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    Posted: 01/11/2020 at 12:43pm
When and why did table tennis (and volleyball) switch from games to sets?  Did other sports also do this?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wturber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/11/2020 at 1:07pm
Originally posted by mts388 mts388 wrote:

When and why did table tennis (and volleyball) switch from games to sets?  Did other sports also do this?

I dunno.  I still use "games" and "matches".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mytoman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/11/2020 at 6:34pm
It has always been "games" in the rules. We say "Third game, Ito to serve, 0-0", or  "11-7,  game and match Zhang Jike with 3 games to 1, China wins the team match with 3 matches to 0".  All umpires will say game. However, many languages use "set". Players from Sweden or Germany will say "set". 

There is also a structural thing: It you call 11-7 a set, you can divide the set in serve games, even if it is "wrong".. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/11/2020 at 6:40pm
it didn't make any sense to me when they started using set,  in the last 10 years or so?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mytoman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/11/2020 at 7:41pm
Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

it didn't make any sense to me when they started using set,  in the last 10 years or so?

A swede could say "I struggeled in the first two sets, but then I improved and managed to win the game". It is just direct translation. I imagine that tt language get influenced from Sweden and Germany?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wturber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/11/2020 at 8:20pm
Interesting.  The 2019 ITTF rules refert to a "game" and a "match."  I thought it would be otherwise.

I may start correcting people's use of "set" now.  ;^)

2.11 A GAME 
2.11.1 A game shall be won by the player or pair first scoring 11 points unless both players or pairs score 10 points, when the game shall be won by the first player or pair subsequently gaining a lead of 2 points. 

2.12 A MATCH 
2.12.1 A match shall consist of the best of any odd number of games.


Edited by wturber - 01/11/2020 at 8:20pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fulanodetal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/11/2020 at 10:04pm
To me 'set' makes more sense than 'game'. It is closer to what they use in Tennis, no?

'Match' and 'Game' to me are interchangeable. From a Spanish speaking perspective it does not make sense that a 'set' should be called 'game'. It is a tad confusing. In spanish, 'game' and 'match' are synonyms.

But whatever, I have gotten used to it.

FdT


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfolsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/11/2020 at 10:09pm
Point, game, match. Where did this set thing come from?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TT newbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/11/2020 at 10:34pm
"Set" in table tennis is used only during team competiton. 
For example, when a chinese player plays against a japanese player in the third match of a team tournament, referee does not say the name of the players but China and Japan. So, he might says "11-7, game China. China leads by two games to one, and by two sets to zero."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote penholderxxx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2020 at 12:46am
 "Set" in table tennis is used only during team competiton. 
For example, when a chinese player plays against a japanese player in the third match of a team tournament, referee does not say the name of the players but China and Japan. So, he might says "11-7, game China. China leads by two games to one, and by two sets to zero." - TT newbie

 
Can you refer us to any specific clauses in the rules and regulations or links in any documents ? thks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TT newbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2020 at 1:20am
Originally posted by penholderxxx penholderxxx wrote:

 "Set" in table tennis is used only during team competiton. 
For example, when a chinese player plays against a japanese player in the third match of a team tournament, referee does not say the name of the players but China and Japan. So, he might says "11-7, game China. China leads by two games to one, and by two sets to zero." - TT newbie

 
Can you refer us to any specific clauses in the rules and regulations or links in any documents ? thks
Did I say it´s a rule?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote penholderxxx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2020 at 2:01am
" Did I say it´s a rule? " - TT newbie

sorry, but I did not say you said or indicate that what you said was or involved a rule. I merely asked if you could let me or forum members know if it is in a rule.

regardless, how do we interpret clause 18.1.6 in the ITTF handbook for match officials; 16th edition, July 2019. thks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TT newbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2020 at 10:06am
Originally posted by penholderxxx penholderxxx wrote:


sorry, but I did not say you said or indicate that what you said was or involved a rule. I merely asked if you could let me or forum members know if it is in a rule.
I don´t know if it is a rule. What I said is the word "set" is only heard in table tennis during team events.
At least I always see or hear "game" when a player makes 11 points.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mytoman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2020 at 4:16pm
Originally posted by TT newbie TT newbie wrote:

Originally posted by penholderxxx penholderxxx wrote:


sorry, but I did not say you said or indicate that what you said was or involved a rule. I merely asked if you could let me or forum members know if it is in a rule.
I don´t know if it is a rule. What I said is the word "set" is only heard in table tennis during team events.
At least I always see or hear "game" when a player makes 11 points.

Hello, come on!!
-A rally ends in a point (or a let), 
-You collect enough points (11 or more), to win a game
-You collect enough games (3, 5, 7..), to win a match
-If it is a team match, you collect matches to win the team match

Point, game, match is in the rules. 

"Set" is not in the rules, but is used is som languages. "Tredje sett" is third game in scandinavian languages. Then it is natural for some to keep the word set/sett when speaking TT-english. 

In the same way in many languages you don't separate between referee and umpire. In football you have referee, in tt umpire, in music adjudicator and so on. In scandinavian languages most of these are "dommer" translating into "judge"...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote penholderxxx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2020 at 8:03pm
 I don´t know if it is a rule. What I said is the word "set" is only heard in table tennis during team events.
At least I always see or hear "game" when a player makes 11 points. - TT newbie

ok, sorry for interruptions.Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mickd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2020 at 8:25pm
In Japan people usually use "set" and "match". It's probably a translation thing. Personally I find "set" and "match" more intuitive than "game" and "match". That said, I started playing table tennis in Japan.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/13/2020 at 3:43pm
yeah,  I guess it could be a language thing.  but if it is, the more knowledgeable people like commentators (?) should stop using set
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