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Where to find National version of T05?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/15/2020 at 6:50pm
Hi,

For what it is worth: in at least a few interviews some years ago, Timo Boll commented as to the unfairness of Chinese players using a rubber that you cannot buy (their Hurricane), yet anyone can buy the rubber that Timo Boll uses.

When coaching on the (then) ITTF Pro Tour, a few times I heard top European players comment on the "weirdness" "strangeness" of some of the shots from the Chinese.

Thanks.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/16/2020 at 12:08am
    SP rubbers is BOOBY TRAP.   
ALL the so called SP Rubbers (those non commercial) are explicitly prohibited by ITTF rules.

/Be happy/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpenman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/16/2020 at 2:44am
Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

Hi,

For what it is worth: in at least a few interviews some years ago, Timo Boll commented as to the unfairness of Chinese players using a rubber that you cannot buy (their Hurricane), yet anyone can buy the rubber that Timo Boll uses.

When coaching on the (then) ITTF Pro Tour, a few times I heard top European players comment on the "weirdness" "strangeness" of some of the shots from the Chinese.

Thanks.


Might be true, but RSM once said in an interview, that there's a difference between the commercial and the "pro" version of Tenergy, after somebody asked him. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/16/2020 at 3:40pm
Originally posted by jpenman jpenman wrote:

Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

Hi,

For what it is worth: in at least a few interviews some years ago, Timo Boll commented as to the unfairness of Chinese players using a rubber that you cannot buy (their Hurricane), yet anyone can buy the rubber that Timo Boll uses.

When coaching on the (then) ITTF Pro Tour, a few times I heard top European players comment on the "weirdness" "strangeness" of some of the shots from the Chinese.

Thanks.


Might be true, but RSM once said in an interview, that there's a difference between the commercial and the "pro" version of Tenergy, after somebody asked him. 

I was hoping to stay out of this conversation because it's all been argued ad nauseam before.  However, I want to reinforce Donn's earlier posts.

I have also asked Pros and International coaches before, and the various Japanese and European rubbers generally don't have special "pro" versions of their rubbers. I say generally because I can't be sure for all brands, but I know this applies to Butterfly.  As Donn notes, Pros can ask to have their rubber cut from different parts of the "sponge loaf".  Sponge is manufactured in blocks like a big loaf of bread, and the sponge characteristics are different near the ends of the loaf compared to the center.  I think Pros generally prefer cuts near the ends, which are harder.  So in that sense, a pro can ask to have a sheet with sponge cut from the ends, whereas the retail sheets we all buy have cuts of sponge that are random (and therefore will vary in hardness).

In addition, elite pros are supplied stacks of rubbers, so they can pick and choose which sheets they think they like best.

I also recall the interview with Timo where he complained that the CNT had access to special rubbers while he had to use retail (commonly available) rubbers.  He was quite upset (for him -- he seldom gets too upset) about it.

My guess is that the RSM sheet was something selected to his preference (where it was cut in the sponge loaf) and selected by him out of a set of rubbers.  The only problem with wanting to play with a Pro rubber is you have to have Pro-level strokes to really take advantage of it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/16/2020 at 4:44pm
Even if the average player can't take advantage of an hypothetical "national" rubber, they will want it just to take an obsession off their mind if there is the slightest chance it exists.

Now let's say a brand decides to go all open and releases an official "NATIONAL TEAM" version of any given rubber: I have no doubt somebody would have a cousin with great connections to have access to the "OLYMPIC" version of the "NATIONAL TEAM" version, with slightly harder sponge and grippier topsheet.

etc...

etc...

etc...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote icontek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2020 at 7:31pm
From the taobao link:

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/19/2020 at 12:16am
Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

Originally posted by jpenman jpenman wrote:

Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

Hi,

For what it is worth: in at least a few interviews some years ago, Timo Boll commented as to the unfairness of Chinese players using a rubber that you cannot buy (their Hurricane), yet anyone can buy the rubber that Timo Boll uses.

When coaching on the (then) ITTF Pro Tour, a few times I heard top European players comment on the "weirdness" "strangeness" of some of the shots from the Chinese.

Thanks.


Might be true, but RSM once said in an interview, that there's a difference between the commercial and the "pro" version of Tenergy, after somebody asked him. 

I was hoping to stay out of this conversation because it's all been argued ad nauseam before.  However, I want to reinforce Donn's earlier posts.

