Stiga Clipper Wood as most people suggested, but it just didn't feel good. My coach didn't like them on the Clipper either. It could just be that Clipper isn't a good one since it was purchased in the Vietnam market. 

Chop4ever is sending me some H3 sheets to try out, if I don't like those I may give the 38 degrees H3 a try (as suggest above) at some point. Also, my coach suggested that H3 Neo Provincial Blue Sponge is higher quality, more dynamic, and has a better feel than the commercial im currently using. Honestly, for now I'm pretty alright with the boosted H3 Neo Commercial.


Edited by ericd937 - 09/24/2019 at 9:15pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/25/2019 at 10:25am
Originally posted by ericd937 ericd937 wrote:

A quick update. I'm starting to get the hang of H3 slightly, but I need to put in a lot more work. At least I'm no longer getting crushed by everyone I play. For now, I've settled on the Commercial H3 Neo on a custom Hinoki/T5000 blade. I've been playing that setup for about 2 weeks. I tried both the Commercial H3 Neo and H3 provincial 39 degrees orange sponge on a few different blades. The Neo is simply easier for me to use at this time. Maybe the other one needs more booster or break-in time, but it just didn't feel great on any of the blades I tried. I also tried both of the rubbers on Stiga Clipper Wood as most people suggested, but it just didn't feel good. My coach didn't like them on the Clipper either. It could just be that Clipper isn't a good one since it was purchased in the Vietnam market. 

Chop4ever is sending me some H3 sheets to try out, if I don't like those I may give the 38 degrees H3 a try (as suggest above) at some point. Also, my coach suggested that H3 Neo Provincial Blue Sponge is higher quality, more dynamic, and has a better feel than the commercial im currently using. Honestly, for now I'm pretty alright with the boosted H3 Neo Commercial.
Interesting - is there anything special about Chop's H3 (from what he told you).  BS bubbles easily.  I thought initially it was caused by TempoLong but I just bubbled a sheet boosted with KaiLin.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ericd937 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/25/2019 at 1:28pm
[/QUOTE]Interesting - is there anything special about Chop's H3 (from what he told you).  BS bubbles easily.  I thought initially it was caused by TempoLong but I just bubbled a sheet boosted with KaiLin.[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure what that difference is, but from what I understand DHS has multiple factories and all of the Hurricane rubbers even of the same type are not created equal.

When you talk about the blue sponge bubbling, is that all of them or is it specifically the Neo blue sponge?  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/25/2019 at 3:06pm
Originally posted by ericd937 ericd937 wrote:

[/QUOTE]
Interesting - is there anything special about Chop's H3 (from what he told you).  BS bubbles easily.  I thought initially it was caused by TempoLong but I just bubbled a sheet boosted with KaiLin.[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure what that difference is, but from what I understand DHS has multiple factories and all of the Hurricane rubbers even of the same type are not created equal.

When you talk about the blue sponge bubbling, is that all of them or is it specifically the Neo blue sponge?  
[/QUOTE]The ones that bubbled were not Neos, it might make a difference since some said the Neo top sheet is a bit tougher.  I have a sheet of Neo that hasn't bubbled yet but I did not boost it.   Not helpful - I guess you could try your luck and if your first sheet bubbles then you don't have to get a second one.

Edited by tom - 09/25/2019 at 3:13pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote icontek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2019 at 3:18pm
Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

The ones that bubbled were not Neos, it might make a difference since some said the Neo top sheet is a bit tougher.  I have a sheet of Neo that hasn't bubbled yet but I did not boost it.   Not helpful - I guess you could try your luck and if your first sheet bubbles then you don't have to get a second one.

Many of the "blue sponge provincials" will bubble if you apply booster directly to the blue sponge as the booster outgassing into the topsheet seems to weaken the bonds between sponge and topsheet. You get the highest, immediate performance, but destroy sheets often this way.

I'm pretty sure that you can prevent this bubbling by applying a thicker glue layer and boost that. It will take longer to boost (a week or two of prep) and it's possible to overboost because the glue layer delays the boost effect. Conversely, the boosting will last longer, because the glue layer will release the booster into the sponge slower than if directly applied to sponge.

Until you get a real feel for the process I describe, you will likely screw up some glue jobs by applying them to the blade before they stretch. You may overboost some sheets and not realize it because they are so slow to stretch.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2019 at 3:32pm
Originally posted by icontek icontek wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

The ones that bubbled were not Neos, it might make a difference since some said the Neo top sheet is a bit tougher.  I have a sheet of Neo that hasn't bubbled yet but I did not boost it.   Not helpful - I guess you could try your luck and if your first sheet bubbles then you don't have to get a second one.

