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Nittaku Hurricane Turbo Blue vs DHS H8

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Hans Regenkurt View Drop Down
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    Posted: 11/27/2019 at 6:02pm
I have read a lot of reviews that exalted Nittaku's Hurricane III version and it made me want to try it out myself. Under normal circumstances I do not play with Chinese rubbers because when I tried fellow players' commercial H3s, including the Neo version,  I did not find them to be special. I do not wish to disrespect to the people who are well trained players and use one of the Hurricane variants but the Hurricane users in my league and around that level are people who have serious deficiencies in their technique or are just too old or overweight to use springy european rubbers. I repeat, I know there are many people on this forum who are competent players and use Hurricane effectively.

Most people I know or play use Tibhar MXP or FXP and they boost. Through testing the Nittaku H3 Turbo Blue I hope to find out whether a quality Chinese rubber can fill in a gap in the sense that it overcomes the weaknesses of MXP - I feel its springiness limits placement options in tight situations. I also hope to find a rubber that may bring back spin variation into the game where placement a speed prevails mostly.

I also want to see how H8 Hard differs from the Nittaku Hurricane.

The test subjects are: Nittaku Hurricane Turbo Blue Sponge max thickness and DHS H8 Hard 2.15. Both of them came from TT11 who provide excellent customer service.

The first round of testing took place today, this time only the Nittaku Hurricane was under the magnifying glass.

The sheet I got weighs 89 gramms uncut and it does not pick up a ball nor does it hold it for seconds. It does have a smell which I find identical to the smell that a sheet of Sanwei Target Pro Provincial gives off (perhaps also the Yinhe Jupiter 3 has this smell too). The H8 sheet weighs 65 gramms with just the protective foil on but its four corners are cut so I can quite imagine that it could be over if it was a full rectangle.

I put the Nittaku Hurricane on a Yasaka Sweden Guardian with short pimples on the other side.




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Hans Regenkurt View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Regenkurt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/27/2019 at 6:36pm
Initial observations: I do not find the Nittaku H3Turbo to be a rubber that can be played on a higher level as it is out of the package. A lot of the reviews mention that it needs to be boosted to get the best effect and I completely agree with those who say that.

Contrary to some reviews, I do not find it extremely hard overall. It may be a little harder than a Gewo Nexxus EL 53 but it is not as hard as some other Chinese rubbers. It may be because of the soft-feeling topsheet which has very short pimples compared to a classical National H3.

Countering and pushing is okay with the rubber. Serving too but I have not noticed anything out of this world. To me the most important part is looping. What sets it apart from other Chinese rubbers is that it produces  an arc that gives plenty of security over the net (big window effect). However, this only applies if the users is in perfect position, otherwise balls tend to go into the bottom of the net. Spin is very good on well executed loops and several people observed that the ball's flight path is very different t what they usually get from me. The flight path stays stable even when 2.5 meters away from the table provided the user is in good position.

Although the Nittaku H3 Turbo is faster out of the package compared to the Chinese rubbers I have tried out, it does not produce a speed that can be sufficient to hit past opponents of a higher level. Its speed is similar to Donic's Bluegrip V version (although it is a completely different rubber).

The quality of the rubber is very good and the sponge has tiny pores. It is similar to the Sanwei Provincial rubber mentioned above but the sponge seems to be of better quality.

My conclusion after the first 90 minutes of training: it is a very good rubber that can produce good spin on loops but lacks in speed. It definitely wants tuned. I put two layers of Falco Long on it and it very quickly reacted to the oil. Its center rose 5-6 centimeters from the horizontal in less than two hours. I will wait until it gets flat again which is probably a week.

In spite of its good build quality I am sure no serious player would use this rubber untuned. More to follow...


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Fulanodetal View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fulanodetal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/27/2019 at 8:08pm
Does not need to be boosted.

That's all personal preference, not a requirement.


FdT
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fmarek View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fmarek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/28/2019 at 12:52am
Nice review!

I am wondering how boosting of h3 would solve the problem of control which is observed in euro/jap mentioned above.

Is it possible to increase control and speed at the same time? Dont think so. Hm..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hunkeelin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/28/2019 at 1:51am
the turbo ornage is better than turbo blue. THe turbo blue is too hard and heavy. The turbo orange can be played without boost after breakin
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Hans Regenkurt View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Regenkurt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/28/2019 at 1:58am
My experience shows that boosting optimizes the way the rubber releases the ball. This is the phase where the control problems stem from in the case of untuned rubbers and it is clearly more noticeable with untuned Chinese rubbers. You cannot really carry out loping strokes with full power because the ball goes into the net.

So even if the booster does not increase the speed of the sponge itself, it does help improve the efficiency of energy transfer which at the end of the day results in speed increase.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DreiZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/28/2019 at 2:25am
Originally posted by Hans Regenkurt Hans Regenkurt wrote:

My experience shows that boosting optimizes the way the rubber releases the ball. This is the phase where the control problems stem from in the case of untuned rubbers and it is clearly more noticeable with untuned Chinese rubbers. You cannot really carry out loping strokes with full power because the ball goes into the net.

