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Baal ![]() Forum Moderator ![]() Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14053 |
![]() Posted: 07/30/2020 at 1:45pm |
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It is time to lock this thread. Each of us will play table tennis again when we choose to assuming you find a place to play. You can all make your own choices. Herman Cain made his. At this point I think the main points are sufficiently widely disseminated that people have access to the information they need -- and of course the misinformation they choose to trust, quite a lot of which manages to find its way onto these threads. There will be no future threads on Covid-19. If someone wants to start a thread about masks they have found that are useful for playing sports, that is ok. I will carefully moderate it. The rule will be that postings will be limited to the usefulness of the mask for playing TT. People who don't believe that masks can protect you should stay away from any such thread that might appear in the future. I'm not going to start one.
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Baal ![]() Forum Moderator ![]() Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14053 |
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Read the NYT article. There are plenty of citations. I'm through with you.
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NextLevel ![]() Forum Moderator ![]() ![]() Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 13360 |
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I get that. What is the best scientific study you have supporting your position?
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Mazunov FH: TBD (MX-S, C1) BH: C1 Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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ejprinz ![]() Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 01/01/2020 Location: Austin, Texas Status: Offline Points: 62 |
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I think at this point it is irresponsible to not recommend mask use unless the number of Covid-19 cases is very low (around 200/day in the Netherlands). Germany mandated mask use and social distancing and it worked. Based on expert opinions (e.g. the Korean and German medical experts) masks help.
If I had some comorbidities and lived in the Netherlands, I would walk around in a gas mask just to make a point.
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Yinhe [Pro 5W, Sun FH, Uranus Pro BH]
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NextLevel ![]() Forum Moderator ![]() ![]() Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 13360 |
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What is the best study/trial advocating mask use that you can find? Why would the Dutch government do this if it was a closed case? |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Mazunov FH: TBD (MX-S, C1) BH: C1 Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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cole_ely ![]() Premier Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 03/16/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6535 |
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My favorite part of the article was when they discuss what size of droplet is considered aerosolized and the fact that there is no real cut off point. Wow, Herman Cain jist passed from corona
Edited by cole_ely - 07/30/2020 at 10:45am |
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W1 St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b
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DonnOlsen ![]() Gold Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 11/15/2008 Location: Maryland, USA Status: Offline Points: 1091 |
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Hi,
Epidemiologists goal is to stop the spread, and they're not really concerned about the effects. The above statement is very true among the most visible U.S. epidemiologists trotted out on major media outlets. The above statement is very much not true among many of the leading epidemiologist around the world. Their position is far, far more holistic, expressing deep concern for both economic and social elements of enormous importance. This is very evident in the different approaches being used in different countries. They, too, are being guided by science, except it is a science of much greater sophistication than the crudeness within the U.S. The callousness of the Fauci attitude, brushing off as not germane to his responsibility and participation, is a cruelty of monumental proportions. I do not exaggerate. Among the NIH, Fauci, the FDA, and the CDC, we are being extremely poorly served and advised. Couple that with the actions of the U.S. Congress and you have existing and future suffering and death, in the totality of this experience, that holds in rivalry with other historic tragedies. Thanks.
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Optimal table tennis body fat percentages:
Men 8 - 15% Women 16 - 22% |
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Baal ![]() Forum Moderator ![]() Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14053 |
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This is a really great article on masks and aerosols.
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NextLevel ![]() Forum Moderator ![]() ![]() Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 13360 |
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Your link didn't work. |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Mazunov FH: TBD (MX-S, C1) BH: C1 Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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cole_ely ![]() Premier Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 03/16/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6535 |
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https://www.msn.com/en-us/finance/markets/almost-30-million-in-us-didn-e2-80-99t-have-enough-to-eat-last-week/ar-BB17ldBN
This is an article from Bloomberg saying that the shutdown has increased hunger. I've read an article that I suppose I could go back and look for that summarized the effect of the shutdowns. They looked at a lot of factors including a huge drop in charitable giving. They estimated amongst all the factors that for every life lost by the virus we have lost 29 lives because of shutting down. I seriously doubt that's accurate, but there's a lot to consider. If you're a hammer you see every problem as a nail. Epidemiologists goal is to stop the spread, and they're not really concerned about the effects. That's for somebody else to consider. Dr. Fauci has said as much many times. Steve mnuchin's job is to worry about the economy. Somebody has to balance the two. The short-term solution seems to be printing money. That's all fine and good to a certain point, but once people don't trust the dollar or America's bonds anymore they'll expect a higher return and then we're in really big trouble. If we issue bonds somebody will have to pay them back probably our kids eventually. If we just print money then inflation is about to eat our lunch when the economy does get going again. That's the real world.