I have also asked Pros and International coaches before, and the various Japanese and European rubbers generally don't have special "pro" versions of their rubbers. I say generally because I can't be sure for all brands, but I know this applies to Butterfly.  As Donn notes, Pros can ask to have their rubber cut from different parts of the "sponge loaf".  Sponge is manufactured in blocks like a big loaf of bread, and the sponge characteristics are different near the ends of the loaf compared to the center.  I think Pros generally prefer cuts near the ends, which are harder.  So in that sense, a pro can ask to have a sheet with sponge cut from the ends, whereas the retail sheets we all buy have cuts of sponge that are random (and therefore will vary in hardness).

In addition, elite pros are supplied stacks of rubbers, so they can pick and choose which sheets they think they like best.

I also recall the interview with Timo where he complained that the CNT had access to special rubbers while he had to use retail (commonly available) rubbers.  He was quite upset (for him -- he seldom gets too upset) about it.

My guess is that the RSM sheet was something selected to his preference (where it was cut in the sponge loaf) and selected by him out of a set of rubbers.  The only problem with wanting to play with a Pro rubber is you have to have Pro-level strokes to really take advantage of it.

in another interview samsonov boll and other bty played said they use way harder tenergies and heavier I dont think a sheet from the other big sheet is gonna be harder
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/19/2020 at 1:36am
Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

in another interview samsonov boll and other bty played said they use way harder tenergies and heavier I dont think a sheet from the other big sheet is gonna be harder
I'm not quite sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me.  Getting your sponge from the ends of loafs is quite a bit harder (and heavier) than in the middle of the loaf.  This is what the pros seek.  But it's still the same materials as the retail rubbers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/19/2020 at 3:06pm
Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

[QUOTE=mykonos96]
in another interview samsonov boll and other bty played said they use way harder tenergies and heavier I dont think a sheet from the other big sheet is gonna be harder
I'm not quite sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me.  Getting your sponge from the ends of loafs is quite a bit harder (and heavier) than in the middle of the loaf.  This is what the pros seek.  But it's still the same materials as the retail rubbers.
[/QUOTE

I think pros are not allowed to say they use special versions , I tried some long pips from national team korean chopper and its diffrent very diffrent from the comercial version 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/19/2020 at 3:29pm
Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

in another interview samsonov boll and other bty played said they use way harder tenergies and heavier I dont think a sheet from the other big sheet is gonna be harder
I'm not quite sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me.  Getting your sponge from the ends of loafs is quite a bit harder (and heavier) than in the middle of the loaf.  This is what the pros seek.  But it's still the same materials as the retail rubbers.

I think pros are not allowed to say they use special versions , I tried some long pips from national team korean chopper and its diffrent very diffrent from the comercial version 
"Not allowed" is too strong of phrasing.  If someone is sponsored to promote a particular product (this applies to many types of products), they are generally prohibited from promoting competing brands.  Most such contracts do not have requirements about whether to admit that pros use "special versions" of retail products.  In fact, in sports is often the case that professionals will admit to having their own version and the public understands that that's because those people are professionals.  In the case of table tennis, a sponsored professional might be hesitant to say something too blatant that could upset their sponsor, when talking about their own products, but that doesn't stop them from talking about product differences in general terms.  

At any rate, for the interview that Timo gave he's not going to lie and explicitly claim that his rubber is the more or less retail rubber if that's not true.  There wouldn't be any point to it; if he's got custom "pro" rubber, why bother to complain about the CNT's custom rubbers?  At most, he should just say nothing.  The only reason to complain is because he does just use retail rubber (albeit, cut from the loaf ends).

By the way, I did think of a way to get your own pro version of Tenergy or Dignics.  Contact Butterfly and ask to buy every sheet of rubber made from one sponge loaf.  You can sell off or give away the sheets cut from the middle of the loaf and then keep only those sheets from the loaf ends.  Those will be the pro sheets.  Alternatively, you could just buy thousands of sheets of rubber, figuring that randomly, some of those sheets will be from loaf-ends.

I don't know about the long pips.  What brand was it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/19/2020 at 4:10pm
Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

in another interview samsonov boll and other bty played said they use way harder tenergies and heavier I dont think a sheet from the other big sheet is gonna be harder
I'm not quite sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me.  Getting your sponge from the ends of loafs is quite a bit harder (and heavier) than in the middle of the loaf.  This is what the pros seek.  But it's still the same materials as the retail rubbers.

