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USATT Board- USOC

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    Posted: 11/29/2019 at 11:12am
Word is,and it has been verified, that the Olympic committee is demanding that the USATT board of directors needs to resign by Dec. 18 or lose there status as a NGB.
Once again our leaders have let us down. How could this happen when there are several reps from the USOC on our board already?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mjamja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/29/2019 at 3:41pm
Is there any written info or is it word of mouth?

Either way, what is known about the issues between them.

Mark
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote 74384793057 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/01/2019 at 5:09pm
Separate table-tennis associations that parallel ITTF & NGBs but focus on amateur competitive ( mostly veteran / club / fun ) players with modified rules may serve table tennis better & leave NGBs separate puppet arms of National OCs to serve professional TT players.

In fact  ITTF could itself initiate this as a separate but parallel arm of ITTF  with its own NGBS. This arm could be even used to experiment & test rule changes (especially those for spectator involvement) before getting implemented at professional level .  

But then again this may create only more politics & maybe a competing Global TT group would serve TT better   


Edited by 74384793057 - 12/01/2019 at 5:14pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfolsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/01/2019 at 5:23pm
Unfortunately, the USOC gets to decide who the national governing body is. So you could start an amateur organization, but it would have no authority and the ITTF would (effectively) be unable to recognize it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote alphapong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/04/2019 at 2:17am
Originally posted by mjamja mjamja wrote:

Is there any written info or is it word of mouth?


I think the current "written info" is probably not for public consumption. Likely USATT will make a statement before too long. 


Edited by alphapong - 12/04/2019 at 2:21am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/04/2019 at 8:50am
Originally posted by jfolsen jfolsen wrote:

Unfortunately, the USOC gets to decide who the national governing body is. So you could start an amateur organization, but it would have no authority and the ITTF would (effectively) be unable to recognize it.

Well, this is an interesting case here.  Could this statement: the USOC gets to decide who the national governing body is be rewritten as: the USOC gets to decide who the national governing body is for table tennis in the Olympics?  Is it implicit, or a simple matter of common practice, that the ITTF accepts the National Olympic Committees judgment from around the world as to whom is the National Governing Body of table tennis for their country and is, therefore, the only governing body the ITTF may accept as an ITTF member?

On its face, this is crazy.  The Olympics occurs once every four years.  In those four years, the ITTF organizes and promulgates an enormous number of activities completely unrelated to the Olympics.  From the operational perspective, this hegemonic influential power of the National Olympic Committees is nuts.    

As a practical matter, the Olympics is big money.  The IOC selects the ITTF as the international governing body of the sport.  As to matters related to table tennis in the Olympics, the IOC oversees, monitors, and provides direction to the ITTF.  It is a possibility that the extent of the influence by the IOC could stop there, thus, through delegation, permitting the ITTF to determine the National Governing Bodies in the respective countries.  This possibility is not realized because the Olympic funding the specific-sport national governing bodies receive is through the National Organizing Committees in each respective country.  The primary source of the funds provided to each National Organizing Committee is the International Olympic Committee.

In the U.S., not lost on close observers of this uncomfortable situation is the unsynchronized parallel phenomena of very poor USOC funding for the USATT and very high USOC influence over the operational aspects of the USATT.  We have this influence blasting out here again.

The USOC performance in the last major USOC intervention in USATT governing affairs was terrible, demonstrating very low competency in this function.  Nothing available supports an optimistic outcome in this iteration, just more slouching.

On a related note: I was very (and naively) impressed with the prior USATT administration's competency in the financial matters; this impression formed by the obviously large amount of money being spent on overseas competitions and various trips, an actuality only made possible by a corresponding increase in revenues to the USATT.  My naivete was founded on my lack of awareness that a not-for-profit organization could promulgate large budgetary deficits as a standard practice.  How this occurred is, to an non-participant outsider, inexplicable.  

This deficit spending at the extraordinary level that it occurred may well be the impetus of the USOC's recent attention.  That the USOC's purported oversight of USATT matters did not prevent this occurrence will likely not be emphasized.