So even if the booster does not increase the speed of the sponge itself, it does help improve the efficiency of energy transfer which at the end of the day results in speed increase.

i had a similar experience with boosting h3 neo, i thought i overboosted it but after it settled in few days i felt it had way more catapult and control at the same time whereas an unboosted h3 neo had way less catapult and i felt i was driving the ball more than looping.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fmarek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/28/2019 at 3:07am
Interesting guys.

I've never noticed any increase in control when moving the same rubbers to faster blade. Nor when putting faster rubbers on the same blade. Only going step down in speed i was noticing a better control. In this context by control I mean sending balls more or less where intended without sacrificing power (without being more careful)

Not saying impossible but it really puzzles me how boosting (softening) produces same thing. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote serr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/28/2019 at 3:32am
Would the nittaku version suit modern defensive style? Does it chop better than Euro rubbers? (unboosted only)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nv42 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/28/2019 at 4:05am
Originally posted by Hans Regenkurt Hans Regenkurt wrote:

My experience shows that boosting optimizes the way the rubber releases the ball. This is the phase where the control problems stem from in the case of untuned rubbers and it is clearly more noticeable with untuned Chinese rubbers. You cannot really carry out loping strokes with full power because the ball goes into the net.

So even if the booster does not increase the speed of the sponge itself, it does help improve the efficiency of energy transfer which at the end of the day results in speed increase.
+1. This is exactly what I've felt when boosting brick hard rubbers. Even t05H feels a whole lot better to me with around 2 really thin layers of falco long. Even after the boosting has worn off, I do get a slightly slower rubber with a weaker top end power than an unboosted t05H, but the lower and med gears feel a lot more easy to access and the ball feel while looping feels a whole lot better too. But yeah, whenever I've tried boosting med hard or med rubbers, they seem to play pretty bad after the boosting wears off.

So yeah, boosting really hard rubbers can help tune them a bit so that the overall playabitliy and ball feel gets slightly better imo. 
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Hans Regenkurt View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Regenkurt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/28/2019 at 6:19am
Originally posted by serr serr wrote:

Would the nittaku version suit modern defensive style? Does it chop better than Euro rubbers? (unboosted only)


Definitely not.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote serr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/28/2019 at 7:01am
since being slower and spinnier I thought it would... So why exactly not?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Regenkurt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/28/2019 at 5:55pm
Because when it is untuned, it will not pick up balls in situations where you need to move and reach the ball quickly. The ball will simply drop off the rubber, regardless of whether it is a chop or a push or a countertopspin.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Regenkurt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/28/2019 at 6:25pm
The second round of testing took place, this time I played with the H8 Hard with one layer of Falco Long. It feels a bit harder than the Nittaku. I was not satisfied with the way it behaved and I was surprised how many service receives I missed with it.  My training partner has a H8 too, but it is the soft version. When I asked him how come that his rubber works perfectly compared to mine he said he had put 6 layers of Revolution glue on his. So I decided to add some other layers of oil to both the Nittaku and my H8.

Anyway, I have discovered some differences between the two strictly in terms of loops. The blue sponged Nittaku seems to produce more spin close to the table and more easily. Also, the Nittaku seems to produce loops that have a bigger clearance over the net. The tradeoff is that the H8 seems to produce loops that are faster and with a longer trajectory.

As both rubbers are being tuned it will take at least a week before I can compare the two on the same blade and with the same amount of boosting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hozuki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/29/2019 at 2:04pm
According to manufacturers' ratings, H3 Blue Turbo has the hardest sponge of all rubbers commercially available, coming with a whopping 60 degree sponge hardness (ESN). 
The only other rubbers that come close are the oddities Victas VS 401 and Xiom Vega DEF (57,5).

Why? Because usually rubbers that hard do not have enough elasticity. They feel like bricks. And seem 'slow', when in reality, they are the fastest, most powerful rubbers, but need an equally powerful stroke to activate the high gear. So they are a no-no to the average Joe. But maybe enough booster makes them elastic enough to seem 'usable' for the non-superhuman. Maybe.

Anyways, you might want to ask yourself, why you think H8 feels harder than a H3TBS, given a 6-10 degree objective hardness difference. In the best case, the new H3 posseses a much better elasticity, which makes it "seem" softer. This would be a similar effect as observed on the new Vega DEF, which, despite being very hard, does not need additional tuning to be playable.

Remember, elasticity and hardness are two very distinct factors.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote topspinschuss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/29/2019 at 2:27pm
Also remember that you are not used to sticky Chinese rubbers. No matter how much you boost you can't just switch from Mx-p to H3 and expect the ball to get to the other side of the net with the same technique you were using before. Both the loop and even the push (you can't just touch the ball and expect it to bounce off your racket) require a different technique due to the stickiness. Even if your rubber does not pick up the ball it's still sticky. To see (approximately) how fast Chinese rubbers would be without the stickiness, just put a protection film on your rubber and bounce a ball with it. 