I think pros are not allowed to say they use special versions , I tried some long pips from national team korean chopper and its diffrent very diffrent from the comercial version 
"Not allowed" is too strong of phrasing.  If someone is sponsored to promote a particular product (this applies to many types of products), they are generally prohibited from promoting competing brands.  Most such contracts do not have requirements about whether to admit that pros use "special versions" of retail products.  In fact, in sports is often the case that professionals will admit to having their own version and the public understands that that's because those people are professionals.  In the case of table tennis, a sponsored professional might be hesitant to say something too blatant that could upset their sponsor, when talking about their own products, but that doesn't stop them from talking about product differences in general terms.  

At any rate, for the interview that Timo gave he's not going to lie and explicitly claim that his rubber is the more or less retail rubber if that's not true.  There wouldn't be any point to it; if he's got custom "pro" rubber, why bother to complain about the CNT's custom rubbers?  At most, he should just say nothing.  The only reason to complain is because he does just use retail rubber (albeit, cut from the loaf ends).

By the way, I did think of a way to get your own pro version of Tenergy or Dignics.  Contact Butterfly and ask to buy every sheet of rubber made from one sponge loaf.  You can sell off or give away the sheets cut from the middle of the loaf and then keep only those sheets from the loaf ends.  Those will be the pro sheets.  Alternatively, you could just buy thousands of sheets of rubber, figuring that randomly, some of those sheets will be from loaf-ends.

I don't know about the long pips.  What brand was it?

nittaku screw, I tried the pro version and it was very disturbing despite it was kinda new and when I got the comercial version it was very dull 
same was with peter karlsson clipper is faster feels way more solid
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/19/2020 at 5:07pm
Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

nittaku screw, I tried the pro version and it was very disturbing despite it was kinda new and when I got the comercial version it was very dull 
same was with peter karlsson clipper is faster feels way more solid
I'm not sure about long pips, but it's hard to see how they could make a "pro version" of a long pip rubber without labeling it as something else.  I think the sponge material is less important because it usually quite thin (but a good long pips expert could correct me on this).  The pips shape/size is fixed; that can't be changed without getting approval from ITTF for a new rubber.  And the top sheet material is unlikely to be changed.  Possibly the pro sheet was treated (which is illegal, but might be seen the same as boosting).  Or possibly the pro tried several sheets to find one he liked and there is just that much variance in the sheets.

Karlsson Clipper is a blade, and that's a whole different question.  It's well known that some pros will use different blades with a fake handle to make the blade look like their sponsored blade.  Or pros can get customer blades, although usually the manufacturers will admit that (and, in fact, even club players can order custom blades).  Even within stock retail blades, I've watched while pros went through selecting a "good blade", and they are very good a telling the difference between what look to be identical blades.  I've seen a pro pick one blade out of ten, stating that the other nine are garbage.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/19/2020 at 9:01pm
I think you can buy "national" tenergy at the same place they sell genuine unicorns.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snakefish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/19/2020 at 9:08pm

I think pros are not allowed to say they use special versions , I tried some long pips from national team korean chopper and its diffrent very diffrent from the comercial version 
 
I don't know about the long pips.  What brand was it?

nittaku screw, I tried the pro version and it was very disturbing despite it was kinda new and when I got the comercial version it was very dull 
same was with peter karlsson clipper is faster feels way more solid
[/QUOTE]


Sherlock says the pro version of the long pips was fresher than the commercial version - in a package for who knows how long - which is more "aged".   Elementary dear Watson
  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnnyChop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/19/2020 at 11:08pm
Of course the pros play with different rubbers then what is availeble commercially. But I would think pros play with custom rubbers made to thier specification and not some general national versions. There is a difference. There is no such thing as the national version that fits every pro... 

I think this makes getting thier rubbers useless and a gigantic waste of money.
Plus us and the pro does not play under the same situation... The Chinese national team probably have an unlimited supply of rubbers boosted to the max that they can use a fresh one every game if they like. And very likely the rubbers are customised without longevity in mind... Case and point would be mxp, I would really use mxp if performance didn't deteriot so fast, but to Samsonov, that is not an concern as he probably have a limitless supply from tibhar. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote smackman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/19/2020 at 11:34pm
Originally posted by mischasln mischasln wrote:

I use national T05s and they have improved my shitty technique to another level. For some unknown reasons, my footwork has also improved! If my coach gets me commercial T05s, they go straight into the trash can. 