Many of the "blue sponge provincials" will bubble if you apply booster directly to the blue sponge as the booster outgassing into the topsheet seems to weaken the bonds between sponge and topsheet. You get the highest, immediate performance, but destroy sheets often this way.

I'm pretty sure that you can prevent this bubbling by applying a thicker glue layer and boost that. It will take longer to boost (a week or two of prep) and it's possible to overboost because the glue layer delays the boost effect. Conversely, the boosting will last longer, because the glue layer will release the booster into the sponge slower than if directly applied to sponge.

Until you get a real feel for the process I describe, you will likely screw up some glue jobs by applying them to the blade before they stretch. You may overboost some sheets and not realize it because they are so slow to stretch.
Thanks I will wait wait longer for it to flatten and make sure the base glue layer is adequate on my next sheet and hopefully won't be reporting another bubbling.  Or maybe my FH is just too powerful (just kidding).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Pimple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2019 at 4:05pm
Originally posted by icontek icontek wrote:

Many of the "blue sponge provincials" will bubble if you apply booster directly to the blue sponge as the booster outgassing into the topsheet seems to weaken the bonds between sponge and topsheet.
The booster does NOT outgas since it is not a VOC (volatile organic compound). That's the hole point of the booster. However it diffuses through the sponge.
By the way, I never had this problem with the Prov Neo BS is use but I only use one moderate layer of booster.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote icontek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/01/2019 at 6:21pm
Originally posted by Matt Pimple Matt Pimple wrote:

Originally posted by icontek icontek wrote:

Many of the "blue sponge provincials" will bubble if you apply booster directly to the blue sponge as the booster outgassing into the topsheet seems to weaken the bonds between sponge and topsheet.
The booster does NOT outgas since it is not a VOC (volatile organic compound). That's the hole point of the booster. However it diffuses through the sponge.
By the way, I never had this problem with the Prov Neo BS is use but I only use one moderate layer of booster.


ahh -  sorry i misunderstood. I assumed that the boosting effect passing through the glue into the sponge was chemical and not physical.

is it possible that there are different interactions between falco and some of the glues?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/03/2019 at 9:41am
Originally posted by ericd937 ericd937 wrote:

A quick update. I'm starting to get the hang of H3 slightly, but I need to put in a lot more work. At least I'm no longer getting crushed by everyone I play. For now, I've settled on the Commercial H3 Neo on a custom Hinoki/T5000 blade. I've been playing that setup for about 2 weeks. I tried both the Commercial H3 Neo and H3 provincial 39 degrees orange sponge on a few different blades. The Neo is simply easier for me to use at this time. Maybe the other one needs more booster or break-in time, but it just didn't feel great on any of the blades I tried. I also tried both of the rubbers on Stiga Clipper Wood as most people suggested, but it just didn't feel good. My coach didn't like them on the Clipper either. It could just be that Clipper isn't a good one since it was purchased in the Vietnam market. 

Chop4ever is sending me some H3 sheets to try out, if I don't like those I may give the 38 degrees H3 a try (as suggest above) at some point. Also, my coach suggested that H3 Neo Provincial Blue Sponge is higher quality, more dynamic, and has a better feel than the commercial im currently using. Honestly, for now I'm pretty alright with the boosted H3 Neo Commercial.
Ericd, any more progress / update?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fmarek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/03/2019 at 9:53am
Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

Ericd, any more progress / update?

+1
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Viscaria ALC, FH: DHS Hurricane3 H38 deg, BH: DHS Hurricane3 Neo H39
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/03/2019 at 5:09pm
tempted to get a commercial neo (never tried that version) and try it unboosted then boosted - anyone think it is a waste of time ? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ericd937 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/03/2019 at 8:59pm
Originally posted by fmarek fmarek wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

Ericd, any more progress / update?

+1

I'm currently still playing the boosted commercial H3 Neo. I also received the rubbers from Chop4ever. 
He sent me 6 rubbers in total. Thanks again for that! Two sheets of H3 Neo, Two sheets of H3, and two secondhand sheets of H2. Of the Neo sheets, one is labeled soft and one is labeled hard, but they both have the labels crossed out and 41 degrees is hand written over the label. The H3 sheets also have the labels crossed out and are hand written as 40.5. 