So, if you really want to test these rubbers, you need at least a few weeks to months of adjusting your technique. Then your comparison will be objective. But then you'll also have trouble playing with a Mx-p because it will suddenly feel too bouncy and uncontrolled. Smile


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote topspinschuss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/29/2019 at 2:30pm
By the way...2-3 layers are more than enough. Don't overboost trying to get the same speed from a chinese rubber as you would from a Mx-p. You *will* get the same speed and more spin and control once you adjust your technique. Otherwise you'll just keep your old technique, lose control due to overboosting/excessive speed and then just come to the conclusion that Chinese rubber "sucks."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hozuki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/30/2019 at 11:11am
I agree with topspinschuss. All valid and important considerations.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hunkeelin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/03/2019 at 6:04pm
don't use h3 turbo blue, it's a brick and it's heavy as well. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Regenkurt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2019 at 5:08pm
Update from today's session: both the H8 and the Nittaku Hurricane was boosted with 3 layers of Falco Long a week ago. I glued them on yesterday and took them to today's training. The was still a considerable dome on both of them so I will take them off and reglue them in the coming  days. 

Here are my impressions from today, tested with Joola Flash: boosting had a good effect on the Nittaku H3. The behaviour inconsistencies went away and I got a rubber that is significantly more reliable than when unboosted. Loops executed from maximum 2 meters away had very good spin and a low but safe arc over the net. Any loops from further than 2 meters carry the risk of going into the net. It is still doable but needs more attention.

Interestingly, prior to today's test I would have guessed that I would like the H8 more but I turned out to be completely wrong.  The H8 is less in terms of speed and spin.

The Nittaku H3 was on a Gewo Robles 7 ply blade, the H8 was on a Mizuno Fortius FT. I am giving the rubbers another go during next week after regluing them.

In brief:

Spin: NH3TB > H8
Speed: NH3TB > H8
Control is better on the Nittaku too.

A word of caution about the  Nittaku: it is not easy to use, even when boosted (neither is the H8). I would warn anyone against believing that it is a rubber that is brand new technology and it can yield better results than most European tensors or Tenergy. It is a quality H3 and that is all. The price from TT11 if you have the 25% discount is very reasonable and at that price I would and possibly will buy it again.

I am going to test it with Nittaku Premium balls next week.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fulanodetal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2019 at 5:13pm
I would try both rubbers on the same blade to eliminate that factor in your experiment.


FdT
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hozuki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2019 at 9:12pm
I took a look at some more japanese reviews of NH3TB and the general opinion is that the rubber is crazy hard, you need to loopdrive hard on every ball or the ball isn't spinny or fast, control is very dependent on your technique, and it's super spin sensitive. Not good for short strokes or passive play.

So like I said before, this rubber is unsuitable for around 95% of players.
One can only utilize it well, if he has good footwork, weight transfer, a young and strong body, experience with chinese rubbers, very efficient and powerful strokes, and lots of stamina.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fulanodetal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/08/2019 at 2:41am
Hozuki....how long did you actually use Nittakku Hurricane 3Turbo Blue for?

I think you are exaggerating in your assessment.

After 2 weeks the sponge soften a little and it feels pretty good. 
I've been using it since earlier this year. I have no complaints. Feels pretty close to the DHS version.

FdT
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Regenkurt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/08/2019 at 4:41am
Originally posted by Hozuki Hozuki wrote:

I took a look at some more japanese reviews of NH3TB and the general opinion is that the rubber is crazy hard, you need to loopdrive hard on every ball or the ball isn't spinny or fast, control is very dependent on your technique, and it's super spin sensitive. Not good for short strokes or passive play.

So like I said before, this rubber is unsuitable for around 95% of players.
One can only utilize it well, if he has good footwork, weight transfer, a young and strong body, experience with chinese rubbers, very efficient and powerful strokes, and lots of stamina.


It is pretty much how I would describe the rubber when untuned.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Regenkurt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/08/2019 at 4:44am
Originally posted by Fulanodetal Fulanodetal wrote:

I would try both rubbers on the same blade to eliminate that factor in your experiment.


FdT


I put them on a Yasaka Sweden Guardian before putting them on offensive blades. The result was the same, that is, the Nittaku H3 was spinnier and loops from it had more arch compared to the H8.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote achoomai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/08/2019 at 4:58am
Another rubber that may worth to compare

My feedback : http://www.mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=58844&PN=1#726094
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ultraspin98 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/08/2019 at 6:48am
Originally posted by Fulanodetal Fulanodetal wrote:

I would try both rubbers on the same blade to eliminate that factor in your experiment.


FdT

I will wait for your review. Now I'm using h8 and it has crazy spin, I was considering to buy NH3TB
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