We have the secret now, National Tenergy will improve your technique and footwork

I'm going to wait for the International Tenergy, so I can pick up chicks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2020 at 12:57am
Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

nittaku screw, I tried the pro version and it was very disturbing despite it was kinda new and when I got the comercial version it was very dull 
same was with peter karlsson clipper is faster feels way more solid
I'm not sure about long pips, but it's hard to see how they could make a "pro version" of a long pip rubber without labeling it as something else.  I think the sponge material is less important because it usually quite thin (but a good long pips expert could correct me on this).  The pips shape/size is fixed; that can't be changed without getting approval from ITTF for a new rubber.  And the top sheet material is unlikely to be changed.  Possibly the pro sheet was treated (which is illegal, but might be seen the same as boosting).  Or possibly the pro tried several sheets to find one he liked and there is just that much variance in the sheets.

Karlsson Clipper is a blade, and that's a whole different question.  It's well known that some pros will use different blades with a fake handle to make the blade look like their sponsored blade.  Or pros can get customer blades, although usually the manufacturers will admit that (and, in fact, even club players can order custom blades).  Even within stock retail blades, I've watched while pros went through selecting a "good blade", and they are very good a telling the difference between what look to be identical blades.  I've seen a pro pick one blade out of ten, stating that the other nine are garbage.

shape of pips under topsheet in nat H3 is diffrent,they re shorter and wider
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2020 at 1:17am
Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:


shape of pips under topsheet in nat H3 is diffrent,they re shorter and wider
I'm skeptical of this.  Or, more precisely, if they have different pips, then it's not H3 at all.  When rubbers are submitted to ITTF the pips configuration is specified.  If you change that configuration then you have to submit it as a different rubber.  So all versions of H3 have to have the same pips structure, and if you change the pips, then it's technically a different rubber.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2020 at 10:12am
Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:


shape of pips under topsheet in nat H3 is diffrent,they re shorter and wider
I'm skeptical of this.  Or, more precisely, if they have different pips, then it's not H3 at all.  When rubbers are submitted to ITTF the pips configuration is specified.  If you change that configuration then you have to submit it as a different rubber.  So all versions of H3 have to have the same pips structure, and if you change the pips, then it's technically a different rubber.

This.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2020 at 1:31pm
Originally posted by smackman smackman wrote:

Originally posted by mischasln mischasln wrote:

I use national T05s and they have improved my shitty technique to another level. For some unknown reasons, my footwork has also improved! If my coach gets me commercial T05s, they go straight into the trash can. 

We have the secret now, National Tenergy will improve your technique and footwork

I'm going to wait for the International Tenergy, so I can pick up chicks
sorry to disappoint, but no amt of ability in TT will help you pick up chicks (not including players) in NA
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2020 at 3:22pm
Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:


shape of pips under topsheet in nat H3 is diffrent,they re shorter and wider
I'm skeptical of this.  Or, more precisely, if they have different pips, then it's not H3 at all.  When rubbers are submitted to ITTF the pips configuration is specified.  If you change that configuration then you have to submit it as a different rubber.  So all versions of H3 have to have the same pips structure, and if you change the pips, then it's technically a different rubber.

I have a pic taken from a rusian site I will try to post but a player that have a real H3 from warming area in a wttc told me that the pics looks diffrent under the topsheet and the throw angle of nat H3 is very very low

I dont find hard to believe that rubbers are structurally diffrent for pros given the fact that ittf has done many shady things in the past. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nv42 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2020 at 4:19pm
I have tried a legit h3 nat which a friend got from China during his visit. Not sure abt it having a different pip structure, but the topsheer is definitely different compared to the regular h3, it feels more supple(less plasticky), also, its a bit less spin sensitive too and overall, it  has a different feel to it even when you just run your finger over it.

 Apart from that , without boost h3 nat is basically just a slow control rubber, and yes ,its throw is quite a bit lower compared to reg h3. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2020 at 5:41pm
Originally posted by nv42 nv42 wrote:

I have tried a legit h3 nat which a friend got from China during his visit. Not sure abt it having a different pip structure, but the topsheer is definitely different compared to the regular h3, it feels more supple(less plasticky), also, its a bit less spin sensitive too and overall, it  has a different feel to it even when you just run your finger over it.

 Apart from that , without boost h3 nat is basically just a slow control rubber, and yes ,its throw is quite a bit lower compared to reg h3. 

yep.and it has a diffrent smell
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpenman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/21/2020 at 1:37am
I don't want to destroy the atmosphere or so, but let's stay at the main topic. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpenman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/18/2020 at 11:02am
Originally posted by jpenman jpenman wrote:

I don't want to destroy the atmosphere or so, but let's stay at the main topic. 

Worked quite well...LOL
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