I'm slightly hesitant to try anything different just yet since I'm finally starting to see a little bit of light at the end of the tunnel using the boosted H3 Neo. I'm actually currently playing somewhat okay. When I tried playing Provincial H3 (non Neo) #20 orange sponge, I felt like there was going to be too much of a learning curve going from the Neo. It didn't necessarily feel better or worse than the Neo, I just had to adjust and I didn't feel like it would be worth it at that time. Going forward, I'm not sure if I should just wait until my current sheet wears out or give one of the new rubbers a go. I guess the H3 Neo would be the logical place to start. Any suggestions Chop4ever or anyone else? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chop4ever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/03/2019 at 10:14pm
Originally posted by ericd937 ericd937 wrote:

Originally posted by fmarek fmarek wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

Ericd, any more progress / update?

+1

I'm currently still playing the boosted commercial H3 Neo. I also received the rubbers from Chop4ever. 
He sent me 6 rubbers in total. Thanks again for that! Two sheets of H3 Neo, Two sheets of H3, and two secondhand sheets of H2. Of the Neo sheets, one is labeled soft and one is labeled hard, but they both have the labels crossed out and 41 degrees is hand written over the label. The H3 sheets also have the labels crossed out and are hand written as 40.5. 

I'm slightly hesitant to try anything different just yet since I'm finally starting to see a little bit of light at the end of the tunnel using the boosted H3 Neo. I'm actually currently playing somewhat okay. When I tried playing Provincial H3 (non Neo) #20 orange sponge, I felt like there was going to be too much of a learning curve going from the Neo. It didn't necessarily feel better or worse than the Neo, I just had to adjust and I didn't feel like it would be worth it at that time. Going forward, I'm not sure if I should just wait until my current sheet wears out or give one of the new rubbers a go. I guess the H3 Neo would be the logical place to start. Any suggestions Chop4ever or anyone else? 

Oh, I thought they are old H3 and H2, not 2 H2...
anw, try all the "secondhand" rubber first without any booster and see if you have found the light?
The H2 I gave you is the best one. As no-one use H2 hence I could choose for me all the best quality. two 2nd rubbers has been boosted long time ago (about 3 months) but they are still fast enough.

Then unpack the neo H3, play without any booster to see if it is weak as all rubbers you have used before?
The original H3 needs 2 layers of Reviver (pls do not ever apply Falco on my rubber), let it set down for 3 days and glue it to blade when it is still dome. However, if you have time and want to experiment more, then you should play them without booster first. After 10 hours hitting, the H3 will be elastic enough as tuned.

I use to play without booster.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ericd937 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/04/2019 at 1:16am
I double checked. You are correct. One is secondhand H2 and one is secondhand H3. My mistake. 

The commercial H3 Neo I'm using now took some time to get used to it, and to get it to where I liked the feeling. I first tried two thin layers of Reviver, but didn't like it on the first blade. Forgot about it for 3 or 4 weeks and continued playing with Tenergy. Decided to try again, then put two more thin layers of Reviver on it, tried it on a Clipper Wood. It was okay on that one. Better, but not amazing. Played that way for about 3 weeks. Then took it off, put on more layer of Reviver and put it on a Hinoki/T5000 custom blade. I like this set up. Its feels and plays pretty good now. So, I'll stick with this blade moving forward to try the new rubbers. Are those new NEO rubbers labeled at 41 going to feel really hard without any tuning? 


Edited by ericd937 - 10/04/2019 at 1:25am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fmarek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/04/2019 at 2:31am
Dont change before current worns out. Just dont waste efforts you already put in.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/04/2019 at 10:34am
Originally posted by fmarek fmarek wrote:

Dont change before current worns out. Just dont waste efforts you already put in.
that will take months - could try it  on the BH side just to compare (using it for FH) - of course Ericd will have to eventually put the BH rubber back.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fmarek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/04/2019 at 11:57am
Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

Originally posted by fmarek fmarek wrote:

Dont change before current worns out. Just dont waste efforts you already put in.
that will take months - could try it  on the BH side just to compare (using it for FH) - of course Ericd will have to eventually put the BH rubber back.

I am sure he is smart enough to leave this setup as is and for trying out new stuff - glue it on another blade.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/04/2019 at 1:33pm
Originally posted by fmarek fmarek wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

Originally posted by fmarek fmarek wrote:

Dont change before current worns out. Just dont waste efforts you already put in.
that will take months - could try it  on the BH side just to compare (using it for FH) - of course Ericd will have to eventually put the BH rubber back.

