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Question to choppers

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stiltt View Drop Down
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    Posted: 12/12/2019 at 4:54pm

Facts:

-Past a certain level, the spin reversal of lp on blocks will not surprise the opponent much. 

-When chopping a loop away from the table, those pips add to the existing rotation.

-We see all choppers slicing the ball pretty hard on the fh with a smooth sponged rubber with which they can also fh loop: they can chop with a smooth rubber very well.

My question is: what is the advantage of having LP on the bh? why don't we see pure choppers with smooth rubbers on both sides? theoretically they would add more spin loop bh chopping with a smooth rubber compared to lp because the smooth topsheet would grab the ball more. 

If it is true, a possible answer is "enhanced control on the bh"; but past a certain level, those players can control about anything they want. Are they sticking to lp on the bh because they have a whole life with it behind them and they can't throw it away just like that? Have we ever seen people trying to develop a modern defending game from scratch with smooth on both sides?

Now if that's not true, what is happening at contact time to make loop chopping with lp send a ball back with more underspin than using a smooth rubber? assuming perfect technique.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chop4ever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/12/2019 at 11:11pm
There are SP and antispin choppers as well as inverted rubber (thinner sponge, Tackiness C). Hou Zinchao is currenty a SL winner in China by SP (Spectol).
LP is more popular due to it variation on spin and speed, which is somehow could stop opponent from crazily attacks.
I prefer SP or LP on BH, and inverted rubber on FH because of the diversity of spins and techniques. It is too simple if both sides are smooth rubbers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/12/2019 at 11:33pm
Not even close to be a chopper, but I've started incorporating some chopblocks into my game because of how scarily effective they can be. you can definitely do some tomahawk serve style chopblocks that almost directly wins you points... This is using inverted btw... 

Edited by blahness - 12/12/2019 at 11:39pm
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stiltt View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/12/2019 at 11:51pm
thank you for answering. so if they want more complicated, why don't they have also a bh loop with inverted by twiddling? is it because it's too hard? I don't think so.

"diversity" is key. so a logical evolution would see modern choppers introducing bh loop? 

The same way the chiquita overcame the "pushing receive" or the "receiving push" (whatever we call that when we cannot chiquita it), the bh chop away from the table should leave room to a surprise full arm bh killer loop with the smooth side, gauzy style; and vice versa.

I am not kidding people, I an announcing

THE RISE OF THE TWIDDLING CHOPPA!

I am naive: I do not see why it has not happened yet, so why? The footwork gets mangled maybe? and the coaches have not yet figured out a way to recover from CHOPPA! mode to regular topspin rallying? and vice versa? not worth it? better specialize? mmmhhh. It seems risks related to all those breaking points in the skeleton when momentum is broken in twiddling are higher close to the table but away? it's probably just the same speed request than chop to chop recovery, plus the decision time to switch;  easy to adapt? maybe.

Away from the table, there are still ways. All in my head, Gauzy and Calderano tell me chops here and there will break rhythm and the machine across the table, little is often enough, little hints of that choppa thing should inspire because it opens new ways out of trouble.




Edited by stiltt - 12/12/2019 at 11:57pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/13/2019 at 12:02am
Personally I will never try lp, I thouight about it. chopping with inverted on both sides? oh yes!

the culture of looping is boring sometimes and watching sato playing today was painful sometimes, I was wondering "why doesn't she twiddle and bh loop along the line there...NOBODY HOME!?"  

A player like sato who starts twiddling successfully for bh spinny loops might get scary.

Why did not that happen yet? not enough time to train for it? can't do it all? too hard?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote obesechopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/13/2019 at 1:38am
Hard to chop with inverted on the backhand. Hard to control etc. and the footwork must be very fast. It's far easier just to block at that stage. 

There are only so many hours for them to train... so, while a mega twiddling beast who could best any offensive player with either BH or FH loops in addition to world class chopping on both sides would be nice... it does not seem likely! But then the question would be, why chop at all? Just use your offense from either wing and hit winners, since those shots would be better than pure attackers anyway. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DreiZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/13/2019 at 5:20am
at my club there is an older player with inverted both sides but he chops mostly with his fh with very good control.

I prefer LP on bh for chopping, absorbs incoming spin and easier to control.

There is a belarussian player Evgueni Chtchetinine, that chops not* both sides inverted 


Edited by DreiZ - 12/13/2019 at 7:47am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kakapo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/13/2019 at 6:06am
Originally posted by DreiZ DreiZ wrote:

at my club there is an older player with inverted both sides but he chops mostly with his fh with very good control.

I prefer LP on bh for chopping, absorbs incoming spin and easier to control.

There is a belarussian player Evgueni Chtchetinine, that chops both sides inverted.
 
Chtchetinine has Always used curl P1R, 1mm sponge on his backhand and he twidlles a lot.
Otherwise, he would never have had the results he had, playing old school defence.
 
When his opponent does a dropshot or a non spin shot, he Always plays it back with his inverted rubbers (which allows playing either strong spin balls or non spin balls) otherwise, the shot would be too high.
He uses his LP rubber only against topspin or lateral spin balls.
 
Twiddling like him, not only when he serves but also in the game and only defensively demands a lot of training and mental adaptation, also a good sense of anticipation + of course, the common abilities all defender should have: fast legs….
Also, being able to twiddle when you receive missiles…..not everyone can do it….and twiddling when the match is full of stress...that's not obvious.
I prefer using half long pimples because they can do everything and they are not so predictable like the LP rubbers. Short pimples are very efficient regarding the spin variation and also the attacking possibilities but...you may have some difficulties to absorb the spin from the opponent, especially the heavy but slow loops.


Edited by kakapo - 12/13/2019 at 6:13am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DreiZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/13/2019 at 6:42am
Originally posted by kakapo kakapo wrote:

Originally posted by DreiZ DreiZ wrote:

at my club there is an older player with inverted both sides but he chops mostly with his fh with very good control.

I prefer LP on bh for chopping, absorbs incoming spin and easier to control.

There is a belarussian player Evgueni Chtchetinine, that chops not* both sides inverted.
 
Chtchetinine has Always used curl P1R, 1mm sponge on his backhand and he twidlles a lot.
Otherwise, he would never have had the results he had, playing old school defence.
 
When his opponent does a dropshot or a non spin shot, he Always plays it back with his inverted rubbers (which allows playing either strong spin balls or non spin balls) otherwise, the shot would be too high.
He uses his LP rubber only against topspin or lateral spin balls.
 
Twiddling like him, not only when he serves but also in the game and only defensively demands a lot of training and mental adaptation, also a good sense of anticipation + of course, the common abilities all defender should have: fast legs….
Also, being able to twiddle when you receive missiles…..not everyone can do it….and twiddling when the match is full of stress...that's not obvious.
I prefer using half long pimples because they can do everything and they are not so predictable like the LP rubbers. Short pimples are very efficient regarding the spin variation and also the attacking possibilities but...you may have some difficulties to absorb the spin from the opponent, especially the heavy but slow loops.

Wow I would have never thought he used lp but makes sense now from his older games.


Edited by DreiZ - 12/13/2019 at 7:48am
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