Edited by cole_ely - 07/30/2020 at 9:43am |
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W1 St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b
Please let me know if I can be of assistance. |
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NextLevel ![]() Forum Moderator ![]() ![]() Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 13360 |
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Maybe taking it seriously can only be done by frightening people into submission. We will see whether Texas and other hot states materially affect this trend. |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Mazunov FH: TBD (MX-S, C1) BH: C1 Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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Baal ![]() Forum Moderator ![]() Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14053 |
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My colleagues say things have been on a razor edge but trending slightly better, depending on what you look at. The key is to look at multiple metrics. New Covid-19 hospitalizations has steadily trended down this week. Depends a little on which hospital you look at and it is requiring a lot of coordinating to send patients from hospital A to hospital B. BUT, I have to point out that Houston is incredibly dense hospital infrastructure per capita. There are also refrigerator trucks at several places to store bodies. A big issue has been testing and getting results back quickly. Hospital systems have their own testing capabilities for patients who are present at the hospitals. Getting reagents makes my friend who runs the clinical lab at one of the hospitals really nervous. But at other testing centers, getting results back takes so long it is pretty much useless for contact tracing. The situation is much worse some other parts of Texas. In the Rio Grande Valley it seems that the situation is basically like New York. The hospital infrastructure there is not like here. Clearly I don't think it is possible to make any conclusion by comparing total number of cases in July in Texas compared to March in NYC based on tests. HOWEVER there are many other types of data that do portray the situation more realistically. This week the number of tests that have been coming out POSITIVE here is above 19%, and much higher for some subsets of the population (for example Hispanic people, where it approaches 40%). Fortunately this this is down from 26% earlier this month. Even the governor wants to see it below 10% (most infectious disease specialists would say lower than that). The virus is still racing through the city, but maybe is slowing a little. There is also the fact the percentage of ICU units in Houston and Texas in general currently occupied by Covid-19 patients is still very high, but for now, not exceeding capacity. Regarding new hospitalizations at Texas Medical Center hospitals, yesterday 198 people were admitted with Covid-19, down from an average of 250 or so around July 4. That is a genuine trend. The number of Covid-19 patients in ICUs in at the Texas Medical Center is at an all-time peak. That is a lagging indicator, as are deaths. Some people stay critically ill for a long time before getting better or dying. But note that this is one of the key statistics for measuring how Covid-19 affects a hospital system. Covid-19 is right now using 6-times as many total hospital resources as it did in the last week of May. Another point is that elective surgeries are not allowed here, which is a huge financial problem for hospitals. Finally, Texas is fairly steady at ~170 deaths/day. So there is kind of a summary. Anyone who is suggesting or hinting that we ought not to be taking this seriously is an idiot.
Edited by Baal - 07/29/2020 at 9:17pm |
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NextLevel ![]() Forum Moderator ![]() ![]() Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 13360 |
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Yes, they sometimes report deaths from the past and reclassify them or say they were missing and they are now data. The media unfortunately doesn't highlight this since they are either ignorant or not interested in showing a true trend. I leave you to decide which. A couple of engineers and analysts I follow on Twitter/Youtube analyze the data and they argue that if we we were testing in NY the same way they were testing in TX and FL, the case count have been much higher than anything we are seeing in TX and FL. This is why I think it is worth waiting a few years to look back on some of this - right now, any skepticism about how the virus is being portrayed is associated with support for Trump.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Mazunov FH: TBD (MX-S, C1) BH: C1 Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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cole_ely ![]() Premier Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 03/16/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6535 |
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It's hard to read the Houston data because all of Texas shows this huge Spike in one day of like six hundred and some. Apparently they changed the method of data collection to using death certificates and entered a bunch at once?
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W1 St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b
Please let me know if I can be of assistance. |
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NextLevel ![]() Forum Moderator ![]() ![]() Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 13360 |
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So Baal, has Houston turned out as badly as you expected, or are you still waiting for it to turn into NY?
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Mazunov FH: TBD (MX-S, C1) BH: C1 Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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ejprinz ![]() Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 01/01/2020 Location: Austin, Texas Status: Offline Points: 62 |
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I uploaded a video on how to play table tennis in a safe(r) way compared to not wearing a face mask. I've been playing since June 1st, 2020, 2-3x/week, 3 hours at a time, ~70% intensity with the face mask. I loose about 6lbs in 3 hours (mostly water of course).
Given that many people wear rather flimsy masks or no masks I think there is a need to protect myself in addition to others. See: https://youtu.be/K1mQJZhI108 I use the same mask when I go grocery shopping or go anywhere else.