I am sure he is smart enough to leave this setup as is and for trying out new stuff - glue it on another blade.
The point is he didn't like his neo on the other blades, so gluing the other rubbers onto the other blades won't give a good comparison.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chop4ever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/05/2019 at 9:59am
Give it an ALC blade to try.
Hardness is relative. That scale is consistent but couldn't compare to DHS scale.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fmarek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/06/2019 at 9:46am
Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

Originally posted by fmarek fmarek wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

Originally posted by fmarek fmarek wrote:

Dont change before current worns out. Just dont waste efforts you already put in.
that will take months - could try it  on the BH side just to compare (using it for FH) - of course Ericd will have to eventually put the BH rubber back.

I am sure he is smart enough to leave this setup as is and for trying out new stuff - glue it on another blade.
The point is he didn't like his neo on the other blades, so gluing the other rubbers onto the other blades won't give a good comparison.

That makes sense. 

I will feel sorry for Ericd if he swaps boosted neo to plain h3 right now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/06/2019 at 12:55pm
Originally posted by fmarek fmarek wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

Originally posted by fmarek fmarek wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

Originally posted by fmarek fmarek wrote:

Dont change before current worns out. Just dont waste efforts you already put in.
that will take months - could try it  on the BH side just to compare (using it for FH) - of course Ericd will have to eventually put the BH rubber back.

I am sure he is smart enough to leave this setup as is and for trying out new stuff - glue it on another blade.
The point is he didn't like his neo on the other blades, so gluing the other rubbers onto the other blades won't give a good comparison.

That makes sense. 

I will feel sorry for Ericd if he swaps boosted neo to plain h3 right now.
this might well be - but the force of the EJ might have something to say

Edited by tom - 10/06/2019 at 12:56pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ericd937 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/11/2019 at 2:22am
So, I briefly tested the secondhand sheet of H2 from Chop4ever. I did give it a small retune with Reviver Phoenix before putting it on. I tried it on Xiom Zetro Quad with H3 Provincial #20 orange sponge on the other side (39 Degrees). My initial impression is that in comparison, H2 was much slower and maybe a little bit spinnier than the rubber on the other side. I did notice the serves with H2 were quite loaded with spin. In play, the H2 felt a lot less lively that any of the H3 variants I've been playing recently. I will test it a bit more. I was also surprised that the H3 Provincial felt really lively, crisp and direct on Zetro Quad, much better than it felt on the other blades I've tried it on.
Current Setup: Trying to learn H3
Official USATT Rating 1815
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/11/2019 at 9:58am
Originally posted by ericd937 ericd937 wrote:

So, I briefly tested the secondhand sheet of H2 from Chop4ever. I did give it a small retune with Reviver Phoenix before putting it on. I tried it on Xiom Zetro Quad with H3 Provincial #20 orange sponge on the other side (39 Degrees). My initial impression is that in comparison, H2 was much slower and maybe a little bit spinnier than the rubber on the other side. I did notice the serves with H2 were quite loaded with spin. In play, the H2 felt a lot less lively that any of the H3 variants I've been playing recently. I will test it a bit more. I was also surprised that the H3 Provincial felt really lively, crisp and direct on Zetro Quad, much better than it felt on the other blades I've tried it on.
so you inadvertently discovered a good matching blade - that is something.  I am surprised at your findings from what I read about the H2.  Thanks for the info.  I am sure Chop will add to the discussion.

Edited by tom - 10/11/2019 at 9:59am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chop4ever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/12/2019 at 5:54am
Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

Originally posted by ericd937 ericd937 wrote:

So, I briefly tested the secondhand sheet of H2 from Chop4ever. I did give it a small retune with Reviver Phoenix before putting it on. I tried it on Xiom Zetro Quad with H3 Provincial #20 orange sponge on the other side (39 Degrees). My initial impression is that in comparison, H2 was much slower and maybe a little bit spinnier than the rubber on the other side. I did notice the serves with H2 were quite loaded with spin. In play, the H2 felt a lot less lively that any of the H3 variants I've been playing recently. I will test it a bit more. I was also surprised that the H3 Provincial felt really lively, crisp and direct on Zetro Quad, much better than it felt on the other blades I've tried it on.
so you inadvertently discovered a good matching blade - that is something.  I am surprised at your findings from what I read about the H2.  Thanks for the info.  I am sure Chop will add to the discussion.

It is the taste difference. For me, H2 and H3 are the same level of use.
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