Another distinct possibility motivating the USOC is the recent initiative concerning ICC's Rajul conflict.  Those scorned by the voting defeat may not have gone gentle into that good night.

Thanks.  


Edited by DonnOlsen - 12/04/2019 at 8:51am
Advances in a field are best achieved by constructs that fully reflect the phenomena of interest and are rooted in a theory that specifies their determinants, mediating processes, and its effects.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/04/2019 at 11:35am
Originally posted by jfolsen jfolsen wrote:

Unfortunately, the USOC gets to decide who the national governing body is. So you could start an amateur organization, but it would have no authority and the ITTF would (effectively) be unable to recognize it.
I don't think this is right.  USOC gets to decide who is going to the Olympics, and everything beyond that is up to negotiation.  What I'm not sure about is how ITTF chooses to recognize a representative organization when there are competing organizations in the same country.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/04/2019 at 12:08pm
Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

Originally posted by jfolsen jfolsen wrote:

Unfortunately, the USOC gets to decide who the national governing body is. So you could start an amateur organization, but it would have no authority and the ITTF would (effectively) be unable to recognize it.
I don't think this is right.  USOC gets to decide who is going to the Olympics, and everything beyond that is up to negotiation.  What I'm not sure about is how ITTF chooses to recognize a representative organization when there are competing organizations in the same country.
The ITTF would not dare to interfere here.  Whoever the IOC, and by extension USOC, says is the NGB will be the NGB.  The ITTF wants and needs Table Tennis to be part of the Olympics.  The Olympics is huge for table tennis.  It's the dream of all elite TT players.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/04/2019 at 12:55pm
Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:

Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

Originally posted by jfolsen jfolsen wrote:

Unfortunately, the USOC gets to decide who the national governing body is. So you could start an amateur organization, but it would have no authority and the ITTF would (effectively) be unable to recognize it.
I don't think this is right.  USOC gets to decide who is going to the Olympics, and everything beyond that is up to negotiation.  What I'm not sure about is how ITTF chooses to recognize a representative organization when there are competing organizations in the same country.
The ITTF would not dare to interfere here.  Whoever the IOC, and by extension USOC, says is the NGB will be the NGB.  The ITTF wants and needs Table Tennis to be part of the Olympics.  The Olympics is huge for table tennis.  It's the dream of all elite TT players.

Undoubtedly, you are correct.  

Not resolved is the decades-long dysfunctionality of the U.S. national table tennis leadership in some areas of its responsibility.  Always it has been true that the USTTA/USATT has performed well, overall, in administrative matters in general.  It has operated within acceptable levels the standard activities under its charge.  

Strength to the point of effectiveness in areas non-administrative remains absent.  The evidence to this point is found in the stagnation of certain metrics representing areas depicting the sport's growth in the country.

The USOC intervention never was prompted by the above stated deficiencies, but by grievances of mismanagement, suspected corruption, or incompetence.  The case at hand is likely included here.

Thanks.     
Advances in a field are best achieved by constructs that fully reflect the phenomena of interest and are rooted in a theory that specifies their determinants, mediating processes, and its effects.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/08/2019 at 2:07pm
Larry Hodges gives some details about this in his blog


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/08/2019 at 3:17pm
Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

The USOC intervention never was prompted by the above stated deficiencies, but by grievances of mismanagement, suspected corruption, or incompetence.  The case at hand is likely included here.

Why do i feel like we're going out of the frying pan and into the fire?  I've always had serious doubts about the management of USATT, but I see USOC (or USOPC) as making matters worse instead of better.

I'm wondering if we shouldn't let USOC take over USATT's role in relation to ITTF and handle all maters regarding high-performance players.  Then use the existing USATT administrator to handle amateur players.  There has always been this problem that USATT is conflicted over prioritizing the two aspects, and really, there is no reason that we need to have one organization handle both.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Twiddler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/08/2019 at 6:40pm
USATT Board of Directors were complacent and lacking oversight.
 Our chairman is from  swimming federation and the last one was a financial person. 
 I couldn't imagine going to another sport that I know little about and be the chairman of the board.
 This has ticked me off for years. Makes no sense and it has hurt our TT in many ways.
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