Edited by ejprinz - 07/28/2020 at 9:19pm |
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Yinhe [Pro 5W, Sun FH, Uranus Pro BH]
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Egghead ![]() Premier Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 09/05/2009 Location: N.A. Status: Offline Points: 4064 |
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First of all , there was no doubt that one of teammembers caught the virus outside of the team building. The problem is that MLB has a stringent guidelines for the clubhouse, such as wearing masks, maintaining social distance. spacing out equipment in the workout room, restricting how many players can work out at the same time, and making sure each player has his own equipments. Then, they still have an outbreak. The funny thing is that MLB knows they will have issues. Teams have 60-players pool now, but the teams don't want to play againt teams with outbreak now
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Aurora ST: Rhyzm / Talent OX
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Egghead ![]() Premier Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 09/05/2009 Location: N.A. Status: Offline Points: 4064 |
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haha, unlike MLS, NHL and NBA, MLB and NFL are playing seasonal games. At first, MLB wants to do the hub format, but the MLBPA says no. In fact, if bubble works for seasonal games, NFL will be the first onr to jump in. Now, every eye will watch how NFL unfold their season.
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Aurora ST: Rhyzm / Talent OX
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Baal ![]() Forum Moderator ![]() Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14053 |
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I think the NBA model is the best but I still predict at some point the bubble will be penetrated. I hope I'm wrong.
As for MLB, I also doubt the virus spreads on the field. But teams share locker rooms, have meetings together, etc. plus they are traveling. College football teams are seeing lots of positive tests. Kids being kids.
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Egghead ![]() Premier Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 09/05/2009 Location: N.A. Status: Offline Points: 4064 |
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cool, I though they would only have airline econ class' food when they were not at team activities
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Aurora ST: Rhyzm / Talent OX
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qpskfec ![]() Super Member ![]() Joined: 07/28/2011 Status: Offline Points: 468 |
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When NBA players first entered the bubble, they had to stay in their rooms for a few days and had food delivered, only a few complained.
After testing negative every day for several days, they are allowed to use the resort facilities, including high end places to eat. Entire luxury hotels are running at very low occupancy with no non NBA guests. They are eating just fine. |
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Egghead ![]() Premier Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 09/05/2009 Location: N.A. Status: Offline Points: 4064 |
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150M did not "go a long way" now. Both MLS and NBA players' meals are airline econ class' food quality, and WNBA players' meals are soup Kutchen food quality. So, it is understandable that NBA players complain about the food
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Aurora ST: Rhyzm / Talent OX
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heavyspin ![]() Gold Member ![]() Joined: 08/16/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1380 |
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I heard a baseball analyst suggest that they should rethink whether players should be allowed to fist bump and such. I can't say how these players got infected, but I'd bet it was due to something off the field rather than on the field.
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A masseuse practicing social distancing rubs me the wrong way.
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Baal ![]() Forum Moderator ![]() Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14053 |
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And so far the bubble seems to be working since nobody has tested positive since July 13.
So far. For our sport just keep in mind that you don't know if your club mates are effectively living in a bubble but if you see someone at a club playing without one you'd best assume they are not particularly cautious about how they approach living in a pandemic.
Edited by Baal - 07/28/2020 at 8:03am |
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cole_ely ![]() Premier Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 03/16/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6535 |
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And they still complain about the food
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W1 St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b
Please let me know if I can be of assistance. |
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qpskfec ![]() Super Member ![]() Joined: 07/28/2011 Status: Offline Points: 468 |
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NBA, MLS, and WNBA are all playing in their own bubbles in Florida.
Before play resumed, 2 MLS teams dropped out due to covid. Since then, MLS has been playing for about a month now without incident. They are in the playoffs now, so as losing teams exit the bubble, the number of people left goes down. They look likely to complete their tourney in 2 weeks. If MLS can get to the end, it will be a positive sign for the NBA. The NBA is essentially doing the same thing as MLS, but doing it at a higher level, as the NBA is spending $150 million on their bubble. There has been no outbreak in the NBA bubble so far. Edited by qpskfec - 07/28/2020 at 12:59am |
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Egghead ![]() Premier Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 09/05/2009 Location: N.A. Status: Offline Points: 4064 |
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ya, that is exactly what I mean. He needs to serve 10-day quarantine and be retested before joining the team. With this level of caution measurement, we still have an outbreak. What should regular folks do?
Edited by Egghead - 07/29/2020 at 1:30pm |
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Aurora ST: Rhyzm / Talent OX
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cole_ely ![]() Premier Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 03/16/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6535 |
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Supposedly Lou Williams left the bubble for an excused reason, but was seen at a strip club. And he's one of the older players. Most of the NBA players or a lot of them are barely 20, and we know that age group isn't the best for distancing and such. So I wouldn't be surprised if you're right although I hope that you're not.
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W1 St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b
Please let me know if I can be of assistance. |
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Baal ![]() Forum Moderator ![]() Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14053 |
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I stand by my NBA prediction.
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Egghead ![]() Premier Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 09/05/2009 Location: N.A. Status: Offline Points: 4064 |
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I highly doubt that NBA will have a signifcant outbreak. Last time I checked; NBA would play in a bubble environment. So, if one team gets it, all team will likely to get it too. And, it means there will be a big problem. How can a person inside a "coronvirus-free" zone with all check points get infected
![]() Edited by Egghead - 07/27/2020 at 10:33pm |
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Aurora ST: Rhyzm / Talent OX
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